[29724] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 968 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Oct 23 06:09:46 2007
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 23 Oct 2007 Volume: 11 Number: 968
Today's topics:
Re: cgi_bin <cwilbur@chromatico.net>
Re: cgi_bin <abigail@abigail.be>
Re: cgi_bin <nick@maproom.co.uk>
Re: control loop for contraction <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: control loop for contraction <joe@inwap.com>
Re: generating html form on the fly <rkb@i.frys.com>
Re: Millionaire Dating Site for Quality Dating. (Dick Adams)
Re: Millionaire Dating Site for Quality Dating. <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
new CPAN modules on Tue Oct 23 2007 (Randal Schwartz)
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: Unix BG and Perl/TK <joe@inwap.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 Oct 2007 01:28:39 -0400
From: Charlton Wilbur <cwilbur@chromatico.net>
Subject: Re: cgi_bin
Message-Id: <87tzoie6wo.fsf@mithril.chromatico.net>
>>>>> "GH" == Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> writes:
GH> Even if the question was not really a Perl question, there is
GH> an obvious Perl connection that anybody can see who wants to
GH> see it. You don't want to see it - not much I can do about
GH> that.
Hardly - I see the alleged connection, but I think it's far too
tenuous to justify the post.
I mean, I use Perl utilities to keep track of some things related to
role-playing games. Since rec.games.frp.moderated is dead, that means
I can post RPG-related questions here, right?
And I'm thinking someday of writing some software to help with
knitting patterns, and I might use Perl. Since there's no newsgroup
dedicated to knitting, and there are purl stitches involved, that
means I can post knitting questions here, right?
Both of those have about as solid a connection to Perl as the OP's
question. Why is asking his question here defensible, while asking
those is not?
Charlton
--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilbur@chromatico.net
------------------------------
Date: 23 Oct 2007 06:30:04 GMT
From: Abigail <abigail@abigail.be>
Subject: Re: cgi_bin
Message-Id: <slrnfhr57c.ds1.abigail@alexandra.abigail.be>
_
Petr Vileta (stoupa@practisoft.cz) wrote on VCLXVI September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:ffjkvq$1f9p$2@ns.felk.cvut.cz>:
^^ Charlton Wilbur wrote:
^^ >>>>>> "GH" == Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> writes:
^^ >
^^ > If that's the case, I'd love to ask some questions about roleplaying
^^ > games here (as rec.games.frp.moderated is nonfunctional) and knitting
^^ > (as I can't find a knitting-specific newsgroup). By your logic, both
^^ > of those should be perfectly fine, no?
^^ >
^^ If the game is written in Perl, then here is a good place I think :-)
Wrong. With your logic, *NO* question should be asked in comp.lang.perl.*
at all. Since perl is written in C, we ought to ask our questions in
comp.lang.c.
Abigail
--
$" = "/"; split $, => eval join "+" => 1 .. 7;
*{"@_"} = sub {foreach (sort keys %_) {print "$_ $_{$_} "}};
%{"@_"} = %_ = (Just => another => Perl => Hacker); &{%{%_}};
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:32:00 +0100
From: Nick Wedd <nick@maproom.co.uk>
Subject: Re: cgi_bin
Message-Id: <yg8mz1IQ+bHHFAb1@maproom.demon.co.uk>
In message <slrnfhqi60.mkf.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>, Tad McClellan
<tadmc@seesig.invalid> writes
>Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> wrote:
>> Abigail wrote:
>>> Gunnar Hjalmarsson (noreply@gunnar.cc) wrote on VCLXIV September MCMXCIII
>>> in <URL:news:5o1tnrFkpgh4U1@mid.individual.net>:
>>> &&
>>> && I'd say that the lack of a more appropriate Usenet group _does_ justify
>>> && him asking it here.
>
>
>But he does not have a question about the Perl programming language,
>which is the topic of this newsgroup.
>
>Defending off-topic posting is a futile postion to take...
>
>
>> Unfortunately this discussion is not about linguistic semantics.
>
>
>And neither is it about Perl.
>
>It is about web server configuration.
>
>If the OP chose to use Python instead, the answer to his
>question would be *exactly the same*.
>
>The answer is independant of programming language, hence cannot
>be on topic in a newsgroup about a particular programming language.
I didn't know that when I posted. I thought that the Perl interpreter
might, on some servers, treat a cgi_bin (or cgi-bin) directory in some
special way.
And I know almost nothing about configuring web servers. If I had asked
on a newsgroup about web server configuration, I think I would have been
less likely to get a helpful answer than I was here.
Nick
>> It's
>> actually caused by some regulars' disinterest in CGI and in giving those
>> who want to use Perl for CGI apps a helping hand with the CGI side of
>> it.
>
>
>I'm one of the "other" regulars then, as I don't mind helping with
>a CGI application written in Perl.
>
>What I do mind is off-topic posts whose answer is unchanged
>when you substitute "Python" or "PHP" for "Perl".
>
>
>> However, if a newbie would ask for my advice on which language is best
>> to learn for web stuff, I think I would answer PHP.
>
>
>And that would be the right answer.
>
>PHP was created specifically for "web stuff", so it should
>be expected to be good at web stuff.
>
>
>> Not because I
>> personally have a firm opinion on which language is best suited for the
>> area, but because I imagine that there is no similar 'anti-web attitude'
>> in the groups and forums that deal with PHP.
>
>
>When you find a thread that serves as an example of what you're
>speaking of, point it out.
>
>This thread is clearly not such an example, as his question has
>no relationship to the Perl programming language.
>
>
--
Nick Wedd nick@maproom.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2007 22:55:13 -0800
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: control loop for contraction
Message-Id: <Ss2dnaqKd7gw44DanZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com>
no takers?
in pseudocode it's :
#define m s.t.
#m is a suitable choice for the algorithm
#m must be between 6.5 and 8
#algorithm is death by guesses
# good guess's won't take more than 8
#start value of n im m
n=m
#implementation
n = -1
counter = ++ counter;
while (condition)
{
n=n-1
compare (lower,upper)
if abs (comparison < 1 **n
break;
else take a freaking guess
}
}
printf counter in fortran, which binds C, but printf doesn't
#work because it's variadic
return 0 if C asks
return EXIT_SUCCESS if anyone hits.
--
wade ward
Westates Companies
1108 W. South Jordan pkwy
435 -838-7760
President
wade@zaxfuuq.net
"Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:S96dnSemQ4Uj3YDanZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> I would like to use a control loop to achieve the maximum width on the
> following contraction:
>
> I'm trying to calculate an x s.t. 10 = (2**x )*1600. bank4.pl has x at
> 6.5, which is too low:
>
> # bank4.pl
> use strict;
> use warnings;
>
> # a cup is a twelfth of a quart
> my $number1 = 42;
> my $no2 = 2.71;
>
> print STDOUT "no 1 is $number1\n";
> print STDOUT "no 2 is $no2\n";
>
> #US cup = 236.588238 cc
> #1 centimeters = 0.393700787 inches
>
> my $cups_to_cc = 236.588238;
>
> my $cent_to_inch = 0.393700787;
> # line 16 Semicolon seems to be missing at sugar3.pl line 16.
> print STDOUT "no 3 is $cups_to_cc\n";
> print STDOUT "no 4 is $cent_to_inch\n";
>
> my $no5 = 3;
> my $no6 = 4**$no5;
>
> print STDOUT "no 5 is $no5\n";
> print STDOUT "no 6 is $no6\n";
>
> my $no7 = $cups_to_cc * ($cent_to_inch**$no5);
> print STDOUT "no 7 is $no7\n";
>
>
> my $no7 = 7.5;
> my $no8 = 2**$no7;
> my $no9 = 10*$no8;
>
> print STDOUT "no 5 7is $no7\n";
> print STDOUT "no 68 is $no8\n";
> print STDOUT "no 9 is $no9\n";
>
> # perl bank4.pl 2>text55.txt >text56.txt
> # end script beigin putput
> no 1 is 42
> no 2 is 2.71
> no 3 is 236.588238
> no 4 is 0.393700787
> no 5 is 3
> no 6 is 64
> no 7 is 14.4375000473569
> no 5 7is 6.5
> no 68 is 90.5096679918781
> no 9 is 905.096679918781
>
> bank5.pl comes in too high with x at 7.5 and a result of 1800.
> #bank5.pl
> use strict;
> use warnings;
>
> # a cup is a twelfth of a quart
> my $number1 = 42;
> my $no2 = 2.71;
>
> print STDOUT "no 1 is $number1\n";
> print STDOUT "no 2 is $no2\n";
>
> #US cup = 236.588238 cc
> #1 centimeters = 0.393700787 inches
>
> my $cups_to_cc = 236.588238;
>
> my $cent_to_inch = 0.393700787;
> # line 16 Semicolon seems to be missing at sugar3.pl line 16.
> print STDOUT "no 3 is $cups_to_cc\n";
> print STDOUT "no 4 is $cent_to_inch\n";
>
> my $no5 = 3;
> my $no6 = 4**$no5;
>
> print STDOUT "no 5 is $no5\n";
> print STDOUT "no 6 is $no6\n";
>
> my $no7 = $cups_to_cc * ($cent_to_inch**$no5);
> print STDOUT "no 7 is $no7\n";
>
>
> my $no7 = 6.5;
> my $no8 = 2**$no7;
> my $no9 = 10*$no8;
>
> print STDOUT "no 5 7is $no7\n";
> print STDOUT "no 68 is $no8\n";
> print STDOUT "no 9 is $no9\n";
>
> # perl bank5.pl 2>text55.txt >text56.txt
> #end source begin output
> no 1 is 42
> no 2 is 2.71
> no 3 is 236.588238
> no 4 is 0.393700787
> no 5 is 3
> no 6 is 64
> no 7 is 14.4375000473569
> no 5 7is 7.5
> no 68 is 181.019335983756
> no 9 is 1810.19335983756
> # end out begin comment
>
> So x is gonna be between 7.3 and 7.35.
>
> How do I do the contraction to the full width of the datatype?
> --
> wade ward
> wade@zaxfuuq.net
> "Der Katze tritt die Treppe hoch; Der Kater tritt sie krumm.%
> % De Teufel geit um; er bringt de menschen allet dumm."
> schau, schau
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:42:48 -0700
From: Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: control loop for contraction
Message-Id: <nIednfkmEtSUKYDanZ2dnUVZ_tWtnZ2d@comcast.com>
Wade Ward wrote:
> no takers?
It was only 4.5 hours since you first posted your question. You should
wait at least 36 hours for your posting to propagate through USENET before
coming to the conclusion that there are no takers.
> I'm trying to calculate an x s.t. 10 = (2**x )*1600.
The code from the first posting is a bit bizarre, and does not appear
to have anything to do with that statement. And your subject line:
did you mean to say "reduction" instead? "contraction" does not make sense here.
The pseudo code from the second posting is less coherent.
10 = (2**x) * 1600
10/1600 = 2 ** x
log(10/1600) = log(2) * x
x = log(10/1600) / log(2)
linux% perl -le 'print log(10/1600)/log(2)'
-7.32192809488736
linux% perl -le 'print +(2**-7.32192809488736)*1600'
10
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:31:56 -0000
From: Ron Bergin <rkb@i.frys.com>
Subject: Re: generating html form on the fly
Message-Id: <1193121116.162423.309220@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
On Oct 22, 8:58 pm, Glenn Jackman <gle...@ncf.ca> wrote:
> At 2007-10-22 09:19PM, "Tad McClellan" wrote:
>
> > ll <barn104_1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > print "<form method=\"post\" action=\"uploader_ee.cgi\">";
>
> > Yuck. Write is so that you can read it:
>
> > print '<form method="post" action="uploader_ee.cgi">';
> > or
> > print q(<form method="post" action="uploader_ee.cgi">);
>
> or print "<form method='post' action='uploader_ee.cgi'>";
or print $cgi->start_form(-action=>'uploader_ee.cgi');
>
> > > print "<table border=\"1\">\n";
>
> > print qq(<table border="1">\n);
>
> or print "<table border='1'>\n";
or print $cgi->start_table({border=>1});
>
As you can see, I prefer CGI's OO interface, but the functional
interface is fine, however, it doesn't support all of the features
that the OO interface supports.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 06:22:20 +0000 (UTC)
From: rdadams@panix.com (Dick Adams)
Subject: Re: Millionaire Dating Site for Quality Dating.
Message-Id: <ffk3us$a3u$1@reader1.panix.com>
Please do not feed the Trolls.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2007 00:51:08 -0800
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: Millionaire Dating Site for Quality Dating.
Message-Id: <TP6dnVIthKFFBIDanZ2dnUVZ_g-dnZ2d@comcast.com>
And what consists therein? Be a little Iowa fuck?
--
wade ward
Westates Companies
1108 W. South Jordan pkwy
435 -838-7760
President
wade@zaxfuuq.net
"Dick Adams" <rdadams@panix.com> wrote in message
news:ffk3us$a3u$1@reader1.panix.com...
> Please do not feed the Trolls.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:42:15 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue Oct 23 2007
Message-Id: <JqCL2F.1AvI@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Apache2-ASP-1.2
http://search.cpan.org/~johnd/Apache2-ASP-1.2/
Perl extension for ASP on mod_perl2.
----
Archive-Builder-1.13
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Archive-Builder-1.13/
File generation and archiving framework
----
Bio-Das-Lite-1.054
http://search.cpan.org/~rpettett/Bio-Das-Lite-1.054/
Perl extension for the DAS (HTTP+XML) Protocol (http://biodas.org/)
----
CGI-Application-Plugin-Config-IniFiles-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~arto/CGI-Application-Plugin-Config-IniFiles-0.02/
Add Config::IniFiles support to CGI::Application.
----
CGI-Auth-Auto-1.19
http://search.cpan.org/~leocharre/CGI-Auth-Auto-1.19/
Automatic authentication maintenance and persistence for cgi scrips.
----
CGI-Capture-1.10
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/CGI-Capture-1.10/
Meticulously thorough capture and replaying of CGI calls
----
CVS-Metrics-0.16
http://search.cpan.org/~perrad/CVS-Metrics-0.16/
Utilities for process cvs log
----
Cache-FastMmap-1.24
http://search.cpan.org/~robm/Cache-FastMmap-1.24/
Uses an mmap'ed file to act as a shared memory interprocess cache
----
CatalystX-CRUD-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.02/
CRUD framework for Catalyst applications
----
CatalystX-CRUD-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-0.03/
CRUD framework for Catalyst applications
----
CatalystX-CRUD-Controller-RHTMLO-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-Controller-RHTMLO-0.03/
Rose::HTML::Objects CRUD controller
----
CatalystX-CRUD-Model-RDBO-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/CatalystX-CRUD-Model-RDBO-0.01/
----
Clarion-1.1.1
http://search.cpan.org/~ukoloff/Clarion-1.1.1/
Perl module for reading CLARION 2.1 data files
----
Clarion-1.1_2
http://search.cpan.org/~ukoloff/Clarion-1.1_2/
Perl module for reading CLARION 2.1 data files
----
Config-Loader-1.12
http://search.cpan.org/~drtech/Config-Loader-1.12/
(DEPRECATED) Replaced by Config::Merge
----
Config-Merge-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~drtech/Config-Merge-1.00/
load a configuration directory tree containing YAML, JSON, XML, Perl, INI or Config::General files
----
Cvs-Simple-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~stephenca/Cvs-Simple-0.03/
Perl interface to cvs
----
Device-SerialPins-v0.0.2
http://search.cpan.org/~ewilhelm/Device-SerialPins-v0.0.2/
per-pin low-level serial port access
----
File-Filename-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~leocharre/File-Filename-1.02/
expect a filename to be named by a person to be metadata
----
Froody-42.041_1
http://search.cpan.org/~fotango/Froody-42.041_1/
Yet another XML web API framework
----
Games-Hack-Patch-i686-0.2
http://search.cpan.org/~pmarek/Games-Hack-Patch-i686-0.2/
How to patch code sequences on i686
----
Gedcom-FOAF-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~bricas/Gedcom-FOAF-0.03/
Output FOAF files from Gedcom individuals and families
----
HTML-StripScripts-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~drtech/HTML-StripScripts-1.01/
Strip scripting constructs out of HTML
----
HTML-StripScripts-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~drtech/HTML-StripScripts-1.02/
Strip scripting constructs out of HTML
----
HTML-StripScripts-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~drtech/HTML-StripScripts-1.03/
Strip scripting constructs out of HTML
----
IPC-SysV-1.99_07
http://search.cpan.org/~mhx/IPC-SysV-1.99_07/
System V IPC constants and system calls
----
JIRA-Attachments-Rename-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~martyloo/JIRA-Attachments-Rename-1.02/
----
JIRA-Attachments-Rename-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~martyloo/JIRA-Attachments-Rename-1.03/
----
JSON-Any-1.12
http://search.cpan.org/~perigrin/JSON-Any-1.12/
Wrapper Class for the various JSON classes.
----
LaTeX-Table-0.4.0
http://search.cpan.org/~limaone/LaTeX-Table-0.4.0/
Perl extension for the automatic generation of LaTeX tables.
----
List-oo-v0.1.0
http://search.cpan.org/~ewilhelm/List-oo-v0.1.0/
object interface to list (array) methods
----
List-oo-v0.1.1
http://search.cpan.org/~ewilhelm/List-oo-v0.1.1/
object interface to list (array) methods
----
Log-Message-Simple-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~kane/Log-Message-Simple-0.04/
----
MQSeries-1.28-b
http://search.cpan.org/~hbiersma/MQSeries-1.28-b/
Perl extension for MQSeries support
----
MooseX-Daemonize-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~perigrin/MooseX-Daemonize-0.03/
provides a Role that daemonizes your Moose based application.
----
MooseX-Iterator-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~rlb/MooseX-Iterator-0.05/
Iterate over collections
----
MooseX-Iterator-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~rlb/MooseX-Iterator-0.06/
Iterate over collections
----
MooseX-POE-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~perigrin/MooseX-POE-0.01/
----
Net-AIML-0.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~perigrin/Net-AIML-0.0.3/
Perl interface to the Pandorabots.com AIML server
----
Object-Tiny-1.04
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Object-Tiny-1.04/
Class building as simple as it gets
----
POE-Component-CPAN-YACSmoke-1.04
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/POE-Component-CPAN-YACSmoke-1.04/
Bringing the power of POE to CPAN smoke testing.
----
PPI-1.201
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/PPI-1.201/
Parse, Analyze and Manipulate Perl (without perl)
----
Parse-Marpa-0.001_022
http://search.cpan.org/~jkegl/Parse-Marpa-0.001_022/
Earley's Algorithm, with improvements
----
Perl-Critic-1.079_003
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Perl-Critic-1.079_003/
Critique Perl source code for best-practices
----
Perl-Dist-Downloads-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Perl-Dist-Downloads-0.03/
The downloads required to build Vanilla Perl distros
----
PodToHTML-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~bdfoy/PodToHTML-0.07/
----
SVN-Pusher-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/SVN-Pusher-0.06/
Propagate changesets between two different svn repositories.
----
Task-Weaken-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Task-Weaken-1.01/
Ensure that a platform has weaken support
----
Tk-Canvas-Point-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~srezic/Tk-Canvas-Point-0.04/
----
Tk-Date-0.42_52
http://search.cpan.org/~srezic/Tk-Date-0.42_52/
a date/time widget for perl/Tk
----
Tk-JPEG-Lite-2.014_04
http://search.cpan.org/~srezic/Tk-JPEG-Lite-2.014_04/
lite JPEG loader for Tk::Photo
----
Tk-TIFF-0.10_50
http://search.cpan.org/~srezic/Tk-TIFF-0.10_50/
----
Win32-GUIRobot-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~karasik/Win32-GUIRobot-0.05/
send keyboard and mouse input to win32, analyze graphical output
----
Win32-IEHistory-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~ishigaki/Win32-IEHistory-0.01/
parse Internet Explorer's history index.dat
----
XML-Compile-SOAP-0.58
http://search.cpan.org/~markov/XML-Compile-SOAP-0.58/
base-class for SOAP implementations
----
YAML-Syck-0.99
http://search.cpan.org/~audreyt/YAML-Syck-0.99/
Fast, lightweight YAML loader and dumper
----
YAML-Tiny-1.16
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/YAML-Tiny-1.16/
Read/Write YAML files with as little code as possible
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:10:42 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <S7hTi.13367$lD6.1448@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:52:20 -0700
From: Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: Unix BG and Perl/TK
Message-Id: <srSdnZ-7IcPZK4DanZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d@comcast.com>
Dodge wrote:
> I've got a perl/TK script that I need to start in the background.
> Since I'm running on Unix, I'd typically do this with:
>
>> myscript.pl &
Here's what I use:
$|++ if $debug; # Make sure STDOUT is unbuffered
unless ($debug) { # Become daemon if not debugging
$pid = fork();
die "$0: fork() failed: $!\n" unless defined $pid;
exit if $pid; # Parent exits, child runs detached
chdir('/') || die;
open(STDIN,'</dev/null') || die;
open(STDOUT,'>>/dev/null') || die;
open(STDERR,'>>/dev/null');
}
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 968
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