[29574] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 818 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Sep 4 06:09:40 2007
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 03:09:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 4 Sep 2007 Volume: 11 Number: 818
Today's topics:
Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginn <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginn <stoupa@practisoft.cz>
Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginn <peter@makholm.net>
Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginn <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginn <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginn <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: How to generate http error in script <stoupa@practisoft.cz>
Re: How to generate http error in script <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: How to generate http error in script <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net>
Re: How to generate http error in script <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Re: how to share variable like IPC::Shareable in win32 <abbypan@gmail.com>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: web programming in perl <spam@nospam.net>
Re: Win32::GUI Text File not getting updated <steven.stone4@btopenworld.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 05:14:50 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginning/end of a string?
Message-Id: <Xns99A1CA421E71asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote in
news:fbh13i$1upj$2@ns.felk.cvut.cz:
> Anno Siegel wrote:
>> On 2007-09-03 03:17:24 +0200, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> said:
>>
>>> like michele said, this is too trivial to need a sub or a library.
>>
>> That too.
>>
> As the case may be ;-) When you remove blanks 50 times in 50kb source
> code then is better to use sub or library.
That is some bad code you write then.
Referring back to your example about normalizing parameter values
obtained from a CGI form, you could do all the required normalization in
one and only place in the code. In fact, you could trim all the CGI
parameters passed in a few lines:
my $cgi = CGI->new
my @form_params = $cgi->param;
for my $p ( @form_params ) {
for my $v ( $cgi->param( $p ) ) {
next unless defined $v;
$v =~ s/^\s+//;
$v =~ s/\s+$//;
}
}
How can it be that you need to do this in fifty different places? Did
you know about lists and loops?
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
clpmisc guidelines: <URL:http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 04:32:12 +0200
From: "Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginning/end of a string?
Message-Id: <fbigit$2nj8$2@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Tad McClellan wrote:
> Petr Vileta <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote:
>> Dr.Ruud wrote:
>>> Petr Vileta schreef:
>
>
>>>> $t =~s/^\s*|\s*$//sg;
>
>>> The /s modifier should not be there.
>
>> but /s modifier I must use
>
>
> If you think so, then you do not yet understand what /s does.
>
> It makes dot match a newline.
>
> It therefore has no effect at all when your pattern does not contain
> a dot.
>
> Your pattern does not contain a dot, so the /s modifier should not be
> there.
I must say - you are right. I had read O'Reilly "Programming in Perl" but I
not found the clean explanation of /s modifier. The book say only "/s tell
to Perl to use multi-line string as single-line". But nowhere is explained
what is the multi-line string. I assume that this is the string where is one
or more "\n".
But for my practical live I assume that is better to use /s needlesly then
omit to use /s for damned string containing "\n" :-)
--
Petr Vileta, Czech republic
(My server rejects all messages from Yahoo and Hotmail. Send me your mail
from another non-spammer site please.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:08:36 +0000
From: Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginning/end of a string?
Message-Id: <87sl5v1397.fsf@hacking.dk>
Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> PM> The /s-modifier withou the /m-modifier also forces ^ and $ to mean
>> PM> beginning and end of string no matter what $* is. But you shouldn't
>> PM> use $* so for every sane piece of code you're right.
>>
>> /s and /m are independent so i wouldn't use the word 'forces'. the
>> behavior of ^ and $ are not affected by /s.
Quite surprised? It took me many reading of the documentation to
understand it too, ...
> No, bizarrely enough Peter seems to be correct, in that iff $* is set /s
> affects ^ and $ as well, undoing the effects of setting $*:
... but it works just as documented in perlre:
The "/s" and "/m" modifiers both override the $* setting. That is,
no matter what $* contains, "/s" without "/m" will force "^" to
match only at the beginning of the string and "$" to match only at
the end (or just before a newline at the end) of the string.
Together, as /ms, they let the "." match any character whatsoever,
while still allowing "^" and "$" to match, respectively, just after
and just before newlines within the string.
That is, concerning '$' and '^', the /s modifier works as if $* is
false, the /m modifier works as if $* is true, and both modifiers
works as if $* is true.
But again, nobody should change $*, so the simple explanations will do
for all modern code.
//Makholm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 19:17:19 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginning/end of a string?
Message-Id: <x73axvh83k.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "PM" == Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net> writes:
PM> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> Did you try it without /s? The *only* thing /s affects is the behaviour
>> of '.'. You have no '.'s in your regex, so /s makes no difference.
PM> The /s-modifier withou the /m-modifier also forces ^ and $ to mean
PM> beginning and end of string no matter what $* is. But you shouldn't
PM> use $* so for every sane piece of code you're right.
/s and /m are independent so i wouldn't use the word 'forces'. the
behavior of ^ and $ are not affected by /s.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 22:02:19 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginning/end of a string?
Message-Id: <rb9uq4-ug3.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>:
> >>>>> "PM" == Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net> writes:
>
> PM> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
> >> Did you try it without /s? The *only* thing /s affects is the behaviour
> >> of '.'. You have no '.'s in your regex, so /s makes no difference.
>
> PM> The /s-modifier withou the /m-modifier also forces ^ and $ to mean
> PM> beginning and end of string no matter what $* is. But you shouldn't
> PM> use $* so for every sane piece of code you're right.
>
> /s and /m are independent so i wouldn't use the word 'forces'. the
> behavior of ^ and $ are not affected by /s.
No, bizarrely enough Peter seems to be correct, in that iff $* is set /s
affects ^ and $ as well, undoing the effects of setting $*:
$ perl -le'$* = 1; $_ = "\nfoo"; print /^foo/; print /^foo/s;'
1
$
However, this is clearly a silly edge case, as the whole point of /sm is
to remove the need to ever set $*.
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 22:24:10 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.32 How do I strip blank space from the beginning/end of a string?
Message-Id: <x7lkbnfkvr.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "BM" == Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
BM> Quoth Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>:
>> >>>>> "PM" == Peter Makholm <peter@makholm.net> writes:
>>
PM> Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> writes:
>> >> Did you try it without /s? The *only* thing /s affects is the behaviour
>> >> of '.'. You have no '.'s in your regex, so /s makes no difference.
>>
PM> The /s-modifier withou the /m-modifier also forces ^ and $ to mean
PM> beginning and end of string no matter what $* is. But you shouldn't
PM> use $* so for every sane piece of code you're right.
>>
>> /s and /m are independent so i wouldn't use the word 'forces'. the
>> behavior of ^ and $ are not affected by /s.
BM> No, bizarrely enough Peter seems to be correct, in that iff $* is set /s
BM> affects ^ and $ as well, undoing the effects of setting $*:
but that isn't what he said. he said /s without /m FORCES ^ and $ no
matter the setting of $*. so i said it doesn't as /s has no effect on ^
and $ and disregarded $* as it is deprecated and was a very silly
variable that larry deeply regrets creating. :)
BM> $ perl -le'$* = 1; $_ = "\nfoo"; print /^foo/; print /^foo/s;'
BM> 1
BM> $
BM> However, this is clearly a silly edge case, as the whole point of /sm is
BM> to remove the need to ever set $*.
from perlvar:
$* Set to a non-zero integer value to do multi-line matching
within a string, 0 (or undefined) to tell Perl that it can
assume that strings contain a single line, for the purpose of
optimizing pattern matches. Pattern matches on strings con¡¾
taining multiple newlines can produce confusing results when $*
is 0 or undefined. Default is undefined. (Mnemonic: * matches
multiple things.) This variable influences the interpretation
of only "^" and "$". A literal newline can be searched for even
when "$* == 0".
Use of $* is deprecated in modern Perl, supplanted by the "/s"
and "/m" modifiers on pattern matching.
Assigning a non-numerical value to $* triggers a warning (and
makes $* act if "$* == 0"), while assigning a numerical value
to $* makes that an implicit "int" is applied on the value.
and the docs there are very muddy. they don't define 'multiline
matching' and they claim confusing results when $* is disabled. i don't
find the results confusing :)
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 04:13:16 +0200
From: "Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz>
Subject: Re: How to generate http error in script
Message-Id: <fbigit$2nj8$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz>
Peter J. Holzer wrote:
> On 2007-09-03 03:48, Petr Vileta <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote:
>> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>>> "Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz> writes:
>> Because I do not use Apache authentication but by parameters on GET
>> method only. If all parameters are passed right then script return
>> XML file, in other case must return http 401 error.
>
> In this case 401 is probably wrong. 401 is intended to be used with
> the WWW-Authenticate and Authorization headers:
>
Yes, right. But what other http error you suggest? I not want to return
Status: 200 and human readable error message. I aspire to deter robots from
trying to download ;-)
Here are errors what I know:
400 Bad Request
401 Unauthorized
402 Payment Required
403 Forbidden
404 Not Found
405 Method Not Allowed
406 Not Acceptable
407 Proxy Authentication Required
408 Request Timeout
409 Conflict
410 Gone
411 Length Required
412 Precondition Failed
413 Request Entity Too Large
414 Request URL Too Long
415 Unsupported Media Type
416 Requested Range Not Satisfiable
417 Expectation Failed
--
Petr Vileta, Czech republic
(My server rejects all messages from Yahoo and Hotmail. Send me your mail
from another non-spammer site please.)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 04:59:43 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: How to generate http error in script
Message-Id: <Xns99A1A1467908asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote in
news:fbigit$2nj8$1@ns.felk.cvut.cz:
> Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>> On 2007-09-03 03:48, Petr Vileta <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote:
>>> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>>>> "Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz> writes:
>>> Because I do not use Apache authentication but by parameters on GET
>>> method only. If all parameters are passed right then script return
>>> XML file, in other case must return http 401 error.
>>
>> In this case 401 is probably wrong. 401 is intended to be used with
>> the WWW-Authenticate and Authorization headers:
>>
> Yes, right. But what other http error you suggest? I not want to
> return Status: 200 and human readable error message.
See http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
10.4.2 401 Unauthorized
The request requires user authentication. The response MUST include a
WWW-Authenticate header field (section 14.47) containing a challenge
applicable to the requested resource. The client MAY repeat the request
with a suitable Authorization header field (section 14.8). If the
request already included Authorization credentials, then the 401
response indicates that authorization has been refused for those
credentials. If the 401 response contains the same challenge as the
prior response, and the user agent has already attempted authentication
at least once, then the user SHOULD be presented the entity that was
given in the response, since that entity might include relevant
diagnostic information. HTTP access authentication is explained in "HTTP
Authentication: Basic and Digest Access Authentication" [43].
403 is a perfectly acceptable code to return given your requirements:
10.4.4 403 Forbidden
The server understood the request, but is refusing to fulfill it.
Authorization will not help and the request SHOULD NOT be repeated. If
the request method was not HEAD and the server wishes to make public why
the request has not been fulfilled, it SHOULD describe the reason for
the refusal in the entity. If the server does not wish to make this
information available to the client, the status code 404 (Not Found) can
be used instead.
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
clpmisc guidelines: <URL:http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 23:34:57 -0500
From: "Mumia W." <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How to generate http error in script
Message-Id: <13dpqh2pl9a2n12@corp.supernews.com>
On 09/03/2007 09:13 PM, Petr Vileta wrote:
> Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>> On 2007-09-03 03:48, Petr Vileta <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote:
>>> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>>
>> In this case 401 is probably wrong. 401 is intended to be used with
>> the WWW-Authenticate and Authorization headers:
>>
> Yes, right. But what other http error you suggest?
> [...]
> 403 Forbidden
> [...]
I would use that one.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:59:32 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: How to generate http error in script
Message-Id: <m27in72cor.fsf@dot-app.org>
"Petr Vileta" <stoupa@practisoft.cz> writes:
> Peter J. Holzer wrote:
>> On 2007-09-03 03:48, Petr Vileta <stoupa@practisoft.cz> wrote:
>>> Because I do not use Apache authentication but by parameters on GET
>>> method only. If all parameters are passed right then script return
>>> XML file, in other case must return http 401 error.
>>
>> In this case 401 is probably wrong. 401 is intended to be used with
>> the WWW-Authenticate and Authorization headers:
I agree with Peter.
In the context of HTTP, user and password form elements are not special
in any way; they're just form data. That kind of login and HTTP auth are
basically oil and water - they don't mix well. If you use a 401 response,
you should pair it with standard HTTP auth. Conversely, if you use an HTML
login form, you shouldn't use a 401 when it fails.
> Yes, right. But what other http error you suggest?
I think "403 Forbidden" would be appropriate. The W3C's description of it
says "authorization will not help", but that simply means that the browser
shouldn't bother prompting for standard HTTP auth info, like it would for
a 401 response.
> I not want to
> return Status: 200 and human readable error message. I aspire to deter
> robots from trying to download ;-)
Note that your script can include content with a 403 response itself, or
you can use Apache's ErrorDocument config directive to specify a document
to return with 403 responses.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:32:06 -0000
From: lsyx <abbypan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: how to share variable like IPC::Shareable in win32 ?
Message-Id: <1188869526.246623.198190@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com>
On 9 3 , 9 27 , Ben Morrow <b...@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> Quoth lsyx <abby...@gmail.com>:
>
> > I use IPC::Shareable to share Perl variables between processes in
> > linux.
>
> > But it can't work in windows.
>
> If you want an interface similar to IPC::Shareable, where random
> processes created independantly can locate the shared memory given an
> appropriate ID, you may have some luck with Win32::MMF.
>
> However, if your processes are all forked perl processes (that is, they
> are all children of one parent), you can share variables by switching
> from fork to threads and threads::shared. Fork is emulated using threads
> under Win32 anyway.
>
> Ben
thanks so much! The Win32::MMF is what i want.Maybe I can try
threads::shared later. :)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2007 07:10:13 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <px7Di.1560$Sd4.838@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 22:25:29 +0200
From: Tom Forsmo <spam@nospam.net>
Subject: Re: web programming in perl
Message-Id: <46dc6de9$1@news.broadpark.no>
wrote:
> Tom Forsmo wrote:
>> The reason I asked was that the traffic on this group is not very
>> high, when you remove the perlfaq automated posts, so I assumed there
>> were other more high traffic forums.
>
> Excuse me? Just for August I got over 1800 postings even _after_ filtering
> some very verbose trolls. If an average of 60 postings a day isn't enough
> traffic for you then I don't know what.
Maybe its my ISP's news server then, my view shows me about 5-10 posts
per day in this group, thats including automated posts.
tom
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:17:34 -0700
From: steve <steven.stone4@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: Win32::GUI Text File not getting updated
Message-Id: <1188879454.053520.13970@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
On Sep 2, 10:41 am, Robert May <remay...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On Sep 2, 7:24 am, steve <steven.sto...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
> > I created a very simple receiver socket script and a sender script
> > which work in as much that I can send different 'messages' between
> > them :-)
>
> > Then I tried the same using a Win32::GUI setup, simple window with a
> > textfield where the messages should appear as I send them, but nothing
> > happens until I exit the window (with an Exit Button) at which point
> > all the messages appear in the textfield.
>
> > The applications is obviously stuck in some loop somewhere that is
> > preventing the update of the textfield, but I cant figure it out :-(
>
> [snip code]
>
> > Win32::GUI::Dialog();
>
> Try removing that line from your receiver - it won't return until you
> close your window. Win32::GUI::DoEvents() is the 'non-blocking'
> equivalent.
>
> Regards,
> Rob.
Many Thanks Rob,
works an treat now
regards
Steve
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 818
**************************************