[29458] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 702 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jul 31 06:09:38 2007
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 03:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 31 Jul 2007 Volume: 11 Number: 702
Today's topics:
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Re: @arts anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Re: deleting duplicates in array using references <mritty@gmail.com>
new CPAN modules on Tue Jul 31 2007 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: Perl threads ivakras1@gmail.com
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: Using DBI, better option than importing into @array <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Re: Using DBI, better option than importing into @array <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:16:35 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <RIudndLncL8SBjPbnZ2dnUVZ_uSgnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Michele Dondi" <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:legra31698n5ps1i2ebmk2ph82n7shva19@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:04:46 -0700, "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> This is all very silly. Aaaaanyway.
>>To me, these are very interesting things. When you routinely miss
>>studying
>
> Yes interesting, but as the person whom you're replying to also wrote,
> silly too.
>
>>a given point in a new syntax, you study fundamental language concepts by
>
> No, these are *not* fundamental language concepts. The kind of
> exercises shown here can be regarded as "advanced stuff".
>
>>accident. I'll have to try out these new directions for myself. Thanks
>>for
>
> Honestly, I suggest you do a favour to yourself and postpone them for
> a later stage of your Perl-jitsu. It's really too early now.
> Familiarize with *really* basic Perl stuff first.
>
That means reading. I think the basic stuff in perl is C.
Perl really is very idiomatic and in a different way than C though. There
are so many higher-level language concepts in the prroidge with perl.exe, in
particular with all the modules you get by the simple act of acting on
usenet where it is.
I'll be traveling shortly so herewith end my forms of lurking. I'll talk to
you all when I get there, and must say thanks to everyone who helped, which,
among responders, was everyone.
--
Wade Ward
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:21:31 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <QO6dnWeHjbIlATPbnZ2dnUVZ_j-dnZ2d@comcast.com>
"A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns997D6165A5294asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1...
> "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in
> news:3YSdnf_r4p6FoTHbnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@comcast.com:
>
>>
>> "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Xns997BF3BADEEFasu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1...
>
> ...
>
>>> C:\Home\asu1\Src\test> cat Clikei.pm
>>> package Clikei;
>>>
>>> use strict;
>>> use warnings;
>>>
>>> sub import {
>>> my $package = shift;
>>> my $export_to = caller;
>>>
>>> for my $name ( @_ ) {
>>> my $sub_name = "${export_to}::${name}";
>>> {
>>> my $x;
>>> no strict 'refs';
>>> *{$sub_name} = sub () : lvalue { $x };
>>> }
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>
> ...
>
>>> This is all very silly. Aaaaanyway.
>
> ...
>
>> To me, these are very interesting things.
>
> Being silly and interesting are not mutually exclusive. Shoving mentos
> pieces in a 2 lt Diet Coke is also interesting yet very, very silly.
>
>> When you routinely miss studying a given point in a new syntax, you
>> study fundamental language concepts by accident.
>
> Don't do it by accident, do it by design.
>
> Go step by step. Get the simple stuff right first: I.e. get this example
> to run on your computer.
>
>> --
>> Wade Ward
>
> You sig separator is incorrect it should be dash dash space newline.
> Yours is missing a space before the newline.
>
> When you use a correct sig separator, newsreader software can
> automatically snip signatures.
>
> Sinan
>
> --
> A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
> (remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
> clpmisc guidelines: <URL:http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml>
>
I wish I had more time to talk. To me a '-- \nWade Ward' is like a
Beethoven finish. Usually by then I'm tyoping well, which is something I've
really improved on. The key to it for me is that I don't go back and
correct every error.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:24:11 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <y92dnTETUrnFADPbnZ2dnUVZ_hisnZ2d@comcast.com>
<anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:5h5m3jF3j4vb7U1@mid.dfncis.de...
> Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>> My compiler takes a puke on line 7, which is a use statement. Does this
>> not
>> mean that I need to install another module on my machine?
>
> Not if Clikey.pm is in your current directory.
I don't see it in the bin. What I don't undertstand is that all the garbage
in there didn't sort itself with a dir command. Tja.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: 31 Jul 2007 08:26:58 GMT
From: anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <5h8a2iF3i74klU1@mid.dfncis.de>
Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
> "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid> wrote in message
[...]
> > You sig separator is incorrect it should be dash dash space newline.
> > Yours is missing a space before the newline.
[...]
> I wish I had more time to talk. To me a '-- \nWade Ward' is like a
> Beethoven finish. Usually by then I'm tyoping well, which is something I've
> really improved on. The key to it for me is that I don't go back and
> correct every error.
Most people have their sig (separator included) in a file ~/.signature,
or whatever a specific news reader prefers. Once the separator is
correct it will stay correct.
Anno -- sigless since 1989
------------------------------
Date: 31 Jul 2007 08:28:21 GMT
From: anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <5h8a55F3i74klU2@mid.dfncis.de>
Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
> <anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
> news:5h5m3jF3j4vb7U1@mid.dfncis.de...
> > Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
> >> My compiler takes a puke on line 7, which is a use statement. Does this
> >> not
> >> mean that I need to install another module on my machine?
> >
> > Not if Clikey.pm is in your current directory.
> I don't see it in the bin.
It's yours. You got to put it there.
> What I don't undertstand is that all the garbage
> in there didn't sort itself with a dir command. Tja.
Huh?
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:42:29 -0700
From: Paul Lalli <mritty@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: deleting duplicates in array using references
Message-Id: <1185846149.017451.177910@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On Jul 30, 5:18 pm, billb <billbea...@f2s.com> wrote:
> On 30 Jul, 19:46, Paul Lalli <mri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 30, 2:37 pm, billb <billbea...@f2s.com> wrote:
>
> > > i have a multidimensional array, but i want to delete duplicate
> > > entries based on the first element of each 'row'.
> > > my @array = ( [UK9004411, A140, B, 0.040] , [UK0030239, H7140, H,
> > > 0.030] , [UK0030239, S1393, M1, 0.030] , [UK0012821, H4030, H,
> > > 0.010] , [UK0012821, H4060, H, 0.010] );
>
> > > and I want to end up with
> > > ( [UK9004411, A140, B, 0.040] , [UK0030239, H7140, H, 0.030] ,
> > > [UK0012821, H4030, H, 0.010] )
> > my %seen;
> > my @nodups = grep { !$seen{$_->[0]}++ } @array;
> ah, very simple and very fast as well! I'll have to understand how
> this is working. It uses a hash I see.
It helps if you expand it out to remove all the "shortcuts"
my %seen;
my @nodups;
foreach my $elem (@array) {
if (! $seen{$elem->[0]}) {
push @nodups, $elem;
}
$seen{$elem->[0]}++;
}
So we're looping through the 2d array, and we check to see if the
first element of the current array reference has been "seen" yet. If
not, we add this array reference to our list of no duplicates. Then
we increment the number of times we've "seen" this element, so that if
the same element is seen again, we won't add it next time.
The shortcuts:
* a foreach-if-push combination is equivalent to grep(). grep selects
only those elements from a list for which the if condition holds.
* in the grep, $_ is used to represent the current element of the
array (rather than $elem as in the above expansion)
* The ++ operator is applied to the same expression as when we're
checking the current value of $seen{$_->[0]}, because a post-fix ++
increments the value *after* returning that value. That is:
$x = $foo++;
is equivalent to:
$x = $foo;
$foo++;
In contrast,
$x = ++$foo;
is equivalent to
$foo++;
$x = $foo;
> Many thanks.
You're welcome
Paul Lalli
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:42:12 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue Jul 31 2007
Message-Id: <JM112C.142o@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-Prereq-None-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~mschilli/Acme-Prereq-None-0.01/
Module for testing CPAN module prerequisites
----
Bio-Grep-v0.8.0
http://search.cpan.org/~limaone/Bio-Grep-v0.8.0/
Perl extension for searching in Fasta files
----
Brackup-1.04
http://search.cpan.org/~bradfitz/Brackup-1.04/
Flexible backup tool. Slices, dices, encrypts, and sprays across the net.
----
Bundle-Compress-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~ski/Bundle-Compress-0.03/
installs Compress modules
----
Bundle-Perl-Critic-IncludingOptionalDependencies-v1.0.0
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Bundle-Perl-Critic-IncludingOptionalDependencies-v1.0.0/
Install everything Perl::Critic plus its optional dependencies.
----
Business-BR-Ids-0.00_19
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Business-BR-Ids-0.00_19/
Modules for dealing with Brazilian identification codes (CPF, CNPJ, ...)
----
CGI-Simple-1.1.1
http://search.cpan.org/~andya/CGI-Simple-1.1.1/
A Simple totally OO CGI interface that is CGI.pm compliant
----
CGI-Simple-1.1.2
http://search.cpan.org/~andya/CGI-Simple-1.1.2/
A Simple totally OO CGI interface that is CGI.pm compliant
----
CGI-Simple-1.103
http://search.cpan.org/~andya/CGI-Simple-1.103/
A Simple totally OO CGI interface that is CGI.pm compliant
----
CPAN-Unwind-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~mschilli/CPAN-Unwind-0.05/
Recursively determines dependencies of CPAN modules
----
CURRENT-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~tamashiro/CURRENT-0.01/
Alias of current class
----
Carp-Always-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Carp-Always-0.09/
Warns and dies noisily with stack backtraces
----
Carp-Indeed-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Carp-Indeed-0.09/
DEPRECATE Warns and dies noisily with stack backtraces
----
Chemistry-Elements-1.04
http://search.cpan.org/~bdfoy/Chemistry-Elements-1.04/
Perl extension for working with Chemical Elements
----
Chess-0.6.2
http://search.cpan.org/~bjr/Chess-0.6.2/
a framework for writing chess programs with Perl
----
Data-FormValidator-Constraints-MethodsFactory-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~gtermars/Data-FormValidator-Constraints-MethodsFactory-0.01/
Create constraints for Data::FormValidator
----
File-chdir-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~dagolden/File-chdir-0.09/
a more sensible way to change directories
----
HTML-Template-Compiled-0.87
http://search.cpan.org/~tinita/HTML-Template-Compiled-0.87/
Template System Compiles HTML::Template files to Perl code
----
HoneyClient-Agent-0.98-stable
http://search.cpan.org/~mitrehc/HoneyClient-Agent-0.98-stable/
Perl extension to instantiate a SOAP server that provides a central interface for all agent-based HoneyClient operations.
----
HoneyClient-DB-0.98-stable
http://search.cpan.org/~mitrehc/HoneyClient-DB-0.98-stable/
Perl extension to provide an abstract interface for storing HoneyClient data into a database.
----
HoneyClient-Manager-0.98-stable
http://search.cpan.org/~mitrehc/HoneyClient-Manager-0.98-stable/
----
HoneyClient-Util-0.98-stable
http://search.cpan.org/~mitrehc/HoneyClient-Util-0.98-stable/
----
Integrator-Module-Build-1.054
http://search.cpan.org/~fxfx/Integrator-Module-Build-1.054/
Gather and synchronize Test::More results in Cydone's Integrator
----
Integrator-Module-Build-1.055
http://search.cpan.org/~fxfx/Integrator-Module-Build-1.055/
Gather and synchronize Test::More results in Cydone's Integrator
----
Net-Ping-2.32
http://search.cpan.org/~smpeters/Net-Ping-2.32/
check a remote host for reachability
----
Net-TacacsPlus-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~jkutej/Net-TacacsPlus-1.02/
Tacacs+ library
----
OODoc-Template-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~markov/OODoc-Template-0.12/
Simple template system
----
Palm-TreoPhoneCallDB-1.1
http://search.cpan.org/~dcantrell/Palm-TreoPhoneCallDB-1.1/
Handler for Treo PhoneCallDB databases
----
Perl-Critic-Tics-0.001
http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/Perl-Critic-Tics-0.001/
policies for things that make me wince
----
Perl-Critic-Tics-0.002
http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/Perl-Critic-Tics-0.002/
policies for things that make me wince
----
Perl-Critic-Tics-0.003
http://search.cpan.org/~rjbs/Perl-Critic-Tics-0.003/
policies for things that make me wince
----
Regexp-Assemble-0.32
http://search.cpan.org/~dland/Regexp-Assemble-0.32/
Assemble multiple Regular Expressions into a single RE
----
Return-DataButBool-v0.0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~dmuey/Return-DataButBool-v0.0.1/
Return a boolean value that also has arbitrary numeric and string values
----
Statistics-Benford-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~gray/Statistics-Benford-0.02/
calculate the deviation from Benford's Law
----
Sub-Uplevel-0.16
http://search.cpan.org/~dagolden/Sub-Uplevel-0.16/
apparently run a function in a higher stack frame
----
Sys-Statistics-Linux-0.14
http://search.cpan.org/~bloonix/Sys-Statistics-Linux-0.14/
Front-end module to collect system statistics
----
Task-Perl-Critic-IncludingOptionalDepencencies-v1.000
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Task-Perl-Critic-IncludingOptionalDepencencies-v1.000/
----
Task-Perl-Critic-v1.002
http://search.cpan.org/~elliotjs/Task-Perl-Critic-v1.002/
Install everything Perl::Critic.
----
Template-Multilingual-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~cholet/Template-Multilingual-0.09/
Multilingual templates for Template Toolkit
----
p5-Palm-1.009
http://search.cpan.org/~bdfoy/p5-Palm-1.009/
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:44:12 -0000
From: ivakras1@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Perl threads
Message-Id: <1185857052.744414.146940@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
On 30 , 21:08, xhos...@gmail.com wrote:
> Instead of putting in a comment telling us you are using syslog, you
> should show us the code that actually "use"s syslog. (By which
> you presumably mean Sys::Syslog?) Is Sys::Syslog thread safe?
use Sys::Syslog qw( :DEFAULT setlogsock); #thats how im using syslog
> The easy way is not to detach the threads. Then, just before the parent
> exits, run through threads->list and join all of them. Or you could use
> Thread::Running
I working on network sniffer and packet analizer. The main program
starts to capture network packets with "use Net::Pcap". Each 100
packets captured - main program dumps packets in a file and starts a
new thread with arguments, contains a file name. Than main thread
continue sniffing, and the thread starts to analize the file. The idea
is to make main program work with no pauses for waiting joined thread
or something else, it causes packet missing. I tried to fire up
threads with detach (threads creates fast, 10-20 per second). But when
the main program is done (by ctrl+c or else) - perl warns me the
number of threads still running. How can i get this number by myself
to wait for detached threads dies?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:11:10 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <igBri.53822$5j1.52376@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:44:42 -0000
From: Jason <jwcarlton@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Using DBI, better option than importing into @array
Message-Id: <1185846282.518873.249140@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>
On Jul 30, 8:00 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t...@lifelogs.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:30:36 -0000 Jason <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> J> # Push subjects into Perl array
> J> my $filelist = $dbh->selectall_arrayref("SELECT `id`, `lastmodified`,
> J> `subject` FROM $forum_subjects ORDER BY lastmodified DESC");
> ...
> J> # In the "view subject" section, loop through last 20 indexes of
> J> @filenames
> J> # 0 and 20 are dynamic in the real script
> J> for ($count=0; $count < 20; $count++) {
> J> ($id, $lastmodified, $subject) = split(/\|:\|/, $filenames[$count]);
>
> J> my $topiclist = $dbh->selectall_arrayref("SELECT `id`, `subject`,
> J> `postdate`, `username`, `email`, `comment` FROM $forum_posts WHERE
> J> id=" . $dbh->quote($id) . " ORDER BY postdate ASC");
>
> J> print ...
> J> }
>
> J> I know that this has got to be the most inefficient method possible,
> J> but I haven't found a better way. Is there a faster method to get the
> J> information I want than this?
>
> First of all, you may want to use sprintf() to make your SQL strings
> clearer. Also, don't use $dbh->quote() only sometimes, use it all the
> time.
>
> Second, learn SQL better and you'll be able to write the exact query
> that will return the last 20 items with the detail you need. It's not a
> Perl problem that your approach is slow. I won't write the query for
> you, because you should look it up, and it may make sense for you to use
> the MySQL-specific version as opposed to the standard SQL version.
>
> Last but most important, use Rose::DB::Object or Class::DBI (both on
> CPAN) to automate your database work. You'll spend 2 hours learning how
> to set up a Rose::DB connection, then you'll save weeks of your time
> using all the functionality that RDBO provides for you. I like
> Class::DBI too, but RDBO is IMHO much better supported and designed, so
> I reccomend it.
>
> Ted
Thanks for the tip on Rose::DB::Object. The whole point of this
exercise is to learn MySQL, anyway (the system functions in flat text,
just not well), so that helps a lot.
- J
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:27:39 -0400
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: Using DBI, better option than importing into @array
Message-Id: <m21wepl0b8.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:44:42 -0000 Jason <jwcarlton@gmail.com> wrote:
J> On Jul 30, 8:00 pm, Ted Zlatanov <t...@lifelogs.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:30:36 -0000 Jason <jwcarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
J> # Push subjects into Perl array
J> my $filelist = $dbh->selectall_arrayref("SELECT `id`, `lastmodified`,
J> `subject` FROM $forum_subjects ORDER BY lastmodified DESC");
>> ...
J> # In the "view subject" section, loop through last 20 indexes of
J> @filenames
J> # 0 and 20 are dynamic in the real script
J> for ($count=0; $count < 20; $count++) {
J> ($id, $lastmodified, $subject) = split(/\|:\|/, $filenames[$count]);
>>
J> my $topiclist = $dbh->selectall_arrayref("SELECT `id`, `subject`,
J> `postdate`, `username`, `email`, `comment` FROM $forum_posts WHERE
J> id=" . $dbh->quote($id) . " ORDER BY postdate ASC");
>>
J> print ...
J> }
>>
J> I know that this has got to be the most inefficient method possible,
J> but I haven't found a better way. Is there a faster method to get the
J> information I want than this?
>>
>> First of all, you may want to use sprintf() to make your SQL strings
>> clearer. Also, don't use $dbh->quote() only sometimes, use it all the
>> time.
>>
>> Second, learn SQL better and you'll be able to write the exact query
>> that will return the last 20 items with the detail you need. It's not a
>> Perl problem that your approach is slow. I won't write the query for
>> you, because you should look it up, and it may make sense for you to use
>> the MySQL-specific version as opposed to the standard SQL version.
>>
>> Last but most important, use Rose::DB::Object or Class::DBI (both on
>> CPAN) to automate your database work. You'll spend 2 hours learning how
>> to set up a Rose::DB connection, then you'll save weeks of your time
>> using all the functionality that RDBO provides for you. I like
>> Class::DBI too, but RDBO is IMHO much better supported and designed, so
>> I reccomend it.
J> Thanks for the tip on Rose::DB::Object. The whole point of this
J> exercise is to learn MySQL, anyway (the system functions in flat text,
J> just not well), so that helps a lot.
If you do use RDBO, turn on the "Debug" flag for the objects and the
managers. You'll see the full SQL queries RDBO makes, which is a nice
learning tool. Once you've used RDBO, you'll wonder why you ever
suffered through the DBI interface.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 702
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