[29442] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 686 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jul 26 21:09:49 2007
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:09:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 26 Jul 2007 Volume: 11 Number: 686
Today's topics:
Re: @arts <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: @arts <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: @arts <michaellhartsough@sbcglobal.net>
Assignments with $_ using substitution <kingskippus@gmail.com>
Re: Assignments with $_ using substitution <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Assignments with $_ using substitution <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: fork command. <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: I am giving up perl because of assholes on clpm -- (aka ? the Platypus)
Re: I am giving up perl because of assholes on clpm -- <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid>
Re: I am giving up perl because of assholes on clpm -- <byte8bits@gmail.com>
Looking to do work with DNS through Perl <djcameron60616@yahoo.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:35:59 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <77qha393b3nr1nlapmhbhc5a245vn9d55l@4ax.com>
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:30:38 -0400, Sherm Pendley
<spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote:
>> Well, but then Perl style will be disambiguated from C style
>
>That's not a "but", it's precisely the effect I have in mind. :-)
Well, you're perfectly right or course.
>I dislike the fact that they "for" and "foreach" are synonyms, so I pretend
>that they're not - but I *do* like having both styles available, and I use
>them both.
Fair enough. Actually I use C-style rarely enough that if you ask me
it hardly exists.
>> , and the "foreach" synonim will be flushed out.
>
>How does that follow? I use "foreach" when writing Perl-style loops, and I
>use those far more often than C-style loops.
Well, it doesn't follow, and it doesn't seem to me to have claimed so.
>> That IMHO is a preference
>> for a three letters long thingie called "for".
>
>Not at all. Using a single keyword to refer to both styles would be, IMHO,
>just as bad as having two interchangeable keywords.
I meant between "for" and "foreach". But really, with C<for>'s
extended capabilities, it would have been strange to call it a
foreach.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:11:36 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <cgqha3d2l9mr5hsj2dsnegsq6u9t5aojl3@4ax.com>
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:49:00 -0700, "Mike Hartsough"
<michaellhartsough@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>I have just finished reading this entire thread, and this leg is just a
I really hope you're not a morph of hi^its, and I'm replying to you as
a reasonable person...
>baffling display by you. Why can you no conceed the point vronans was
Ok, it is. So what?
>making about your quoting attributions? He even quoted the posting
Very very little, trust me. Perhaps was it a reasonable, respectful
person, I may have considered seconding its request: because as I
already wrote, nobody ever complained with me for not quoting
properly, except two other persons now who didn't really "complain"
either, but just joined the discussion to support his point, one of
which being you. Thus even if it is often said to "judge what is being
said, not he who speaks", and what is being said makes a *little*
amount of sense, I vastly regard its request as its own, and no
others', and since he acted volountarily not to be respected by me, I
am in no way conscending to oblige it.
>guidelines, "Always indicate who wrote the quoted material", so whats
>the problem?
Well, you know, I hardly ever mention the posting guidelines nor
direct people towards them: you can check by searching my past posts.
I'm not a crazy PG-maniac despite being considered rude on "n00bz".
FWIW I've never read them thoroughly either. I always reason on the
basis of good sense, and I (somewhat foolishly, judging by this very
experience) expect people to show good sense either.
Also, guidelines are guidelines. Not the Law. And even if they were, I
think everybody sees everywhere, all the time, laws of his or her own
or some other national country that are immoral according to his or
her ethics. That's why I like netiquette as a "law", because it's not
coming out of imposition, but of good sense.
>Do you consider it professional to create lies about someone (see A.1)
What the heck does the "professional" adjective have to do with this
issue? No, I'm not Michele Dondi PRO, nor Michele Dondi PRO 2000 XP+.
A buzzword is not to change reality, but for little minds.
>rather then to be diplomatic, especially for something so simple as a
>quoting problem?
In all earnestness, and still assuming you're not the PRO ranter, can
you show where did I possibly use the technique to "create lies" about
someone?!?
I'm trying one last time: in the posts in which this "issue" started I
was merely answering to the author of the parent post. I left in
previous quotations to show that he was answering to someone else who
was possibly answering someone else again. In case it would have been
important to know *the identity*, *name* or *nick* of those other
persons, I would have left in the attributions: if they weren't there
in the first place I may have gone so far as rebuilding them. If it
were even more strictly important, I may have gone as far as adopting
an effective quoting style, like
VR>>
TM>
(and so on)
But it was not, by any means, and I'm sure most people wouldn't read
those additional attributions just skipping them: thuse they serve
little or no purpose and must be considered *noise*. I try to trim
down noise. Perhaps vrongans is not concerned because his posts are
noise anyway: yet I try to concentrate on *signal*. Now you will
certainly tell me that this is another baffling display by me. Let it
be...
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:11:03 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <74udncA7DPVihjTbnZ2dnUVZ_remnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:m26447jcn5.fsf@dot-app.org...
> Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> writes:
>
>> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:30:23 -0400, Sherm Pendley
>> <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> It seems that -fortunately- $Larry thinks differently, as C<foreach>
>>>> won't be in Perl 6.
>>>
>>>I'm not sure how that indicates different thinking. I wasn't expressing a
>>>preference for one loop style or another, I was simply pointing out that
>>>some of us prefer to write as if they're not synonyms, using "for" for C
>>>style and "foreach" for Perl style.
>>
>> Well, but then Perl style will be disambiguated from C style
It's a rough thing when you jump from one syntax to another and have
keywords that seem to compete. Fortran has do loops instead of for and a
forall statement that optimizes assignment when looping over arrays.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:20:21 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <fuadnb0VB_ewgzTbnZ2dnUVZ_tmhnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Michele Dondi" <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:mvvga3d01jl59ebk7nckloimt0sf3qdq3r@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:36:14 -0700, "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I've been reading about the functions that I used in the original post.
>>In
>>that syntax is
>>for (reverse $first..$last) { }
>
> Just one minor nitpick: C<for> is not really a function (AIUI it will
> be in Perl 6, as will be most control structure) but a keyword, with
> special syntax and special semantics: in other words, you could not
> implement it as a sub.
Of course 'for' is a keyword. It was the 'reverse' that I was looking at,
along with the aliasing. I thnik this little script illuminates the point:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
my $last = 10;
my $first = 5;
for my $this_element(reverse $first..$last) {
print "$this_element \n";
}
__END__
...continuing reading. I looked at pattern matching last night. Powerful
stuff.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:26:13 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <6fydnYcBvfkQgjTbnZ2dnUVZ_qainZ2d@comcast.com>
"Michele Dondi" <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:cgqha3d2l9mr5hsj2dsnegsq6u9t5aojl3@4ax.com...
> I'm trying one last time: in the posts in which this "issue" started I
> was merely answering to the author of the parent post. I left in
> previous quotations to show that he was answering to someone else who
> was possibly answering someone else again. In case it would have been
> important to know *the identity*, *name* or *nick* of those other
> persons, I would have left in the attributions: if they weren't there
> in the first place I may have gone so far as rebuilding them. If it
> were even more strictly important, I may have gone as far as adopting
> an effective quoting style, like
I think I'm competing for attention of people with perl expertise. This
attribution-flame stuff would make any reasonable person avoid this thread.
Take it somewhere else or just drop it.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:32:50 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <r9GdnaTw98uHvDTbnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Michele Dondi" <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:6biha3ha5n13nv395qpepjlgb37md758fl@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:15 -0400, Sherm Pendley
> <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote:
>
>>>>for (i = $last; i >= $first; -- i) {}
>>>
>>> (incidentally, this *may* be valid Perl code, if i is a suitable sub,
>>> but much more probably you meant $i instead of i.)
>>
>>It would also be a good idea to make the loop counter $i a lexical:
>>
>> for (my $i = $last; $i >= $first; $i--) {}
I realized that after I posted. It was half C, half Perl.
> Yeah! And for completeness the way to make the idea suggested above
> work:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -l
>
> use strict;
> use warnings;
>
> {
> my $i;
> sub i () : lvalue { $i }
> }
>
> my ($last, $first)=(7,2);
> for (i = $last; i >= $first; -- i) {
> print i;
> }
>
> __END__
>
> (Not that there's any good reason to try this, except of course
> fun...)
This shows a more compact assignment than I had with
> my ($last, $first)=(7,2);
> {
> my $i;
> sub i () : lvalue { $i }
> }
How does this not have a name?
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:49:34 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <b9-dnTonoJubuDTbnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Michele Dondi" <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote in message
news:vu2ha3dvi6at3gfafce8spe1npase1d0j3@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:40:34 -0700, "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Smithers shows up with flames on his back while the old fart holds running
>>water and doesn't choose to intervene.
>
> Please don't spoil for people like me who is likely to have a year or
> more to wait before seeing the show.
I met Matt Groening's cousin while I lived in St. Paul. She says that
people in the cartoon are plucked right out of the family, and it was just
obvious, like the chain-smoking in-laws. She was afraid to go to family
reunions because she didn't want to end up as some unflattering character in
his cartoons. I think it's one of the few productions that's lasted as long
as it has while maintaining quality.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:21:48 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <slrnfai7js.fms.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Mike Hartsough <michaellhartsough@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> I saw no proof offered by Michele Dondi nor Tad McClellan, who decided
> to join in rather than point out the Posting Guidelines,
Specifically because the Jsut troll deserves no better.
(ie. this poster has a history here)
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:54:10 GMT
From: "Mike Hartsough" <michaellhartsough@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <Smbqi.11191$eY.2180@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net>
Michele Dondi wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:49:00 -0700, "Mike Hartsough"
> <michaellhartsough@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[snip]
> > making about your quoting attributions? He even quoted the posting
>
> Very very little, trust me. Perhaps was it a reasonable, respectful
> person,
You were asked nicely by a two people, so where was the problem?
> I may have considered seconding its request: because as I
> already wrote, nobody ever complained with me for not quoting
> properly, except two other persons now who didn't really "complain"
> either, but just joined the discussion to support his point, one of
> which being you.
So what? Is it impossible to just be pleasant and make a better example
of how to handle things? I.e., "A: Please attribute your quotes. B: Ok,
I will try, thank you." What was stopping you from responding in such a
way?
> Well, you know, I hardly ever mention the posting guidelines nor
> direct people towards them: you can check by searching my past posts.
I did, and you have on many occasions directed people to them:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=&num=100&hl=en&as_epq=posting+guidelines&as_uauthors=Michele+Dondi
> Also, guidelines are guidelines. Not the Law.
Agreed, but the point is, many regulars expect everyone else to follow
them as much as possible. The point is, you were asked nicely to
attribute your quotes and rather than behave diplomatic, you made a big
fuss, despite your stance being incorrect.
Regards
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:57:43 -0700
From: TonyV <kingskippus@gmail.com>
Subject: Assignments with $_ using substitution
Message-Id: <1185487063.977009.59250@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>
Hi all,
If I want to assign the result of a substitution in $_ to a variable,
I can do something like this:
foreach (@foo) {
if (m/old text/) {
($a = $_) =~ s/old/new/; # Assign 'new text' to $a
}
# Do more stuff...
}
Of course, one of the nice things about using $_ is that it is the
default variable used in operations such as matches and
substitutions. I'd like to be able to do something like this instead:
foreach (@foo) {
if (m/old text/) {
$a = s/old/new/; # This does not work
}
# Do more stuff...
}
What's happening is that the substitution is occurring in $_ and the
number of substitutions (1, in this case) is being assigned to $a. Is
there some more elegant way to assign the result of the substitution
to $a without explicitly assigning $_ to it?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:15:10 GMT
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Assignments with $_ using substitution
Message-Id: <O19qi.7697$jC4.2558@trndny09>
TonyV wrote:
> foreach (@foo) {
> if (m/old text/) {
> $a = s/old/new/; # This does not work
> }
> # Do more stuff...
> }
>
> What's happening is that the substitution is occurring in $_ and the
> number of substitutions (1, in this case) is being assigned to $a. Is
> there some more elegant way to assign the result of the substitution
> to $a without explicitly assigning $_ to it?
Hmmm, well, you can execute the substitution on a different variable by
using the binding operator.
$a =~ s/old/new/;
Details see 'perldoc perlop'
That is not exactly what you asked for, but I think it is what you meant to
ask. My appologies if I interpreted your question the wrong way and you were
actually asking for an explicit assignment.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:10:51 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Assignments with $_ using substitution
Message-Id: <5gso67F3gi05pU1@mid.individual.net>
TonyV wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> If I want to assign the result of a substitution in $_ to a variable,
> I can do something like this:
>
> foreach (@foo) {
> if (m/old text/) {
> ($a = $_) =~ s/old/new/; # Assign 'new text' to $a
> }
> # Do more stuff...
> }
>
> Of course, one of the nice things about using $_ is that it is the
> default variable used in operations such as matches and
> substitutions. I'd like to be able to do something like this instead:
>
> foreach (@foo) {
> if (m/old text/) {
> $a = s/old/new/; # This does not work
> }
> # Do more stuff...
> }
>
> What's happening is that the substitution is occurring in $_ and the
> number of substitutions (1, in this case) is being assigned to $a. Is
> there some more elegant way to assign the result of the substitution
> to $a without explicitly assigning $_ to it?
Don't think so.
($a = $_) =~ s/old/new/;
is a short form of
$a = $_;
$a =~ s/old/new/;
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:24:30 -0400
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: fork command.
Message-Id: <m2hcnqq2nl.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On 26 Jul 2007 11:29:14 GMT anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de wrote:
a> rajendra <rajendra.prasad@in.bosch.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>> The perl documentation says the fork command generates two copies of the
>> program ,one parent and one child.
>> If this is correct,can this fork command be used for multitasking?.
a> Yes, that is its very purpose.
I usually point people to the Stevens books (Advanced Programming in the
Unix Environment 2nd ed., especially) or some equivalent tutorial,
whenever they ask about fork(). I think using fork() requires
understanding the way it works on the OS level--at least IPC and IO
stream behavior, if nothing else.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:26:49 GMT
From: "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)" <dformosa@usyd.edu.au>
Subject: Re: I am giving up perl because of assholes on clpm -- switching to Python
Message-Id: <slrnfai1c2.219.dformosa@localhost.localdomain>
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.lang.perl.misc.]
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:38:34 -0700, Paul Boddie <paul@boddie.org.uk> wrote:
[...]
> you'd show off your community a bit
> better by entertaining even the most naive questions - people have to
> start somewhere, you know.
However asking a good question doesn't take that much skill. And if
you have come to a p* language as your nth programing language then
you should have had developed thouse skills. Indeed its a basic skill
that anyone who regards themselves as technologically litrate should
develop.
I have found that often the prerequisite steps for asking a question,
working out exactly what behavour I desire, the behavour I'm seeing
and then isolating the code to a minimum required to express the
problem, often helps me solve the problem before I even have to post.
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jul 2007 13:43:26 -0700
From: Paul Rubin <http://phr.cx@NOSPAM.invalid>
Subject: Re: I am giving up perl because of assholes on clpm -- switching to Python
Message-Id: <7x4pjq7v69.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
M
brad <byte8bits@gmail.com> writes:
> Out of the pan and into the fire. :) Welcome to the world of Ph.D's in
> Computer Science. You think the Perl guys have attitude, just wait and
> see what you're in for over here. I think you'll find attitudes in any
> programming language... just different types. May God have mercy on
> your soul! You'll be making a similar announcement in a few weeks when
> you switch to Ruby :) The cold, cruel theoretical, lofty Python will
> mercilessly crush you :)
Come over to comp.lang.functional sometime. I thought I was hardcore
but my brain is not big enough for that newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:33:07 -0400
From: brad <byte8bits@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: I am giving up perl because of assholes on clpm -- switching to Python
Message-Id: <f8b0gs$4rp$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
Martha_Jones@tx.net wrote:
> Python is a better language, with php support, anyway, but I am fed up
> with attitudes of comp.lang.perl.misc. Assholes in this newsgroup ruin
> Perl experience for everyone. Instead of being helpful, snide remarks,
> back-biting, scare tactings, and so on proliferate and self
> reinforce. All honest people have left this sad newsgroup. Buy bye,
> assholes, I am not going to miss you!!!
>
> Martha
Out of the pan and into the fire. :) Welcome to the world of Ph.D's in
Computer Science. You think the Perl guys have attitude, just wait and
see what you're in for over here. I think you'll find attitudes in any
programming language... just different types. May God have mercy on your
soul! You'll be making a similar announcement in a few weeks when you
switch to Ruby :) The cold, cruel theoretical, lofty Python will
mercilessly crush you :)
I'm just joking, OK.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:13:27 -0700
From: James <djcameron60616@yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking to do work with DNS through Perl
Message-Id: <1185495207.709821.112230@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com>
Hello,
I'm not terribly new to Perl, I have some basics down. What I don't
have down is finding a way to do what I want for a particular script.
What I am looking to do is to query DNS servers on both Win32 and
UNIX, to get a list of all servers in the network ranges we have.
For example,
lets say I have a 10. network and a 130. network, with several subnets
and VPN's. I want a script to go out and:
(This is where this post comes in handy)
A. Query all DNS servers in the domains, in all the networks and
either grab zone files or host files,
B. Authenticate into each server and run several subroutines to query
information on the current server,
C .. A whole bunch of other stuff.
The problems are:
A I don't know the particular nameservers at this time (unfortunately
the company doen't let you do ping sweeps or run sam-spade type tools
on the networks)
B. I don't have access to all servers at this time.
Is it possible to get DNS server names from domain controllers, or
just a nslookup on the main domains?
If I don't have access to the DNS servers, is it possible to extract
the information through ADS?
Is it also possible to get the DNS information (in full) - all servers
in DNS, if I don't have access to the nameserver?
I'm pretty new to windows, and if I had access to the other platforms
I'd have no problem getting the information. I essentially have to
write the tools myself.
Thanks-
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 686
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