[29431] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 675 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jul 24 00:10:09 2007
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 23 Jul 2007 Volume: 11 Number: 675
Today's topics:
Re: @arts <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall>
Re: @arts <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: @arts <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@gmail.com>
Re: @arts <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall>
Re: @arts <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: @arts <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: @arts <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: @arts <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net>
Re: @arts <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: @arts <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Re: FAQ 4.45 How do I find the first array element for <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:46:43 -0700
From: "Vronans" <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <eNudnd1v_M1WvDjbnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d@wavecable.com>
Michele Dondi wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:12:59 -0700, "Vronans"
> <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall> wrote:
>> "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in message
>> news:2J6dnRlDn_V7KD7bnZ2dnUVZ_v2unZ2d@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Tad McClellan" <tadmc@seesig.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:slrnfa7b6f.siu.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net...
>>> Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote:
(Please don't leave quotes without their *applicable* attributions.)
>> (Please don't leave quotes without their applicable attributions.)
>
> Why not?
Because it's the proper thing to do (considing you and others are
sometimes pushing posting etiquette, but it doesn't apply to you,
right?)
Also, it just plain makes things more difficult to follow in general.
>>>>>> Please share your knowledge with me then.
>>>>> Believe it or not, I didn't start this thread to look like an
>>>>> idiot, although I seem to have achieved this.
>
> Not hard to know recognize the last two lines as Merril's: how strange
> that he recognizes having acted like an idiot in the first place,
> before you poo^Hpped out of hammerspace to "defend" him...
Yes, because that how he felt was being treated, and you only confirmed
it:
Michele Dondi wrote:
<ua09a3de7q76umtils6ae1fqht2r58a2e9@4ax.com>
[[
> Well, being admittedly barely beyond the hello world level, asking
for
> ready made code, and evidently wanting to understand it without
prior
> knowledge of basic Perl somewhat justifies that.
]]
There wouldn't be a reason to defend if there wasn't something to defend
from.
>>> Well, being admittedly barely beyond the hello world level, asking
>>> for ready made code, and evidently wanting to understand it without
>>> prior knowledge of basic Perl somewhat justifies that.
>>
>> You don't know his level of knowledge. He may certainly be new to
>> Perl,
>
> I *do* know his level of knowledge: I didn't come out of the factory
> with full Perl knowledge preinstalled. I had to learn it. So I have
> been at that level before. And I'm still learning. Strangely enough,
> I've learnt more from the dirty bastards known as the regulars here
> than from anyone else.
Yet you join in with the "dirty bastards"... this is akin to a victim
growing up to become a bully (though in your case I'd say to a lesser
extent, but rooted in the same syndrome nonetheless.)
>> that doesn't make him incompetent, and simply being a beginner does
>> NOT justify treating people like idiots, and in fact you've perfectly
>
> In fact it doesn't seem to me that he treated people like idiots,
> well: not here. In fact he was always very kind and polite.
>
>> demonstrated the real problem in this group.
>
> Yeah, it's been said before. You all ranters should join and make a
> party.
You mean like your "elitist" party?
>>> I addressed all three points. Anyway, some knowledge of *basic* Perl
>>> wouldn't have raised the one you're stressing.
>>
>> I never said you didn't. But seeing as you snipped the attribution
>> (reinserted) which would of made that clear...
>
> I never said you said I didn't.
You clearly implied it, and my response in the segment was directed at
someone else (again, the attributions make that clear... when you don't
snip them.)
>>>>>> Which one of those looks like @arts to you?
>>>>
>>>> You missed his point entirely (see quoted text from OP's original
>>>> post.)
>>>
>>> No, he didn't, quoted text from the OP's OP notwithstanding.
>>
>> Oh so now you admit I wasn't addressing you. How nice of you.
> And Tad didn't miss the point: you're acting much like those students
> who have done a wrong exercise and go to the teacher to say: "but you
> didn't understand my reasononing..." Whatever... if the result is
> wrong, it's wrong. Basic logic, basic logic. No matter what Merril's
> reasoning was: @arts looks like no predefined array variable.
More like, it's when a teacher refuses to admit they miss-understood
something the student brought up, and throw out any rational which seems
to work for them.
>>> It just doesn't "look like" any (array) special variable:
>>> cum grano salis, obvioulsy - because "to look like" is
>>> subjective.
>>
>> So what? Why would it REALLY matter if it doesn't look like a special
>> variable to any of us who know better? He didn't know, to him, the
>> way
>
> Well, I wrote "cum grano salis", just to be safe: but I bet even my
> mom would not find @arts NOT to look like any of the predefined array
> variables... Please adopt some grains of salt too!
I don't remember anyone saying it looked like a predefined var, only a
"special" var, which could be different things. Again, get off the high
horse and come back down to earth and try to see things through the OP's
eyes. If you've NEVER seen such a construct like the one given before it
may look special. I don't know why you cannot understand that.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:51:48 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <claaa3h1oo77ua1b30tu3jj4hov2frttqf@4ax.com>
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:46:43 -0700, "Vronans"
<vronans@nowheresville.spamwall> wrote:
>Because it's the proper thing to do (considing you and others are
>sometimes pushing posting etiquette, but it doesn't apply to you,
>right?)
Well, NO-body has ever complained in several years, and I can't
remember anybody considering my posts hard to read because of bad
netiquette. So I won't do what you suggest unless there's a compelling
reason to do so, e.g. precisely track who's saying what.
>> Not hard to know recognize the last two lines as Merril's: how strange
>> that he recognizes having acted like an idiot in the first place,
>> before you poo^Hpped out of hammerspace to "defend" him...
>
>Yes, because that how he felt was being treated, and you only confirmed
>it:
>
>Michele Dondi wrote:
><ua09a3de7q76umtils6ae1fqht2r58a2e9@4ax.com>
>[[
> > Well, being admittedly barely beyond the hello world level, asking
>for
> > ready made code, and evidently wanting to understand it without
>prior
> > knowledge of basic Perl somewhat justifies that.
>]]
>
>There wouldn't be a reason to defend if there wasn't something to defend
>from.
So why didn't he feel the same himself and in some way apologized for
having acted like an idiot instead? And since you're the self
proclaimed Zorro of clmpmisc, would you explain *what*, precisely,
should he be defended from?
I'm just expressing a judgment, and I'm not talking in absolute terms:
e.g. "you're *certainly* an idiot". I'm saying that a certain
behaviour *somewhat* (a word which you quote with great precision but
with which you don't seem to be particularly familiar) justifies the
fact that a person can be considered an idiot. And I'm convinced about
that! I support my claim indeed.
Still I didn't say anything false about our friend Merrill, in fact he
himself claimed to be IN HIS OWN WORDS "barely beyond hello world", he
himself DID ask for ready made code, trying to make it work in some
manner. So did I say anything false just to insult?
I already wrote in another post in another thread, that my judgement
is that his chosen path for learning is not a good one. One should get
familiar at least with a bare minimum of Perl first. Hello world is
not enough, period.
>Yet you join in with the "dirty bastards"... this is akin to a victim
>growing up to become a bully (though in your case I'd say to a lesser
>extent, but rooted in the same syndrome nonetheless.)
No, no, one of the worst cases... I've been *terrorized* for years
(you know, nightmares and all) till I joined them and I was happy
again!!
>> Yeah, it's been said before. You all ranters should join and make a
>> party.
>
>You mean like your "elitist" party?
Yeah, but of opposite sign: don't forget it!
>> Well, I wrote "cum grano salis", just to be safe: but I bet even my
>> mom would not find @arts NOT to look like any of the predefined array
>> variables... Please adopt some grains of salt too!
>
>I don't remember anyone saying it looked like a predefined var, only a
>"special" var, which could be different things. Again, get off the high
Ok, please explain me what a special var is that is not a predefined
var, because then I don't know. The meaning of "predefined variable"
is well defined... that of "special variable"... I don't have the
slightest idea.
>horse and come back down to earth and try to see things through the OP's
>eyes. If you've NEVER seen such a construct like the one given before it
>may look special. I don't know why you cannot understand that.
First I would have to understand what "special" means in this context.
And no, I can't think of myself as a very beginner finding
my (undef, $first, $last, undef)=$nntp->group($grp)
or die "Can't access $grp\n";
"normal" and
my ($since, @arts)=time-10*60*60;
"special". Either both or probably none.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:53:29 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <b9caa3pte5bgud1n4d5o2k8t2la9mn33ic@4ax.com>
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:17:34 +0000 (UTC), pacman@TheWorld.com (Alan
Curry) wrote:
>Actually I think that does add readability. With the original, if you're
>interested in the initial value of @arts, you have to mentally parse the time
>expression first, just to find out there's nothing there initializing @arts.
>
>Here's another variation:
>
>my ($since, @arts)=(time-10*60*60, ());
>
>This way there's a clear correspondence of terms on the left and right, and
>the empty parentheses correspond to @arts, and you still got it packed all in
>one statement.
Unfortunately my religion would prhibit me from doing so. Moreover, it
would make me suspect with some apprehension I've switched to lisp.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:52:00 -0000
From: Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <1185234720.411523.274350@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
On Jul 23, 6:53 pm, Michele Dondi <bik.m...@tiscalinet.it> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:17:34 +0000 (UTC), pac...@TheWorld.com (Alan
>
> Curry) wrote:
> >Actually I think that does add readability. With the original, if you're
> >interested in the initial value of @arts, you have to mentally parse the time
> >expression first, just to find out there's nothing there initializing @arts.
>
> >Here's another variation:
>
> >my ($since, @arts)=(time-10*60*60, ());
>
> >This way there's a clear correspondence of terms on the left and right, and
> >the empty parentheses correspond to @arts, and you still got it packed all in
> >one statement.
>
> Unfortunately my religion would prhibit me from doing so. Moreover, it
> would make me suspect with some apprehension I've switched to lisp.
I can't connect to comcast now, so I'm posting at the library through
the google portal. I hope that this doesn't change my identity in a
distracting way. Here is the script in question:
my @arts; #array declaration
my $since = time - (10*60*60);
for (reverse $first..$last) {
#for (my $i = $first; $i <= $last; $i--){
my %hdr=map /^(\S[^:]+):\s(.*)$/g, @{$nntp->head($_)};
defined(my $date=$hdr{'NNTP-Posting-Date'}) or next;
defined(my $time=str2time $date)
or warn "Couldn't parse date for article $_ ($date)\n"
and next;
last if $time < $since;
unshift @arts, $_;
}
$nntp->article($_,\*STDOUT) for @arts;
__END__
I was trying to pick apart the control mechanism to ascertain
details from the above. Are these statements equivalent:
for (reverse $first..$last) {
for (my $i = $first; $i <= $last; $i--){
? My reference shows only the three part 'for' syntax. If I leave
out the reverse, I get no output at all.
It appears that the only thing going to STDOUT is @arts. What
dimensions does @arts have? I don't think the compiler can know in
advance. I would think that one dimension of @arts would have to be
the difference between $first and $last. There's a lot more
wiggleroom in perl's syntax than say, fortran, where this might be the
equivalent:
real, dimension(:), allocatable :: arts
read *, n
allocate(arts(n))
:
deallocate(arts)
Am I correct that each entry of @arts contains an entire usenet
message?
--
Wade Ward
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:07:40 -0700
From: "Vronans" <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <pqmdnTLSUvdM3zjbnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@wavecable.com>
Michele Dondi wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:46:43 -0700, "Vronans"
> <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall> wrote:
>
>> Because it's the proper thing to do (considing you and others are
>> sometimes pushing posting etiquette, but it doesn't apply to you,
>> right?)
>
> Well, NO-body has ever complained in several years, and I can't
> remember anybody considering my posts hard to read because of bad
> netiquette. So I won't do what you suggest unless there's a compelling
> reason to do so, e.g. precisely track who's saying what.
It seems others are able to properly attribute their quotes and I've
seen not-so-regular people asked to do exactly as I've asked you (when
they quote without giving information as to who said it.) Yet you've
once again proven that the regulars are above what they preach.
>>> Not hard to know recognize the last two lines as Merril's: how
>>> strange that he recognizes having acted like an idiot in the first
>>> place, before you poo^Hpped out of hammerspace to "defend" him...
To whom belongs the above quote?
>> Yes, because that how he felt was being treated, and you only
>> confirmed it:
>>
>> Michele Dondi wrote:
>> <ua09a3de7q76umtils6ae1fqht2r58a2e9@4ax.com>
>> [[
>> > Well, being admittedly barely beyond the hello world level, asking
>> for
>> > ready made code, and evidently wanting to understand it without
>> prior
>> > knowledge of basic Perl somewhat justifies that.
>> ]]
>>
>> There wouldn't be a reason to defend if there wasn't something to
>> defend from.
>
> So why didn't he feel the same himself and in some way apologized for
> having acted like an idiot instead?
Cite me an instance where he admits to being an idiot.
>>> Well, I wrote "cum grano salis", just to be safe: but I bet even my
>>> mom would not find @arts NOT to look like any of the predefined
>>> array variables... Please adopt some grains of salt too!
Who wrote this?
>> I don't remember anyone saying it looked like a predefined var, only
>> a "special" var, which could be different things. Again, get off the
>> high
>
> Ok, please explain me what a special var is that is not a predefined
> var, because then I don't know. The meaning of "predefined variable"
> is well defined... that of "special variable"... I don't have the
> slightest idea.
Sigh. Why do you keep (intentionally?) dancing around the point? It's
what the OP seemed to -think- it was. Again, you refuse to try to see
things from HIS perspective, which is a common problem.
>> horse and come back down to earth and try to see things through the
>> OP's eyes. If you've NEVER seen such a construct like the one given
>> before it may look special. I don't know why you cannot understand
>> that.
>
> First I would have to understand what "special" means in this context.
> And no, I can't think of myself as a very beginner finding
Bring your head back above shoulder level and get to me. If you can't
understand that the OP saw it as possibly special from HIS
point-of-view, then please quit while you're ahead because nothing
useful is being added to this thread.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:22:46 GMT
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <slrnfaahn3.iil.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are these statements equivalent:
> for (reverse $first..$last) {
> for (my $i = $first; $i <= $last; $i--){
What values are in $first and $last?
> ? My reference shows only the three part 'for' syntax.
From the "Foreach Loops" section in the *authoritative* reference
(perlsyn.pod):
The C<foreach> keyword is actually a synonym for the C<for> keyword, so
you can use C<foreach> for readability or C<for> for brevity.
> If I leave
> out the reverse, I get no output at all.
Then it must be that $last < $first.
The range operator does not work going backwards.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:22:47 GMT
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <slrnfaaik0.iil.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:12:59 -0700, "Vronans"
><vronans@nowheresville.spamwall> wrote:
>
>>(Please don't leave quotes without their applicable attributions.)
>
> Why not? I was only addressing directly what you wrote, leaving *some*
> quotes just to show, in some cases, that you were replying to someone
> who was replying to someone who wrote something. But I didn't enter in
> a delicate philological argumentation about who precisely wrote what.
>
> Of course I'm false and bastard and deceipt is my most powerful
> weapon: since my priority is to treat newbies like idiots and spread
> lies, there was a secret plot you don't know about... HAHAHA!
I am voting at the next Cabal meeting to have you expelled
for giving away our secrets!
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:22:48 GMT
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <slrnfaak6v.iil.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Vronans <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall> wrote:
> Michele Dondi wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 01:13:01 -0700, "Vronans"
>> <vronans@nowheresville.spamwall> wrote:
>>> "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net> wrote in message
>>> news:2J6dnRlDn_V7KD7bnZ2dnUVZ_v2unZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>> "Tad McClellan" <tadmc@seesig.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> Please share your knowledge with me then.
>>>> Believe it or not, I didn't start this thread to look like an idiot,
>>>> although I seem to have achieved this.
>>> There are some here which chose to treat you as such, rather then
>>
>> Well, being admittedly barely beyond the hello world level, asking for
>> ready made code, and evidently wanting to understand it without prior
>> knowledge of basic Perl somewhat justifies that.
>
> You don't know his level of knowledge.
I know that he didn't read (or maybe just didn't understand) the
first few paragraphs of perldata.pod:
...
Usually this name is a single I<identifier>,
that is, a string beginning with a letter or underscore, and
containing letters, underscores, and digits.
...
Perl also has its own built-in variables whose names don't follow
these rules. They have strange names so they don't accidentally
collide with one of your normal variables.
i.e. built-in variable names never start (after the sigil character)
with a lower case letter.
(except for the 2 exceptions already mentioned in this thread.)
>>> ** There really was no reason to remove that part, unless one is too
>>> busy thinking up their next clever quip.
There was a very carefully thought-out reason for removing
that part. Namely that it was not relevant to the point that
I wanted to make about Perl's variable naming conventions.
> Why would it REALLY matter if it doesn't look like a special
> variable to any of us who know better? He didn't know,
And now he does.
Might it be because I posting a list of all of them, allowing him
to divine for himself (and thus remember better) what built-in variable
names look like?
Leading someone to the answer rather than simply telling them the
answer is an effective teaching method.
Just because I do not give a direct answer to the question that
was asked does not imply the evilness that you convey upon my intents.
> to him, the way
> it was being used (see code quoted directly below), looked special.
My point was that how it was being used is irrelevant, since it
does not follow the naming conventions for built-in variables,
it then follows that it is not special.
> Who
> the hell are you to imply what the OP thought,
Who the hell are you to imply what I thought?
(See? You do it too! We all do. Get used to it.)
> especially when he
> already put such forth, and it was snipped with out any regard.
As explained above, it was snipped with explicitly careful regard.
>>> The root of his problem seems to be with this line:
>>> ==> my ($since, @arts)=time-10*60*60;
The root of the problem in the part I quoted was that @arts does
not start with punctuation or upper case, and is therefore not
a special variable.
>>> This construct doesn't seem to make sense to me,
Me either.
I'd call it crap code.
But I didn't want to talk about the crap code and muddy up the
simple rule that can be used forevermore to distinguish special
variables.
So I snipped it.
> I know it's declared, but the point was why use would it have IN THAT
> PLACE.
None, other than obfuscation (which is Bad in production code).
> others weren't so busy displaying just how much 'higher' then everyone
> you are you may have caught that.
You do me a disservice.
I was not being "higher", I was leading him to education.
>> Yes, the alternative would have been:
>>
>> my $since=time-10*60*60;
>> my @arts;
Which is very much better...
>> which takes more typing, more vertical space, one more statement and
... despite its small cost.
>> doesn't give any more readability.
Removing "startle factor" does indeed increase readability.
Would the OP have had the misunderstandings he evidenced if it
had been written that way? I think not.
Crap code stinks. After sprinkling cologne on it, it still stinks.
(so save the cologne :-)
> Actually I'd wager that it does make it more clearer to more people than
> the previous version.
Indeed.
> OTOH, was has to learn somewhere, though I'm sure how that warrents
> treating someone as inferior.
You are reading in things that are just not there.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:35:16 GMT
From: "Mumia W." <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <oHcpi.9968$rR.9820@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>
On 07/23/2007 06:52 PM, Wade Ward wrote:
> [...]
> It appears that the only thing going to STDOUT is @arts. What
> dimensions does @arts have? [...]
I suggest you learn to walk before you run. You're nowhere near
proficient enough with Perl to consider writing an NNTP client.
Read these Perl documents:
perl
perlintro
perltoc
perlreftut
perldsc
perllol
perlboot
These documents should be available through the ActiveState help menus
and also through the perldoc utility, e.g.
Start->Run->"perldoc perlintro"
You claimed that you started learning Perl two weeks ago. Your questions
are too basic for someone who's been studying Perl for two weeks.
Please spend the next couple of weeks learning Perl, then come back to
your news client.
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc:
http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:46:23 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <m2wswqtvyo.fsf@dot-app.org>
"Mumia W." <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net> writes:
> On 07/23/2007 06:52 PM, Wade Ward wrote:
>> [...]
>> It appears that the only thing going to STDOUT is @arts. What
>> dimensions does @arts have? [...]
>
> I suggest you learn to walk before you run. You're nowhere near
> proficient enough with Perl to consider writing an NNTP client.
...
> You claimed that you started learning Perl two weeks ago. Your
> questions are too basic for someone who's been studying Perl for two
> weeks.
I would say that they're indicatave of someone who's spent two weeks in
way over his head. Grabbing an already-written script and poking about
at random is not a good way to learn anything - even if you do happen to
get the desired results, you haven't established a base upon which to
form an understanding of *how* you got them.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:39:35 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <bt-dnTThk_L1-zjbnZ2dnUVZ_tCrnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Tad McClellan" <tadmc@seesig.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnfaahn3.iil.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net...
> Wade Ward <zaxfuuq@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Are these statements equivalent:
>> for (reverse $first..$last) {
>> for (my $i = $first; $i <= $last; $i--){
>
>
> What values are in $first and $last?
I've got them backwards. They're scalars with $last presumably greater than
or equal to $first. I couldn't test the script because comcast's server was
down when I wrote it.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:40:35 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <SZudnSCDLaY--zjbnZ2dnUVZ_sGvnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Mumia W." <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oHcpi.9968$rR.9820@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> On 07/23/2007 06:52 PM, Wade Ward wrote:
>> [...]
>> It appears that the only thing going to STDOUT is @arts. What
>> dimensions does @arts have? [...]
>
> I suggest you learn to walk before you run. You're nowhere near proficient
> enough with Perl to consider writing an NNTP client.
>
> Read these Perl documents:
>
> perl
> perlintro
> perltoc
>
> perlreftut
> perldsc
> perllol
> perlboot
>
> These documents should be available through the ActiveState help menus and
> also through the perldoc utility, e.g.
> Start->Run->"perldoc perlintro"
>
> You claimed that you started learning Perl two weeks ago. Your questions
> are too basic for someone who's been studying Perl for two weeks.
>
> Please spend the next couple of weeks learning Perl, then come back to
> your news client.
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc:
> http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
Thank you for your reading suggestions.
--
WW
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:45:52 -0700
From: "Wade Ward" <zaxfuuq@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: @arts
Message-Id: <MYydnePkU4J9-jjbnZ2dnUVZ_u2mnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:m2wswqtvyo.fsf@dot-app.org...
> "Mumia W." <paduille.4061.mumia.w+nospam@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>> On 07/23/2007 06:52 PM, Wade Ward wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> It appears that the only thing going to STDOUT is @arts. What
>>> dimensions does @arts have? [...]
>>
>> I suggest you learn to walk before you run. You're nowhere near
>> proficient enough with Perl to consider writing an NNTP client.
>
> ...
>
>> You claimed that you started learning Perl two weeks ago. Your
>> questions are too basic for someone who's been studying Perl for two
>> weeks.
>
> I would say that they're indicatave of someone who's spent two weeks in
> way over his head. Grabbing an already-written script and poking about
> at random is not a good way to learn anything - even if you do happen to
> get the desired results, you haven't established a base upon which to
> form an understanding of *how* you got them.
I'm not considering writing an nntp client. As far as I'm concerned, I just
wrote one. But you're right that I'm going to take a couple steps backward
right now.
--
Wade Ward
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:22:35 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: FAQ 4.45 How do I find the first array element for which a condition is true?
Message-Id: <n8aaa3h52hgel434o7lhf06lg955lf6fpm@4ax.com>
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:42:12 +0200, Martijn Lievaart
<m@rtij.nl.invlalid> wrote:
>> Unfortunately List::Util::first is slightly broken. I returns an
^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^
>> undefined value when there is no first element, either because the
>> condition never matched or because the list to search is empty in the
>> first place. It should return empty in this case. As it is, if the
>
>I think undef is perfectly acceptable in both cases. Besides, what kind
>of scalar is "empty"?
Nope, it is broken, *slightly* broken as in: only corner cases will be
affected, but it is:
C:\temp>perl -MList::Util=first -le "(my ($f)=first {!$_} qw/a b c/)
and print '
false value found'"
false value found
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 675
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