[29067] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 311 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Apr 6 03:09:59 2007
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 00:09:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 6 Apr 2007 Volume: 11 Number: 311
Today's topics:
[ANNOUNCE] Emacs modules for Perl programming (Jari Aalto+mail.perl)
Re: Any good Perl coders out there? <bartthebear@gmail.com>
Cant run index.pl <hackeras@gmail.com>
Re: Cant run index.pl <hackeras@gmail.com>
Re: Cant run index.pl <hackeras@gmail.com>
Re: Cant run index.pl <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: How to Optimize the Pattern Matching search <tadmc@augustmail.com>
new CPAN modules on Fri Apr 6 2007 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: perl OOP <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: perl OOP <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: perl OOP <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: perl system command <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 06 Apr 2007 04:24:43 GMT
From: <jari.aalto@poboxes.com> (Jari Aalto+mail.perl)
Subject: [ANNOUNCE] Emacs modules for Perl programming
Message-Id: <perl-faq/emacs-lisp-modules_1175833460@rtfm.mit.edu>
Archive-name: perl-faq/emacs-lisp-modules
Posting-Frequency: 2 times a month
Maintainer: Jari Aalto A T cante net
Announcement: "What Emacs lisp modules can help with programming Perl"
Preface
Emacs is your friend if you have to do anything comcerning software
development: It offers plug-in modules, written in Emacs lisp
(elisp) language, that makes all your programmings wishes come
true. Please introduce yourself to Emacs and your programming era
will get a new light.
Where to find Emacs/XEmacs
o Unix:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs.html
http://www.xemacs.org/
o Unix Windows port (for Unix die-hards):
install http://www.cygwin.com/ which includes native Emacs 21.x.
and XEmacs port
o Pure Native Windows port
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html
ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/windows/setup.exe
o More Emacs resources at
http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/ => Emacs resource page
Emacs Perl Modules
Cperl -- Perl programming mode
http://math.berkeley.edu/~ilya/software/emacs/
by Ilya Zakharevich
CPerl is major mode for editing perl files. Also included in
latest Emacs, but newest version is at Ilya's site. Note that
the directrory at CPAN is out of date:
http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-authors/id/ILYAZ/cperl-mode/
Compared to default `perl-mode' that comes with Emacs, this
one has more features.
TinyPerl -- Perl related utilities
http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/
If you ever wonder how to deal with Perl POD pages or how to find
documentation from all perl manpages, this package is for you.
Couple of keystrokes and all the documentaion is in your hands.
o Instant function help: See documentation of `shift', `pop'...
o Show Perl manual pages in *pod* buffer
o Grep through all Perl manpages (.pod)
o Follow POD references e.g. [perlre] to next pod with RETURN
o Coloured pod pages with `font-lock'
o Separate `tiperl-pod-view-mode' for jumping topics and pages
forward and backward in *pod* buffer.
o Update `$VERSION' variable with YYYY.MMDD on save.
o Load source code into Emacs, like Devel::DProf.pm
o Prepare script (version numbering) and Upload it to PAUSE
o Generate autoload STUBS (Devel::SelfStubber) for you
Perl Module (.pm)
TinyIgrep -- Perl Code browsing and easy grepping
[TinyIgrep is included in Tiny Tools Kit]
To grep from all installed Perl modules, define database to
TinyIgrep. There is example file emacs-rc-tinyigrep.el that shows
how to set up dattabases for Perl5, Perl4 whatever you have
installed
TinyIgrep calls Igrep.el to to do the search, You can adjust
recursive grep options, set search case sensitivity, add user grep
options etc.
You can find latest `igrep.el' module at
<http://groups.google.com/groups?group=gnu.emacs.sources> The
maintainer is Jefin Rodgers <kevinr@ihs.com>.
TinyCompile -- To Browse grep results in Emacs *compile* buffer
TinyCompile is a minor mode for *compile* buffer from where
you can collapse unwanted lines or shorten file URLs:
/asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
/asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/file2:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
-->
cd /asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/
file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
End
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2007 07:17:41 +0200
From: Bart The Bear <bartthebear@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Any good Perl coders out there?
Message-Id: <pan.2007.04.06.05.17.32@gmail.com>
On Mon, 02 Apr 2007 07:18:10 -0500, Tad McClellan wrote:
> I agree that this OP was treated poorly.
Actually, I disagree. He posted the same question on perl.dbi.users,
which is known as multi-posting and is one of my pet peeves. I am
sorry to have responded and translated the script there. He apparently
hasn't even looked there. Good knows where else did he post the question.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Apr 2007 20:17:57 -0700
From: "=?iso-8859-7?B?zd/q7/I=?=" <hackeras@gmail.com>
Subject: Cant run index.pl
Message-Id: <1175829477.815387.229990@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>
Rm9yIHNvbWUgcmVhc29uIHdoZW4gaSB0cnkgdG8gcnVuIGluZGV4LnBsIGkgZ2V0IHRoaXMgZXJy
b3I6CgpbRnJpIEFwciAwNiAwNjoxNDowOCAyMDA3XSBbZXJyb3JdIFtjbGllbnQgMTAuMC4wLjJd
IChPUyAzKdTvIPP98/Tn7OEK5OXtIOXf7eHpIPPlIOjd8+cg7eEg5e307/Df8+XpIPTn7SDq4ejv
8enz7N3t5yDk6eHk8e/s3iDk3/Pq7/UuICA6CmNvdWxkbid0IGNyZWF0ZSBjaGlsZCBwcm9jZXNz
OiA3MjAwMDM6IGluZGV4LnBsLCByZWZlcmVyOiBodHRwOi8vZGVsbC8KCgppIGRvbnQga293IHdo
eS4gcGVybCAtYyBpbmRleC5wbCBzYXlzIHRoZSBzY3JpcHQgaXRzIG9rLiBteXNxbCBhbmQgYWxs
Cm90aGVyIG1vZHVsZXMgYXJlIGxvYWRlZCBjb3JyZWN0bHkuCgpBbnkgaWRlYSB3aHkgaXQgd29u
dCB3b3JrPwo=
------------------------------
Date: 5 Apr 2007 21:11:18 -0700
From: "=?iso-8859-7?B?zd/q7/I=?=" <hackeras@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cant run index.pl
Message-Id: <1175832678.448849.273240@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
Cs8vxyDN3+rv8iDd4/Hh+OU6Cj4gRm9yIHNvbWUgcmVhc29uIHdoZW4gaSB0cnkgdG8gcnVuIGlu
ZGV4LnBsIGkgZ2V0IHRoaXMgZXJyb3I6Cj4KPiBbRnJpIEFwciAwNiAwNjoxNDowOCAyMDA3XSBb
ZXJyb3JdIFtjbGllbnQgMTAuMC4wLjJdIChPUyAzKdTvIPP98/Tn7OEKPiDk5e0g5d/t4ekg8+Ug
6N3z5yDt4SDl7fTv8N/z5ekg9OftIOrh6O/x6fPs3e3nIOTp4eTx7+zeIOTf8+rv9S4gIDoKPiBj
b3VsZG4ndCBjcmVhdGUgY2hpbGQgcHJvY2VzczogNzIwMDAzOiBpbmRleC5wbCwgcmVmZXJlcjog
aHR0cDovL2RlbGwvCj4KPgo+IGkgZG9udCBrb3cgd2h5LiBwZXJsIC1jIGluZGV4LnBsIHNheXMg
dGhlIHNjcmlwdCBpdHMgb2suIG15c3FsIGFuZCBhbGwKPiBvdGhlciBtb2R1bGVzIGFyZSBsb2Fk
ZWQgY29ycmVjdGx5Lgo+Cj4gQW55IGlkZWEgd2h5IGl0IHdvbnQgd29yaz8KCmFuZCB5ZXMgaSBk
byBoYXZlICMhL3Vzci9iaW4vcGVybCAtdyBhdCB1cHBlciBmaXJzdCBsaW5lCg==
------------------------------
Date: 5 Apr 2007 21:30:50 -0700
From: "=?iso-8859-7?B?zd/q7/I=?=" <hackeras@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cant run index.pl
Message-Id: <1175833850.806842.67580@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
The web server iam runnig is located at http://nikos.no-ip.org and i
ahve the apache directive registry also on.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 22:45:48 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: Cant run index.pl
Message-Id: <cd3he4xvdn.ln2@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
On 2007-04-06, Νίκος <hackeras@gmail.com> wrote:
> For some reason when i try to run index.pl i get this error:
>
> [Fri Apr 06 06:14:08 2007] [error] [client 10.0.0.2] (OS 3)Το σύστημα
> δεν είναι σε θέση να εντοπίσει την καθορισμένη διαδρομή δίσκου. :
> couldn't create child process: 720003: index.pl, referer: http://dell/
Since you give almost no helpful information at all, it'll be hard for
anybody to tell you, but my gut tells me it is a web server
configuration problem, and is therefore likely not on-topic for this
newsgroup. Post a decent problem description to an appropriate forum
for your particular web server.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:27:32 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: How to Optimize the Pattern Matching search
Message-Id: <slrnf1bc0k.grq.tadmc@tadmc30.august.net>
m.muthukareem@gmail.com <m.muthukareem@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Sub: I need an idea about, To optimize the search of function
> declaration present in two different source.
>
>
> I have collected the function declarations from c program headers on
> two different operating system.
Then you don't need help with pattern matching.
Why does your subject mention it then?
> Now, i have to look for absence of
> all functions declaration in any given application w.r.t. other
> operating system.
From the Perl FAQ:
How do I compute the difference of two arrays? How do I compute the
intersection of two arrays?
Use a hash. Hereβs code to do both and more. It assumes that each eleβ
ment is unique in a given array:
@union = @intersection = @difference = ();
%count = ();
foreach $element (@array1, @array2) { $count{$element}++ }
foreach $element (keys %count) {
push @union, $element;
push @{ $count{$element} > 1 ? \@intersection : \@difference }, $ele
ment;
}
Note that this is the symmetric difference, that is, all elements in
either A or in B but not in both. Think of it as an xor operation.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 04:42:12 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Fri Apr 6 2007
Message-Id: <JG27qC.20AM@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-POE-Acronym-Generator-0.99
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/Acme-POE-Acronym-Generator-0.99/
Generate random POE acronyms.
----
Acme-POE-Acronym-Generator-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/Acme-POE-Acronym-Generator-1.00/
Generate random POE acronyms.
----
BBS-Perm-v0.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~sunnavy/BBS-Perm-v0.0.3/
a component for your own BBS client
----
CGI-Application-Plugin-Config-IniFiles-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~arto/CGI-Application-Plugin-Config-IniFiles-0.01/
Add Config::IniFiles support to CGI::Application.
----
CGI-Ex-2.09
http://search.cpan.org/~rhandom/CGI-Ex-2.09/
CGI utility suite - makes powerful application writing fun and easy
----
Crypt-OpenSSL-CA-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~domq/Crypt-OpenSSL-CA-0.09/
The crypto parts of an X509v3 Certification Authority
----
Crypt-OpenSSL-CA-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~domq/Crypt-OpenSSL-CA-0.11/
The crypto parts of an X509v3 Certification Authority
----
Data-RuledValidator-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~ktat/Data-RuledValidator-0.10/
data validator with rule
----
Data-RuledValidator-Plugin-Japanese-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~ktat/Data-RuledValidator-Plugin-Japanese-0.03/
Data::RuledValidator plugin for Japanese
----
Data-URIEncode-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~rhandom/Data-URIEncode-0.11/
Allow complex data structures to be encoded using flat URIs.
----
Dir-Project-3.002
http://search.cpan.org/~wsnyder/Dir-Project-3.002/
Project Environment determination
----
FLV-Info-0.18
http://search.cpan.org/~cdolan/FLV-Info-0.18/
Extract metadata from Macromedia Flash Video files
----
Form-Processor-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~hank/Form-Processor-0.03/
validate and process form data
----
Form-Processor-Model-CDBI-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~hank/Form-Processor-Model-CDBI-0.03/
model class for Form::Processor based on Class::DBI
----
Fortran-Namelist-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~vms/Fortran-Namelist-0.10/
Perl extension for Fortran namelists
----
IPC-Locker-1.463
http://search.cpan.org/~wsnyder/IPC-Locker-1.463/
Distributed lock handler
----
JSON-Any-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~cthom/JSON-Any-1.01/
Wrapper Class for the various JSON classes.
----
JSON-Any-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~cthom/JSON-Any-1.02/
Wrapper Class for the various JSON classes.
----
JSON-Any-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~cthom/JSON-Any-1.03/
Wrapper Class for the various JSON classes.
----
Locale-Maketext-Pseudo-v0.0.3
http://search.cpan.org/~dmuey/Locale-Maketext-Pseudo-v0.0.3/
give localized code a pseudo language obj if a real one does not exist.
----
Math-Int64-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~salva/Math-Int64-0.03/
Manipulate 64 bits integers in Perl
----
Moose-0.19
http://search.cpan.org/~stevan/Moose-0.19/
A complete modern object system for Perl 5
----
Net-SFTP-Foreign-0.90_19
http://search.cpan.org/~salva/Net-SFTP-Foreign-0.90_19/
Secure File Transfer Protocol client
----
Number-Bytes-Human-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~ferreira/Number-Bytes-Human-0.07/
Convert byte count to human readable format
----
POE-Component-CPAN-YACSmoke-0.18
http://search.cpan.org/~bingos/POE-Component-CPAN-YACSmoke-0.18/
bringing the power of POE to CPAN smoke testing.
----
PostScript-Calendar-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~cjm/PostScript-Calendar-0.02/
Generate a monthly calendar in PostScript
----
PostScript-Calendar-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~cjm/PostScript-Calendar-0.03/
Generate a monthly calendar in PostScript
----
Statistics-Regression-0.50
http://search.cpan.org/~itub/Statistics-Regression-0.50/
weighted linear regression package (line+plane fitting)
----
WWW-Zorpia-Upload-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/WWW-Zorpia-Upload-0.02/
upload photos to www.zorpia.com
----
WebService-Tagzania-API-0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~sden/WebService-Tagzania-API-0.1/
Tagzania API Interface
----
WebService-Validator-HTML-W3C-0.18
http://search.cpan.org/~struan/WebService-Validator-HTML-W3C-0.18/
Access the W3Cs online HTML validator
----
onto-perl-0.31
http://search.cpan.org/~easr/onto-perl-0.31/
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 22:20:38 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: perl OOP
Message-Id: <slrnf1bf46.grq.tadmc@tadmc30.august.net>
Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> wrote:
> Sometimes I do copy other people's .sig's. But generally I like to
> make my own out of witty comments I find in ng's, ml's and web forums.
> Hereafter are some. (Probably not all, because I have never
> "standardized" the way I write them.)
I was looking through someone else's list of Perlish quotes
just earlier today, and lauching periodic gufaws over
the cubicle wall:
http://pq.tinita.de/?what=fortune
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Yesterday I was in doubt whether to add you to my killfile.
> Today, I no longer have that doubt.
Yikes! I was thinking that just upthread...
> - Alan J. Flavell in clpmisc, "Re: short script differences"
God, I miss that man!
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:46:08 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: perl OOP
Message-Id: <slrnf1bd3g.grq.tadmc@tadmc30.august.net>
Xiong Changnian <please@nospam.net> wrote:
> In article <m2648b3z08.fsf@local.wv-www.com>,
> Sherm Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote:
>
>> It's not a matter of belief. "By definition" has a meaning.
>
> Okay. Direct me to the page of the Camel Book where this phrase ("by
> definition") is defined.
*You* are the one who invoked that "new" is a constructor "by definition".
Simply show this definition that you refer to and silence your critics.
> If you can do this, I will bow to your
> superiority.
Oh I see.
This isn't about correctness, it is about who is better?
No wonder you won't let it go then...
> Otherwise, I maintain that I'm entitled to use it in the sense of "by my
> current definition", "defined in this case", or "as hereby defined" and
But you did not say any of those.
> if you don't like that, you're quibbling with my English, not my Perl,
And your English will mislead our peers.
We prefer that they not be misled.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:50:54 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: perl OOP
Message-Id: <slrnf1bdce.grq.tadmc@tadmc30.august.net>
Xiong Changnian <please@nospam.net> wrote:
> In article <slrnf19cth.h89.abigail@alexandra.abigail.be>,
> Abigail <abigail@abigail.be> wrote:
>
>> My correction was for the benefit
>> of everyone who had read your post...
>
> Was it really? Because I'm starting to get the distinct impression that
> a majority of posts to this group are made to trash the egos of other
> posters, without regard for topic or eventual clarity.
You are exactly correct!
This is an awful place.
There is no point in you even coming here anymore!
> Newcomers are
> scathingly attacked for failure to read docs
and that is As It Should Be.
> and others' posts are
> searched for the least deviation from convention, there to be pilloried
> and beaten to a pulp. This obsessive deconstruction serves nobody who
> seeks information.
Yet that is how it is here.
You might consider giving up on fixing us and go fix somewhere else.
> Done, done, and done.
Great. I see that you have already come to the conclusion that
this place is not worth your effort.
I hope you are a man of your word!
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 22:31:38 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: perl system command
Message-Id: <slrnf1bfoq.grq.tadmc@tadmc30.august.net>
keepyourstupidspam@yahoo.co.uk <keepyourstupidspam@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to run this command using system but it fails.
>
> gmake.exe -r -R --win32 --f makefile.mk 2>&1 | perl %SRC_DIR_XP%
> \scripts\tee.pl build.log
>
>
> @args1 = ("$SRC_DIR_XP\\make\\gmake.exe", "-r", "-R", "--win32",
> "--f", "$SRC_DIR_ISEE_NT\\makefile.mk", "2>&1", "|",
> "perl", "$SRC_DIR_XP\\scripts\\tee.pl", "build.log");
>
> system(@args1) == 0
> or die "system @args failed: $?";
The "system PROGRAM LIST" (more that one argument) form of system()
does not invoke a shell, so you cannot expect shell constructs,
such as file redirection, to work.
> Anyone know how to get this to work?
Pass a single argument to system().
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 06 Apr 2007 06:09:59 GMT
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.7 $)
Message-Id: <4615e436$0$3157$ae4e5890@news.nationwide.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.7 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 311
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