[28243] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 9607 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Aug 15 09:05:57 2006
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:05:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 15 Aug 2006 Volume: 10 Number: 9607
Today's topics:
Re: Accessing a container objects state from aggregated anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Re: convert structured strings to possibly deep hash of <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
File does not exist: /home/virtual/site2/fst/var/www/ht rallabs@adelphia.net
Re: File does not exist: /home/virtual/site2/fst/var/ww <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
js input reqd a@tempinbox.com
Re: js input reqd <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Re: js input reqd <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: Multiposting Notification Bot [Was Re: LWP::UserAge <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer) <mumia.w.18.spam+nospam.usenet@earthlink.net>
Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer) <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer) <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer) usenet@DavidFilmer.com
Re: PerlDoc used in CPAN?--MULTIPOSTED <sherm@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Re: PerlDoc used in CPAN?--MULTIPOSTED <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Re: Publicly flog David Filmer for writing multi-post f usenet@DavidFilmer.com
Re: string and time question <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:35:33 GMT
From: anno4000@radom.zrz.tu-berlin.de
Subject: Re: Accessing a container objects state from aggregated objects
Message-Id: <4kdps5FbminhU1@news.dfncis.de>
Derek Basch <dbasch@yahoo.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Hello all,
>
> I am trying to do class aggregation properly in perl. I was wondering
> what the best practices for accessing a container objects state from
> the aggregated objects is.
>
> For instance this is what I came up with:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> use strict;
> use warnings;
>
> package Member_dev;
> use Membership_dev;
>
> sub new {
> my $class = shift;
> my $member_identifier = shift;
> my $self = {
> 'address' => "yo momma's house"
> };
> bless ($self, $class);
> $self->{'membership_dev'} = Membership_dev->new($self);
> return $self;
> }
>
> package Membership_dev;
> sub new {
> my $class = shift;
> my $self = {
> 'member' => shift
> };
> bless ($self, $class);
> return $self;
> }
>
> sub suspend {
> my $self = shift;
> print "Address $self->{'member'}->{'address'} is suspended!";
> }
>
> package main;
> my $member = Member_dev->new();
> $member->{'membership_dev'}->suspend();
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> As you can see I am passing the member object reference to the
> aggregated membership object. Then I can access the container objects
> state information from the aggregated object. Is this a good idea? Is
> there a better way to do this?
This looks like a has-a situation with delegation of methods to member
objects. That is a standard technique. Whether there is a better one
in your situation isn't clear because you haven't described what the
situation is.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:56:50 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: convert structured strings to possibly deep hash of hashes
Message-Id: <9163e21ga8nfal7063hdr9ste8kee8nei5@4ax.com>
On 9 Aug 2006 12:21:53 +0200, Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
wrote:
>but you should be able to work around them. However I clearly remember
>having seen posted right here, recently, an example involving a module
>specifically aimed at helping one with the access to structures like
>the one you're dealing with, and one that would greately aid you in
>this case. Unfortunately I can't remember its name and cannot seem to
>come up with resonable guesses for a CPAN search. Hopefully someone
>will know better and point it out!
It was Data::Diver. See <http://perlmonks.org/?node_id=567395>.
Anyway, a Google search[*] reveals that I was probably wrong,
believing I had seen it mentioned here.
[*]
<http://groups.google.it/groups/search?q=group%3Acomp.lang.perl.misc+data+diver>.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 04:12:15 -0700
From: rallabs@adelphia.net
Subject: File does not exist: /home/virtual/site2/fst/var/www/html/favicon.ico--?
Message-Id: <1155640335.695739.317360@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
My error log contains multiple instances of the line
File does not exist: /home/virtual/site2/fst/var/www/html/favicon.ico
after anyone steps through a multi-page series of scripts I wrote. I
haven't been able to sort out
how many of these messages appear vs which pages it visits. Does
anyone know what this is about?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:30:07 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: File does not exist: /home/virtual/site2/fst/var/www/html/favicon.ico--?
Message-Id: <Xns98204C694DBFAasu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
rallabs@adelphia.net wrote in news:1155640335.695739.317360@
75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> My error log contains multiple instances of the line
> File does not exist: /home/virtual/site2/fst/var/www/html/favicon.ico
>
> after anyone steps through a multi-page series of scripts I wrote. I
> haven't been able to sort out
> how many of these messages appear vs which pages it visits. Does
> anyone know what this is about?
This does not have anything to do with Perl. It is blatantly off-topic in
this group. A simple web search would have provided you with the answer.
<URL: http://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+favicon>
Please do not continue this thread, and do read the posting guidelines for
this group.
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 01:51:49 -0700
From: a@tempinbox.com
Subject: js input reqd
Message-Id: <1155631909.157680.103160@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>
guys i m trying to figure out which javascript toolkit to use
i m now trying to figure out which to use between
The major contenders are:
Dojo
Mochikit
and prototype [rails fame]
i would love to find out which is very pythonic and clean
if you can also tell about your experience of using one of these
thanks
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:13:28 +0200
From: Josef Moellers <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Subject: Re: js input reqd
Message-Id: <ebs3ca$385$1@nntp.fujitsu-siemens.com>
a@tempinbox.com wrote:
> guys i m trying to figure out which javascript toolkit to use
>=20
> i m now trying to figure out which to use between
> The major contenders are:
> Dojo
> Mochikit
> and prototype [rails fame]
>=20
> i would love to find out which is very pythonic and clean
> if you can also tell about your experience of using one of these
> thanks
>=20
Hmmm, I find a "p" in javascri_p_t, an "e" in figur_e_, an "r" in=20
t_r_ying, and an "l" in too_l_kit, so it must be a "perl"-related=20
question, but I can't for the heck of it find the answer ;-)
Josef
--=20
Josef M=F6llers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize
-- T. Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 12:03:54 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: js input reqd
Message-Id: <su63e29kt0p8umdpvfg36idos22b4jmlpa@4ax.com>
On 15 Aug 2006 01:51:49 -0700, a@tempinbox.com wrote:
>Subject: js input reqd
pl grp.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 13:55:26 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Multiposting Notification Bot [Was Re: LWP::UserAgent question--MULTIPOSTED]
Message-Id: <7nc3e29a5t4j6t17980h3mc3gv8v5oie8k@4ax.com>
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:37:09 GMT, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
>Presumably this means that a single extra space or line distinguishing
>two messages (easy enough to do even if not deliberately using
>cut-and-paste) would not cause them to be flagged as multiposted. So the
>bot would be only partically effective.
[snip]
>I can see a problem here... perl.beginners exists as a mailing list
>which is gatewayed to Usenet. Someone might mail to the list and also
>post to a Usenet group, not realising that perl.beginners also appears
>on Usenet, although possibly not on his server.
Also, this post gives me the floor express something I've been wanting
to write for some time: clpmisc and perl.beginners are not the whole
world, as far as resources to ask Perl related questions are
concerned. Occasionally I noticed "multiposts" across clpmisc and Perl
Monks. The latter does not have any nntp form of access, and it imho
it would be rather convoluted even thinking of one, since it is
definitely a web-based forum with some specificities in this sense.
Thus it would possibly be very difficult (albeit maybe not strictly
impossible - but useful?) to automatically detect "multipost" across
them, even if done the cut&paste way. Yet is one to be condemned for
doing so? Often it's just a matter of newbies wanting a quick answer:
yes, they should know better and stick with one resource or choose the
better one for their actual needs, which may be unknown in advance...
in which case they may rather chose one and resort to the other only
if the former does not yield anything useful. Whatever, if the
question is really interesting or people in one context admittedly had
problems and an answer came from the other one, it would be nice if
the OP reported it to the former.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:15:52 GMT
From: "Mumia W." <mumia.w.18.spam+nospam.usenet@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer)
Message-Id: <YofEg.8139$xp2.7110@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
On 08/14/2006 05:28 PM, usenet@DavidFilmer.com wrote:
> [...]
> If I've angered or annoyed anyone, I do apologize. I had no such
> intent.
> [...]
Thank you Mr. Filmer. I can see how the 'bot would reduce a
lot of work, but, as you've acknowledged, its message was a
little long and harsh.
Whatever you do, please don't release the code. Hip-ç-rime
would make usenet a nightmare with it.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:14:42 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer)
Message-Id: <n043e2dq923pspi29hmvf80n1chshho4kq@4ax.com>
On 15 Aug 2006 00:01:10 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
>which also explains crossposting, which is the recommended way to post
^^^^^
^^^^^ [*]
>a single message to more then one group, if such is really needed.
[*] is also frowned upon, but
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:20:14 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer)
Message-Id: <d843e2hqoetu9l9iampl5v6u0hc7c0bmh0@4ax.com>
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:26:43 GMT, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
>> This topic is presently being discussed in a number of threads:
>> http://tinyurl.com/rdedx, http://tinyurl.com/m2e2r, and
>> http://tinyurl.com/oubbn (and possibly others), and the topic is
>> certainly OT to the first two threads (and the third thread is postured
>> as an attack article). Multiple threads are an ineffective way to
>
>Now you have hit *my* pet annoyance... posting URLs in Usenet
^^^^
^^^^
Perhaps you mean *web* URLS...
>postings without good cause... sorry, I'm not firing up a browser
>to read them.
I *am* firing it up, but I do agree: I, for one, would prefer
<news:...> urls. Best would be to put both these and the ones for the
web, to make life easier both to those using a "real" client and those
using a web based one.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 02:46:03 -0700
From: usenet@DavidFilmer.com
Subject: Re: My multipost-detecting usenet bot (David Filmer)
Message-Id: <1155635163.483716.100720@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Mumia W. wrote:
> Whatever you do, please don't release the code. Hip-=E7-rime
> would make usenet a nightmare with it.
Ya know, that type of thing really hadn't occured to me. Egads, what a
real nightmare that could be.
--=20
David Filmer (http://DavidFilmer.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:00:13 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Subject: Re: PerlDoc used in CPAN?--MULTIPOSTED
Message-Id: <m27j1acipe.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
"Davy" <zhushenli@gmail.com> writes:
> I have read the bot information thoroughly, and have three solutions.
>
> [1] Idea from email's "CC". Partition target forum to "primary forum"
> and "not primary forum". When we multipost, we must choose only one
> "primary forum" and several "not primary forum". When someone reply on
> "not primary forum", the post will be post to the "primary forum" but
> can be show on all the "not primary forum". Is it possible in
> techniques?
>
> [2] When the person who reply the multipost, he can choose to reply to
> all the multipost forums (all follower can view his post, and I prefer
> that) or only reply to the forum he choose.
>
> [3] When multipost, the system add a tag to the source post and show
> where post is multiposted.
You are speaking of making changes to "the interface" to "the system", but
usenet is not a single system, nor does it have a single interface. It's a
distributed network of servers, accessed by way of many client applications,
one of which happens to be the web-based interface provided by Google.
sherm--
--
Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 14:01:37 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: PerlDoc used in CPAN?--MULTIPOSTED
Message-Id: <8hd3e21gihkaji83lnpq1dsnl2491ir1s2@4ax.com>
On 14 Aug 2006 18:52:16 -0700, "Davy" <zhushenli@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have read the bot information thoroughly, and have three solutions.
>
>[1] Idea from email's "CC". Partition target forum to "primary forum"
>and "not primary forum". When we multipost, we must choose only one
>"primary forum" and several "not primary forum". When someone reply on
>"not primary forum", the post will be post to the "primary forum" but
>can be show on all the "not primary forum". Is it possible in
>techniques?
>
>[2] When the person who reply the multipost, he can choose to reply to
>all the multipost forums (all follower can view his post, and I prefer
>that) or only reply to the forum he choose.
>
>[3] When multipost, the system add a tag to the source post and show
^^^^^^
^^^^^^
>where post is multiposted.
Note: this is USENET. It is not a "forum", which is a term rather
applied to web-based comminities. There are standars, precisely in the
nntp protocol. Clients do, of course, comply. But much is still in
their control. Of course you can trim the list of ng's you're replying
(or better: following up) to. One can set up Followup-To, too. I
*think* it's possible to set up additional headers, but then clients
should coordinate on their semantic meaning, which is not something
feasible. Etc. (More knowledgeable people will... know better!)
All in all there's not a "system". *The* system is compound of servers
and clients, and standars for them to communicate.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 07:22:14 GMT
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.6 $)
Message-Id: <44e17625$0$47258$ae4e5890@news.nationwide.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.6 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 03:07:06 -0700
From: usenet@DavidFilmer.com
Subject: Re: Publicly flog David Filmer for writing multi-post flagging 'bot
Message-Id: <1155636425.959467.159030@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>
John Bokma wrote:
> "Mumia W." <mumia.w.18.spam+nospam.usenet@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I don't give kudos to Bokma too often, but I do right now.
> > Thanks John Bokma.
>
> You're welcome ;-)
Group hug!!!
--
David Filmer (http://DavidFilmer.com)
------------------------------
Date: 15 Aug 2006 11:26:25 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: string and time question
Message-Id: <bg43e2hvsngrflj938og19prgj8e3jj74t@4ax.com>
On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:16:02 GMT, "a" <a@mail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>Have two questions.
>1> Let say,
>my $str = "abcd";
>How can I do the following,
>$str = $str + 1 make $str becomes "abce"?
$str++;
>2> Is it possible to do the following?
>for(k=1;k<9;k++){
>do something
>wait for 10second
>}
for my $k (1..8) { # preferred style
do 'something';
sleep 10;
}
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 9607
***************************************
