[28050] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 9414 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Jul 1 14:05:52 2006
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 11:05:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 1 Jul 2006 Volume: 10 Number: 9414
Today's topics:
"Inappropriate ioctl for device" while upload()ing usin latin0511@gmail.com
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <ynleder@nspark.org>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <ynleder@nspark.org>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <ynleder@nspark.org>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <mumia.w.18.spam+nospam.usenet@earthlink.net>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <ynleder@nspark.org>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <ermeyers@adelphia.net>
Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as m <ynleder@nspark.org>
Re: Extract gzip Files <ermeyers@adelphia.net>
Re: Extract gzip Files <john@castleamber.com>
Re: languages with full unicode support <david.nospam.hopwood@blueyonder.co.uk>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <john@castleamber.com>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <sherm@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl applicat <sherm@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Re: Rookie Perl Question <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: Rookie Perl Question <john@castleamber.com>
Re: What is Expressiveness in a Computer Language (Stephen J. Bevan)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 2006 10:09:33 -0700
From: latin0511@gmail.com
Subject: "Inappropriate ioctl for device" while upload()ing using CGI.pm
Message-Id: <1151773773.038147.159140@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
I'm using the procedural upload() function from CGI.pm.
In this line:
my $fd_file = upload( 'file' ) or die( "upload() ( $! )" );
I encounter the weird-looking error:
"Inappropriate ioctl for device".
I don't understand what could be the problem. I did exactly like they
say in the manual.
Can you please help me solve this problem?
Thanks a lot!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:03:55 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <slrneacslr.630.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Yohan N Leder <ynleder@nspark.org> wrote:
> I'm trying to do a differenciated recursive call (using command line
> argument) print to same STDOUT than the one used during main first call.
You don't show any recursion, so we can't help you with the recursion.
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
> if ($#ARGV >= 0){print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
> How to do ?
You can't in a CGI program.
CGI programs take input either in an environment variable, or from
stdin, there is no "command line" for programs run in a CGI environment.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 15:31:43 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <4gnbttF1nc3b5U1@individual.net>
Yohan N. Leder wrote:
> I'm trying to do a differenciated recursive call (using command line
> argument) print to same STDOUT than the one used during main first call.
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
> if ($#ARGV >= 0){print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
> else{print "<p>main call</p>";}
> exit 0;
>
> or
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
> if ($#ARGV >= 0){print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
> else{print "Content-type: text/html\n\n<p>main call</p>";}
> exit 0;
>
> Both show "main call" in browser, but nothing about "recursive call with
> cmdline argument".
>
> How to do ?
Let me guess: Are you possibly trying to test whether a query string was
appended to the URL when the script was invoked via a browser?
if ( $ENV{QUERY_STRING} ) { print ...
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:16:44 +0200
From: Yohan N. Leder <ynleder@nspark.org>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <MPG.1f10a239532d0a189898b2@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <e85nq4$jf0$1@news.ox.ac.uk>,
David.Squire@no.spam.from.here.au says...
> I'm not at all sure what you are trying to do here, but it looks as if
> you mean that you want your CGI script to call itself, while printing
> its output to the browser. How are you doing the recursive call?
>
Oops, in my precipitation to ask for help, I written a totaly stupid
piece of test code. Sorry, here is a one closer to the real subject :
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
if ($#ARGV >= 0){
print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
else
{
use Config;
use Win32::Process;
my $proc;
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n<p>main call</p>";
Win32::Process::Create($proc, $Config::Config{perlpath},
"\"$Config::Config{perlpath}\" \"$0\" arg",
0, &Win32::Process::DETACHED_PROCESS, ".")
|| die Win32::FormatMessage(Win32::GetLastError());
}
exit 0;
And, I never see the "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>" in
browser.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:19:35 +0200
From: Yohan N. Leder <ynleder@nspark.org>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <MPG.1f10a2e36414af179898b3@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <slrneacslr.630.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>,
tadmc@augustmail.com says...
> You can't in a CGI program.
>
> CGI programs take input either in an environment variable, or from
> stdin, there is no "command line" for programs run in a CGI environment.
>
Sory for the first test code which was written too quickly : don't take
care about it. The real one is this one :
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
if ($#ARGV >= 0){
print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
else
{
use Config;
use Win32::Process;
my $proc;
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n<p>main call</p>";
Win32::Process::Create($proc, $Config::Config{perlpath},
"\"$Config::Config{perlpath}\" \"$0\" arg",
0, &Win32::Process::DETACHED_PROCESS, ".")
|| die Win32::FormatMessage(Win32::GetLastError());
}
exit 0;
But, reading you, I'm wondering if it's really valid to do this second
process, calling the script through a command line ?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:22:36 +0200
From: Yohan N. Leder <ynleder@nspark.org>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <MPG.1f10a394b44163539898b4@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <4gnbttF1nc3b5U1@individual.net>, noreply@gunnar.cc says...
> Let me guess: Are you possibly trying to test whether a query string was
> appended to the URL when the script was invoked via a browser?
>
> if ( $ENV{QUERY_STRING} ) { print ...
>
In fact, not, since my way is simply to replace fork (which bugs in Win
with ActivePerl 5.8.8) with something which is right under Windows. So,
I'm going through Win32::Process and a command line call, like this
(forgot the first inaccurate test code;)) :
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
if ($#ARGV >= 0){
print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
else
{
use Config;
use Win32::Process;
my $proc;
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n<p>main call</p>";
Win32::Process::Create($proc, $Config::Config{perlpath},
"\"$Config::Config{perlpath}\" \"$0\" arg",
0, &Win32::Process::DETACHED_PROCESS, ".")
|| die Win32::FormatMessage(Win32::GetLastError());
}
exit 0;
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 15:34:03 GMT
From: "Mumia W." <mumia.w.18.spam+nospam.usenet@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <LBwpg.999$ye3.422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>
Yohan N. Leder wrote:
> In article <e85nq4$jf0$1@news.ox.ac.uk>,
> David.Squire@no.spam.from.here.au says...
>> I'm not at all sure what you are trying to do here, but it looks as if
>> you mean that you want your CGI script to call itself, while printing
>> its output to the browser. How are you doing the recursive call?
>>
>
> Oops, in my precipitation to ask for help, I written a totaly stupid
> piece of test code. Sorry, here is a one closer to the real subject :
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
> if ($#ARGV >= 0){
> print "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>";}
> else
> {
> use Config;
> use Win32::Process;
> my $proc;
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n<p>main call</p>";
> Win32::Process::Create($proc, $Config::Config{perlpath},
> "\"$Config::Config{perlpath}\" \"$0\" arg",
> 0, &Win32::Process::DETACHED_PROCESS, ".")
> || die Win32::FormatMessage(Win32::GetLastError());
> }
>
> exit 0;
>
>
> And, I never see the "<p>recursive call with cmdline argument</p>" in
> browser.
This is a bad idea. The CGI environment is complicated enough. This
forces your script have to have to deal with two, rather different,
environments. You should make the process you call a completely
different script.
But if you're wedded to the idea of making a recursive call, I advise
that you distinguish the recursive invocation using the QUERY_STRING
environment variable (to be consistent with CGI).
Also, before you do recursive invocations using Win32::Process::Create,
make sure that you can do simple, non-recursive invocations of other
scripts and programs using Win32::Process::Create.
Again, recursion this way is a bad idea. There is a 99% chance that
creating a separate process for each recursive "call" is not necessary
for your application. Just create one big subroutine and call it
recursively like so:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use warnings;
sub bigsub;
bigsub;
sub bigsub {
my $job = shift;
if (! $job) {
print "Content-Type: text/html\n\n";
print "<title> Recursive Call </title>\n";
print "<p> main call </p>\n";
print bigsub($_) for qw(Sailor Construction-Worker
Police-Man Indian);
} else {
return "<p> I'm a $job. </p>\n";
}
}
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 17:55:46 +0200
From: Yohan N. Leder <ynleder@nspark.org>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <MPG.1f10b96a629586729898b5@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <LBwpg.999$ye3.422@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
mumia.w.18.spam+nospam.usenet@earthlink.net says...
> Again, recursion this way is a bad idea. There is a 99% chance that
> creating a separate process for each recursive "call" is not necessary
> for your application. Just create one big subroutine and call it
> recursively like so:
>
Yes, but originally, I needed to fork. Unfortunately, it bug when script
is in taint mode under ActivePerl 5.8.8 (known bug). Then, I did it
going through threads with async : unfortunatly again, it's subject to
same bug : perl crash ! So, I've finally tried using Win32::Process...
And here I am.
Well, so, since you told me to don't use command line call and knowing
it's the way Win32::Process:Create works : how to do ?
How to launch asynchronously a call to a sub in the same script knowing
I can't fork() nor threads's async{} ?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 12:23:17 -0400
From: "Eric R. Meyers" <ermeyers@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <4KidnS7o_v_rPDvZnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@adelphia.com>
Yohan N. Leder wrote:
> Yes, but originally, I needed to fork. Unfortunately, it bug when script
> is in taint mode under ActivePerl 5.8.8 (known bug). Then, I did it
> going through threads with async : unfortunatly again, it's subject to
> same bug : perl crash ! So, I've finally tried using Win32::Process...
> And here I am.
>
> Well, so, since you told me to don't use command line call and knowing
> it's the way Win32::Process:Create works : how to do ?
>
> How to launch asynchronously a call to a sub in the same script knowing
> I can't fork() nor threads's async{} ?
One simple redirection may be a possible solution, but I don't think that
anyone quite knows yet what you where trying to do in the first place,
before you encountered the bug and started heading in this direction.
Please provide some details, or an example, of your CGI program's original
purpose, the CGI environment, the calls that need to be made and the
arguments that need to be passed along to process the data.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:43:05 +0200
From: Yohan N. Leder <ynleder@nspark.org>
Subject: Re: Does recursive call able to print in same page as main call
Message-Id: <MPG.1f10c484187fde399898b6@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <4KidnS7o_v_rPDvZnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
ermeyers@adelphia.net says...
> One simple redirection may be a possible solution, but I don't think that
> anyone quite knows yet what you where trying to do in the first place,
> before you encountered the bug and started heading in this direction.
>
> Please provide some details, or an example, of your CGI program's original
> purpose, the CGI environment, the calls that need to be made and the
> arguments that need to be passed along to process the data.
>
The sub I want to fork, async or Win32::Process is quite long, but
mainly, it does calculations against input user (collected by main
process) and data already written in server files, then update these
same server files with new results. However, durin,g this time, main
process has to continue and doesn't wait for anything about this
secondary process (because of this, I indicated DETACHED_PROCESS in
Win32::Process, $SIG{CHLD} = 'IGNORE' when I gone through fork(), and
detach() about threads).
What I want is that this long calculation/file_writing sub be launched
in an asychonous manner. Also, I don"'t want to put this sub in a second
script because it may be call in another place of the main process, but
with sub parameters doing it's a short computing this time ; in others
wod, depending of the sub parameters, this sub will be long or short.
And for the long call (one only in the entire script), I wish it be a
non blocking one : fork and or threads was ideal for this... But...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 09:11:01 -0400
From: "Eric R. Meyers" <ermeyers@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Extract gzip Files
Message-Id: <97KdnfnoXo766TvZnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@adelphia.com>
Mike Flannigan wrote:
>
> I want to extract all the gzip files in a directory to the same
> directory. I know how to do this with zip files with
> Archive::Zip and File::Find, but have not been able to do
> it with gzip files. I have searched hard, but not found a
> good solution yet, unless the best solution is Tie::Gzip
> along with the gzip program.
>
> I'd like to do this with Perl only if that is practical. I am
> on Win2000 and don't have gzip (I don't think). I do
> have WinZip and it will extract the files one-by-one.
> I just downloaded Power Archiver 6.1, but would
> prefer not to install it. My skill level is moderately
> advanced - well maybe not, but far above newbie
> anyway.
>
>
> Mike Flannigan
Take a look at IO::Zlib and Compress::Zlib.
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 2006 17:28:26 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Extract gzip Files
Message-Id: <Xns97F37EE291A7Dcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I'd like to do this with Perl only if that is practical. I am
> on Win2000 and don't have gzip (I don't think).
See http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/
http://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/gzip.htm
--
John Bokma Freelance software developer
&
Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:20:52 GMT
From: David Hopwood <david.nospam.hopwood@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: languages with full unicode support
Message-Id: <UEupg.30647$7Z6.25529@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk>
Joachim Durchholz wrote:
> Chris Uppal schrieb:
>> Joachim Durchholz wrote:
>>
>>>> This is implementation-defined in C. A compiler is allowed to accept
>>>> variable names with alphabetic Unicode characters outside of ASCII.
>>>
>>> Hmm... that could would be nonportable, so C support for Unicode is
>>> half-baked at best.
>>
>> Since the interpretation of characters which are yet to be added to
>> Unicode is undefined (will they be digits, "letters", operators, symbol,
>> punctuation.... ?), there doesn't seem to be any sane way that a
>> language could allow an unrestricted choice of Unicode in identifiers.
>
> I don't think this is a problem in practice. E.g. if a language uses the
> usual definition for identifiers (first letter, then letters/digits),
> you end up with a language that changes its definition on the whims of
> the Unicode consortium, but that's less of a problem than one might
> think at first.
It is not a problem at all. See the stability policies in
<http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr31/tr31-2.html>.
> Actually I'm not sure that Unicode is important for long-lived code.
> Code tends to not survive very long unless it's written in English, in
> which case anything outside of strings is in 7-bit ASCII. So the
> majority of code won't ever be affected by Unicode problems - Unicode is
> more a way of lowering entry barriers.
Unicode in identifiers has certainly been less important than some thought
it would be -- and not at all important for open source projects, for example,
which essentially have to use English to get the widest possible participation.
--
David Hopwood <david.nospam.hopwood@blueyonder.co.uk>
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 2006 07:38:09 -0700
From: "Bob" <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <1151764689.057720.92750@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
Re: John Bokma
Yes, a fresh functional specification is the way to go. The application
has been growing
with reasonably good structured programming, but has also bent to the
need of the GUI.
There are parts of it that fetch data from the SQL engine, presents it
like a spreadsheet,
and one can only change values by first clicking on a line and then
editing on a special
made window; this was built from scratch, it works, but is cumbersome
and not portable.
I want to replace it with something that is closer to the functionality
of a spreadsheet.
Of course, it is not a spreadsheet, but I arranged the data in a way
that looks like one.
Another part where data and gui get together is a window that should
display data
continuously; given the limitations of perl/tk in this task, I had to
find a compromise.
Anyway... PAR sounds good. I wonder how big my .exe would be, if it is
portable,
and if the source code would show up in it.
>An IDE is just a fancy knife. You have to provide the mustard, and do the cutting :-)
Portability and GUI are the two components of any application that
require a great deal
of patience and also knowledge and skill about platforms that you may
not have in house.
Think about coding in windows for an application that must now run in
solaris! The IDE
is an attempt to automate this work reliably. Just code once, and get
the ports for free.
It is a lot of code, if you think about it, and the separation between
GUI and core
algorithms contributes to good design, at least in my Idiosyncratic
view of things.
The alternative is Java, but I want a swift application... Java is too
hungry for resources.
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 15:13:04 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <Xns97F3723544310asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"Bob" <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1151764689.057720.92750@h44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Re: John Bokma
>
>>An IDE is just a fancy knife. You have to provide the mustard, and do
>>the cutting :-)
>
> Portability and GUI are the two components of any application that
> require a great deal of patience and also knowledge and skill about
> platforms that you may not have in house.
True.
> The IDE is an attempt to automate this work reliably. Just code once,
> and get the ports for free.
I am not sure how an IDE would provide that. I think you are confused
about what IDE means. I think, you are confusing it with a framework.
Sinan
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 2006 08:41:16 -0700
From: "Bob" <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <1151768476.544626.221660@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>
Re: A. Sinan Unur
> I am not sure how an IDE would provide that. I think you are confused
> about what IDE means. I think, you are confusing it with a framework.
Framework is synonymous for an Integrated Development Environment,
or IDE, which is the term that I see more often. Some people intend the
IDE for an editor that assists you with the different files and their
dependences,
other intend it for a GUI editor, and other intend it for a combination
of the two
with the added benefit of porting and package generation. We are
talking
about professional frameworks, of course.
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 16:00:19 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <Xns97F37A37D6A04asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"Bob" <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1151768476.544626.221660
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
> Re: A. Sinan Unur
>
>> I am not sure how an IDE would provide that. I think you are confused
>> about what IDE means. I think, you are confusing it with a framework.
>
> Framework is synonymous for an Integrated Development Environment,
> or IDE, which is the term that I see more often.
Absolutely not. An IDE is GUI application that provides editing,
debugging, project management and other facilities.
IDE's closely tied with a GUI framework also provide GUI designers to
facilitate using the framework.
> We are talking about professional frameworks, of course.
Perl/TK is a very professional framework. GUI applications you write using
Perl/TK are very much write once/run most places if you do not introduce
other (non-GUI) platform dependencies in your code. This is true whether
you used an IDE or a GUI designer or just coded the GUI by hand.
Sinan
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 2006 17:24:21 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <Xns97F37E311DF19castleamber@130.133.1.4>
"Bob" <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Another part where data and gui get together is a window that should
> display data
> continuously; given the limitations of perl/tk in this task, I had to
> find a compromise.
AFAIK, this is just possible. Another option, if you want to go the Perl
way, might be wxWindows/wxWidgets. I have little experience with Tk, but
do know that wx has support for tables/spreadsheet constructs in a Window.
> Anyway... PAR sounds good. I wonder how big my .exe would be, if it is
> portable,
AFAIK you have to make a version for each platform, since perl itself is
not portable. (perl, not Perl)
> and if the source code would show up in it.
Yes, but if reverse engineering is an issue, you probably shouldn't
release the program :-)
>>An IDE is just a fancy knife. You have to provide the mustard, and do
>>the cutting :-)
>
> Think about coding in windows for an application that must now run in
> solaris!
Java, and maybe C# (MONO).
> The IDE
> is an attempt to automate this work reliably. Just code once, and get
> the ports for free.
You're mistaken.
> The alternative is Java, but I want a swift application... Java is too
> hungry for resources.
Depends a lot on the programmer. It seems that a lot of Java programmers
mistake garbage collection and Swing for a free programmer that comes with
the language.
--
John Bokma Freelance software developer
&
Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:27:23 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <m2r715tev8.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
"Bob" <catdogbeloved@yahoo.com> writes:
> Framework is synonymous for an Integrated Development Environment,
No, it is not. Framework is synonymous for a collection of one or more
libraries. You can (and I often do) use various frameworks with plain old
make files - no IDE needed.
An IDE is an Integrated Development Environment. Editor, debugger, compiler
(if one is needed) all in one environment.
Some IDEs are made to support specific frameworks - Visual Studio and Xcode
come to mind. Other IDEs, such as Eclipse and Emacs, are language- and
framework-agnostic.
There are also products like Visual Basic and Delphi where the IDE and frame-
work happen to be delivered in the same package, and rather tightly bound to
one another. That has no bearing on the definition of the terms, it's just a
decision by the author to package the two pieces together and market the
result as a single product.
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 13:36:57 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <sherm@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
Subject: Re: Professional IDE for a cross-platform Perl application
Message-Id: <m2k66xtefa.fsf@Sherm-Pendleys-Computer.local>
"A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid> writes:
> Absolutely not. An IDE is GUI application that provides editing,
> debugging, project management and other facilities.
It's not necessarily a GUI app. I'd consider Emacs an IDE. It has all of
the requisites above - an editor (duh), an interface to gdb, interfaces
to version control and build tools, etc.
And Emacs *definitely* has the "other facilities" requirement covered. :-)
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2006 07:58:51 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rookie Perl Question
Message-Id: <slrneacscb.630.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Eric R. Meyers <ermeyers@adelphia.net> wrote:
> Tad McClellan wrote:
>> Eric R. Meyers <ermeyers@adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>>> print if ( ! m/^[#]/ );
>>
>>
>> That is fine if you are trying to hide what the code does.
>>
>> In case you might prefer maintainable code instead, then:
>>
>> print unless /^#/;
>>
>>
> That's a style issue, not a function issue.
That's what I said.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 2006 17:14:32 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Rookie Perl Question
Message-Id: <Xns97F37C8788650castleamber@130.133.1.4>
"Eric R. Meyers" <ermeyers@adelphia.net> wrote:
> John Bokma wrote:
>
>> "Eric R. Meyers" <ermeyers@adelphia.net> wrote:
[..]
>>> 'if' and 'while' for a beginner.
>>
>> Nonsense. I strongly recommend to use unless if the if ! construct
>> looks like a lot of noise as in "if ( ! m/^[#]/ );", especially since
>> it has a lot of noise overhead ([] not needed, m not needed, () not
>> needed).
>>
> Hi John! Again, it's a style issue, not a function issue.
It's a beginners issue, and I wouldn't teach a beginner how to write lines
and lines containing a lot of noise, certainly not as being "easier". I
respect beginners enough to assume that they are willing to learn how to
code readable.
A statement like "'if' and 'while'" for a beginner" are extremely
degrading.
--
John Bokma Freelance software developer
&
Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2006 16:46:25 GMT
From: stephen@dino.dnsalias.com (Stephen J. Bevan)
Subject: Re: What is Expressiveness in a Computer Language
Message-Id: <87bqs95l49.fsf@dnsalias.com>
Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com> writes:
> Andreas Rossberg wrote:
>> AFAICT, ADT describes a type whose values can only be accessed by a
>> certain fixed set of operations.
>
> No. AFAIU, an ADT defines the type based on the operations. The stack
> holding the integers 1 and 2 is the value (push(2, push(1,
> empty()))). There's no "internal" representation. The values and
> operations are defined by preconditions and postconditions.
As a user of the ADT you get a specification consisting of a signature
(names the operations and defines their arity and type of each
argument) and axioms which define the behaviour of the operations.
The implementer has the task for producing an implementation (or
"model" to use alebraic specifiction terminology) that satisfies the
specification. One model that comes for free is the term model where
the operations are treated as terms and the representation of a stack
containing 2 and 1 would just be "(push(2, push(1, empty())))".
However, while that model comes for free it isn't necessarily the most
efficient model. Thus the non-free aspect of chosing a different
implementation is that technically it requires an accompanying proof
that the implementation satisfies the specification.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 9414
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