[27982] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 9346 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jun 22 18:05:53 2006
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 22 Jun 2006 Volume: 10 Number: 9346
Today's topics:
Re: Binding array to pattern (Seymour J.)
Re: Binding array to pattern (Seymour J.)
Re: coderwiki.com is starting and needs you! <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: coderwiki.com is starting and needs you! <bart@nijlen.com>
curselection problem in list box <spamvivek@gmail.com>
Re: curselection problem in list box <attn.steven.kuo@gmail.com>
Encoding & Decoding of D_FLOAT format <willbounce@yoshiwara.org.uk>
Getting Real IP Behind Proxy <no@spam.co.name>
Re: Getting Real IP Behind Proxy usenet@DavidFilmer.com
Re: Getting Real IP Behind Proxy <no@email.com>
Re: List context versus list context <blgl@stacken.kth.se>
Re: Native language versions <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Re: question on Net::LPR / Unix::Login <"v.niekerk at hccnet.nl">
Re: question on Net::LPR / Unix::Login <benmorrow@tiscali.co.uk>
Re: Reading the first .jpg file from a .rar archive? <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Typing (was: Re: What is Expressiveness in a Computer L <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: What is a type error? <cdsmith@twu.net>
Re: What is a type error? <eliotm@pacbell.net>
Re: What is a type error? <dnew@san.rr.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:10:24 -0300
From: "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: Binding array to pattern
Message-Id: <449acf00$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <n85pm3-an5.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>, on 06/22/2006
at 01:36 AM, Ben Morrow <benmorrow@tiscali.co.uk> said:
>Given that @abuseSubset will be empty if there are no matches, I'd
>just have
> else {
> push @abuseContacts, grep /abuse/, @$email_contact;
> }
>instead of that elsif.
Thanks.
>since you seem to be working for one platform
It's my intent to support it for *ix as well as OS/2. Most of the
other users would not be on OS/2.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:22:21 -0300
From: "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: Binding array to pattern
Message-Id: <129m46qbql85l8f@corp.supernews.com>
In <slrne9jg9k.uog.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>, on 06/21/2006
at 04:59 PM, Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> said:
>What bug was that?
The one that exists in the real world, not just in your imagination.
>The bug of matching across element boundaries?
There is no "bug of matching across element boundaries" in the code,
only in your head. There was, however, a very real error that Mr.
Morrow pointed out in <3abbm3-11e.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>.
>That is the only bug that I could see in Ben's post.
Well, that tells me how carefully you read it.
>Go read what he said again.
You mean "(though I suspect this isn't an issue in your case)."?
>And it is the same bug that I had already pointed out anyway.
Yes, the same imaginary bug that you invented the first time.
>I provided code showing the bug in your approach,
No you didn't. You provided code that had nothing to do with my
approach.
>so you could believe me.
When someone makes the same bogus claim twice, I'm not likely to
believe him.
>Please post code that shows a bug in my approach, so I can believe
>you.
Why would you imagine that I care whether you believe me? From my
perspective Mr. Guttman and Mr. Morrow are far more important than
you. Their advice has certainly been more accurate, helpful and
relevant.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 14:07:12 -0400
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: coderwiki.com is starting and needs you!
Message-Id: <x7ejxh9i9b.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "d" == da404LewZer <da404lewzer@gmail.com> writes:
d> i'm starting a wiki on coding, keeping everything seperate. anyone
d> who wants to help check out the site. i want to document every
d> function for every language ever
d> www.coderwiki.com
like wow man! just what is needed, docs for perl. perl has such little
documentation and so few books are written about it. this is such a
heroic and needed project! please continue it and let us know when you
have finished with cobol, pl1, basic (all variations and flavors), lisp,
snobol, apl and all the other langs. don't report back until that is all
completed.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 2006 11:57:24 -0700
From: "Bart Van der Donck" <bart@nijlen.com>
Subject: Re: coderwiki.com is starting and needs you!
Message-Id: <1151002644.647683.170980@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>
da404LewZer wrote:
> i'm starting a wiki on coding, keeping everything seperate. anyone who
> wants to help check out the site. i want to document every function for
> every language ever
Has your nick anything to do with the error I got on www.coderwiki.com
?
--
Bart
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 2006 12:23:18 -0700
From: "Vivek" <spamvivek@gmail.com>
Subject: curselection problem in list box
Message-Id: <1151004194.621287.207070@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
I am trying following code to see the selections made in current
listbox but can't see any output from print statement...
$io_dir_o = $frame2->Listbox(-selectmode => "multiple")->pack(-side =>
'left');
$io_dir_o->insert('end',qw/bidi out in od_bidi od_out analog avdd avss
vdd vss vddo corner filler/);
$io_dir_o->bind("<Button-1>");
$sel = $io_dir_o->curselection;
print (",$sel,");
Any suggestions. I am getting a ",," as output means empty string.
Thanks,
Vivek
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 2006 13:55:51 -0700
From: "attn.steven.kuo@gmail.com" <attn.steven.kuo@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: curselection problem in list box
Message-Id: <1151009751.067761.61610@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>
Vivek wrote:
> I am trying following code to see the selections made in current
> listbox but can't see any output from print statement...
>
> $io_dir_o = $frame2->Listbox(-selectmode => "multiple")->pack(-side =>
> 'left');
> $io_dir_o->insert('end',qw/bidi out in od_bidi od_out analog avdd avss
> vdd vss vddo corner filler/);
> $io_dir_o->bind("<Button-1>");
> $sel = $io_dir_o->curselection;
> print (",$sel,");
>
> Any suggestions. I am getting a ",," as output means empty string.
Well, you didn't select anything prior to print, right?
You probably want to bind <<ListboxSelect>>
to the print instruction:
use strict;
use warnings;
use Tk;
use Tk::Listbox;
my @minsize = (700, 400);
my $mw = MainWindow->new( -title => 'Test' );
$mw->minsize(@minsize);
my $f = $mw->Frame;
my $lb = $f->Listbox(
-selectmode => 'multiple',
);
my @list_options = qw/foo bar baz/;
my @initially_chosen = (1, 2);
$lb->insert('end', @list_options);
lb_clear_and_set($lb, @initially_chosen);
$lb->bind(
'<<ListboxSelect>>',
sub
{
display_lb_curselection($lb);
}
);
$lb->pack;
$f->pack;
MainLoop;
sub display_lb_curselection
{
my $lb = shift;
my @cs = $lb->curselection();
print "Current choices: ",
@cs
? (join ", " => @cs)
: 'nothing'
;
print "\n";
}
sub lb_clear_and_set
{
my $self = shift;
return unless $self->can('selection');
$self->selection("clear", 0, "end");
$self->selection("set", @_) if @_;
display_lb_curselection($self);
}
--
Hope this helps,
Steven
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:46:11 +0100
From: Carl Inglis <willbounce@yoshiwara.org.uk>
Subject: Encoding & Decoding of D_FLOAT format
Message-Id: <j5crm3-2ev.ln1@yoshiwara.org.uk>
As part of a project for work, I need to be able to encode and decode
floating point numbers stored in the old VAX D_FLOAT format.
I have found the specifications for this format, however floating point
numbers are not my strong suit, and I'd rather use an existing module
or algorithm, as opposed to "rolling my own".
I've googled, but to little avail and would appreciate any pointers
which anyone can give me.
TIA,
Carl
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 15:19:10 -0500
From: "M" <no@spam.co.name>
Subject: Getting Real IP Behind Proxy
Message-Id: <129luq1c1uvol05@corp.supernews.com>
I have a perl script that runs on a webserver. When someone calls this
script I want to determine there IP address. Currently I use
"$ENV{'REMOTE_ADDR'};" for this. Problem is many users connect through a
proxy cache wether they know it or not so the script sees there proxies IP
and not there own. Is there any easy way to get there real IP?
M
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 2006 13:42:55 -0700
From: usenet@DavidFilmer.com
Subject: Re: Getting Real IP Behind Proxy
Message-Id: <1151008975.105489.25730@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
M wrote:
> many users connect through a
> proxy cache wether they know it or not so the script sees there proxies IP
> and not there own. Is there any easy way to get there real IP?
You could ask them.....
Or the user could run a client-side program which furnished their IP
address to your upstream server (something like Gibson Research's
"Shields Up" thingie - http://grc.com).
But there is no way to programatically determine the original IP
address on the server-side once it's been NAT'ted. This is not a Perl
limitation - it's how TCP/IP works (and that's how it's SUPPOSED to
work).
--
http://DavidFilmer.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 22:56:25 +0100
From: Brian Wakem <no@email.com>
Subject: Re: Getting Real IP Behind Proxy
Message-Id: <4g0i09F1lapc9U1@individual.net>
M wrote:
> I have a perl script that runs on a webserver. When someone calls this
> script I want to determine there IP address. Currently I use
> "$ENV{'REMOTE_ADDR'};" for this. Problem is many users connect through a
> proxy cache wether they know it or not so the script sees there proxies IP
> and not there own. Is there any easy way to get there real IP?
>
> M
You can try looking in $ENV{'HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR'}
--
Brian Wakem
Email: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/b.wakem/myemail.png
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:18:38 +0200
From: Bo Lindbergh <blgl@stacken.kth.se>
Subject: Re: List context versus list context
Message-Id: <e7emtu$alv$1@news.su.se>
In article <slrne9lgmn.3ui.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>,
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote:
> Ch Lamprecht <christoph.lamprecht.no.spam@web.de> wrote:
> > Maybe it has something to do with aliasing of function arguments...
>
>
> I believe you are onto something there, since the only place I
> can get "2" is with the 4 things (are there more?) that do aliasing:
> map, grep, foreach and sub arguments.
sort does aliasing too, but you get 0 elements in that context:
{
my @a = sort { $b<=>$a; } ((17)[2,1]);
print scalar @a," elements\n";
# outputs "0 elements"
}
Wrapping the slice in a do-block gives you 0 elements
and still allows aliasing:
{
my($x,$y,@a)=(10,20);
foreach ( do { ((17)[2,1], $x, $y); } ) {
push(@a,$_++);
}
print scalar(@a)," elements, x=$x, y=$y\n";
# outputs "2 elements, x=11, y=21"
}
I'm afraid that any complete description of this is going to sound
badly incoherent.
/Bo Lindbergh
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jun 2006 18:48:00 GMT
From: <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: Native language versions
Message-Id: <4g06v0F1jubgsU1@uni-berlin.de>
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote:
: I suppose we'd need some character other than "m" for m// then too?
Most certainly. I suggest //i for m// (i as in itchi, to be matching).
Note that the object predicate order is typical of Japanese. In contrast,
the //i modifier of Perl (an attribute, that is), should be rendered
in Japanese as m// (for m as in mushi, to ignore).
Oliver.
--
Dr. Oliver Corff e-mail: corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 20:51:00 +0200
From: Huub <"v.niekerk at hccnet.nl">
Subject: Re: question on Net::LPR / Unix::Login
Message-Id: <449ae695$0$26665$e4fe514c@dreader18.news.xs4all.nl>
> Show us how you're sending the information to lpr.
use Net::LPR;
my $lp = new Net::LPR (
StrictRFCPorts => 1,
RemoteServer => '10.0.0.2 DeskJet520',
RemotePort => 515,
PrintErrors => 0,
RaiseErrors => 1,
);
my $data = " Contr. 2007\n
Min. bijdrage 4,25 euro per
jaar\n A.u.b. overmaken 15
juli 2006\n\n\n\n\nLidnr. $record Lidnr. $record \n
@straat @huisnr \n
@postcode @plaats \n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n";
$lp->connect() or die "Can't connect: ".$lp->error();
my $jobkey = $lp->new_job();
$lp->send_jobs('lp');
$lp->job_mode_text($jobkey);
$lp->job_send_control_file($jobkey);
$lp->job_send_data($jobkey, $data, length($data));
lp->disconnect() or die "Can't disconnect: ".$lp->error();
I've taken most of this from CPAN, assuming it is working code. Thank
you for helping out.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 17:22:33 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <benmorrow@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: question on Net::LPR / Unix::Login
Message-Id: <9nsqm3-p6b.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
[ please attribute quotations ]
Quoth Huub <"v.niekerk at hccnet.nl">:
> <benmorrow@tiscali.co.uk>:
> > Why do you think this is necessary? You are probably better off invoking
> > lpr(1) directly, and sendign the job as yourself.
>
> If I want to send the job as myself, access is denied. Unless I print by
> using the printmanager.
...you mean, by using the lpr program? That is because that is how you
are supposed to print :).
> The script should print data from a 900 record database on paper. So if
> I have to invoke lpr myself, I would have to print everything into a
> file, and then print that file. This sounds like doing the print job
> twice. Unless I can come up with another way to do it.
You can pipe the data into lpr.
Ben
--
Musica Dei donum optimi, trahit homines, trahit deos. |
Musica truces mollit animos, tristesque mentes erigit.|benmorrow@tiscali.co.uk
Musica vel ipsas arbores et horridas movet feras. |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:56:40 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Reading the first .jpg file from a .rar archive?
Message-Id: <om3f7e.u2u.ln@teal.hjp.at>
K P S wrote:
> Can someone please point me to a small script to read the first .jpg
> file from a .rar archive? I would like to create thumbnails of an
> archive based on the first image file in the archive.
>
> Also, are there perl routines for image manipulation? ie: scaleing an
> image and converting from .jpg to .png?
Several.
I have used the Imager module for this kind of stuff:
For example, here is a snippet of a script which scales down images to
at most 300x300 pixels (if they are already smaller they are left alone)
and stores them as JPEG files (the input files in this case usually are
JPEG, too, but don't have to be):
use Imager;
[...]
# Scale photo to useable size
my $img = Imager->new();
if ($img->open(file=>$mg->photo())) {
my $newimg = $img->scale(
xpixels => ($img->getwidth < 300 ? $img->getwidth: 300),
ypixels => ($img->getheight < 300 ? $img->getwidth: 300),
type => 'min');
$newimg->write(file=>"$document_root/mitglieder/$dir/photo.jpg")
or die "cannot write $document_root/mitglieder/$dir/photo.jpg: " . Imager->errstr; }
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Man könnte sich [die Diskussion] auch
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR/LUGA | sparen, wenn man sie sich einfach sparen
| | | hjp@hjp.at | würde.
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | -- Ralph Angenendt in dang 2006-04-15
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:29:21 +0200
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Typing (was: Re: What is Expressiveness in a Computer Language)
Message-Id: <e7f96i.p0.1@news.isolution.nl>
Timo Stamm schreef:
> This is actually one of the most interesting threads I have read in a
> long time. If you ignore the evangelism, there is a lot if
> high-quality information and first-hand experience you couldn't find
> in a dozen books.
Much of what is talked about, is in these articles (and their links)
http://www.mindview.net/WebLog/log-0066
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_typing
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 12:34:17 -0600
From: Chris Smith <cdsmith@twu.net>
Subject: Re: What is a type error?
Message-Id: <MPG.1f0490946f3e8a789896e0@news.altopia.net>
Chris Uppal <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> wrote:
> I think we're agreed (you and I anyway, if not everyone in this thread) that we
> don't want to talk of "the" type system for a given language. We want to allow
> a variety of verification logics. So a static type system is a logic which can
> be implemented based purely on the program text without making assumptions
> about runtime events (or making maximally pessimistic assumptions -- which comes
> to the same thing really). I suggest that a "dynamic type system" is a
> verification logic which (in principle) has available as input not only the
> program text, but also the entire history of the program execution up to the
> moment when the to-be-checked operation is invoked.
I am trying to understand how the above statement about dynamic types
actually says anything at all. So a dynamic type system is a system of
logic by which, given a program and a path of program execution up to
this point, verifies something. We still haven't defined "something",
though. We also haven't defined what happens if that verification
fails. One or the other or (more likely) some combination of the two
must be critical to the definition in order to exclude silly
applications of it. Presumably you want to exclude from your definition
of a dynamic "type system" which verifies that a value is non-negative,
and if so executes the block of code following "then"; and otherwise,
executes the block of code following "else". Yet I imagine you don't
want to exclude ALL systems that allow the programmer to execute
different code when the verification fails (think exception handlers)
versus succeeds, nor exclude ALL systems where the condition is that a
value is non-negative.
In other words, I think that everything so far is essentially just
defining a dynamic type system as equivalent to a formal semantics for a
programming language, in different words that connote some bias toward
certain ways of looking at possibilities that are likely to lead to
incorrect program behavior. I doubt that will be an attractive
definition to very many people.
> Note that not all errors that I would want to call type errors are necessarily
> caught by the runtime -- it might go happily ahead never realising that it had
> just allowed one of the constraints of one of the logics I use to reason about
> the program. What's known as an undetected bug -- but just because the runtime
> doesn't see it, doesn't mean that I wouldn't say I'd made a type error. (The
> same applies to any specific static type system too, of course.)
In static type system terminology, this quite emphatically does NOT
apply. There may, of course, be undetected bugs, but they are not type
errors. If they were type errors, then they would have been detected,
unless the compiler is broken.
If you are trying to identify a set of dynamic type errors, in a way
that also applies to statically typed languages, then I will read on.
> But the checks the runtime does perform (whatever they are, and whenever they
> happen), do between them constitute /a/ logic of correctness. In many highly
> dynamic languages that logic is very close to being maximally optimistic, but
> it doesn't have to be (e.g. the runtime type checking in the JMV is pretty
> pessimistic in many cases).
>
> Anyway, that's more or less what I mean when I talk of dynamically typed
> language and their dynamic type systems.
So my objections, then, are in the first paragraph.
> [**] Although there are operations which are not possible, reading another
> object's instvars directly for instance, which I suppose could be taken to
> induce a non-trivial (and static) type logic.
In general, I wouldn't consider a syntactically incorrect program to
have a static type error. Type systems are, in fact, essentially a tool
so separate concerns; specifically, to remove type-correctness concerns
from the grammars of programming languages. By doing so, we are able at
least to considerably simplify the grammar of the language, and perhaps
also to increase the "tightness" of the verification without risking
making the language grammar context-sensitive. (I'm unsure about the
second part of that statement, but I can think of no obvious theoretical
reason to assume that combining a type system with a regular context-
free grammar would yield another context-free grammar. Then again,
formal languages are not my strong point.)
--
Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer / Technical Trainer
MindIQ Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:03:27 GMT
From: Eliot Miranda <eliotm@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: What is a type error?
Message-Id: <zADmg.27129$VE1.10493@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>
> Chris Smith wrote:
>>I suspect you'll see the Smalltalk version of the objections raised in
>>response to my post earlier. In other words, whatever terminology you
>>think is consistent, you'll probably have a tough time convincing
>>Smalltalkers to stop saying "type" if they did before. If you exclude
>>"message not understood" as a type error, then I think you're excluding
>>type errors from Smalltalk entirely, which contradicts the psychological
>>understanding again.
>
Chris Uppal wrote:
>
> Taking Smalltalk /specifically/, there is a definite sense in which it is
> typeless -- or trivially typed -- in that in that language there are no[*]
> operations which are forbidden[**],
Come one Chris U. One has to distinguish an attempt to invoke an
operation with it being carried out. There is nothing in Smalltalk to
stop one attempting to invoke any "operation" on any object. But one
can only actually carry-out operations on objects that implement them.
So, apart from the argument about inadvertent operation name overloading
(which is important, but avoidable), Smalltalk is in fact
strongly-typed, but not statically strongly-typed.
--
_______________,,,^..^,,,____________________________
Eliot Miranda Smalltalk - Scene not herd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 21:17:28 GMT
From: Darren New <dnew@san.rr.com>
Subject: Re: What is a type error?
Message-Id: <INDmg.3801$MF6.813@tornado.socal.rr.com>
Eliot Miranda wrote:
> can only actually carry-out operations on objects that implement them.
Execpt that every operation is implemented by every object in Smalltalk.
Unless you specify otherwise, the implementation of every method is to
call the receiver with doesNotUnderstand. (I don't recall whether the
class of nil has a special rule for this or whether it implements
doesNotUnderstand and invokes the appropriate "don't send messages to
nil" method.)
There are a number of Smalltalk extensions, such as
multiple-inheritance, that rely on implementing doesNotUnderstand.
--
Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
Native Americans used every part
of the buffalo, including the wings.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 9346
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