[27517] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 9093 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Mar 26 21:05:39 2006
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:05:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 26 Mar 2006 Volume: 10 Number: 9093
Today's topics:
Re: Calculations with ',' as decimal delimiter <news@chaos-net.de>
Re: file renamer... request feedback <john@castleamber.com>
Re: OT: Emacspeak for Win32 <vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi>
Re: previous post had no color change <rallabs@adelphia.net>
Re: Semi OT: Debugging with Speech, Emacspeak for Win32 <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: sockaddr_in() timeout or asynchone call ? <no@thanks.com>
Re: sockaddr_in() timeout or asynchone call ? <no@thanks.com>
Re: sockaddr_in() timeout or asynchone call ? <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Term::ReadKey not working on one linux box <martin_mohr@gmx.de>
Re: Text::Levenshtein and utf8 woes <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Re: Text::Levenshtein and utf8 woes <dlking@cpan.org>
Re: Text::Levenshtein and utf8 woes <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Re: XML::Simple and utf8 woes <dlking@cpan.org>
Re: XML::Simple and utf8 woes <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:00:53 +0200
From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ki=DFner?= <news@chaos-net.de>
Subject: Re: Calculations with ',' as decimal delimiter
Message-Id: <slrne2di65.812.news@maki.homeunix.net>
Bart Lateur wrote :
> Martin Kissner wrote:
>
>>Is it possible to use coma (,) as decimal delimiter for some
>>calculations.
>>I have a loop and want to get rid of the substitution:
>>
>> while($condition) {
>> $value =~ s/,/./;
>> $sum+=$value;
>> }
>>
>>$value contains values like '1,05', '2,35' and so on.
>
> Why do you want to get rid of the substitution? It's a simple statement
> and it takes just a fraction of a microsecond to execute. Any other
> solution you can come up with will probably be longer to write down, and
> take longer to execute.
>
> Alternatively you can use
>
> tr/,/./
>
> which replaces all commas in the string.
Yes, this is what I use now.
Best regards
Martin
--
perl -e '$S=[[73,116,114,115,31,96],[108,109,114,102,99,112],
[29,77,98,111,105,29],[100,93,95,103,97,110]];
for(0..3){for$s(0..5){print(chr($S->[$_]->[$s]+$_+1))}}'
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 2006 21:47:05 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: file renamer... request feedback
Message-Id: <Xns9792A0921C6EEcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
"Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl> wrote:
> John Bokma schreef:
>> Uri Guttman:
>
>>> just go learn python already. they will welcome with open arms (if
>>> they had arms)
>>
>> uncalled for, don't turn this in a language war.
>
> I read it as a {{{{joke}}}}. Why should Perl get all of 0?
I like snakes :-D
--
John Bokma Freelance software developer
&
Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 23:55:55 +0300
From: "Veli-Pekka Tätilä" <vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi>
Subject: Re: OT: Emacspeak for Win32
Message-Id: <e06v58$va6$1@news.oulu.fi>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
>>> You have Emacs; you have something like festival (or any other speech
>>> synthesis program); just write a simple Emacs Lisp function which
>>> would take a region in Emacs, and will write down what you want to
>>> a pipe to the speech synthesis program.>> But the last and most serious
>>> issue is getting the app itself. Plainly
>> put, where can I get a precompiled binary of Emacspeak for Win32 which
>> supports Microsoft speech API?
> What for? Is your sound card multiplexed?
Hmmm, I think it can do hardware mixing and does have several outputs.
However, the name Microsoft speech API is a bit misleading. It let's one
deal with both speech recognition and text to speech via a uniform
interface. Naturally, using text to speech is what interests me. More
specifically using the same speech synth as in my screen reader but driven
by Emacspeak.
>> Switching synths would mean a serious productivity decrease because of
>> pronounciation and intelligibility, and losing Finnish language support
> You do not lose anything (well, you lose finnish comments/strings in
> program texts;
Again, here I just ment that I hope I don't have to switch to Festival to
keep Emacspeak happy. But then again it might not be that bad after all.
Though the speech of Festival is not very intelligible at high rates, you
could get so great a spoken representation of Perl code via some serious
hacking in Emacsspeak, that this more than compensates for it. Still, I'd
like to use my existing Microsoft speech API compatible speech synth in
Emacspeak in WIndows, if at all possible.
Finnish comments are not an issue in Perl programs, I always write comments
in English. Partly because I've learned computing largely in that language,
and partly to avoid having to switch speech languages in the first place. I
mentioned Finnish support because I write a lot of e-mail in it and I
figured out that if I'm going to do coding in Emacspeak, I might as well use
it as my e-mail editor, too.
> Which way of input is understood by your program
My current synth can be controlled via the Microsoft SAPI 5.x speech API at
least. The synthesizer itself is Dolphin Orpheus of which this is version
2.02.
Here are my reviews of both versions, to give you a picture of what kind of
synth it is:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/reviews_of_speech_synths.html#orph1
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/reviews_of_speech_synths.html#orph2
And for comparison, here's Festival:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/reviews_of_speech_synths.html#festival
Hope this clarifies things.
--
With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi)
Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 17:40:49 -0500
From: "mike" <rallabs@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: previous post had no color change
Message-Id: <fIadnRAIHKDrhbrZnZ2dnUVZ_u-dnZ2d@adelphia.com>
I didn't think of using the same thread. N.E. (newbie error)
"A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns97925FC0A5254asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1...
> "mike" <rallabs@adelphia.net> wrote in
> news:6vadneDqBbDnPbvZRVn-tA@adelphia.com:
>
>> To everyone who read my last post, my last line said "I'm not sure why
>> the color change", referring to a color change on my screen from black
>> to red near the end of the post. I looked at the post, and the color
>> change was not there, so it must have been local to my setup of O.E.
>
> What are you talking about? Couldn't you at least have replied in the same
> thread as your OP?
>
> Even if the color of something on your computer's screen changed, what
> does that have to do with Perl?
>
> Sinan
>
> --
> A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
> (remove .invalid and reverse each component for email address)
>
> comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
> http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:48:25 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: Semi OT: Debugging with Speech, Emacspeak for Win32
Message-Id: <e06r69$1uas$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Veli-Pekka Tätilä
<vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi>], who wrote in article <e05kso$lof$1@news.oulu.fi>:
> > You have Emacs; you have something like festival (or any other speech
> > synthesis program); just write a simple Emacs Lisp function which
> > would take a region in Emacs, and will write down what you want to
> > a pipe to the speech synthesis program.
...
> But the last and most serious issue is getting the app itself. Plainly put,
> where can I get a precompiled binary of Emacspeak for Win32 which supports
> Microsoft speech API?
What for? Is your sound card multiplexed? If so, then all you need
is a program which takes text from STDIN, and emits the output to the
sound card. What I have here is rsynth (of '93?). I know that the
newer source-available alternative is festival.
> On a side-note, I would pretty badly need the MS speech API support rather
> than Festival, because this multi-lingual formant speech synth I've been
> using for seven years or so, is a Windows-only, binary release and you
> cannot pipe stuff to it, as far as I know. Switching synths would mean a
> serious productivity decrease because of pronounciation and intelligibility,
> and losing Finnish language support, too, as I've noticed in trying to use
> OS X with the Macintalk voices.
You do not lose anything (well, you lose finnish comments/strings in
program texts; do you have many programs with finnish
comments/strings?) - what we discuss is an addon.
Which way of input is understood by your program (one which can be
generated programmatically)? If worst comes to worst, just open a new
window and show your converted text there.
Yours,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:40:18 +0200
From: Asterbing <no@thanks.com>
Subject: Re: sockaddr_in() timeout or asynchone call ?
Message-Id: <MPG.1e90e25ff2f2208b9897a3@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <e068pq$ubd$01$1@news.t-online.com>, rwxr-xr-x@gmx.de says...
> > StatsRelay()
> > {
>
> That's not a sub, that's a syntax error.
>
OK, effectively a typo, but it doesn't change the sense of the question.
sub StatsRelay
{
# as said in previous post
}
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:47:04 +0200
From: Asterbing <no@thanks.com>
Subject: Re: sockaddr_in() timeout or asynchone call ?
Message-Id: <MPG.1e90e3ea7508f9809897a4@news.tiscali.fr>
In article <x7odzvl57p.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>, uri@stemsystems.com
says...
> A> use IO::Socket;
>
> why are you using that module but not even using it to connect? or why
> aren't you using LWP for the web page fetch? the number of possible
> problems you avoid will amaze you.
Don't know, it's code found on the net. So, since I'm new in Perl
(you've noticed my mistake about sub syntax), could you tell me the
right way using IO::Socket or any code using only what provided with all
Perl 5.x.
Well, the second part of the question is simple : I don't want (since
config about target servers out of my own decision) to use something
else than the Perl 5.x stock modules.
> my $sock = IO::Socket::INET->new( "$host:$port" ) ;
Is that the only line to change in the sub ?
> A> print hpSOCK "GET $path HTTP/1.1\015\012";
> A> print hpSOCK "Host: $host\015\012\015\012";
>
> more code you shouldn't be writing.
Pardon ?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:51:38 -0500
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: sockaddr_in() timeout or asynchone call ?
Message-Id: <x7wtegepdh.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "A" == Asterbing <no@thanks.com> writes:
A> In article <x7odzvl57p.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>, uri@stemsystems.com
A> says...
A> use IO::Socket;
>>
>> why are you using that module but not even using it to connect? or why
>> aren't you using LWP for the web page fetch? the number of possible
>> problems you avoid will amaze you.
A> Don't know, it's code found on the net. So, since I'm new in Perl
A> (you've noticed my mistake about sub syntax), could you tell me the
A> right way using IO::Socket or any code using only what provided with all
A> Perl 5.x.
don't use most perl code you find on the net. too much of it sucks and
is for kiddies.
A> Well, the second part of the question is simple : I don't want (since
A> config about target servers out of my own decision) to use something
A> else than the Perl 5.x stock modules.
LWP (the perl web client modules) is now in the core distribution. but
that still means making sure your servers have a recent perl. if you
can't load modules (which you can as a normal user so that is not a
valid excuse) then how would you load a recent perl?
>> my $sock = IO::Socket::INET->new( "$host:$port" ) ;
A> Is that the only line to change in the sub ?
no. it replaces all the crappy socket code you copied. another point is
never copy and use code unless you understand it.
A> print hpSOCK "GET $path HTTP/1.1\015\012";
A> print hpSOCK "Host: $host\015\012\015\012";
>>
>> more code you shouldn't be writing.
A> Pardon ?
all that code is handled by LWP so use it instead of the crap you
copied.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 22:39:31 +0200
From: Martin Mohr <martin_mohr@gmx.de>
Subject: Re: Term::ReadKey not working on one linux box
Message-Id: <e06ub8$in6$1@wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> One possibility: Perl (and TRK) were not compiled on this particular
> machine, but compiled somewhere else. This "somewhere else" package
> is broken (as most out-of-site-compiled pieces of software on Unix
> are).
Hello again,
I contacted the maintainer of Term::ReadKey, Jonathan Stowe, who was
very helpful. Indeed you were right and my scepticism was wrong. It was
a problem of the pre-installed perl 5.8.0. So I compiled and installed
5.8.8 side-by-side with the old perl. It was as easy as you promised and
everything works fine now! Thank you very much!
Martin
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:59:09 +0200
From: "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at>
Subject: Re: Text::Levenshtein and utf8 woes
Message-Id: <t8h60e.394.ln@teal.hjp.at>
corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
> My series of utf8-related problem reports continues. Please have a
> look at the output of the following script:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl # uncommenting one or either of
these
> # binmode(STDOUT,":utf8"); # lines changes output significantly!
> # use utf8;
Well, that is to be expected. binmode determines how your strings are
printed, and utf8 determines the source charset of your script.
So if you change them, of course the output changes.
> use Text::Levenshtein qw(distance);
> $lemma="Ã…Â tein";# the first letter is capital S with hacek, or U+0160
> @candidates=("stein","Stein","steïn","Steïn","štein","šteïn");
The source code is obviously in UTF-8, so you need the "use ut8" pragma.
If you omit it, $lemma will contain a string with 6 characters, the
first two of which are "Å" (char 0xC5, Latin capital letter A with ring
above) and "Â " (char 0xA0, Non-breaking space).
> Please note the edit distances; apparently the Text::Levenshtein
> module works bytewise and not characterwise.
This is not at all apparent to me. The distance between Å tein and stein
is 1, as would be expected in character semantics. However, the distance
between Štein and šteïn is 4 (instead of 2), and the distance between
Štein and Šteïn is also 4 (instead of 1), which is quite puzzling.
Looking at the source-code I see that it does use character semantics,
but I don't really understand the code. The algorithm differs from the
one on the web page referenced in the POD, and I am unsure if this is a
valid optimization or a bug. Since it doesn't produce the expected
results, I am inclined to think it's a bug.
This also seems to be completely independent on whether you use utf-8 or
non-ascii characters. Consider the following changes to your script:
$lemma="stein";
@candidates=("xtein","sxein","stxan","stexn","steix");
All candidates differ by exactly 1 character from $lemma. Yet the script
prints:
stein -> xtein: 1
stein -> sxein: 2
stein -> stxan: 4
stein -> stexn: 4
stein -> steix: 1
> To make things even more complicated, the return values of 'distance'
> change with the settings of the first lines.
Not "lines". They change exactly with the presence or absence of the
utf8 pragma, since this determines how your source code is parsed.
hp
--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Löschung von at.usenet.schmankerl?
|_|_) | Sysadmin WSR/LUGA |
| | | hjp@hjp.at | Diskussion derzeit in at.usenet.gruppen
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ |
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 11:09:22 -0600
From: Donald King <dlking@cpan.org>
Subject: Re: Text::Levenshtein and utf8 woes
Message-Id: <5VzVf.1278$IG.558@dukeread01>
corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
> Hello utf8 wizards,
>
> My series of utf8-related problem reports continues. Please have a look
> at the output of the following script:
>
> #!/usr/bin/perl # uncommenting one or either of these
> # binmode(STDOUT,":utf8"); # lines changes output significantly!
> # use utf8;
> use Text::Levenshtein qw(distance);
> $lemma="Ã… tein";# the first letter is capital S with hacek, or U+0160
> @candidates=("stein","Stein","steïn","Steïn","štein","šteïn");
> for $candidate (@candidates) {
> print "$lemma -> $candidate: ".
> distance($lemma,$candidate)."\n";
>
> }
>
> Please note the edit distances; apparently the Text::Levenshtein module
> works bytewise and not characterwise. To make things even more complicated,
> the return values of 'distance' change with the settings of the first
> lines. Again, perl is v.5.8.5 on a Linux box, everything utf8-enabled.
>
> Best regards,
> Oliver.
Once I discombobulated your newsreader's "creative" idea of posting in
UTF-8, I uncommented the "use utf8" and "binmode" lines, ran the
program, and got the following result:
Å tein -> stein: 1
Å tein -> Stein: 1
Štein -> steïn: 4
Štein -> Steïn: 4
Å tein -> Å¡tein: 1
Štein -> šteïn: 4
(I assume that's correct -- U+0160 S w/ caron, U+0161 s w/ caron, U+00EF
i w/ diaeresis.)
While those 4's are wrong, I think it's a general bug in
Text::Levenshtein unrelated to UTF-8, since similar all-ASCII strings
give the same results. (If the T, E, or I change, the result is 2, 3,
or 4 respectively. If the N changes, the result is 1.)
Anyways, as a debugging aid, you might try the following program:
#!/usr/bin/perl
use utf8;
printf "U+%04X\n", ord "Å ";
Which should, of course, output "U+0160". If you get anything else,
something fishy is going on with your terminal settings or editor.
--
Donald King, a.k.a. Chronos Tachyon
http://chronos-tachyon.net/
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 2006 17:40:50 GMT
From: <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: Text::Levenshtein and utf8 woes
Message-Id: <48o212Fkrp3mU1@uni-berlin.de>
Donald King <dlking@cpan.org> wrote:
: Once I discombobulated your newsreader's "creative" idea of posting in
: UTF-8, I uncommented the "use utf8" and "binmode" lines, ran the
: program, and got the following result:
I ask for apologies for any inconvenience caused.
This is tin, running on a Unix box, seen via ssh in a Mac OS X terminal.
Where do I start tweaking?
: While those 4's are wrong, I think it's a general bug in
: Text::Levenshtein unrelated to UTF-8, since similar all-ASCII strings
: give the same results. (If the T, E, or I change, the result is 2, 3,
: or 4 respectively. If the N changes, the result is 1.)
Right; I had trouble with some pure-ASCII strings but since I always
had accented material in my data I never paid attention to the mangled
ASCII stuff :-(
: Anyways, as a debugging aid, you might try the following program:
: #!/usr/bin/perl
: use utf8;
: printf "U+%04X\n", ord "Å ";
: Which should, of course, output "U+0160". If you get anything else,
: something fishy is going on with your terminal settings or editor.
: --
: Donald King, a.k.a. Chronos Tachyon
: http://chronos-tachyon.net/
--
Dr. Oliver Corff e-mail: corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:19:54 -0600
From: Donald King <dlking@cpan.org>
Subject: Re: XML::Simple and utf8 woes
Message-Id: <JazVf.1276$IG.974@dukeread01>
Donald King wrote:
> corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de wrote:
>
>> Donald King <dlking@cpan.org> wrote:
>> : [Whoops, I did the post-vs-mail thing again. Bad coder, no cookie.]
>>
>> : FWIW, I've taken your original test case from the top of the thread and
>> : fixed it up. It's now properly encoded in UTF-8, it uses both "use
>> : utf8" and "binmode(STDOUT, ':utf8')" to fix the problem, and I fixed it
>> : to run under "use strict" and "use warnings" while I was in there. You
>> : can download it at <http://chronos-tachyon.net/~chronos/corff.pl>.
>>
>> Hi Donald,
>>
>> Thank you _very_ much for the fixed code. I ran it, and to no avail. The
>> problems remain. Can you tell me which environment the code worked for
>> you?
>>
>> My environment:
>>
>> perl -v states:
>> perl v5.8.5 built for i386-linux-thread-multi
>>
>> echo $LANG states:
>> en_US.UTF-8
>>
>> in vim, opening the file in utf8 encoding succeeds (and displays
>> correctly)
>>
>
> My environment:
>
> Perl: v5.8.8 built for i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi
> LANG: en_US.UTF-8
> Vim: encoding=utf-8 fileencoding=utf-8 termencoding=utf-8
> Terminal: Gnome-Terminal w/ encoding set to "Current Locale (UTF-8)"
>
> Typing "cat corff.pl" prints the source code, complete with funny German
> scribbles over the vowels. ;-)
>
> Oh, and since it may be relevant:
> XML::Simple version 2.14
> XML::Parser version 2.34
> XML::SAX version 0.12
>
> Whoops, I think I just found the problem. When I was checking version
> numbers, I went ahead and checked CPAN for newer versions. After
> installing XML::SAX version 0.13, the code broke. Try downgrading to
> 0.12 and see if that fixes things. (You can find a copy at
> <http://search.cpan.org/~msergeant/XML-SAX-0.12/>.)
>
FWIW, I've been on a goose chase through the guts of XML::SAX::PurePerl,
and it seems both versions are horribly buggy with UTF-8. As a quick
fix, install either XML::SAX::Expat, XML::SAX::ExpatXS, or
XML::LibXML::SAX. All 3 seem to work just fine.
--
Donald King, a.k.a. Chronos Tachyon
http://chronos-tachyon.net/
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 2006 16:51:09 GMT
From: <corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: XML::Simple and utf8 woes
Message-Id: <48nv3tFks5feU1@uni-berlin.de>
Donald King <dlking@cpan.org> wrote:
: >
: > Typing "cat corff.pl" prints the source code, complete with funny German
: > scribbles over the vowels. ;-)
Yes, it does so.
: > Oh, and since it may be relevant:
: > XML::Simple version 2.14
: > XML::Parser version 2.34
: > XML::SAX version 0.12
: >
I'll look into that later today.
: FWIW, I've been on a goose chase through the guts of XML::SAX::PurePerl,
: and it seems both versions are horribly buggy with UTF-8. As a quick
: fix, install either XML::SAX::Expat, XML::SAX::ExpatXS, or
: XML::LibXML::SAX. All 3 seem to work just fine.
That sounds apalling. All the more as XML claims to use Unicode/utf8
as its encoding of choice, but very obviously though, developers of
the above-mentioned packages have potentially never tested their packages
with some true utf-8 data (perhaps including umlauts and Chinese).
Thank you very much for your efforts!
Oliver.
--
Dr. Oliver Corff e-mail: corff@zedat.fu-berlin.de
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 9093
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