[26682] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 8789 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Dec 23 06:05:32 2005
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 03:05:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 23 Dec 2005 Volume: 10 Number: 8789
Today's topics:
Re: Exiting without printing <joe@inwap.com>
Re: Exiting without printing <tintin@invalid.invalid>
Re: Exiting without printing <NoSPam@NoSpam.com>
Re: Exiting without printing (Anno Siegel)
Re: My Regexp XML Parser -> Structured Perl Data, Cut robic0
perl, v5.8.7 Windows 2003 PPM 3.3 <pekka_news@yahoo.co.uk>
Re: perl, v5.8.7 Windows 2003 PPM 3.3 <sisyphus1@nomail.afraid.org>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 23:03:43 -0800
From: Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: Exiting without printing
Message-Id: <rLGdnerGMaHDPDbeRVn-tg@comcast.com>
Daniel Kaplan wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Can someone direct me to the proper perldoc file which explains the easiest
> way to exit a Perl app?
>
> I am writing a script that is run by the server once an hour, not via a web
> browser. But a simple :
>
> exit (0); //causes Perl app to fail
I seriously doubt that, and I believe that you are confused.
Having a perl app fail and having the web server complain that
a CGI program did not conform CGI standards at two different things.
> If I precede it with :
>
> print $q->header();
> print "";
That is CGI syntax. If you invoke the app from a browser, that
is required. If you invoke the app from a cron job, that is not
required. If you invoke the app via the web server when there
is no browser in the picture, then you have the problem of
over complicating things, making it difficult on yourself.
> Then everything is ok. Maybe it's nothing, but it just bothers me to have
> to do this output which server no purpose.
I have scripts that can be invoke from the command line, from a cron
job, or from a browser. The script checks to see what kind of
environment is is running in. For the command line, output verbose
messages showing progress. For cron jobs (or any time STDIN is
not associated with a tty), output nothing. When running inside
a CGI environment, output the mandatory CGI headers.
How exactly is it "run by the server once an hour"?
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:16:10 +1300
From: "Tintin" <tintin@invalid.invalid>
Subject: Re: Exiting without printing
Message-Id: <LuNqf.10142$vH5.495387@news.xtra.co.nz>
"Daniel Kaplan" <NoSPam@NoSpam.com> wrote in message
news:1135305317.326877@nntp.acecape.com...
> <xhoster@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:20051222212120.241$sz@newsreader.com...
>
> What I am talking about here is a script that my server runs itself every
> hour (to clean up things, databases, etc.) .It's not from a browser,
> therefore no output is needed.
Run as a cronjob?
> As for failing I am talking the standard 500 error. Simply because I
don't
> print out something before hitting the exit (0) line.
If you are getting a HTTP 500 error, then the script must be running as a
CGI script. *Exactly* how is this script called and from where?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 05:14:02 -0500
From: "Daniel Kaplan" <NoSPam@NoSpam.com>
Subject: Re: Exiting without printing
Message-Id: <1135332847.162862@nntp.acecape.com>
"Joe Smith" <joe@inwap.com> wrote in message
news:rLGdnerGMaHDPDbeRVn-tg@comcast.com...
> I seriously doubt that, and I believe that you are confused.
> Having a perl app fail and having the web server complain that
> a CGI program did not conform CGI standards at two different things.
>
>> If I precede it with :
>>
>> print $q->header();
>> print "";
>
> That is CGI syntax. If you invoke the app from a browser, that
> is required. If you invoke the app from a cron job, that is not
> required. If you invoke the app via the web server when there
> is no browser in the picture, then you have the problem of
> over complicating things, making it difficult on yourself.
>
That's probably what it's all about then. AsI create this app, and debug
it, it's all run from my browser, then when the server runs it itself, it is
a cron job, so can probably remove the CGI related commands.
will try it that way and come back with a small script if that's not
it...and then remove any CGI from existing crons.
thanks to all....
------------------------------
Date: 23 Dec 2005 10:38:37 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Exiting without printing
Message-Id: <dogk3d$r1c$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Daniel Kaplan <NoSPam@NoSpam.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> "Joe Smith" <joe@inwap.com> wrote in message
> news:rLGdnerGMaHDPDbeRVn-tg@comcast.com...
>
> > I seriously doubt that, and I believe that you are confused.
> > Having a perl app fail and having the web server complain that
> > a CGI program did not conform CGI standards at two different things.
> >
> >> If I precede it with :
> >>
> >> print $q->header();
> >> print "";
> >
> > That is CGI syntax. If you invoke the app from a browser, that
> > is required. If you invoke the app from a cron job, that is not
> > required. If you invoke the app via the web server when there
> > is no browser in the picture, then you have the problem of
> > over complicating things, making it difficult on yourself.
> >
> That's probably what it's all about then. AsI create this app, and debug
> it, it's all run from my browser, then when the server runs it itself, it is
> a cron job, so can probably remove the CGI related commands.
Are you saying you are testing a cron job by running it as a CGI script?
That is wrong. The universal testing environment is a shell, and all
scripts (CGI, cron jobs, anything) should first be debugged in a a shell.
Then test it in the environment it is supposed to run in (don't forget
that step).
> will try it that way and come back with a small script if that's not
> it...and then remove any CGI from existing crons.
Indeed. It serves no purpose, it confuses the reader and it would
never gave got there without your unfortunate testing arrangement.
Anno
--
If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:42:08 -0800
From: robic0
Subject: Re: My Regexp XML Parser -> Structured Perl Data, Cut & Paste Version, No Module's (Vol I)
Message-Id: <bb6nq1dhtr0iu0ljvi7aot33g5o7nac8cs@4ax.com>
On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 23:59:06 -0800, robic0 wrote:
>This post is in response to someone who asked for help trying to
>parse xml into a data structure.
This will fix the final issues with "ForceArray".
Comments have an issue with enclosed "<" or ">" in this
version, other than that they will process normally.
Its a regex issue (shortcoming in my opinion) that can't
match a "not" string. Where I need <!--(all but "<!--")-->.
Where (.*)(?!<!--) won't work in an expression. But I'll
work around that.
This is version .901 from 12-22-05 is the one you want.
This is close to the last post as far as this newsgroup.
Sorry, but I had to get it stable. I've run this on every
big and wierd xml file I could get my hands on. I'm
satisfied with it.
See ya...
print <<EOM;
# XML Regex Parser
# Version .901 - 12/22/05
# Copyright 2005,
# by robic0-At-yahoo.com
# -----------------------
EOM
use strict;
use warnings;
use Data::Dumper;
#open DATA, "sumfile.xml" or die "can't open datafile...";
#my $gabage1 = join ('', <DATA>);
#close DATA;
my $gabage3 = '
<big name="asdf" date="33" >
asdf
<in1>
<!-- howdy f*%$olks -->
<in2>jjjj</in2>
<small biz="wefwf" ueue = "second" />
<!-- and still more -->
<bar><inside>asgfasdf<insF>2</insF>sdfb</inside></bar>
</in1>
<in2>some in3 content</in2>
asdfb
</big>
';
my @xml_strings = ($gabage3);
my $VERSION = .901;
my $debug = 1;
my $rmv_white_space = 1;
my $ForceArray = 0;
my $KeepRoot = 0;
my $KeepComments = 0;
## -- XML, start & end regexp substitution delimiter chars --
## match side , substitution side
## ----------------------/-------------------------------
my @S_dlim = ('\[' , '['); # use these for debug
my @E_dlim = ('\]' , ']');
#my @S_dlim = (chr(140) , chr(140)); # use these for production
#my @E_dlim = (chr(141) , chr(141));
## -- Process xml data --
##
for (@xml_strings)
{
print "\n",'='x30,"\n$_\n\n";
if ($rmv_white_space) {
s/>[\s]+</></g;
s/[\s]+</</g;
s/>[\s]+/>/g;
}
my $ROOT = {}; # container
my ($last_cnt, $cnt, $i) = (-1, 1, 0);
# should only need 2 iterations max, but wth
while ($cnt != $last_cnt && $i < 20)
{
$last_cnt = $cnt;
## <?XML-Version ?> , have to check the format of '<?'
while (s/<\?([^<>]*)\?>//i) {} # to void xml
versioning
# while (s/<\?([^<>]*)\?>/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/i)
{ print "$cnt <$1> = \n" if ($debug); $cnt++}
## <!-- Comments -->, nesting not processed,
## also comments can't have "<" or ">" this version.
if (!$KeepComments) {
while (s/<!--[^<>]*-->//s) {} # to void
comments
} else {
while
(s/<!--([^<>]*)-->/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/s) {
# while
(s/<!--([\w\s]*)(?!<!--)-->/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/s) {
print "$cnt <!-- --> = $1\n" if
($debug);
$ROOT->{$cnt} = { comment => $1 };
$cnt++;
}
}
## <Tag/> , no content
while
(s/<([0-9a-zA-Z]+)\/>/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/i) {
print "$cnt <$1> = \n" if ($debug);
$ROOT->{$cnt} = { $1 => '' };
$cnt++;
}
## <Tag Attributes/> , no content
while (s/<([0-9a-zA-Z]+)([ ]+[0-9a-zA-Z]+[ ]*=[
]*"[^<]*")+[ ]*\/>/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/i) {
print "$cnt <$1> = attr: $2\n" if ($debug);
$ROOT->{$cnt} = { $1 => getAttrHash($2) };
$cnt++;
}
## <Tag> Content </Tag>
while
(s/<([0-9a-zA-Z]+)>([^<]*)<\/\1>/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/i) {
print "$cnt <$1> = $2\n" if ($debug);
my $unknown = '';
if (length($2) > 0) {
my $hcontent = getContentHash($2,
$ROOT);
$unknown = $hcontent;
if (keys (%{$hcontent}) > 1) {
if (!$ForceArray) {
adjustForSingleItemArrays ($hcontent); }
} else {
if (exists
$hcontent->{'content'} && scalar(@{$hcontent->{'content'}}) == 1) {
if (!$ForceArray ) {
$unknown =
${$hcontent->{'content'}}[0];
} else {$unknown =
$hcontent->{'content'}; }
}
if (!$ForceArray) {
adjustForSingleItemArrays ($hcontent); }
}
}
$ROOT->{$cnt} = { $1 => $unknown };
$cnt++;
}
## <Tag Attributes> Content </Tag>
while (s/<([0-9a-zA-Z]+)([ ]+[0-9a-zA-Z]+[ ]*=[
]*"[^<]*")+[ ]*>([^<]*)<\/\1>/$S_dlim[1]$cnt$E_dlim[1]/i) {
print "$cnt <$1> = attr: $2, content: $3\n" if
($debug);
my $hattrib = getAttrHash($2);
if (length($3) > 0) {
my $hcontent = getContentHash($3,
$ROOT);
if (!$ForceArray) {
adjustForSingleItemArrays ($hcontent); }
while (my ($key,$val) = each
(%{$hcontent})) {
$hattrib->{$key} = $val;
}
}
$ROOT->{$cnt} = { $1 => $hattrib };
$cnt++;
}
if ($last_cnt != $cnt) {
$i++ ; print "** End pass $i\n" if ($debug);
}
}
if (/<|>/) {
print "($i) XML problem: malformed, syntax or tag
closure:\n$_";
} else {
print "\n** Itterations = $i\n** ForceArray =
$ForceArray\n** KeepRoot = $KeepRoot\n** KeepComments =
$KeepComments\n\n";
#print Dumper($ROOT);
my $outer_element = $cnt-1;
if (exists $ROOT->{$outer_element}) {
my $htodump = $ROOT->{$outer_element};
if (!$KeepRoot && keys (%{$htodump}) == 1) {
my ($key,$val) = each (%{$htodump});
$htodump = $val;
}
my $tmp = {};
%{$tmp} = %{$htodump};
print Dumper($tmp);
} else {print "nothing to output!\n";}
}
}
##
sub adjustForSingleItemArrays
{
my $href = shift;
## if $val is an array ref and has one element
## set $href->{$key} equal to the element
while (my ($key,$val) = each (%{$href})) {
if (ref($val) eq "ARRAY") {
if (scalar(@{$val}) == 1) {
$href->{$key} = $val->[0];
}
}
}
}
##
sub getAttrHash
{
my $attstr = shift;
my $ahref = {};
return $ahref unless (defined $attstr);
while ($attstr =~ s/[ ]*([0-9a-zA-Z]+)[ ]*=[ ]*"([^=]*)"[
]*//i) {
$ahref->{$1} = $2;
}
return $ahref;
}
##
sub getContentHash
{
my ($attstr,$hStore) = @_;
my $ahref = {};
return $ahref unless (defined $attstr && defined $hStore);
my @ary = ();
while ($attstr =~
s/([^<$S_dlim[0]$E_dlim[0]]+)|$S_dlim[0]([\d]+)$E_dlim[0]//i) {
if (defined $1) {
push (@ary, $1);
}
elsif (defined $2 && exists $hStore->{$2}) {
my ($key,$val) = each (%{$hStore->{$2}});
if (exists $ahref->{$key}) {
push (@{$ahref->{$key}}, $val);
} else {
$ahref->{$key} = [$val];
}
}
}
if (scalar(@ary) > 0) { $ahref->{'content'} = [@ary]; }
## if $val is an array ref and has one element and it
## is a hash ref, set {$key} equal to hash ref
if (!$ForceArray) {
while (my ($key,$val) = each (%{$ahref})) {
if (ref($val) eq "ARRAY") {
if (scalar(@{$val}) == 1 &&
ref($val->[0]) eq "HASH") {
$ahref->{$key} = $val->[0];
}
}
}
}
return $ahref;
}
__END__
# XML Regex Parser
# Version .901 - 12/22/05
# Copyright 2005,
# by robic0-At-yahoo.com
# -----------------------
==============================
<big name="asdf" date="33" >
asdf
<in1>
<!-- howdy f*%$olks -->
<in2>jjjj</in2>
<small biz="wefwf" ueue = "second" />
<!-- and still more -->
<bar><inside>asgfasdf<insF>2</insF>sdfb</inside></bar>
</in1>
<in2>some in3 content</in2>
asdfb
</big>
1 <small> = attr: biz="wefwf" ueue = "second"
2 <in2> = jjjj
3 <insF> = 2
4 <inside> = asgfasdf[3]sdfb
5 <bar> = [4]
6 <in1> = [2][1][5]
7 <in2> = some in3 content
8 <big> = attr: name="asdf" date="33", content: asdf[6][7]asdfb
** End pass 1
** Itterations = 1
** ForceArray = 0
** KeepRoot = 0
** KeepComments = 0
$VAR1 = {
'in2' => 'some in3 content',
'date' => '33',
'name' => 'asdf',
'content' => [
'asdf',
'asdfb'
],
'in1' => {
'small' => {
'ueue' => 'second',
'biz' => 'wefwf'
},
'bar' => {
'inside' => {
'insF' => '2',
'content' => [
'asgfasdf',
'sdfb'
]
}
},
'in2' => 'jjjj'
}
};
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:11:17 GMT
From: "Pekka Siiskonen" <pekka_news@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: perl, v5.8.7 Windows 2003 PPM 3.3
Message-Id: <FiOqf.52$IN1.28@read3.inet.fi>
I have installed perl 5.8.7 build 815 (MSI) from activestate to a fresh
Win2003 server [Version 5.2.3790] to create an up-to-date enviroment (have
used perl v5.6.1 build 635 on Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]) with no
problems so far.
Tried to start loading neccesary modules with ppm (3.3) but will not get
anywhere:
ppm> install dbi
PPM::PPD::init: not a PPD and not a file:
c:\
on page:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePerl/5.8/faq/ActivePerl-faq2.html
it says:
PPM (ppm) is installed when you install ActivePerl. On Windows systems
there are certain prerequisites for using PPM:
a.. To use CPAN, install Microsoft's nmake, which is available from:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q132084
b.. You also need a C compiler and environment installed, ideally Visual
C/C++ 6.0.
So, I got the Nmake15 and installed it (to \perl\bin\) but still am getting
nowhere. Should I really purchase C/C++ to get the "free" Perl install
modules? I must be missing something trivial -- what?
The MSVCR70.DLL is copied to \windows\system32\ -directory -- if that is
needed...
Any suggestions?
pekka
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 21:51:24 +1100
From: "Sisyphus" <sisyphus1@nomail.afraid.org>
Subject: Re: perl, v5.8.7 Windows 2003 PPM 3.3
Message-Id: <43abd710$0$17706$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
"Pekka Siiskonen" <pekka_news@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FiOqf.52$IN1.28@read3.inet.fi...
> I have installed perl 5.8.7 build 815 (MSI) from activestate to a fresh
> Win2003 server [Version 5.2.3790] to create an up-to-date enviroment (have
> used perl v5.6.1 build 635 on Windows 2000 [Version 5.00.2195]) with no
> problems so far.
>
> Tried to start loading neccesary modules with ppm (3.3) but will not get
> anywhere:
>
> ppm> install dbi
> PPM::PPD::init: not a PPD and not a file:
>
Yeah - I get the same, even though I'm pretty sure that I've been able to
'install DBI' in the past. It seems to be something that afflicts only the
DBI module. I find I can install other ActiveState ppm's. (I've just posted
to an ActiveState mailing list about this particular problem. If I get an
answer, I'll post a follow-up ... unless, in the meantime, someone here can
provide an explanation ... which is a distinct possibility.)
If version 1.48 will do you should be able to:
install http://theoryx5.uwinnipeg.ca/ppms/DBI.ppd
> c:\
>
> on page:
>
>
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/docs/ActivePerl/5.8/faq/ActivePerl-faq2.html
>
> it says:
> PPM (ppm) is installed when you install ActivePerl. On Windows systems
> there are certain prerequisites for using PPM:
>
> a.. To use CPAN, install Microsoft's nmake, which is available from:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q132084
> b.. You also need a C compiler and environment installed, ideally Visual
> C/C++ 6.0.
>
> So, I got the Nmake15 and installed it (to \perl\bin\) but still am
getting
> nowhere. Should I really purchase C/C++ to get the "free" Perl install
> modules? I must be missing something trivial -- what?
>
The use of 'CPAN.pm', 'nmake' and VC++ is being cited as an *alternative* to
ppm. You can go that way if you think it's worth the money. Personally, I
don't think it is worth the money. A better alternative is (imho) to install
dmake and the MinGW compiler - both of which are freely available, and both
of which work seamlessly with the latest build (815) of ActiveState perl. If
you want to use dmake and MinGW with earlier ActiveState builds then you
should also install ExtUtils::FakeConfig.
'dmake' is available from http://search.cpan.org/dist/dmake/ .
'MinGW' is available from http://www.mingw.org/download.shtml .
However, unless you have a particular interest in building modules yourself,
you'll probably find it simpler and more serviceable to use the ppm utility.
(It's just unfortunate that you found a "problem ppm" so early on :-)
> The MSVCR70.DLL is copied to \windows\system32\ -directory -- if that is
> needed...
>
With ppm's, VC++6.0, and MinGW it won't be needed. (It's only needed if you
use VC++7.0.)
Cheers,
Rob
------------------------------
Date: 23 Dec 2005 08:22:13 GMT
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
Message-Id: <43abb3b5$0$1763$8b463f8a@news.nationwide.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
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- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
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- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
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general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 8789
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