[26647] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 8754 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Dec 12 00:05:30 2005
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:05:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 11 Dec 2005 Volume: 10 Number: 8754
Today's topics:
Re: threads robic0
What is the reason for Perl? robic0
Re: What is the reason for Perl? xhoster@gmail.com
Re: What is the reason for Perl? robic0
Re: What is the reason for Perl? <nobody@bigpond.com>
Re: What is the reason for Perl? robic0
Re: Win32 thread vs fork <bart.lateur@pandora.be>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:34:45 -0800
From: robic0
Subject: Re: threads
Message-Id: <k3epp1lfggbhk1en747qm9m0ih6jcferhj@4ax.com>
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 06:56:57 GMT, Vespasian <ves@ves.net> wrote:
>The CPAN documentation on perl threads state the overhead of creating
>a thread is rather large. Anyone know why or could point me to a
>website that explains the reason.
>
>TIA,
>ves
Well, I warned you all the bullshit would come out, and it did.
Unix didn't have threads until Microsoft did, er showed them how.
So it seems windows is the natural api threading model.
The bullshit you read from the previous posters has to do with alot
of things. One is they don't know what a real os native,
kernel mode threading model is. Otherwise, they wouldn't be so
arogant as to push off what I said, which is the root of a
threading model.
That model is to save the state of the current thread of
execution, then switch to a different state. There is NO
making a duplicate copy of CODE for each thread. That
includes the Perl interpreter (forking, or spawning
a new process is different as it has a seperate "address
space". You know what that is don't you?)
Since there is no duplication of code in a new thread of
execution, theres only auto data, stack data and registers
that include segment pointers like SP, IP, to save state for.
Globals are inherintly shared in the native model and must
be specifically locked for exclusive access.
Note the difference between a new process and a new thread.
That being threads share the same address space, processes
do not. Threading means global (shared) data can be accessed by
any running thread in the process when its got focus
(aka: a time-slice).
But how does a interpreted language do threading?
Datawise, if its possible that language global
data within a thread (and we're talking threaded code
that are subroutines in Perl) can be modified within
a subroutine without data locks, then the only way the
interpreter can survive without forcing subroutines
to lock that data, is to create duplicate set of data
(auto-variables) for each thread. Remember, your Perl
subroutine is not the thread. The thread envelope has
to be enlarged so that your subroutine is the currently
running code that was called by the interpreter (all threads
of execution are called by a single copy of the interpreter)
with a different set of auto data. Auto data is that which is
declared within the block (I believe its lexical in Perleaz).
Given that, what seperate data is needed for each thread
in Perl. Well clearly, if Perl calls your code in a single
thread, all the data of the caller (interpreter) has to be
"auto-data" of the scope of the interpreter. Otherwise for
those to be considered global would need a lock for almost
every module in perl since they access main variables all
the time. The overhead now is on "auto data". Each
new thread creates a new copy of the interpreters auto data.
The scope of the currently running code has expanded to
now be the block of the interpreter, not of the single
subroutine.
Therein lies the absolute bullshit !!!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 17:38:25 -0800
From: robic0
Subject: What is the reason for Perl?
Message-Id: <ohkpp15b78vlhrpb8bcag801jd78ed0pb1@4ax.com>
Explain to me if you can why Perl is something I should use in
replacement to say C++ and a native API....
I say "if you can" because I'm interrested in your bullshit.
After 2 years newbie Perl (forced on me). I know the breadth
of it and the power boils down to package interfaced dll's
to the os by an extroidnary amount of contributors who don't
know when to hold off publishing, in lieu of the misguided
fame (and down in flames) it is thought (in their heads) to
bring.
C++ and native API, without complex workarounds (for
Perl language shortcomings the modules exhibit) is
about a thousand percent more reliable and faster.
Why should anybody invest time in a guessing game such
as Perl. Not Perl per-say, but modules that leave you
very short in the bottom line?
Let the bullshit begin .........->
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 2005 01:41:32 GMT
From: xhoster@gmail.com
Subject: Re: What is the reason for Perl?
Message-Id: <20051211204132.496$4x@newsreader.com>
robic0 wrote:
> Explain to me if you can why Perl is something I should use in
> replacement to say C++ and a native API....
You shouldn't. Perl is not for all people. You are apparently one of
them. Please stop using Perl. Please stop posting to Perl news groups.
Thanks,
Xho
--
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:13:20 -0800
From: robic0
Subject: Re: What is the reason for Perl?
Message-Id: <rrmpp1t6mhiceuiulo8l5df2p561cdv63q@4ax.com>
On 12 Dec 2005 01:41:32 GMT, xhoster@gmail.com wrote:
>robic0 wrote:
>You shouldn't. Perl is not for all people. You are apparently one of
>them. Please stop using Perl. Please stop posting to Perl news groups.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Xho
I may blow off Perl, I think I have the jist of it. Don't need to
limit myself to Perl like you. But I won't leave people like you
in the abyss because you have chosen to put all your eggs in a
$10/hr proffession. Believe me I will never forget it and never
ever stop trying to fix damaged brains as a result of the
contentious crap that emminates from here. Errr ah, you !!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:21:05 GMT
From: Gregory Toomey <nobody@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: What is the reason for Perl?
Message-Id: <439cde90@news.comindico.com.au>
robic0 wrote:
> Explain to me if you can why Perl is something I should use in
> replacement to say C++ and a native API....
> I say "if you can" because I'm interrested in your bullshit.
No you're not. You're interested in trolling.
GO AWAY.
gtoomey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 18:34:52 -0800
From: robic0
Subject: Re: What is the reason for Perl?
Message-Id: <g8opp155m53aooiijdlq1ccfekim9adrpl@4ax.com>
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:21:05 GMT, Gregory Toomey <nobody@bigpond.com>
wrote:
>robic0 wrote:
>
>> Explain to me if you can why Perl is something I should use in
>> replacement to say C++ and a native API....
>> I say "if you can" because I'm interrested in your bullshit.
>
>No you're not. You're interested in trolling.
>
>GO AWAY.
Got to forums for this kind of coersion.
Your a dickhead and a jackoff asshoe scumbag!
Don't answer the posted question or fuck you!!
Shit somewhere else.......>
>gtoomey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:42:47 GMT
From: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@pandora.be>
Subject: Re: Win32 thread vs fork
Message-Id: <ghapp1l0fn6amvvjo1hbvfs40t4909amg3@4ax.com>
Barry wrote:
>I haven't been able to find a good explanation.
How about this:
<http://www.geeksalad.org/odds/fork/all.shtml>
Mr. Peabody Explains fork()
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 8754
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