[26183] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 8372 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Aug 30 18:05:34 2005
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 30 Aug 2005 Volume: 10 Number: 8372
Today's topics:
Ant for Perl? <socyl@987jk.com.invalid>
Re: Ant for Perl? <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
autoflush() and how to find the code of a method... <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: Can I Force Perl to Bypass File Write Buffers? <hal@thresholddigital.com>
Re: Can I Force Perl to Bypass File Write Buffers? <hal@thresholddigital.com>
Re: Can I Force Perl to Bypass File Write Buffers? <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: comparing 2 arrays <sppNOSPAM@libello.com>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <markmcintyre@spamcop.net>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <albalmer@att.net>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <john@castleamber.com>
Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry <john@castleamber.com>
Re: MJD HOP influence <perl@my-header.org>
Re: What to expect to pay for website development and m <dragnet@internalysis.com>
Re: What to expect to pay for website development and m <af380@chebucto.ns.ca>
Re: What to expect to pay for website development and m <no.spam@box.invalid>
Re: What to expect to pay for website development and m <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Re: What to expect to pay for website development and m <me@charlessweeney.com>
Re: What to expect to pay for website development and m <SpamBlocked@tbdata.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:25:10 +0000 (UTC)
From: kj <socyl@987jk.com.invalid>
Subject: Ant for Perl?
Message-Id: <df24pl$t3d$1@reader2.panix.com>
Has anyone used Ant in conjunction with Perl?
I am considering it, in desperation, because I have not been able
to find a more Perl friendly tool for carrying out tasks with
dependencies.
Everything I have found out there is too specialized around the
problem of building a software distribution. In C. On Unix.
The tasks I have in mind have nothing to do with building software,
and only a small fraction of them have anything to do with generating
files from other files. In fact, most of the tasks involve
interrogating and/or updating a large database, or downloading
remote data.
I find that make and "make replacements" are too limited in how
they determine whether a task needs to be updated.
Ant, despite being in Java (which I don't like one bit), at least
offers more flexibility in how tasks are determined to be up-to-date.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
kj
P.S. I know about Cons, but I find its documentation useless; for
this reason alone, even if Cons met all my requirements I can't
recommend it to my team.
--
NOTE: In my address everything before the first period is backwards;
and the last period, and everything after it, should be discarded.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:29:42 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: Ant for Perl?
Message-Id: <Xns96C2A7CC1DDEBasu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
kj <socyl@987jk.com.invalid> wrote in news:df24pl$t3d$1@reader2.panix.com:
>
>
> Has anyone used Ant in conjunction with Perl?
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=ant&mode=all
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:13:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: autoflush() and how to find the code of a method...
Message-Id: <df27k8$fma$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Hal Vaughan
<hal@thresholddigital.com>], who wrote in article <Wc6dnQaSDP_qDIneRVn-iQ@comcast.com>:
> I have $| = 1 set, since I had to redirect output to a file for debugging
> and needed the errors to sync with the output, but it doesn't seem to make
> a difference in the problem I'm talking about. You seem to be the only
> person that has pointed out this doesn't effect the buffers directly.
Remember that $| affects the currently select(1arg)ed filehandle. Let
me see... Yes, the ->autoflush() method will do select()ing for you....
Hope this helps,
Ilya
P.S. I needed a lot of time to find the source of autoflush(). Best
try (do not know how to do it better so it would work if IO::Handle
would define it in an XSUB...; would some Emacs package help here?):
perl -MFileHandle -wdle "(my $fh = new FileHandle)->open(q[> xx]); $fh->autoflush(1)"
n
s
v
IO::Handle::autoflush(i:/perllib/lib/5.8.2/os2/IO/Handle.pm:465):
464 sub autoflush {
465==> my $old = new SelectSaver qualify($_[0], caller);
466: my $prev = $|;
467: $| = @_ > 1 ? $_[1] : 1;
468: $prev;
469 }
Actually, doing
n
|m $fh
thinks that autoflush() *is* in FileHandle module; it is not. Is it
some bug related to a change of semantic of
exists &function
vs
defined &function
recently?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:03:53 -0400
From: Hal Vaughan <hal@thresholddigital.com>
Subject: Re: Can I Force Perl to Bypass File Write Buffers?
Message-Id: <Wc6dnQaSDP_qDIneRVn-iQ@comcast.com>
Anno Siegel wrote:
> Simon Taylor <simon@unisolve.com.au> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>> Hal Vaughan wrote:
>> > I'm using Perl 5.6.1 (and in some cases 5.8) on Linux. I've noticed
>> > that when I'm processing files, that Perl writes in blocks, so it'll
>> > process a number of items, and instead of the file having one line at a
>> > time written to it, it'll get a whole block at once suddenly written to
>> > the disk.
>> >
>> > Is there any way to avoid this and force Perl to write each line as I
>> > use a "print" statement to output the line?
>>
>> You'll need to disable buffering by setting $| to non-zero.
>
> [good advice snipped]
>
> Just one note: "$| = 1" doesn't disable buffering, it enables
> auto-flushing. The buffer(s) remain in place and active, but after each
> print-statement the buffer is automatically emptied (presumably into the
> next buffer down
> the line). You still have character buffering (and you want it).
>
> Anno
I have $| = 1 set, since I had to redirect output to a file for debugging
and needed the errors to sync with the output, but it doesn't seem to make
a difference in the problem I'm talking about. You seem to be the only
person that has pointed out this doesn't effect the buffers directly.
Hal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:07:50 -0400
From: Hal Vaughan <hal@thresholddigital.com>
Subject: Re: Can I Force Perl to Bypass File Write Buffers?
Message-Id: <4K-dnWGPidPoPYneRVn-1Q@comcast.com>
xhoster@gmail.com wrote:
> Hal Vaughan <hal@thresholddigital.com> wrote:
>> I'm using Perl 5.6.1 (and in some cases 5.8) on Linux. I've noticed that
>> when I'm processing files, that Perl writes in blocks, so it'll process a
>> number of items, and instead of the file having one line at a time
>> written to it, it'll get a whole block at once suddenly written to the
>> disk.
>
> To answer the question you asked, check out the variable $|.
Thanks. I've used it and it helps with syncing out put so if I redirect
output to a file, the error messages and other output is synced, but it
doesn't seem to help here.
> To answer the question you didn't ask, your method isn't very good. If
> you are truly concerned about data integrity, use a transactional database
> for both the data and the log, and make sure both data write and log write
> are
> in the same transaction. Or make your program, upon restarting, tail the
> existing data file and figure out where to pick up based solely on the
> data
> file, and dispense with the logging altogether. Or do both--write the
> data into a database, and have the entry in the database by its own log.
I seriously thought about putting the info into a database, but there were a
number of reasons I didn't. Part is because different programs on
different systems can use this, and it works better to make the directory
shared through NFS and I'd rather share that than the database. I've also
got a stream of data coming in, and it has been working much better to save
it to a capture file. Trying to break it up into chunks so it could be put
into a database as it comes in would be a nightmare.
Thanks!
Hal
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:25:44 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Can I Force Perl to Bypass File Write Buffers?
Message-Id: <slrndh9g68.u1d.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Hal Vaughan <hal@thresholddigital.com> wrote:
> Perl writes in blocks,
> Is there any way to avoid this and force Perl to write each line as I use a
> "print" statement to output the line?
Your Question is Asked Frequently:
perldoc -q buffer
How do I flush/unbuffer an output filehandle? Why must I do this?
You must have missed it when you checked the Perl FAQ before
posting to the Perl newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:23:08 +0200
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9bastien_Cottalorda?= <sppNOSPAM@libello.com>
Subject: Re: comparing 2 arrays
Message-Id: <431479e1$0$18569$636a15ce@news.free.fr>
Anno Siegel a écrit :
> Sébastien Cottalorda <sppNOSPAM@libello.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
>>Anno Siegel a écrit :
>>
>>>Sébastien Cottalorda <sppNOSPAM@libello.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>>
>>>>Anno Siegel a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>>Sébastien Cottalorda <sppNOSPAM@libello.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Anno Siegel a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sébastien Cottalorda <sppNOSPAM@libello.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>>
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>A customer of mine, on internet, can plan a route that he want to do.
>>>>>>1st : Go to car park n°1
>>>>>>2nd : Go to car park n°3
>>>>>>3rd : Go to car park n°6
>>>>>>...
>>>>>>it represents @estimated array.
>
>
> [...]
>
>
>>>>>>But when he comes in monaco, he finally decides to come first to car
>>>>>>park n°6, then car park n°7, then car park n°1, ... and car park n°4.
>>>>>>It represents @arrived array.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I need, when he want to exit a car park, to ask him if he plan to go to
>>>>>>the next car park n°....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It looks like you *don't* want to ask him...
>>>>
>>>>In fact, I would like to predict his new car park *according* to the
>>>>original planning.
>>>>I gave a complicate example with, I think, all possibility.
>>>>a less complicated example is :
>>>>@estimated (1 2 3 1 6 12);
>>>>@arrived (1 6);
>>>>because the customer arrived in late in monaco, he decides to make less
>>>>visit and goes to the 3 last car parks, respectively 1, 6 and ... => 12.
>>>>
>>>>When he exits of the car park n°6, I *want* him to tell me if he plans
>>>>to go to car park ...12 because I need to tell him if the car park if
>>>>free or full.
>>>
>>>
>>>Okay... There's always a possibility that the recorded arrivals match
>>>at more than one place in the plan, so we can't expect the prediction
>>>to be unique. Here is a sketch how to go about it:
>>>
>>> my @estimated = qw(1 2 3 1 6 12);
>>> my @arrived = qw( 1 6);
>>>
>>> my @matches = grep match_at( $_, \ @arrived, \ @estimated),
>>> 0 .. $#estimated - @arrived;
>>>
>>> my @predictions = map $estimated[ $_ + @arrived], @matches;
>>>
>>> print "predictions: @predictions\n";
>>>
>>> sub match_at {
>>> my ( $i, $arr, $est) = @_;
>>> for ( 0 .. $#$arr ) {
>>> return 0 unless $est->[ $i + $_] == $arr->[ $_];
>>> }
>>> return 1;
>>> }
>>>
>>>In this case, the prediction is unique: 12, but it is easy to
>>>construct examples where it isn't.
>>
>>In a recursive way I see:
>>
>>1st path:
>> 1-> 0st element of @estimated
>> 6-> 6th element of @estimated
>
> 4th
>
>> ==> next car parc = 7th element of @estimated ==> "12"
>
> 5th
>
>>2nd path:
>> 1-> 3rd element of @estimated
>> 6-> 6th element of @estimated
>
> 4th
>
>> ==> next car parc = 7th element of @estimated ==> "12"
>
> 5th
>
>>I've 2 differents ways, both gives car parc 12 as a result .
>
>
> Ugh. A diagram with two kinds of arrows, none of which is explained.
>
> All I can see from it is that you arrive at 12 because 6 precedes it,
> but in fact the second "path" is a much better match because it has
> two consecutive matches at 3 and 4. How would a recursive routine
> make use of that?
You're true, the best one is the "path" 3-4 that allow to "predict" 12
> Mind you, I'm sure you can come up with a recursive function to solve
> this (you almost always can). The big question about recursion is
> when *not* to use it (it is inefficient and usually harder to understand
> than a non-recursive solution). I don't see how your problem naturally
> splits off a smaller partial problem that can be solved in the same way.
> That is the usual indicator for a recursive approach.
>
>
>>I'm impressed by your code.
>>
>>I've checked that couple with your program:
>>my @estimated = qw(1 2 3 1 6 5 7 0 9);
>>my @arrived = qw(1 6 5 0);
>>but it doesn't predicate anything.
>
>
> No, it wouldn't. As I said, the code doesn't deal with errors in the
> data. It needs a perfect match anywhere in the @estimated array to
> make a prediction.
but I need only a approximation.
>>Normaly it should predicate 9.
I can suppose that the customer didn't go to car parc 7 and goes on his
travel => predict 9
> On what ground? You seem to assume he skipped 7. If he swapped
> 0 and 7, the prediction would have to be 7. You need to define
> an (idealized) behavior of your client to make predictions about it.
> So far your haven't done that.
You're true too, but I only need a help for my customer.
I permiss me to do mistakes.
> Anno
Never mind, I don't want you to lost your time with my problem, Anno, I
thank you a lot for your help.
I'll go on looking for that solution, and if I'm not happy with the
result, I'll throw away that function.
Sebastien
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:09:22 +0100
From: Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <kjt8h11sujed8fe0oo9ok35p3jr647bon8@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:30:19 GMT, in comp.lang.c ,
axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
>Why do I think of a Dutch expression 'mieren neuker' with regards to
>Balmer's posts?
Its a complete mystery. Just as is the reason why you are x-posting
complete garbage to comp.lang.c...
--
Mark McIntyre
CLC FAQ <http://www.eskimo.com/~scs/C-faq/top.html>
CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:53:36 -0700
From: Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <a879h1p2n3pganemkvh64kf1o2qalkprqv@4ax.com>
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:30:19 GMT, axel@white-eagle.invalid.uk wrote:
>In comp.lang.perl.misc John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
>> Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
>
>>> On 29 Aug 2005 21:12:13 GMT, John Bokma <john@castleamber.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Now, go away. And please, stay away.
>
>>>>Like I already said, it doesn't work that way.
>
>>> Goodbye, John. Filters set.
>
>> Saidly you didn't get the message. Moreover you think that the Usenet
>> /needs/ a public ploink message. Get a clue. People like you add more noise
>> to Usenet compared to a thread which runs a bit wide.
>
>Why do I think of a Dutch expression 'mieren neuker' with regards to
>Balmer's posts?
>
Another obnoxious cross-poster identified. Thank you.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis@att.net
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 2005 18:06:48 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <Xns96C2853C914A5castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Its a complete mystery. Just as is the reason why you are x-posting
>complete garbage to comp.lang.c...
A similar mystery as in why Mark clueless n00b II McIntyre thinks it's a
good idea to cross post to all other groups except comp.lang.c?
Again: stop trolling in this thread.
Let it go, it will die out in 1 or 2 days
If you keep trolling, posting your ploinks, or witty comments, it will go
on for days and days.
Mark, as a C programmer you must at least have some idea of what logic
means.
--
John Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 2005 18:09:30 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Jargons of Info Tech industry
Message-Id: <Xns96C285B2245ACcastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
> Another obnoxious cross-poster identified. Thank you.
You mean Alan clueless n00b Balmer? At least you got the follow up doesn't
work the first time. Try to get the other message I wrote as well:
ignore this thread, it will stop in 1-2 days out of itself.
If you keep feeding it, it will last much and much longer.
Or did we just met Alan the clueless n00b troll Balmer?
--
John Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 20:40:03 +0200
From: Matija Papec <perl@my-header.org>
Subject: Re: MJD HOP influence
Message-Id: <it99h194k22616d8ruufgbcq4om69i5ehm@4ax.com>
X-Ftn-To: Anno Siegel
>Then please explain the terms: What are objects in this implementation,
>what are methods and what are classes. I can't think of an OO system
>that doesn't define these.
See below.
>I haven't read HOP cover to cover yet. Perhaps you could point out
>what part of the book stimulated your code so others can read up on
>the background.
At the beginning Mark wrote that functional and OO approach are solving the
same problems so I've tried if functional could simulate OO.
>> This example has *some* OO qualities like object methods and inheritance; in
>> that way it follows OO paradigm (OO paradigm in general, not that of perl).
>
>What are the object methods, and what are objects, and how does
>inheritance happen? Normally inheritance goes from one class to another.
>Without defining what classes are, it is impossible to even talk about
>inheritance.
Sorry, I thought this is obvious; "classes" are sub Parent and sub Child,
object is what you get after calling either of these two ($obj), and class
methods are defined in %$m. If $obj comes from Child, it can call all Child
methods in addition to those defined in Parent as Child is inheriting from
Parent (usebase => \&Parent defines this relationship).
Beside, Child can override Parent methods but it can also call them via
$SUPER.
>> >Otherwise, classes whose objects are coderefs offer better protection
>> >(and harder access to) the the object variables, assuming that the
>> >object variables are implemented as private lexicals. They are usually
>> >harder to deal with than more conventional implementations. The size
>>
>> Yes; unfortunately I'm not sure if you can inherit from such class; perhaps
>> building parent so it can provide data container for it's children?
>
>With a standard implementation of a Perl class with objects that happen
>to be coderefs, inheritance happens like with any other Perl class.
>As usual in Perl OO, it depends on the implementation of the base
>class whether inheritance is easy, hard or impossible. There is
>nothing fundamentally different from classes whose objects are (say)
>hashrefs.
Perhaps, but possibility to inherit from class which uses scalar/coderef
goes more often toward impossible then it would go in case when base class
uses hashref. If it isn't much trouble, can you point to good example of
class using coderefs and it's easily inheritable?
>> >of the class (in terms of number and complexity of methods) has little
>> >to do with the advantages and drawbacks of this approach.
>>
>> Now that you mention this, I can only say that my OO coderefs doesn't suffer
>> completely like blessed ones. :)
>
>Sorry, I don't understand this sentence.
In my example coderefs are some kind of objects and my base class doesn't
have to worry how it could be inherited by other class, as opposed to
blessed coderef, where their class *has to think* about possible
inheritance.
--
Matija
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:43:28 -0500
From: Marc Bissonnette <dragnet@internalysis.com>
Subject: Re: What to expect to pay for website development and maintenance?
Message-Id: <Xns96C281746EC09dragnetinternalysisc@216.196.97.131>
Blinky the Shark <no.spam@box.invalid> wrote in
news:slrndh7foe.bpj.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net:
> Marc Bissonnette wrote:
>
>> Generally, I think you'll find most of us geeks fairly accomodating
>> when given enough data to work with (And if you think a.w.w. is
>> rough, try asking a really dumb question in comp.lang.perl.misc - and
>> yes, I've been spanked in the past, in that newsgroup, for doing just
>> that :)
>
> Once is normal. If you kept going back for more, it was a fetish. ;)
LOL. Actually, looking back, I rather ambarassed myself by getting all
indignant at the "unhelpful" nature of the regulars in comp.lang.perl.misc.
Once I got over myself, though, I realized that the guidelines/FAQs, etc
really *do* help one become a better programmer. That, and the fact that
more often than not, in figuring out the right *question* to ask, one tends
to come up with the right answer, before posting to the ng :)
This is probably the best resource in asking for help from newsgroups:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
(X-Posted to c.l.p.m. as an admission of "you guys were right, I was wrong
- glad I learned from it and thanks :) )
--
Marc Bissonnette
CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.com
Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:04:46 -0300
From: "Norman L. DeForest" <af380@chebucto.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: What to expect to pay for website development and maintenance?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.95.iB1.0.1050830135721.5388A-100000@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca>
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Marc Bissonnette wrote:
[snip]
> LOL. Actually, looking back, I rather ambarassed myself by getting all
> indignant at the "unhelpful" nature of the regulars in comp.lang.perl.misc.
>
> Once I got over myself, though, I realized that the guidelines/FAQs, etc
> really *do* help one become a better programmer. That, and the fact that
> more often than not, in figuring out the right *question* to ask, one tends
> to come up with the right answer, before posting to the ng :)
[snip]
I remember reading about a university support desk for student programmers
that had a teddy bear in the reception area. An ironclad rule was that
any student wanting help with his/her program had to describe the problem
to the teddy bear in complete detail before asking the actual support
people. Just describing the problem to the bear was often enough for a
student to realise where he/she was going wrong. Apparently the teddy
bear was responsible for solving more than half of the support desk
enquiries.
--
``Why don't you find a more appropiate newsgroup to post this tripe into?
This is a meeting place for a totally differnt kind of "vision impairment".
Catch my drift?'' -- "jim" in alt.disability.blind.social regarding an
off-topic religious/political post, March 28, 2005
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 2005 17:56:05 GMT
From: Blinky the Shark <no.spam@box.invalid>
Subject: Re: What to expect to pay for website development and maintenance?
Message-Id: <slrndh97dk.i7q.no.spam@thurston.blinkynet.net>
Marc Bissonnette wrote:
> LOL. Actually, looking back, I rather ambarassed myself by getting all
> indignant at the "unhelpful" nature of the regulars in comp.lang.perl.misc.
>
> Once I got over myself, though, I realized that the guidelines/FAQs, etc
> really *do* help one become a better programmer. That, and the fact that
> more often than not, in figuring out the right *question* to ask, one tends
> to come up with the right answer, before posting to the ng :)
>
> This is probably the best resource in asking for help from newsgroups:
> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
I give that link often.
You might enjoy this:
http://blinkynet.net/comp/dontask.html
--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Killing All Posts from GG: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
End Of The Good GG Archive GUI: http://blinkynet.net/comp/gggui.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:41:20 +0100
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What to expect to pay for website development and maintenance?
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0508301939210.9224@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk>
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005, Blinky the Shark wrote:
> You might enjoy this:
>
> http://blinkynet.net/comp/dontask.html
Short and to the point, eh?
I liked this sample:
|| Please stop answering my quetsions. This is useless.
I'd have been sorely tempted to respond "Oh no, this is Usenet".
SCNR. All the best
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 2005 20:02:45 GMT
From: Charles Sweeney <me@charlessweeney.com>
Subject: Re: What to expect to pay for website development and maintenance?
Message-Id: <Xns96C2D6284ED23mecharlessweeneycom@130.133.1.4>
Norman L. DeForest wrote
> I remember reading about a university support desk for student
> programmers that had a teddy bear in the reception area. An ironclad
> rule was that any student wanting help with his/her program had to
> describe the problem to the teddy bear in complete detail before
> asking the actual support people. Just describing the problem to the
> bear was often enough for a student to realise where he/she was going
> wrong. Apparently the teddy bear was responsible for solving more
> than half of the support desk enquiries.
Brilliant!
I find that myself. Asking the question (as if you were asking another
person) very often produces the answer.
--
Charles Sweeney
http://CharlesSweeney.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:30:53 +0100
From: "William Tasso" <SpamBlocked@tbdata.com>
Subject: Re: What to expect to pay for website development and maintenance?
Message-Id: <op.swb8lrqrm9g4qz-wnt@tbdata.com>
Writing in news:alt.www.webmaster,comp.lang.perl.misc
From the safety of the No thank you cafeteria
Charles Sweeney <me@charlessweeney.com> said:
> Norman L. DeForest wrote
>> ...
>> Apparently the teddy bear was responsible for solving more
>> than half of the support desk enquiries.
>
> Brilliant!
>
> I find that myself. Asking the question (as if you were asking another
> person) very often produces the answer.
Every good cop needs a side-kick - just so the audience can keep up with
the plot :)
--
William Tasso
** Business as usual
------------------------------
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 8372
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