[25781] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 8020 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Apr 27 14:05:31 2005
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 27 Apr 2005 Volume: 10 Number: 8020
Today's topics:
Re: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released! <nobody@nowhere.nohow>
Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta releas brianr@liffe.com
Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta releas (Seymour J.)
Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta releas <cbbrowne@ca.afilias.info>
Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta releas <donal.k.fellows@manchester.ac.uk>
How to upload some file on web server <max@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Re: How to upload some file on web server <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: one-time and one-line programs (Anno Siegel)
perl6 <nobody@this.home.com>
Re: perl6 <john@castleamber.com>
Re: perl6 <nobody@this.home.com>
Re: print table inside while <asoNOSPAMlkar@gmail.com>
Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta release (Fu Limin)
Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta release (Fu Limin)
Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta rel <asnd@triumf.ca>
Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta rel <donal.k.fellows@manchester.ac.uk>
Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta rel <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta rel <eFGHgrieda789@bahooyahoo.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 19:18:27 +0800
From: "Dave Turner" <nobody@nowhere.nohow>
Subject: Re: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <426f7594$1@quokka.wn.com.au>
Can you list some things that your Tao script can do that PHP cant? or
other advantages?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:11:42 +0100
From: brianr@liffe.com
Subject: Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <vtmzrkfmgx.fsf@ssdevws28.admin.liffe.com>
Perhaps a name that isn't already being used might reduce confusion
(or should that be Confucius) ?
See http://www.cs.wustl.edu/~schmidt/TAO.html
--
Brian Raven
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:35:38 -0300
From: "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid>
Subject: Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <426efa7a$9$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>
In <b35444fb.0504260741.226944fb@posting.google.com>, on 04/26/2005
at 08:41 AM, fu.limin.tao@gmail.com (Fu Limin) said:
>I am glad to announce in this forum that the lastest version of a new
>scripting language Tao has come out.
How nice. What does it have to do with Icon?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:53:00 GMT
From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne@ca.afilias.info>
Subject: Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <60u0lsz2yg.fsf@dba2.int.libertyrms.com>
fu.limin.tao@gmail.com (Fu Limin) writes:
> Dear all,
>
> I am glad to announce in this forum that the lastest version of a new
> scripting language Tao has come
> out. Welcome to try it out!
>
> =======================
> Here are some details:
> =======================
>
> ==========
> Summary:
> ==========
> Tao is an object-oriented scripting language with dynamic-typing
> variables supporting complex data structures. It has powerful text
> processing ability such as string regular expression matching. It
> provides built-in numerical data types such as complex number and
> multi-dimensional numeric array, and their corresponding operations
> and computations are very convenient in Tao. It can be easily extended
> with C++, through a simple and transparent interface.
From what I can see, most of the interesting features of Icon are left
out, such as generators, continuations, directed goal search, and
such.
If your language leaves out all of the sorts of features that would
represent the reasons why one might continue to use a scripting
language as "obscure" as Icon, why would you imagine that it would be
of any interest to Icon users?
--
"cbbrowne","@","ca.afilias.info"
<http://dev6.int.libertyrms.com/>
Christopher Browne
(416) 673-4124 (land)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:15:30 +0100
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows@manchester.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <d4oa6t$2k5s$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
Christopher Browne wrote:
> From what I can see, most of the interesting features of Icon are left
> out, such as generators, continuations, directed goal search, and
> such.
That's funny because I see generators and continuations in there, at
least in restricted form. Search for "yield" in his documentation. :^)
Donal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:17:26 +0200
From: "max" <max@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: How to upload some file on web server
Message-Id: <d4nvsh$av4$1@ss405.t-com.hr>
a.. How to upload some file on web server (FTP?) with single Perl script.
b.. Where I can found Perl FAQ in PDF, or Zip file?
Tnx.
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:40:40 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: How to upload some file on web server
Message-Id: <3d9fjrF6p56etU1@individual.net>
max wrote:
> a.. How to upload some file on web server (FTP?) with single Perl script.
A convenient way is by using the CPAN module CGI::UploadEasy.
http://search.cpan.org/perldoc?CGI%3A%3AUploadEasy
> b.. Where I can found Perl FAQ in PDF, or Zip file?
Don't know about PDF or zip, but you find an overview of available
online docs at http://www.perl.org/docs.html
Assuming you are on a Windows box, I recommend that you install the
bundle at http://www.indigostar.com/indigoperl.htm
That gives you Perl with Apache and PHP, and you get the whole Perl docs
(incl. the FAQ) conveniently available as HTML pages.
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 2005 13:36:54 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: one-time and one-line programs
Message-Id: <d4o4hm$q1v$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Abigail <abigail@abigail.nl> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> perl -pe '}{*_=*.}{' file # wc -l
Nice. Why {*_=*.} and not {$_=$.}? Just obfuscation?
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:12:17 +0200
From: Krystian <nobody@this.home.com>
Subject: perl6
Message-Id: <v7pu61dktdcc3k64m8m0sgllad6rsr5ffv@4ax.com>
hi there
do you know anything about how fast perl6 programs will run? eg in
comparison with java, c etc... when will perl6 show up?
best
K
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 2005 10:19:33 GMT
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: perl6
Message-Id: <Xns964536019E344castleamber@130.133.1.4>
Krystian wrote:
> hi there
> do you know anything about how fast perl6 programs will run?
By the time it's finished faster on (then current) hardware compared to
perl5 on current hardware now, I guess :-D.
A speed comparison with java, c etc... sounds odd to me. Speed is not the
only important thing about a language, in some cases it's even not
important :-)
--
John Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 13:58:00 +0200
From: Krystian <nobody@this.home.com>
Subject: Re: perl6
Message-Id: <g7vu615ld3pesg7huilsc1q7m9c37v4uue@4ax.com>
>A speed comparison with java, c etc... sounds odd to me. Speed is not the
>only important thing about a language, in some cases it's even not
>important :-)
yep.. but focus of my interest fall into game development and graphics
programming where speed is the critical issue. so this is why i asked.
i found Perl to be the best language for fast prototyping and trying
out some ideas. my productivity increased about 100% when i start
using IT with even not so good practice and experience with IT :) so
i'm looking forward what will come from Wall and his friends ...
best ragards
K
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:24:13 -0700
From: Mahesh Asolkar <asoNOSPAMlkar@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: print table inside while
Message-Id: <Qu2dnTxIlOQzIfLfRVn-tw@comcast.com>
Nikos wrote:
> Mahesh Asolkar wrote:
>
> Yes iam seekign that exatcly you describes but for some reason the table
> formatting does not being applied although the path to the style.css
> file is correct and the formatiing directives in the file is this:
>
There could be so many factors affecting this. Someone in the CSS
related group should help you better. But in any case...
> #info games {
I think this needs to be,
#info .games {
> background-image : url(/data/images/blue.jpg);
> width: 80%;
> color: lime;
> text-align: center;
> font: 18px comic;
> border: 8px ridge magenta;
> border-collapse: : collapse;
> }
>
> I dont see neither alignment, neither colors, neither table borders,
> neither backgrounds nothing at all.
I'd make sure that the table is contained in a 'div' with id="info".
>
> I run your code but what i see is the rows one after another even
> without a '\n' after each row.
If you mean the page source is not pretty, try using CGI::Pretty instead.
Mahesh.
--
Mahesh Asolkar
asolkar-at-gmail-dot-com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 2005 06:49:19 -0700
From: fu.limin.tao@gmail.com (Fu Limin)
Subject: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <b35444fb.0504270549.1966ccec@posting.google.com>
julian@webpub.net (julian@webpub.net) wrote:
> That logo cracks me up. A button with a pair of underpants on it!??
> What happens when you push the button? Does a mechanical arm reach out
> and give you a wedgie?
Oops, I didn't expect you would think in this way. I wanted people to
guess it, so I didn't put the explanation on the webpage. But I really
didn't expect you would have that impression.
You can find a simple explanation of this log in the preface of the
language documentation. I copy it
here:
It includes three layers, the upper layer is in the center, resembling
'T'.
The middle layer is a circle with a tail, resembling 'a'. And the
bottom
layer is a "Taiji" pattern which connects this Tao to that "Tao" in
Chinese culture. With its central part covered, it forms an 'o'.
PS. to everybody here,
Sorry for posting this reply(also other replies from me) as new
thread,
I have trouble to reply it in the normal way.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 2005 08:51:00 -0700
From: fu.limin.tao@gmail.com (Fu Limin)
Subject: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <b35444fb.0504270751.57309ef1@posting.google.com>
> In what ways is your language distinctive?
Well, I think the most distinctive feature is the integration of powerful
text processing ability and powerful numerical computation with a
simple syntax for them. I also try to support a simple and transparent
interface to C++. Though there is still a long way to go, I think the
status of Tao is promising, in fact I already benefit from it in my
research where both text processing and numerically computation are
important, for which I "suffered" a lot from using Perl in the beginning,
which drived me to design my own one ^_^
How does developing your own
> language (as opposed to making stronger one of the languages whose
> newsgroups you've posted to) make the sum of human experience richer?
For the existing languages, I think they have already stabilized a kind of
philosophy, and something have already got complicated. So I think it
would be more difficult for me to dive into them. Anyway, I believe it
worth trying to design a new language, if I found it more usesful in some
work than the other languages, somebody will also find this. A new option
is not bad thing.
> And do any of these observations/questions below help you explain these
> larger matters? :^)
Yes, thank you for your time to make these observations/question and
suggestions.
> Odd things I've noticed in a quick trawl through your docs:
> * What no bit-ops? And why give ^ a non C/C++ meaning?
My using of ^ as power is influenced by Matlab. In the beginning I didn't
know it is also used in C/C++.
> * What sort of characters are you using?
For strings, I use stl::string, so I didn't care about this.
But for byte type numeric array, I used unsigned char.
> * How does passing by reference square with constant arguments?
In Tao constants are also represented by objects, their passing by reference
are the same as other types of objects.
> * Your I/O interface has a /long/ way to go!
Right. I haven't concentrated on this part. The status of IO support
deosn't conform to the version number which increased too rapidly :-)
> * The complex number and matrix stuff seems reasonable.
Yes, this is one of the important features I intended to have in Tao.
In fact, I spent much time on implementing them, and they contributed
to half of the size of the compiled codes. I believe this part is one
of the best implemented part. Some of the operations for numeric
arrays are even more convenient than Matlab. Now a very simple
and transparent interface is supported to pass numeric types to and
from C++ modules, so the next step to support powerful numeric
computation in Tao is to find somebody or by myself to write
bindings to some commonly used numerical packages.
> * It is probably a good idea to add something like a C/C++ switch; it
> might only be syntactic sugar around if, but good syntax makes a
> difference.
Yes, I will do it.
> * Given that you are using mutable objects, do you have a way for
> someone to force a duplicate of an arbitrary object? That would make
> doing things like security separation much easier.
If you mean data object, yes, but it's not available for users yet. Now it is
mainly used for passing Tao data types to C++ modules, where each Tao
object can be copied and converted into its C++ equivalent object
(though internally they are all C++ objects, but the object used in C++
modules is different from the one used in Tao interpreter, e.g. TaoHash is
used in the interpreter, while TcHash is used in C++ module, the conversion
or copying keep its structure including cyclic ones).
But for class or routine objects, no, I will support this when I started to
support multi-threading.
I should point out (since I am afraid I misunderstood something
of you in this point), the assignment in Tao is simpily a new binding
of object to pointer even if the objects in two side of assignment are
or the same type (except for assign new values to numeric array elements).
> * The ~~ operator is neat.
> * Do you have some kind of subtype operator?
Not yet. Yes, I should support it, it can be useful for checking
type of numeric arrays and objects of Tao class. Though now
Tao can well check the types of two objects are the same or
different, e.g., if aa is an object of class AA and bb is an object
of class BB, aa=?AA, bb=?BB, will give true, and aa=?bb will give
false.
> * Are classes, namespaces and modules all objects? Can you introspect
> on them to discover what exists and what you can do with them?
Yes, they are all objects. But no mechanism is provided to introspect
them, I had thought about supporting this, but it simply slipped my mind.
You remind me ^_^
Best regards,
Limin
------------------------------
Date: 27 Apr 2005 04:59:44 -0700
From: Donald Arseneau <asnd@triumf.ca>
Subject: Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <yfi8y34ctvz.fsf@triumf.ca>
"Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows@manchester.ac.uk> writes:
> * What no bit-ops? And why give ^ a non C/C++ meaning?
If it means exponentiation, I'm in favor! (I haven't looked.)
--
Donald Arseneau asnd@triumf.ca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:44:39 +0100
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows@manchester.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <d4o4si$2irb$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>
Donald Arseneau wrote:
> If it means exponentiation, I'm in favor! (I haven't looked.)
He's doing that, but that means there's no bitwise xor (or other bitwise
ops). In Tcl (8.5), we use ** for exponentiation instead so we get to
have our cake and eat it.
[F'ups set; I doubt this subthread's going to stay interesting to
non-Tclers...]
Donal.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 16:32:15 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <Xns96457F7394488asu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
fu.limin.tao@gmail.com (Fu Limin) wrote in
news:b35444fb.0504270549.1966ccec@posting.google.com:
[ follow-ups set to comp.lang.perl.misc ]
> PS. to everybody here,
Here where?
> Sorry for posting this reply(also other replies from me) as new
> thread, I have trouble to reply it in the normal way.
* PLONK *
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 17:35:31 GMT
From: "Earl Grieda" <eFGHgrieda789@bahooyahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re ANN: A new scripting language Tao 0.9.0 beta released!
Message-Id: <D3Qbe.118$HL2.85@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>
"Donal K. Fellows" <donal.k.fellows@manchester.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:d4nmjp$2eb1$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...
> Fu Limin wrote:
> > Honest saying, I didn't intend to draw people from other languages, I
> > was just trying to implement a language in a way that I think it
> > should be, and provide people another option. Of course, there will
> > be some features in Tao will not be available in PHP, e.g., built-in
> > types for numerical computation, as pointed out by Ara.T.Howard.
>
> In what ways is your language distinctive? How does developing your own
> language (as opposed to making stronger one of the languages whose
> newsgroups you've posted to) make the sum of human experience richer?
> And do any of these observations/questions below help you explain these
> larger matters? :^)
>
Yes, my personal opinion is we need less languages, not more. This industry
has developed a Tower of Babel and it is hindering us in productivity.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 8020
***************************************
