[25330] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 7575 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Dec 27 00:05:54 2004
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:05:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 26 Dec 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 7575
Today's topics:
>>>DO NOT LISTEN TO PAYPAL POSTS<<< <donotlisten@topaypalposts.com>
Re: How to navigate the docs? <wksmith@optonline.net>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <george_coxanti@spambtinternet.com.invalid>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
Re: Is zero even or odd? <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
Re: Perl interface to Unix ps? <gogala@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Problem with Open Perl IDE <gogala@sbcglobal.net>
Re: Problem with Open Perl IDE <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: Problem with Open Perl IDE <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: Return all points with x km of y <sarita.moodie@gmail.com>
Re: Sessions with only standard modules <l.fellmann@free.fr>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:31:32 GMT
From: Matt<donotlisten@topaypalposts.com>
Subject: >>>DO NOT LISTEN TO PAYPAL POSTS<<<
Message-Id: <UBJzd.12368$Pv5.9549@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>
DO NOT LISTEN TO PAYPAL POSTS!
IGNORE MY LAST POST!, IGNORE IT COMPLETELY!
DO NOT PART WITH ANY MONEY!
I have recently been taken in, I have thrown away many spam emails and ignored many posts before. But the idea that this is legal because people are knowingly paying to add their name to a list, sounded good!
Since sending the post I have received many emails, and I fear to say that I have un knowingly managed to get myself into some serious shit!, only sending the paypal post yesterday I have not heard from the local authorities although I am expecting them to call, I have however contacted my local police station myself, who have basically told me that as long as any money paid to me is returned and I do not accept any of it. That is the best I can do for now. However a member of the computer crime dept will be in touch though as he feared I still may have commited other internet related crimes that I was not aware of.
I do not have the ability to remove my last post, so all I can do to try and put things right is to send another!
WARNING others of the consequeses you to may face if you respond in the way i have!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:55:00 -0500
From: "Bill Smith" <wksmith@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: How to navigate the docs?
Message-Id: <6GMzd.15895$Xh3.1185@fe12.lga>
"Anno Siegel" <anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:cqehb2
--snip--
>
> > When this fails, I also grep the .pod files. I wish that someone
would
> > write a program that uses the algorithm in perldloc to find the .pod
> > files of interest, and then searches through each of them with a
regular
> > expression the way that grep does.
>
> Yes, that is a request that comes up now and again. Years ago I took
> a look at perldoc with an intent of adding that, but the code was a
mess
> and I gave up. Instead I have used a stand-alone script (shown
below)that
> searches the standard .../pod directory, like what Tad suggests to do
> manually. It does a good job, but it doesn't give you the comfort of
> searching everything that perldoc can find. Only integration into
> perldoc would give that. These days, the perldoc code looks much more
> inviting, it shouldn't be too hard.
>
Thanks, so far your code works great. I also like the fact that it
accepts perl RE's.
>--snip code--
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:23:30 +0000
From: John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <wB+JWEBinzzBFwxJ@jmwa.demon.co.uk>
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <1ltts0t93plvdensm8u68sgubignbd9c8s@4ax.com>) about
'Is zero even or odd?', on Sun, 26 Dec 2004:
> It's kind of
>like turning on the shower and expecting that to change the
>setting on your toaster!
You are a beta tester for Windows Home Automation? (;-)
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:24:18 +0000
From: John Woodgate <jmw@jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <6BSLWTBSozzBFwRC@jmwa.demon.co.uk>
I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <jfields@austininstrum
ents.com> wrote (in <eipts0dj403uus4ih7281mims11ao62g7i@4ax.com>) about
'Is zero even or odd?', on Sun, 26 Dec 2004:
>On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 06:57:26 GMT, vonroach <hadrainc@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 10:52:34 -0600, John Fields
>><jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Well... Not _really_, it's just a thought measurement.
>>>---
>>Careful, you are getting into Planck's range there.
>
>---
>Careful? Why?
>
You may fall off the plank.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:43:53 -0800
From: "Alfred Z. Newmane" <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <338t1rF3t5gfvU1@individual.net>
vonroach wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:52:38 -0800, "Alfred Z. Newmane"
> <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com> wrote:
> Alfy, there is nothing in your daffy post to attribute that remark to
> me.
Again ,what are you trying to pulls here?
The line with "Then infinity is undefined?" is the /ONLY/ difference
between the orignal post the paragraph came from and the reply in
question that came from you, with the line in question.
See below:
(Or look up the message ID, also below in the headers, on google groups)
Message-ID: <cq9g3d$b70$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>
Message-ID: <fa2js0pd4v6o2cp1c1j8kkn0vubhgaf7lu@4ax.com>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Richards Noah \(IFR LIT MET\)" <Noah.Richards@infineon.com>
Newsgroups: sci.math,comp.soft-sys.matlab,sci.physics,
alt.math.undergrad,rec.puzzles,sci.astro,sci.electronics.design,
comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:39:22 -0500
Organization: Infineon
Lines: 17
Message-ID: <cq9g3d$b70$1@athen03.muc.infineon.com>
Reply-To: "Richards Noah \(IFR LIT MET\)" <Noah.Richards@infineon.com>
X-Trace: athen03.muc.infineon.com 1103643565 11488 172.19.74.192
(21 Dec 2004 15:39:25 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: usenet@infineon.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 15:39:25 +0000 (UTC)
> >
> > Nope. I am using a well understood definition of division as
applicable
> > to this argument.
>
> Really? You never have told us what your "well understood" definition
> is- so what exactly are you "using" here?
>
You guys are arguing two different things. The argument that 0/0 is the
set
of all integers/reals/whatever you are using is the set theory response
to
the question. However, the more commonly used form is the algebraicly
accepted argument that states that division is a function of the forms:
Z /
Z -> Q, R / R -> R, etc. In this definition, division by 0 is undefined
for
all Z or R, including 0. So, you are both correct, but arguing
different
things.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: vonroach <hadrainc@earthlink.net>
^^^^^^^^
Newsgroups: sci.math,comp.soft-sys.matlab,sci.physics,
alt.math.undergrad,rec.puzzles,sci.astro,sci.electronics.design,
comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Organization: n/a
Message-ID: <fa2js0pd4v6o2cp1c1j8kkn0vubhgaf7lu@4ax.com>
Lines: 11
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:49:45 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.131.126.33
X-Trace: newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net 1103726985 4.131.126.33
(Wed, 22 Dec 2004 06:49:45 PST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 06:49:45 PST
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:39:22 -0500, "Richards Noah \(IFR LIT MET\)"
<Noah.Richards@infineon.com> wrote:
>You guys are arguing two different things. The argument that 0/0 is
the set
>of all integers/reals/whatever you are using is the set theory response
to
>the question. However, the more commonly used form is the algebraicly
>accepted argument that states that division is a function of the forms:
Z /
>Z -> Q, R / R -> R, etc. In this definition, division by 0 is
undefined for
>all Z or R, including 0. So, you are both correct, but arguing
different
>things.
Then infinity is undefined?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It was your words. I don't know why you are continuing to lie about it.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:53:51 -0800
From: "Alfred Z. Newmane" <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <338tkgF3sn7dlU1@individual.net>
vonroach wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:58:30 -0800, "Alfred Z. Newmane"
> <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com> wrote:
>
>> (Was refering to infinity (oo))
>
> Alfy - another ambiguous inquiry. An abstract symbol useful in
> several concepts.
Ambiguous? Yeah, if you take one part of what I said out of the context
it was in, leaving the rest completely out, then sure, it can be seen as
ambiguous. In fact, that could apply to just about anything, once taken
out of context.
But thanks for playing.
You aren't fooling anyone here.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:58:26 -0800
From: "Alfred Z. Newmane" <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <338tt4F3tmuqaU1@individual.net>
vonroach wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:57:21 -0800, "Alfred Z. Newmane"
> <a.newmane.remove@eastcoastcz.com> wrote:
>
>>>> j [sqrt(-1)] isn't a number but we still mix it up with numbers.
>>>
>>> Of course it is a number, thats why we treat it as such.
>>
>> Ok what it's value then?
>> .
> square root of -1 is the number that yields -1 when squared. Another
> useful abstract concept.
> It is termed `imaginary' while most other numbers are just `abstract'.
> They all come from the same place.
You replied to my correction post, so you know I wasn't refering to
that.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 23:59:17 +0000 (UTC)
From: George Cox <george_coxanti@spambtinternet.com.invalid>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <41CF505F.89991770@spambtinternet.com.invalid>
vonroach wrote:
>
> ... most other numbers are just `abstract'.
Only "most"? I thought that all numbers were abstract.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:23:07 +0100
From: Michael Mendelsohn <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <41CF55EB.55E59BD@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
"Nicholas O. Lindan" schrieb:
> "Shawn Corey" <shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote
> > a = b
[..]
> > 2 = 1
>
> Now if we can just get the IRS to agree.
Posted on alt.humor.best-of-usenet:
news:ahbou=yFKxd.5373$Z47.3517@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
Cheers
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 02:23:11 +0100
From: Michael Mendelsohn <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
Subject: Re: Is zero even or odd?
Message-Id: <41CF63FF.D323B055@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de>
John Fields schrieb:
> On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:23:49 +0100, Michael Mendelsohn
> <invalid@msgid.michael.mendelsohn.de> wrote:
> >John Fields schrieb:
> >> ---
> >> I'm not trying to be insulting, but would you mind explaining how the
> >> current was measured?
> >
> >By putting an instrument into the circuit where I wanted to measure the
> >current.
>
> ---
> OK, but, unfortunately, placing the ammeter inside the short can only
> give ambiguous results.
That is my point exactly. A mathematical situation where you get 0/0 is
ambiguous. If there is an unambiguous way to resolve it, you should have
thought about it before. (See below).
> >Presumbly that branch of the circuit had a box marked "resistor" in it,
> >which should have contained a 100 Ohm resistor, so measured as if that
> >had been there, but when I opened the box, I found it empty.
>
> ---
> But, with the short in place, as you've shown it, it would be
> impossible to determine whether the resistor was there or not, let
> alone determining its value.
Indeed, you got my point. You cannot determine if 0/0 should have a
finite value, and even if, you can't determine what its value should be.
> >We're talking about hypothetical boxes and hypothetical resistors here,
> >because I am trying to model a 0/0 quotient using an electrical circuit
> >in the attempt show to Nicholas O. Lindan ("Nick" for short) that simply
> >assuming that this quotient is 1 is a little reckless.
> >> >> you would have measured the entire supply voltage minus what was being
> >> >> dropped across the load by the current flowing through the meter and
> >> >> you would have concluded that by subtracting the meter current that
> >> >> you would have had:
> >> >>
> >> >> E E
> >> >> R = --- = --- = oo
> >> >> I 0
> >> >>
> >> >> Which would have been right!
> >> >
> >> >Unless E=0 too, in which case the result is 1 (says Nick).
> >> >
> >> >On a short circuit you can detect no voltage, but you can measure a
> >> >current.
> >> >
> >> > E 0
> >> > R = --- = --- = 0
> >> > I I
> >> >
> >> >This leads to a contradiction when E=I=0.
>
> ---
> I don't see why.
Because E / 0 = oo and 0 / I = 0, in the case of E=I=0, both equations
apply, and thus both results should be valid; but oo is not equal to 0.
> Consider: Since
>
> x
> y = --- = 1
> x
>
> is certainly true for x = 1, x = 0.5, x = 0.25, and doesn't seem to
> change as x diminishes toward, through and into the negative realm on
> the other side of zero, why should there be an anomaly where x = 0?.
Because you can't see from 0/0
that it is the result of putting x=0 into x/x.
It might have been the result of putting 0 into 2x/x,
in which case the result ought to be 2.
In fact, any c = cx/x = 0/0 for any c in R with x=0,
so 0/0 could be any number c in R.
Only if you know that 0/0 came from x/x, you can say that it should be
one; but if you know as much, why not eliminate the quotient when you
initially see x/x?
If you fear the division by zero, write code that does not divide by a
variable. ;)
Cheers
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 20:50:42 -0500
From: Mladen Gogala <gogala@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Perl interface to Unix ps?
Message-Id: <pan.2004.12.27.01.50.41.393050@sbcglobal.net>
On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:24:40 +0000, J Krugman wrote:
> I'm writing a Perl script that is supposed to find the PIDs of all
> the running versions of a program and send them a SIGUSR1. As this
> description suggests, the script is meant for a Unix platform, but
> it could be Linux, BSD, Solaris, etc.
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
my @proclist=();
open BS,"ps -ef|" or die "Cannot open BS:$!\n";
while (<BS>) {
my @fields=split /\s+/;
push @proclist,$fields[1];
}
kill 10, @proclist
$
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:57:35 -0500
From: Mladen Gogala <gogala@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Problem with Open Perl IDE
Message-Id: <pan.2004.12.26.19.57.34.369655@sbcglobal.net>
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:24:45 +0000, Peter Wyzl wrote:
> Also wonder what you mean by "a real editor"? I always thought the 'real
> editor' was the person, anything else is just a tool...
Real editor is called "vi" or "vim". There are also abominations like
emacs, but vi-faithful will never use emacs, even if their life depended
on it.
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:07:48 +0100
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Problem with Open Perl IDE
Message-Id: <45gts0plt9nmdgf5vvfn2m2jbn5orp4med@4ax.com>
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:24:45 GMT, "Peter Wyzl" <wyzelli@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Also wonder what you mean by "a real editor"? I always thought the 'real
>editor' was the person, anything else is just a tool...
Nice joke! However I guess it is relatively clear I meant anything
like emacs, vi(m), etc. (personally I use jed, fundamentally a
lightweight emacs clone with IDE/CUA-like keybindings.)
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:07:49 +0100
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Problem with Open Perl IDE
Message-Id: <r8gts0p97koeudjp1t16rbf6l19tcc827d@4ax.com>
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 08:09:07 -0500, Mladen Gogala
<gogala@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> I can't remember its name,
>> though...
>
>Eclipse. It's called "Eclipse Platform". More can be
>seen on www.eclipse.org
That's exactly what I meant. I have never seen it myself, let alone
used it. I hope the (good) rumors I heard about it are trustworthy.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 26 Dec 2004 13:16:14 -0800
From: "Sarita Moodie" <sarita.moodie@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Return all points with x km of y
Message-Id: <1104095774.422535.214710@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>
Hi Ian,
I know this is an old thread, but I just found it and want to add what
I know.
Its not a big deal to do great circle distances using SQL. Access
should be able to handle it fine. The query looks big, but thats not
important if you dont let it bother you.
The trick is to encode the great circle formula using SQL syntax. Look
here for the formulas:
http://williams.best.vwh.net/avform.htm
You may have to change the syntax to make it work with whatever
database you use.
Now that you can compute the distance, you can sort on this distance
using ORDER BY, and then take the top X values. Or you can easily put
it in a WHERE clause to show only the records within Z kilometers.
Now the problem with this approach is that the query will start to slow
down when you get into large record sets (your 32,000 is already fairly
large). It will be a lot faster if you use a database that allows
spatial indexing. When using such databases your queries can scale
much larger. New versions of MySQL, PostgreSQL, and Oracle all support
spatial indexes. Good luck!
-Robin Chauhan
Ian Pattison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to put together what I think is a fairly complex database
query.
>
> I have a table of about 32,000 latitiude and longitude pairs and I
need to
> be able to query for two different things:
>
> 1. All points that are within X kilometers (or miles for that matter)
of
> coordinate Y (both are supplied from an HTML form).
> 2. The nearest X points to coordinate Y (again, supplied by a form).
>
> The first should be simple enough... I already know how to measure
the
> distance between two points (once I translate all that trig into
perl) so
> all I need to do is run the query and discard any result that's
outside the
> circle. The second is tougher. Does anyone know how to sort a list
like
> that?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ian
------------------------------
Date: 26 Dec 2004 23:26:34 GMT
From: Leo Fellmann <l.fellmann@free.fr>
Subject: Re: Sessions with only standard modules
Message-Id: <338vl9F3q5d8jU1@individual.net>
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
| Leo Fellmann wrote:
|
|> I have to write a few CGI scripts and my webhost has both PHP and perl.
|> I'd far rather use perl, but I probably will need session tracking.
|> The problem is that
|> a) my host does not have anything aside from the standard modules. No
|> mod_perl, no CGI:Session.
|>
|> b) I can't install modules locally due to not having acess to the
|> necessary tools. no command-line perl etc.
|
|
| Pure Perl modules can be 'installed' locally by simply uploading the
| *.pm files to appropriate directories. I believe CGI::Session is such a
| pure Perl module that does not need to be pre-compiled. If that's the
| case, you can designate a directory for Perl modules, upload the
| necessary files into that directory (appying the right structure), and
| include something like
|
| use lib '/path/to/local/Perl/library';
|
| at the beginning of your scripts.
Ah, never mind. I've managed; it turned out it uses autoload and not being able to
install it normally was making it complain because auto/* was missing. Installing it
locally and copying over auto/CGI/* did the trick.
Thanks :)
- --
Leo Fellmann
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------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 7575
***************************************
