[25176] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 7425 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Nov 19 06:05:41 2004
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:05:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 19 Nov 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 7425
Today's topics:
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? <tassilo.von.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? <do-not-use@invalid.net>
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? <bernard.el-haginDODGE_THIS@lido-tech.net>
Re: Complex datastructure documentation? (Anno Siegel)
FAQ 4.66: How can I make my hash remember the order I p <comdog@panix.com>
Re: how to add parameter to HTTP header in Perl?(not fo <end@dream.life>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Re: Problem with Hashes <do-not-use@invalid.net>
Re: script hangs waiting for key stroke <zen13097@zen.co.uk>
Re: search.cgi <joe@inwap.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:13:59 GMT
From: John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <Xns95A616B29148Ccastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Uri Guttman wrote:
> hiding is not coding. you still have to code somewhere to manage the
> data structures.
But you can profit at other points in your program that the complexity is
hidden and hence, the code is more readable.
--
John Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:25:47 GMT
From: John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <Xns95A618B0A7C8Ccastleamber@130.133.1.4>
Uri Guttman wrote:
> JB> I mean:
>
> JB> $car{door_open} = 1;
> JB> $car{people}++;
> JB> $car{door_open} = 0;
>
> JB> $car->open_door();
> JB> $car->person_enters();
> JB> $car->close_door();
>
> that is design, not syntax.
What I see is code, and the second code is more readable to me, and
moreover the part you cut even more:
$car->open_door()->person_enters()->close_door();
> one is direct access coding and the other
> is OO method calls.
method call *coding*, you forgot a word there.
> they are not the same.
Both are code
> underneath the method you
> still need the equivilent code to do the real work. that is why OO may
> hide coding but it doesn't replace it.
I consider the second one more readable, less error prone, etc.
Don't tell me you never made a mistake like:
$car{poeple}++;
> JB> It *can* make code more readable.
>
> that is not the same code. one is direct data munging and the other is
> method calls. compare apples to apples please.
The OP used one, I recommended using other. Both are lines of code, so I
can compare.
> JB> Since I have done so, and since I considered my coding more
> readable JB> that way (besides the other advantages), I think I am
> still right by JB> saying that OO can improve readability,
> especially when juggling JB> datastructures.
>
> this is frustrating as you just don't get that coding is not OO.
But in your code you can write OO syntax or not.
> what
> about all the code to IMPLEMENT the methods? hiding it doesn't make
> it go away.
You put it in *one* place, instead of doing data munging all over the
place.
> the OP's poor syntax could be inside a method and it STILL
> IS BAD CODE no matter how pretty the OO API?
But it's in one place, hence the rest of the code *could* be more
readable. Also, the poor syntax in one place can be replaced by better
without changes to the rest of the code.
> do you get that? bad code
> can exist ANYWHERE and OO cannot clean it up by itself.
I did not write that, but you seem to miss that.
> it has to be
> written as good code.
>
> oy, i have to give up.
Thanks.
Finally, datastructures as given by the OP are a design, as is OO. Both
designs appear at some level in the code. I consider code using OO more
readable than code using datastructure munging all over the place.
Maybe I express myself wrong, I am not a native speaker of the English
language, but a peek at (for example) the core modules in Perl seem to
agree with what I think but maybe am not able to write down :-)
--
John Small Perl scripts: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
Perl programmer available: http://castleamber.com/
Happy Customers: http://castleamber.com/testimonials.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 03:39:31 -0500
From: Sherm Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <x5mdnQRjQduCLADcRVn-tA@adelphia.com>
John Bokma wrote:
> Sherm Pendley wrote:
>
>>Coding is just syntax.
>
> So is OO :-)
That's not true. A Java programmer I once worked with used classes as
nothing more than a means of organizing his functions into a set of name
spaces. He used only class methods. Despite being written in an "OO
language" and using "OO syntax", his code was not truly object oriented
by any reasonable definition of the term.
Similarly, you can express OO concepts using purely procedural syntax.
Many GTK apps are written using C this way.
High-level concepts and mental models - OO or not - are *entirely*
orthagonal to the syntax that is used to express them in code.
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:50:22 +0100
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.von.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <slrncprcue.tu.tassilo.von.parseval@localhost.localdomain>
Also sprach Uri Guttman:
>>>>>> "JB" == John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com> writes:
>
> JB> Since I have done so, and since I considered my coding more readable
> JB> that way (besides the other advantages), I think I am still right by
> JB> saying that OO can improve readability, especially when juggling
> JB> datastructures.
>
> this is frustrating as you just don't get that coding is not OO. what
> about all the code to IMPLEMENT the methods? hiding it doesn't make it
> go away. the OP's poor syntax could be inside a method and it STILL IS
> BAD CODE no matter how pretty the OO API? do you get that? bad code can
> exist ANYWHERE and OO cannot clean it up by itself. it has to be written
> as good code.
But once ugly code is locked away in a method, it's no longer my
concern. For me it's very similar with functions. There are two reasons
that could make me put code into a function: It is used frequently. Or
it's butt-ugly that I'd rather not want to see it litter my other code.
And sometimes code remains ugly no matter how hard you try to clean it
up. Those very deep data-structures are good remain-ugly-forever
examples.
Perl makes it exceptionally easy to hide away such uglyness. Creating
three package-qualified functions (plus body, of course) might be all
you need:
sub UglyData::new { }
sub UglyData::get { } # maybe with an XPath-notion: $obj->get("foo/bar/baz")
sub UglyData::set { }
And yes, I've done that a few times, usually when I was annoyed by long
deref-chains long enough. It usually did improve my joy-factor.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 10:42:20 +0100
From: Arndt Jonasson <do-not-use@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <yzdu0rm9nur.fsf@invalid.net>
"Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.von.parseval@rwth-aachen.de> writes:
> But once ugly code is locked away in a method, it's no longer my
> concern. For me it's very similar with functions. There are two reasons
> that could make me put code into a function: It is used frequently. Or
> it's butt-ugly that I'd rather not want to see it litter my other code.
These are two good reasons. I also consider putting code into a function
if doing so makes the code considerably clearer. The new function might
actually be called only once.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:50:49 +0100
From: "Bernard El-Hagin" <bernard.el-haginDODGE_THIS@lido-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <Xns95A66E5746172elhber1lidotechnet@62.89.127.66>
"Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.von.parseval@rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> Also sprach Uri Guttman:
>
>>>>>>> "JB" == John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com> writes:
>>
>> JB> Since I have done so, and since I considered my coding more
>> readable JB> that way (besides the other advantages), I think I
>> am still right by JB> saying that OO can improve readability,
>> especially when juggling JB> datastructures.
>>
>> this is frustrating as you just don't get that coding is not OO.
>> what about all the code to IMPLEMENT the methods? hiding it
>> doesn't make it go away. the OP's poor syntax could be inside a
>> method and it STILL IS BAD CODE no matter how pretty the OO API?
>> do you get that? bad code can exist ANYWHERE and OO cannot clean
>> it up by itself. it has to be written as good code.
>
> But once ugly code is locked away in a method, it's no longer my
> concern. [...]
But it remains ugly. That's the point Uri is trying to get across. You
can hide it away in the implementation, but that is all you're doing it
- hiding it. You are not making it any less ugly.
--
Cheers,
Bernard
------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 11:00:44 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Complex datastructure documentation?
Message-Id: <cnkjos$jer$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Doug O'Leary <dkoleary@olearycomputers.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> On 2004-11-18, John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com> wrote:
> >
> > Rewrite it, to use OO programming.
> >
> > Also, documentation should be your first step in design, not last.
> >
> > I think with 3 or 4 classes you can make it way more readable and less
> > error prone.
>
> Wow; I can only aspire to being good enough to critique code without
> seeing it... That's truly impressive. I will be certain to give your
> thoughts all the consideration they're due.
There's no need to see more of the code than the indescribable (by
your own admission) data structures it is using. I needs re-writing.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:03:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: PerlFAQ Server <comdog@panix.com>
Subject: FAQ 4.66: How can I make my hash remember the order I put elements into it?
Message-Id: <cnkjt5$8d2$1@reader1.panix.com>
This message is one of several periodic postings to comp.lang.perl.misc
intended to make it easier for perl programmers to find answers to
common questions. The core of this message represents an excerpt
from the documentation provided with Perl.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
4.66: How can I make my hash remember the order I put elements into it?
Use the Tie::IxHash from CPAN.
use Tie::IxHash;
tie my %myhash, 'Tie::IxHash';
for (my $i=0; $i<20; $i++) {
$myhash{$i} = 2*$i;
}
my @keys = keys %myhash;
# @keys = (0,1,2,3,...)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents such as this have been called "Answers to Frequently
Asked Questions" or FAQ for short. They represent an important
part of the Usenet tradition. They serve to reduce the volume of
redundant traffic on a news group by providing quality answers to
questions that keep coming up.
If you are some how irritated by seeing these postings you are free
to ignore them or add the sender to your killfile. If you find
errors or other problems with these postings please send corrections
or comments to the posting email address or to the maintainers as
directed in the perlfaq manual page.
Note that the FAQ text posted by this server may have been modified
from that distributed in the stable Perl release. It may have been
edited to reflect the additions, changes and corrections provided
by respondents, reviewers, and critics to previous postings of
these FAQ. Complete text of these FAQ are available on request.
The perlfaq manual page contains the following copyright notice.
AUTHOR AND COPYRIGHT
Copyright (c) 1997-2002 Tom Christiansen and Nathan
Torkington, and other contributors as noted. All rights
reserved.
This posting is provided in the hope that it will be useful but
does not represent a commitment or contract of any kind on the part
of the contributers, authors or their agents.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:07:16 +0800
From: Alont <end@dream.life>
Subject: Re: how to add parameter to HTTP header in Perl?(not fowwlow the ? in url)
Message-Id: <419db6fd.32317218@news.individual.de>
syntax error?
---------- Perl compiler ----------
String found where operator expected at D:\Inetpub\wwwroot\whois.pl
line 37, near "POST
'http://localhost/services/test.asp'"
(Do you need to predeclare POST?)
syntax error at D:\Inetpub\wwwroot\test.pl line 37, near "POST
ʱ¼ä:19 Nov 2004 07:54:43 GMT
John Bokma <postmaster@castleamber.com>ÔøÓ÷¢ÑÔ:--
>my $action = POST
>
> 'http://localhost/services/test.asp', [
>
> parameter1 => 'baozhuangxiang',
> ex => 'txt',
> ];
--
Your fault as a Government is My failure as a Citizen.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:23:55 GMT
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
Message-Id: <419dad9a$0$27767$8b463f8a@news.nationwide.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 10:23:30 +0100
From: Arndt Jonasson <do-not-use@invalid.net>
Subject: Re: Problem with Hashes
Message-Id: <yzdy8gy9oq5.fsf@invalid.net>
Shashank Khanvilkar <shashank@mia.ece.uic.edu> writes:
>
> ----------------------------------------
> %HoH = ();
> sub1(\%HoH); #Passing the Hoh by reference...
> print "size of hash: " . keys(%HoH) . ".\n";
> .......
>
>
> sub1{
> my $a = @_;
> $a->{A}->{1} = 10;
> $a->{B}->{2} = 20;
> }
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> Since i am passing the Hoh by reference, the print statement should
> display 2. However in my case, it gives size of hash as "0"..
> what am i doing wrong?
The problem has already been solved, and someone also pointed out that
using "use strict" would have helped you, or at any rate pointed out
the error sooner in the execution ("Can't use string ("1") as a HASH
ref while "strict refs" in use at ./prog.pl line whatever.")
I'd like to recommend using the debugger. When a variable has gotten
an obviously wrong value at some point, single-step the program from a
point where you know things are correct and see what happens on the way:
perl -d ./prog.pl
Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.0402
Emacs support available.
Enter h or `h h' for help.
main::(./prog.pl:5): my %HoH = ();
DB<1> s
main::(./prog.pl:6): sub1(\%HoH); #Passing the Hoh by reference...
DB<1> s
main::sub1(./prog.pl:10): my $a = @_;
DB<1> s
main::sub1(./prog.pl:11): $a->{A}->{1} = 10;
DB<1> p $a
1
DB<2>
Here we see that $a is now 1, and not a reference.
(Letting the program run until it dies, after having included "use
strict", and then see where it stopped and why, doesn't seem to
produce useful information in the debugger, but maybe I'm using it
wrong - I'm new to it.)
------------------------------
Date: 19 Nov 2004 08:47:13 GMT
From: Dave Weaver <zen13097@zen.co.uk>
Subject: Re: script hangs waiting for key stroke
Message-Id: <419db311$0$1059$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>
On 18 Nov 2004 00:59:36 -0800, chris <nadsinoz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am running the following script on perl, v5.8.4 built for
> MSWin32-x86-multi-thread (activestate). The script runs but seems to
> hang every now and then and won't continue until I press enter. E.g.:
You are running this? That's strange.
Even if I create a dummy util:YYYYMM module, I still get:
Global symbol "$dbh" requires explicit package name at /tmp/xx line 26.
This can't be your real code if it doesn't even compile.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:30:21 GMT
From: Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: search.cgi
Message-Id: <N2jnd.117175$R05.21787@attbi_s53>
Ken Saunders wrote:
> open(FILE, "< $File::Find::name") or return;
I'm guessing that your problem will become visible if you
change "or return" to something that prints the name of
the file that could not be open for reading.
> <a href=\"$File::Find::name\">
Your script make no reference to $ENV{DOCUMENT_ROOT}, and
that means that your open()s are doomed to failure.
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 7425
***************************************
