[25061] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 7311 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Oct 26 11:10:42 2004
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:10:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 26 Oct 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 7311
Today's topics:
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <bernard.el-haginDODGE_THIS@lido-tech.net>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion (Anno Siegel)
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <vetro@online.no>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <ron.parker@povray.org>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <vetro@online.no>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion (Bryan Williams)
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <ron.parker@povray.org>
Re: open-perl-ide qustion <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: What's the seed? <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:00:24 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <slrncnsf2o.n7c.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@pandora.be> wrote:
> daniel kaplan wrote:
>
>>vi? is this another one i can try?
>
> ?!?!?
>
> Is it possible? Can one still find a programmer who doesn't know (about)
> vi? Or emacs?
Even stranger, is it possible that there is a programmer that can't
type "vi" into the little box at www.google.com?
Much less strange if the subject person is not a programmer at all,
which seems increasingly likely...
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:51:25 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098795115.393232@nntp.acecape.com>
> Is it possible? Can one still find a programmer who doesn't know (about)
> vi? Or emacs?
emacs i know
being windows based, wouldn't know of any other linux based editor tho
and being very used to, and fond of IDE, that's where my prefs lie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:58:28 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098795538.235204@nntp.acecape.com>
> Even stranger, is it possible that there is a programmer that can't
> type "vi" into the little box at www.google.com?
>
> Much less strange if the subject person is not a programmer at all,
> which seems increasingly likely...
even stranger, is it possible that there is someone out there who doesn't
realize that googling something only gives you listings for it, and not
other programmers opinions?
gee tad, i thought you wre going to stop reading my posts! what happened?
did you stop taking your medication? and i'd respond to your wonderful
little "programmer" quip but hey...if you really want to compare the size of
our manhoods a> i would need to know that stakes, and b> i would be need
some sort of sworn promise that you would never ever not only not contact
me, but neither respond to my posts ever again...what do you say?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:04:40 +0200
From: "Bernard El-Hagin" <bernard.el-haginDODGE_THIS@lido-tech.net>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <Xns958E9960CD3C7elhber1lidotechnet@62.89.127.66>
"daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
[...]
> gee tad, i thought you wre going to stop reading my posts! [...]
He didn't read your post. He read a *follow-up* to your post. *You*, on
the other hand, replied to *Tad's* post even though you have stated at
least on two occasions that you would never open Sinan's or Tad's posts
again. Oh, wait, you must have just done your name-forgetting trick.
--
Cheers,
Bernard
------------------------------
Date: 26 Oct 2004 13:16:25 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <cllin9$b1n$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Bryan Williams <bitbucketz2002@yahoo.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:<1098715641.574393@nntp.acecape.com>...
>
> > >>every option under the sun and always come back to Open-Perl-IDE or vi.
> >
> > vi? is this another one i can try?
> >
> > thanks ahead
>
> vi (vim - linux) unix based text editor, not an IDE
Together with Vi::QuickFix it comes closer to being one. QuickFix
takes you to the place(s) in the source where errors or warnings
occurred.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:16:37 +0200
From: "Vetle Roeim" <vetro@online.no>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <opsgha5zb53hk3cf@quickfix.opera.com>
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:58:28 -0400, daniel kaplan <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:
>> Even stranger, is it possible that there is a programmer that can't
>> type "vi" into the little box at www.google.com?
>>
>> Much less strange if the subject person is not a programmer at all,
>> which seems increasingly likely...
>
> even stranger, is it possible that there is someone out there who doesn't
> realize that googling something only gives you listings for it, and not
> other programmers opinions?
Well, that's not entirely true, is it? Google indexes a lot of pages,
including webpages containing reviews, as well as mailinglist archives and
groups containing discussions about lots of stuff. :)
[...]
--
It's not a bug, it's the future.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:21:25 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098796916.199668@nntp.acecape.com>
> He didn't read your post. He read a *follow-up* to your post. *You*, on
> the other hand, replied to *Tad's* post even though you have stated at
> least on two occasions that you would never open Sinan's or Tad's posts
> again. Oh, wait, you must have just done your name-forgetting trick.
i read it, i admit it....different thread, fell right into it
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:22:05 -0500
From: Ron Parker <ron.parker@povray.org>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <slrncnsjrt.ikd.ron.parker@mail.parkrrrr.com>
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 08:58:28 -0400, daniel kaplan wrote:
> some sort of sworn promise that you would never ever not only not contact
> me, but neither respond to my posts ever again...what do you say?
He didn't respond to your post. But you've obviously never really used
Usenet, so you wouldn't know that.
--
#local R=<7084844682857967,0787982,826975826580>;#macro L(P)concat(#while(P)chr(
mod(P,100)),#local P=P/100;#end"")#end background{rgb 1}text{ttf L(R.x)L(R.y)0,0
translate<-.8,0,-1>}text{ttf L(R.x)L(R.z)0,0translate<-1.6,-.75,-1>}sphere{z/9e3
4/26/2001finish{reflection 1}}//ron.parker@povray.org My opinions, nobody else's
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:32:09 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098797560.332449@nntp.acecape.com>
>> Well, that's not entirely true, is it? Google indexes a lot of pages,
>>including webpages containing reviews, as well as mailinglist archives and
>>groups containing discussions about lots of stuff. :)
excellent point, but there is a major sifting there isn't there? and just
cause it's on the internet doesn't make it true. where as if you come to a
newgroup of "programmers" you expect to not only have it distilled down to
users in one convienient location, but at the same time be able to
discuss...my 2 cents
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:47:01 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098798452.640929@nntp.acecape.com>
>>He didn't respond to your post. But you've obviously never really used
>>Usenet, so you wouldn't know that.
no i repsonded, different thread, fell into it...
>>But you've obviously never really used
> Usenet, so you wouldn't know that.
no, i've been around for quite a while...but your group is the first one to
show me such a bitter group of people
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:09:32 +0200
From: "Vetle Roeim" <vetro@online.no>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <opsghdl6xr3hk3cf@quickfix.opera.com>
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:32:09 -0400, daniel kaplan <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:
>>> Well, that's not entirely true, is it? Google indexes a lot of pages,
>>> including webpages containing reviews, as well as mailinglist archives
>>> and
>>> groups containing discussions about lots of stuff. :)
>
> excellent point, but there is a major sifting there isn't there? and
> just cause it's on the internet doesn't make it true.
Agreed, but remember that this applies to everything ... Webpages as
well as newsgroups.
> where as if you come to a newgroup of "programmers" you expect
> to not only have it distilled down to users in one convienient
> location, but at the same time be able to discuss...my 2 cents
It depends. In some cases a specific subject may already have been
discussed ad nauseum, and in those cases it will probably not be very
interesting to discuss it all over again. It's always a good idea to do
some research before asking questions on a newsgroup.
Many posters are here on comp.lang.perl.misc are harsh in their replies,
though, but I think it's understandable considering the amount of people
that don't bother to read documentation or expect their code to "just
work".
--
It's not a bug, it's the future.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:35:46 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098801378.244560@nntp.acecape.com>
> It depends. In some cases a specific subject may already have been
> discussed ad nauseum, and in those cases it will probably not be very
> interesting to discuss it all over again. It's always a good idea to do
> some research before asking questions on a newsgroup.
well please don't assume i didn't. that's how i "unfortunatly" found AS's
Visual Perl
> Many posters are here on comp.lang.perl.misc are harsh in their
replies,
> though, but I think it's understandable considering the amount of people
> that don't bother to read documentation or expect their code to "just
> work".
well, that's debatle....there are very few thigns in our lives that we can
control. how we treat other human beings is the one thing we are in full
control of (barring mental illness). so you before you call someone an
"ass", or claim they aren't at your level, or even in your field, one should
always think....and that is compounded even more by the fact that here in
cyberland, we have a certain amount of anonymity....sure you know our names,
but when not dealing with a person face to face, you easily forget to treat
them as a person......to quote an ex-associate "Do not press send".....so
please forgive me, but when you say "understandable" i say "that's too easy
of an excuse"
so where is the zen newsgroup anyway? :-)
------------------------------
Date: 26 Oct 2004 07:38:29 -0700
From: bitbucketz2002@yahoo.com (Bryan Williams)
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <38a10436.0410260638.54dfff3b@posting.google.com>
Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@pandora.be> wrote in message news:<n78sn05u4aq5l6qt241fg4rneb2qkb5lbo@4ax.com>...
> daniel kaplan wrote:
>
> >vi? is this another one i can try?
>
> ?!?!?
>
> Is it possible? Can one still find a programmer who doesn't know (about)
> vi? Or emacs?
>
> I like neither, but at least I've heard about them, even tried them.
hehehe ... I had mastered vi long before I ever heard of an IDE. Alas,
the great unwashed masses have forced me to write m$ windoze
applications for a living.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:52:17 -0500
From: Ron Parker <ron.parker@povray.org>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <slrncnsp51.iq5.ron.parker@mail.parkrrrr.com>
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:47:01 -0400, daniel kaplan wrote:
> no, i've been around for quite a while...but your group is the first one to
> show me such a bitter group of people
First off, this isn't "my" group. I haven't been a regular poster in this
group for years. But I do read here, and you and your constant bitching and
moaning about the fact that people want to help you help yourself have made
an utter shambles of this group for well over a week now. Even ignoring
you isn't enough, because people keep thinking they can actually help you
get the notion of civility through your thick skull. (For which, incidentally,
I apologize to all of the people who have daniel killfiled. Please don't
killfile me, too; I won't reply to him again after this.)
What's "quite a while", a week? You've never heard the maxim that you
should lurk for a while before posting and you think you're an old hand
at Usenet?
Allow me to quote one William DePalo from your beloved microsoft.public
group, in your own whiny little "those Perl people don't like me" thread.
(microsoft.* is NOT Usenet, btw.)
For those playing along at home, this is message-ID
<eCVLQwHuEHA.3460@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl>
>We get an interloper or two or three a year who have no clue as to the
>culture here. (Got as least one now in another thread <G>) With luck, they
>go away.
Now THERE is a man who understands Usenet. I have no idea what he's doing
posting in a slum like microsoft.public.*, but you could learn a thing or
two from him.
--
#macro R(L P)sphere{L F}cylinder{L P F}#end#macro P(V)merge{R(z+a z)R(-z a-z)R(a
-z-z-z a+z)torus{1F clipped_by{plane{a 0}}}translate V}#end#macro Z(a F T)merge{
P(z+a)P(z-a)R(-z-z-x a)pigment{rgbf 1}hollow interior{media{emission 3-T}}}#end
Z(-x-x.2x)camera{location z*-10rotate x*90normal{bumps.02scale.05}}
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:00:52 -0400
From: "daniel kaplan" <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Re: open-perl-ide qustion
Message-Id: <1098802884.592147@nntp.acecape.com>
> hehehe ... I had mastered vi long before I ever heard of an IDE. Alas,
> the great unwashed masses have forced me to write m$ windoze
> applications for a living.
gotta right for the masses, or you don't eat. 1 month ago i would have
flatout defended MS period. And in a way I still, lots of what IS today,
woudln't be if it weren't for them. However, what they did to me, one month
ago...ooooh. words cannot describe. and this isn't the place for it
anyways.....
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:24:39 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: What's the seed?
Message-Id: <72b052-3s6.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth ctcgag@hotmail.com:
> Derek Fountain <nospam@example.com> wrote:
> > In any recent version of Perl, the seed for the random number generator
> > is set at the first time rand() is called. Can I find out what that seed
> > is so I can subsequently reproduce the random sequence?
> >
> > At present I'm setting my own seed using "time ^ ($$ + ($$ << 15))", but
> > my program is being run repeatedly over and over, and only takes a
> > fraction of a second to do its job. That means time is often the same for
> > several runs, and $$ tends to go up in small, sometimes single, steps. I
> > have my suspicions about the quality of my seed!
>
> I think this would be generally adequate, but you don't say what you are
> using this for. If you are concerned, and you think that perl's default
> srand is better than what you are doing, I would do something like this:
>
> my $x=int rand(~0); #Cause srand to be invoked "naturally"
> srand($x);
> warn "using $x as seed"; #record seed
I think this is incorrect: the seed contains *more* entropy than any
given return value from rand(), so this will give you less random
numbers than not setting the seed at all.
Ben
--
Razors pain you / Rivers are damp
Acids stain you / And drugs cause cramp. [Dorothy Parker]
Guns aren't lawful / Nooses give
Gas smells awful / You might as well live. ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 7311
***************************************
