[25009] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 7259 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Oct 16 06:06:56 2004
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 03:05:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 16 Oct 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 7259
Today's topics:
Re: A perl reporting paradigm?? <nospam@bigpond.com>
criticize my code.. please? <raven_at@home.domonet.ru>
DBD-ODBC - Running stored procs, can't bind default val (Pablo S)
Emacs modules for Perl programming (Jari Aalto+mail.perl)
Modified example from Camel book doesn't work right - P (Vijai Kalyan)
Re: Modified example from Camel book doesn't work right <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Multiline die <samik@frKKshKll.org>
passing hash of arrays by reference <g-preston1@ti.com>
perl and time <nospam@email.plz>
Re: perl and time <g-preston1@ti.com>
Re: String and Array Programming in Perl <wyzelli@yahoo.com>
Re: String and Array Programming in Perl <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on (Hae Jin)
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on (Hae Jin)
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on <dha@panix.com>
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on <notvalid@email.com>
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into on <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 14:45:46 +1000
From: Gregory Toomey <nospam@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: A perl reporting paradigm??
Message-Id: <2tbnbqF1tg7e0U1@uni-berlin.de>
Fred wrote:
>
> The code that follows is unclear to me. (You have to look at the listing
> at bottom.)
> The thing I don't get is this line: my $x = <<LINE;
>
> and this line is obviously terminated by this line:
>
> LINE
'here documents' are a feature of unix shells, and Perl.
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/here-docs.html
gtoomey
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:57:43 +0400
From: "Sergei Shelukhin" <raven_at@home.domonet.ru>
Subject: criticize my code.. please?
Message-Id: <2tbrggF1s82vfU1@uni-berlin.de>
Hi ;)
Here I prase opml blogroll into linkage database for my embarasingly
primitive blog engine I wrote slowly to study Perl basics.
One thing I already know is that common is an evil name for custom module. I
will hcange that in production version ;)
I am also aware of being able to refactor query-prepare out from the loop,
running away to th uni now ;)
#!/usr/bin/perl
use strict;
use lib qw(/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1);
use lib qw(/home/virtual/html/raven.is.rathercute.com/cgi);
use DBI;
use XML::Parser;
use XML::DOM;
use IO::Handle;
use common;
############################################################################
######
my $db = Common::connect();
my $io = new IO::Handle;
my $fname;
my $new = 0;
my $old = 0;
my $p = new XML::DOM::Parser();
print "OPML file name: ";
if (!$io->fdopen(fileno(STDIN),"r"))
{
die "error initialising i/o";
}
$fname = $io->getline;
my $opml = $p->parsefile($fname) or die "File not found";
my $nodes = $opml->getElementsByTagName("outline");
my $n = $nodes->getLength;
$db->do("ALTER TABLE Linkage ADD COLUMN SaveMe bit");
$db->do("UPDATE Linkage SET SaveMe = 0");
$db->do("UPDATE Linkage SET SaveMe = 1 WHERE Blog = 0 OR Feed = ''");
for (my $i = 0; $i < $n; $i++)
{
my $node = $nodes->item ($i);
next if ($node->hasChildNodes); #outline cats
my ($title,$url,$feed) = ($node->getAttributeNode("title")
,$node->getAttributeNode("htmlUrl"),$node->getAttributeNode("xmlUrl"));
$title = $title->getValue if $title;
$feed = $feed->getValue if $feed;
if ($url )
{
$url = $url->getValue
}
else
{
# print "URL for the \"$title\" not found, please supply the url: ";
# $url = $io->getline;
$url = '';
}
my $query = $db->prepare("SELECT * FROM Linkage WHERE Feed = ?");
$query->execute($feed);
if (my $row = $query->fetchrow_hashref())
{
$db->do("UPDATE Linkage SET SaveMe = 1 WHERE Feed = ?",undef,$feed);
++$old;
}
else
{
$db->do("INSERT INTO Linkage (Name,Url,Feed,Blog,SaveMe) VALUES
(?,?,?,1,1)",undef,$title,$url,$feed);
++$new;
}
}
$db->do("DELETE FROM Linkage WHERE SaveMe = 0");
$db->do("ALTER TABLE Linkage DROP COLUMN SaveMe");
print "$new new feeds, $old old feeds\n";
$io->close;
$db->disconnect();
------------------------------
Date: 15 Oct 2004 18:55:25 -0700
From: pablo_tweek@yahoo.com (Pablo S)
Subject: DBD-ODBC - Running stored procs, can't bind default values.
Message-Id: <76d9ca90.0410151755.190c6372@posting.google.com>
Hello!
I've been using DBD::ODBC and Openlink's MSSQL ODBC driver to run
stored procs on a remote windows server, and it is working. I can get
my return values back just fine (-IF- I use the ODCB RPC syntax and
not the TSQL syntax), but I can't seem to run a stored proc and use
the 'default' keyword to not have to define a parameter.
e.g.:
$sth=$gpdbh->prepare("{ CALL sp_foo(?, ?, ?, ?, default, ?, default,
default, default, ?, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default, ?, ?,
?, default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, 1, default, default, default, default,
default, default, default, default, default, default, default, ?, ?)
}");
Instead of having unquoted strings (e.g. exec sp_foo
default,default,default) it looks like this on query analyzer:
declare @P1 char(255)
set @P1='1523 '
declare @P2 varchar(4000)
set @P2='6232 3407 3441 2221 2273 3442 5313 928 929 930 908 909 910
913 914 915 179 245 927 106 110 3420 870 1523 '
exec taSopLineIvcInsert '3 ', 'IVC005000', 'DBLAZE', '10/12/04',
'default', '100XLG', 0, 0, 0, '34 ', 0, 'default', 'default',
'default', 'default', 'default', 0, 'default', 'default', 0, 0, 0, 0,
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 0,
'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default',
'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default',
'default', 'default', 'default', 0, '8/12/04 ', '10/12/04 ',
'10/12/04', 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default',
'default', 'default', 'default', 'default', 0, 0, 'default', 0,
'default', 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 'default', 0, 1, 0, 'default',
'default', 0, 0, 0, 'default', 'default', 'default', 'default',
'default', @P1 output, @P2 output
select @P1, @P2
Note the single quotes!! Very bad! What happens is that the default
parameter gets quoted for nvarchar fields and gets put in as 0 for int
fields. Weird!!
If I use the {call sp_foo(,,?,,?,,,,,)} syntax, I only get the sp run
with the args I specify. It looks like this in query analyzer:
declare @P1 varchar(4000)
set @P1=''
declare @P2 varchar(4000)
set @P2=''
exec taSopLineIvcInsert '3 ', 'IVC005000', 'DBLAZE', '8/12/04 ',
'100XLG', '34', '10/12/04 ', '10/12/04', '10/12/04', 1, @P1 output,
@P2 output
select @P1, @P2
Which obviously does not fly. What can I do? Do you think this is an
ODBC driver issue, a DBI issue, or a DBD::ODBC issue?
Thanks in advance for any ideas!!
------------------------------
Date: 16 Oct 2004 04:28:58 GMT
From: <jari.aalto <AT> poboxes.com> (Jari Aalto+mail.perl)
Subject: Emacs modules for Perl programming
Message-Id: <perl-faq/emacs-lisp-modules_1097900908@rtfm.mit.edu>
Archive-name: perl-faq/emacs-lisp-modules
Posting-Frequency: 2 times a month
URL: http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/
Maintainer: Jari Aalto A T poboxes com
Announcement: "What Emacs lisp modules can help with programming Perl"
Preface
Emacs is your friend if you have to do anything comcerning software
development: It offers plug-in modules, written in Emacs lisp
(elisp) language, that makes all your programmings wishes come
true. Please introduce yourself to Emacs and your programming era
will get a new light.
Where to find Emacs/XEmacs
o Unix:
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs.html
http://www.xemacs.org/
o Unix Windows port (for Unix die-hards):
install http://www.cygwin.com/ which includes native Emacs 21.x.
and XEmacs port
o Pure Native Windows port
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/ntemacs.html
ftp://ftp.xemacs.org/pub/xemacs/windows/setup.exe
o More Emacs resources at
http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/ => Emacs resource page
Emacs Perl Modules
Cperl -- Perl programming mode
http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-authors/id/ILYAZ/cperl-mode/
http://math.berkeley.edu/~ilya/software/emacs/
by Ilya Zakharevich
CPerl is major mode for editing perl files. Forget the default
`perl-mode' that comes with Emacs, this is much better. Comes
standard in newest Emacs.
TinyPerl -- Perl related utilities
http://tiny-tools.sourceforge.net/
If you ever wonder how to deal with Perl POD pages or how to find
documentation from all perl manpages, this package is for you.
Couple of keystrokes and all the documentaion is in your hands.
o Instant function help: See documentation of `shift', `pop'...
o Show Perl manual pages in *pod* buffer
o Grep through all Perl manpages (.pod)
o Follow POD references e.g. [perlre] to next pod with RETURN
o Coloured pod pages with `font-lock'
o Separate `tiperl-pod-view-mode' for jumping topics and pages
forward and backward in *pod* buffer.
o Update `$VERSION' variable with YYYY.MMDD on save.
o Load source code into Emacs, like Devel::DProf.pm
o Prepare script (version numbering) and Upload it to PAUSE
o Generate autoload STUBS (Devel::SelfStubber) for you
Perl Module (.pm)
TinyIgrep -- Perl Code browsing and easy grepping
[TinyIgrep is included in Tiny Tools Kit]
To grep from all installed Perl modules, define database to
TinyIgrep. There is example file emacs-rc-tinyigrep.el that shows
how to set up dattabases for Perl5, Perl4 whatever you have
installed
TinyIgrep calls Igrep.el to to do the search, You can adjust
recursive grep options, set search case sensitivity, add user grep
options etc.
You can find latest `igrep.el' module at
<http://groups.google.com/groups?group=gnu.emacs.sources> The
maintainer is Jefin Rodgers <kevinr <AT> ihs.com>.
TinyCompile -- To Browse grep results in Emacs *compile* buffer
TinyCompile is a minor mode for *compile* buffer from where
you can collapse unwanted lines or shorten file URLs:
/asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
/asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/file2:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
-->
cd /asd/asd/asd/asd/ads/as/da/sd/as/as/asd/
file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
file1:NNN: MATCHED TEXT
End
------------------------------
Date: 15 Oct 2004 22:48:36 -0700
From: vijai.kalyan@gmail.com (Vijai Kalyan)
Subject: Modified example from Camel book doesn't work right - Please correct
Message-Id: <18b36e50.0410152148.34458852@posting.google.com>
Hi,
I tried a modification of the example form the Camel Book pg. 12: The
modified program is below:
------------------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl
# to test string splitting
# sample strings. we will split each string at the "."
@strings = ("org","org.htmlencoder","org.htmlencoder.element","org.htmlencoder.element.impl");
foreach $string (@strings) {
print "Processing string: ", $string, "$!\n";
@splitstring = split(".",$string);
foreach $component (@splitstring) {
print "Current component: ", $component, "$!\n";
$components{$component} = $component;
}
}
$index = 1;
foreach $component (sort keys %components) {
print "Component $index is: ", $component;
$index++;
}
----------------------------------------------------------
If I am right, this should produce the following output:
Processing string: org
Processing string: org.htmlencoder
Current component: org
Current component: htmlencoder
...
----------------------------------------------------------
But the only o/p I get is the "Processing string: " statements.
I am using Active Perl 5.8 alongwith the Open Perl IDE.
Suggestions?
thanx,
-vijai.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 06:18:58 GMT
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Modified example from Camel book doesn't work right - Please correct
Message-Id: <m33cd.1673$n81.447@trnddc08>
Vijai Kalyan wrote:
> I tried a modification of the example form the Camel Book pg. 12: The
> modified program is below:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> #!/usr/bin/perl
>
> # to test string splitting
>
> # sample strings. we will split each string at the "."
>
> @strings =
> ("org","org.htmlencoder","org.htmlencoder.element","org.htmlencoder.element.impl");
>
> foreach $string (@strings) {
> print "Processing string: ", $string, "$!\n";
> @splitstring = split(".",$string);
> foreach $component (@splitstring) {
> print "Current component: ", $component, "$!\n";
[...]
>
> But the only o/p I get is the "Processing string: " statements.
You missed that the first parameter of split is a RE.
Using a dot as you are effectively splitting on every single character,
leaving nothing behind that could be returned by split() as components.
Escaping the dot like in
@splitstring = split("\.",$string);
doesn't work eitrher, because the double quotes interpolate the text into a
single dot which in turn is interpreted as an RE again.
You either have to use
@splitstring = split("\\.",$string);
or single quote the single escaped dot
@splitstring = split('\.',$string);
or much, much better: if it's used as an RE then type it like an RE
@splitstring = split(/\./,$string);
The main advantage is that you are not being fooled into believing the first
parameter were a plain string.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:02:19 -0500
From: Samik Raychaudhuri <samik@frKKshKll.org>
Subject: Re: Multiline die
Message-Id: <ckpvfe$log$1@news.doit.wisc.edu>
Thanks very much for the replies. I learnt quite a few things from both the posts. I will surely be careful about the subject in future.
On 10/15/2004 10:48 AM, Paul Lalli wrote:
>
> I don't understand why you're bothering to set this $class->{errstr}
> value when you immediately die right after it. What is the point of
> this statement?
>
This is actually a package which is getting used in another program. I need the error string outside the package, that is the reason I am doing this. I guess I should have just done a return rather than die, as it does the same thing in this context.
>
>>None works.
>
>
> That is a remarkably poor error description. How is it not working?
> What is it doing that you didn't expect it to do?
>
> Running your (first) code, I get
> Can't modify logical or (||) in scalar assignment
>
I also got this. I should have CCP-ed this message. Will do it henceforth.
> That's because || has a higher precedence than =. Switching to 'or'
> instead of || would at least solve the compliation error (but would not
> do what you actually want it to do)
>
I didn't know that 'or' and '||' has different precedence (guess didn't read between lines !!). I used to think it's just a matter of readability why one uses 'or' than '||'.
> In the second example, you've forgotten the keyword 'do' before the
> block.
>
>
>>What is the way?
>
>
> I'd recommend avoiding the "boolean operators for all control-flow"
> mentality.
>
> unless ($sth=$dbh->prepare($querystr)){
> $class->{errstr}=DBI->errstr;
> die "Query: $querystr, ".DBI->errstr;
> }
>
This was suggested by the first post too. I am going to follow this, thanks.
Have a nice weekend.
--
Samik Raychaudhuri
To email me, replace 'K' with 'e' in the 'From' field.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 01:52:51 -0500
From: "Jerry Preston" <g-preston1@ti.com>
Subject: passing hash of arrays by reference
Message-Id: <ckqgg4$bh1$1@home.itg.ti.com>
Hi!
I am lost in trying to deal an hash of arrays.
First I go out and collect a group of number and pass back:
$RESULTS = $DAT->read_data( ""9994658", $DEBUG );
This works great and I can print the contents:
print " @{ $RESULTS->{ names }->{ 'Jerry' }";
Now I want to pass this to a sub to print out a graph using GD;
&graph_data( $j, $x_label_o, $y_label_o, @{ $RESULTS->{ names }->{
'Jerry' }} );
sub graph_data {
my ( $date_type, $x_label, $y_label, @data ) = @_;
Then:
my $mygraph = GD::Graph::linespoints->new( 600, 400 );
I get the error:
Invalid data set: 0
at
$myimage = $mygraph->plot( \@data ) or die $mygraph->error;
I know that I am not passing the reference/deference correctly.
What am I missing?
Thanks,
Jerry
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 08:56:44 GMT
From: "Drunken Canadian" <nospam@email.plz>
Subject: perl and time
Message-Id: <gn5cd.7609$_u6.4468@edtnps89>
Ok this may be a noob question but it almost 6am and the coffiee is no
longer working ......
time A = 00:01:04
time b = 0:0:58
how can i add the two times to be 00:02:02?
I know the format is not the same but that is what im stuck with....
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:10:55 -0500
From: "Jerry Preston" <g-preston1@ti.com>
Subject: Re: perl and time
Message-Id: <ckqoj4$g78$1@home.itg.ti.com>
Look at http://search.cpan.org/~stbey/Date-Calc-5.4/Calc.pod
check out the following:
# $time = time a + time b
$time = ( Date_to_Time($year,$month,$day, $hour,$min,$sec) +
Date_to_Time($year,$month,$day, $hour,$min,$sec));
($year,$month,$day, $hour,$min,$sec) = Time_to_Date( $time);
Jerry
"Drunken Canadian" <nospam@email.plz> wrote in message
news:gn5cd.7609$_u6.4468@edtnps89...
> Ok this may be a noob question but it almost 6am and the coffiee is no
> longer working ......
>
> time A = 00:01:04
> time b = 0:0:58
>
> how can i add the two times to be 00:02:02?
> I know the format is not the same but that is what im stuck with....
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 04:01:46 GMT
From: "Peter Wyzl" <wyzelli@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: String and Array Programming in Perl
Message-Id: <K21cd.27322$5O5.5533@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tad McClellan" <tadmc@augustmail.com>
> DeveloperGuy <Phillip.Small@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> for ($count= 0; $count <= $#users; $count++;) {
>
> A more Perlish way to get the same thing is:
>
> foreach my $count ( 0 .. $#users ) {
Even more 'Perlish' would be
for my $count (@users){
# From Perlsyn:
The foreach keyword is actually a synonym for the for keyword, so you can
use foreach for readability or for for brevity.
--
Wyzelli
{{${^_sub}=sub{scalar reverse shift}}{$_={${^_sub}=>{${^_scalar}=>
{${^_reverse}=>{${^_shift}=>{${^_print}=>{${^_sub}=>{}}}}}}}
}{s{.*}{rekcaH lreP rehtona tsuJ}}{print("@{[&${^_sub}($_)]}")}}
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 05:02:20 GMT
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: String and Array Programming in Perl
Message-Id: <wX1cd.386$EP4.184@trnddc06>
Peter Wyzl wrote:
>> foreach my $count ( 0 .. $#users ) {
>
> Even more 'Perlish' would be
> for my $count (@users){
Which on the other hand does a different task.
One loops through the indices of the array, the other loops through the
elements of the array.
Granted, in the vast majority of cases you want the elements, but you never
know....
jue
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:59:16 -0700
From: "Austin P. So (Hae Jin)" <who@what.where>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <ckq9rg$401$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
Anno Siegel wrote:
> Austin P. So (Hae Jin) <who@what.where> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>>I really don't understand the fascist notion that things must be done a
>>certain way in order to belong to the newsgroup community.
> Some countries go so far as to force their hapless citizens by law
> to drive on one paricular side of the road. Fascists! Bomb them,
> I say.
Seriously, do you honestly believe that this is proper analogy? Laws
created to preserve the life and safety of citizens are placed on the
same scale as the maintenance of "stylistic merit"?
Please.
Hmmm...that reminds me:
====
Reuters(AP)
Internet - Five people were killed and 21 people suffered brain
aneurysms when a when a feckless top-poster continued his rampage on
comp.lang.perl.misc. Witnesses say that top-poster B. Shite of unknown
location started posting only a month back seeking innocent advice on
homework questions. A series of concerted top-posting infractions were
later initiated which were clearly designed to upset the delicate
structural balance in this little gated community. "I knew there wuz
sumthin bout that guy when he first came here", said F. Ego. Police are
currently trying to locate the whereabouts of B. Shite.
====
Austin
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 22:27:42 -0700
From: "Austin P. So (Hae Jin)" <who@what.where>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <ckqbgm$4kh$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>
Michele Dondi wrote:
> [Note: top-posted version, for illustrative purposes only!]
I'm sorry, this kind of top-posting lacks any sort of stylistic sense.
In short, your illustration sucks big time...
> BULLSHIT!
Oh my!
> Don't abuse words you probably don't have the slightest
> comprehension about.
Sure sure...maybe then you shouldn't blindly scream out "bullshit",
unless you actually know what you are talking about?
You see...I occasionally top-post, but I would never do it unless it
made sense.
Of course, no one should ever reply to a post point by point by
top-posting, unless you can summarize it in one thought. And if you are
redirecting the exchange, then it also makes sense to top-post as an
introduction.
> But seriously this (Godwin's law) painting one's rhetorical
> opponents as Nazis is an odious and verminous ploy normally used,
> as here, to mask the intellectual bankruptcy of one's arguments.
> - Robin Chapman in sci.math
>
> (couldn't find better words to express about your idiotic cmt)
I liked BULLSHIT better...
Sorry...your quote of a quote on the application of "Godwin's law", is
in of itself bankrupt because more often than not, people like you
invoke it as an easy excuse to get out an argument.
And generally speaking, people who wave placards such as yourself are
often relatively new to the issue about which they are waving the
placard for and usually don't possess the fortitude for independent
thought. My guess you haven't been posting for more than 5 years...but I
could be wrong...
> No, it's not! For, for one thing, they're not dismissing what you
> write. On the contrary they're spreading all over *unnecessary* parts
> of it.
Like I said...this is not a good example of top-posting...
> It's just the desire (that can become an actual *need*, taking into
> account traffic/time considerations) to keep communication
> *efficient*.
There is "efficiency", and then there is blind adherence to what is
perceived as "efficiency" by those who are unable to understand the
concept and so must utilize a rulebook in order to organize their
thoughts in an efficient manner ("remember...keep your writing between
the lines!").
Spending time deciphering code takes time, but you are implying that a
top-post would *dramatically* increase the time spent on writing out a
reply? Are you serious?
> Because netiquette requires not to top-post.
Oh...I see..."requires", eh?
> I can imagine rare
> situations in which deliberately top-posting could be sensible.
Sure...my point exactly. But that wasn't the argument here.
> Most
> of time it's just saving a tiny percent on the writer's part and
> making potential readers waste a huge percent of their own
> time/resources.
You're kidding right? You've got to elaborate on this one.
> It's a matter of asking a question and deserving an answer, but
> avoiding to take care of helping others to help us.
>
> PS: don't make yourself a dumbass by abusing a word like "fascist".
"Dumbass"? Pehehehehee~
Well, dear, if you actually know the definition of "fascism" then maybe
you can tell me how I've "abused" the definition?
Austin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 05:54:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: "David H. Adler" <dha@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <slrncn1dso.c82.dha@panix2.panix.com>
On 2004-10-16, Austin P. So (Hae Jin) <who@what.where> wrote:
>
>
> Anno Siegel wrote:
>> Austin P. So (Hae Jin) <who@what.where> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
>>>I really don't understand the fascist notion that things must be done a
>>>certain way in order to belong to the newsgroup community.
>
>> Some countries go so far as to force their hapless citizens by law
>> to drive on one paricular side of the road. Fascists! Bomb them,
>> I say.
>
> Seriously, do you honestly believe that this is proper analogy? Laws
> created to preserve the life and safety of citizens are placed on the
> same scale as the maintenance of "stylistic merit"?
No, I believe that was probably something we like to call "sarcasm". :-)
dha
--
David H. Adler - <dha@panix.com> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Note that reversing a cable at BOTH ends is likely to result in perfect
operation of the hardware, which is not the aim of this exercise.
- "How to Destroy Your Computer", <http://www.dansdata.com/sbs3.htm>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:09:36 GMT
From: Ala Qumsieh <notvalid@email.com>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <kWBbd.30441$QJ3.3396@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>
Richard S Beckett wrote:
> Both systems have their merits, and I can understand why the people in some
> groups opt for one style, and the people in other groups opt for the other
> style.
I can't. I just don't see how top-posting is better than the
alternative. Nobody taught me how to reply to posts, but years before I
started frequenting newsgroups, I developed practically the same
strategy for replying to email from students of courses I used to TA. It
just makes sense. When a student sends an email with a few questions:
Q: What is A?
Q: Why is B different from C?
Q: Explain D.
top-posting a reply to all questions at once simply creates unnecessary
confusion. The best strategy is to answer each question independently by
quoting each question, and posting its answer just below it.
IMHO, of course.
--Ala
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:24:52 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <9dc0n0dot4vnpsf7c32jh8mmv9fpgpkl0v@4ax.com>
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:08:52 -0400, Shawn Corey
<shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> I hope nobody expects that kind of response to be all top posted!
>
>I don't. I never said top-posting is the *ONLY* way to post; I said to
>be tolerant to those who do!
In fact they *are* tolerant. It is *not* tolerated that they *insist*
on doing so.
There are basically two kinds of people in this regard: those who
top-post because they are newcomers to USENET in general and hardly
know that you can organize your article in a better way and when
advised not to do so *do* follow the advice maybe for convenience (but
then first or later realize the inherent advantages), and those who,
whatever the (supposed) reason they may have for top-posting, insist
that they must be free to do so and give names to those who say the
contrary, etc.
So you're saying that top-posting should be tolerated without even any
mention about it, that is with no limitation, including the case of
having to do with someone in the second category. But then to avoid
some pointless discussion with arrogant newbies you would miss the big
advantage of educating the vast majority of good-willed, well-mannered
newbies. All in all in the long term this would imply a decay in the
quality of the information exchange on the ng.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:24:53 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <m4d0n0htgtqsdrddj9nhme89huakn36l5t@4ax.com>
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:17:54 -0400, Shawn Corey
<shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Actually, no, you missed Tad's point. He just added you to his killfile.
>
>OK by me, he's already in my killfile.
Sounds suicidal to me...
If I think to people I'm searching the help of in this ng, names that
immediately spring to mind are Tad McLellan, Tassilo Parseval,
Abigail, Uri Guttman, Brian McCauley, Anno Siegel, Ben Morrow, Juergen
Exner (hoping not to forget anyone and not to misspell any of these
names, but I doubt so!)
Oh, and when he was active here I used to read nearly all posts by
Benjamin Goldberg, even if the subject didn't catch my attention
first. Just loved his style, but this is another story...
>Missing the point. I never said top-posting is the *ONLY* way to post; I
>said to be tolerant to those who do. In case you haven't notice, most of
In fact they *are* tolerant. It is *not* tolerated that they *insist*
on doing so.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:24:54 +0200
From: Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it>
Subject: Re: Top posting (was Re: Concatenating an array into one string?)
Message-Id: <0hd0n01ifqm1doig8ukvqqn8rj08n86c83@4ax.com>
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:19:28 -0400, Shawn Corey
<shawn.corey@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>A. Sinan Unur wrote:
>> That is utter nonsense. Indeed, when I first installed ActivePerl on my
>> Windows computer, I was not immediately aware of perldoc. On the other
>> hand, it took no searching to find the "Documentation" link in the
>> ActivePerl program group in my start menu. Clicking on that link gave me an
>> html page with a complete table of contents.
>
>Not everyone runs Activetsate.
So what? If one runs a self-compiled Perl distro, he will for sure be
skilled enough to find (at leat an entry point to) the relevant info.
If one runs a binary distro under cygwin he will similarly be used to
one of *NIX's most typical advantages over so-called-user-friendly
OSen: documentation! It won't take long for them to get to 'man perl'
and hence to all the rest. All this is true so much more of anyone
running any sort of perl under any sort of *NIX.
I really can't think of anyone running a thing called perl and failing
to have an easy way to the documentation.
Michele
--
{$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
(($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
.'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 7259
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