[24935] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 7185 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Sep 28 06:06:52 2004
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:05:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 28 Sep 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 7185
Today's topics:
Re: (was: decode the form information) <Joe.Smith@inwap.com>
ANNOUNCE: GraphViz::Data::Structure 0.11 (Joe McMahon)
Defining a string/array with perl characters (Duke of Hazard)
Re: Defining a string/array with perl characters <see@sig.invalid>
FileDeletionByDate - Error (tomcat)
Re: FileDeletionByDate - Error <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: FileDeletionByDate - Error (Anno Siegel)
Loop through scalar? (Jason Kinkade)
Re: Loop through scalar? (Anno Siegel)
Re: Loop through scalar? <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Loop through scalar? <Joe.Smith@inwap.com>
Re: new commands written in perl <emschwar@pobox.com>
Re: Parsing Email (Dan)
Re: Parsing Email <Joe.Smith@inwap.com>
Re: perl dev kit - perlrt.dll <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au>
Re: Perl-5.8-win32-bin-0.8.exe installation fails (Unknown Poster)
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:23:19 GMT
From: Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: (was: decode the form information)
Message-Id: <rr76d.271706$Fg5.249994@attbi_s53>
Larry wrote:
> and what do you think about this?
> read(STDIN, $buffer, $ENV{'CONTENT_LENGTH'});
I think that anyone can crash your server with hardly any effort.
Have you considered what will happen if CONTENT_LENGTH is 4294967297 ?
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:31:20 GMT
From: mcmahon@tribal.metalab.unc.edu (Joe McMahon)
Subject: ANNOUNCE: GraphViz::Data::Structure 0.11
Message-Id: <I4qDpo.qs0@zorch.sf-bay.org>
======================================================================
ANNOUNCE
GraphViz::Data::Structure version 0.12 has been uploaded to CPAN.
http://search.cpan.org/~mcmahon/GraphViz-Data-Structure
======================================================================
SYNOPSIS
use GraphViz::Data::Structure;
my $gvds = GraphViz:Data::Structure->new($data_structure);
print $gvds->graph()->as_png;
======================================================================
DESCRIPTION
This module makes it easy to visualise data structures, even recursive
or circular ones.
It is provided as an alternative to GraphViz::Data::Grapher. Differ-
ences:
"GraphViz::Data::Structure" handles structures of arbitrary depth and
complexity, automatically following links using a standard graph
traversal algorithm.
"GraphViz::Data::Grapher" creates graphics of indiividual substructures
(arrays, scalars, hashes) which keep the substructure type and data
together; "GraphViz::Data::Structure" does this by shape alone.
"GraphViz::Data::Structure" encapsulates object info (if any) directly
into the node being used to represent the class.
"GraphViz::Data::Grapher" colors its graphs; "GraphViz::Data::Struc-
ture" doesn't by default.
"GraphViz::Data:Structure" can parse out globs and CODE references
(almost as well as the debugger does).
REPRESENTING DATA STRUCTURES AS GRAPHS
"Graphviz::Data::Structure" tries to draw data structure diagrams with
a minimum of complexity and a maximum of elegance. To this end, the
following design choices were made:
Strings, scalars, filehandles, and code references are represented as
plain text.
Empty hashes and arrays are represented as Perl represents them in
code: hashes as "{}", and arrays as "[]", except if they are blessed
(see below).
Arrays are laid out as sets of boxes, in the order in which they were
found in the existing data structure (left-to-right or top-to-bottom,
depending on overall graph layout).
Hashes are laid out as pairs of sets of boxes, with the keys in alpha-
betically-sorted order top-to-bottom or left-to-right.
Blessed items have a box added to them in parallel, containing the name
of the class and its type (scalar/array/hash).
Code references are decoded to determine their fully-qualified package
name and are output as plaintext nodes.
Glob pointed to by references are disassembled and their individual
parts dumped.
ALGORITHM
The algorithm is a standard recursive depth-first treewalk; we deter-
mine how the current node should be added to the current graph, add it,
and then call ourselves recursively to determine how all nodes below
this one should be visualized.Edges are added after the subnodes are
added to the graph.
Items "within" the current subnode (array and hash elements which are
not references) are rendered inside a cell in the aggregate correspond-
ing to their position. References are represented by an edge linking
the appropriate postion in the aggregate to the appropriate subnode.
This code does its data-structure unwrapping in a manner very similar
to that used by "dumpvar.pl", the code used by the debugger to display
data structures as text. The initial structure treewalk was written in
isolation; the "dumpvar.pl" code was integrated only after it was rec-
ognized that there was more to life than hashes, arrays, and
scalars.The "dumpvar.pl" code to decode globs and code references was
used almost as-is.
Code was added to attempt to spot references to array or hash elements,
but this code still does not work as desired. Array and hash element
references still appear to be scalars to the current algorithm.
BUGS
Cannot catch pointers to individual array or hash elements yet and dis-
play the containing items, even though it tries.
BUGS EXPOSED IN DOT
Data structures which point directly to themselves will cause "dot" to
discard all input in some cases. There's currently no fix for this; you
can call the "was_null()" method for now, which will tell you the graph
was null and let you decide what to do.
It isn't possible (in current releases of "dot") to code a record label
which contains no text (e.g.: "{<port1>}"); this generates a zero-width
box. This has been worked around by placing a single period in places
where nothing at all would have been preferable. The "graphviz" devel-
opers have developed a patch for "dot" that corrects the problem, but
it is not yet in a released version, though it is in CVS.
AUTHOR
Joe McMahon <mcmahon@ibiblio.org>
COPYRIGHT
Copyright (C) 2001-2004, Joe McMahon
This module is free software; you can redistribute it or modify it
under the same terms as Perl itself.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 2004 19:10:31 -0700
From: squash@peoriadesignweb.com (Duke of Hazard)
Subject: Defining a string/array with perl characters
Message-Id: <2d21b838.0409271810.45051571@posting.google.com>
How can I define a string/array to that has these type of charcters in it:
/\
{}
()
;
"
I want perl to ignore these characters and treat them as standard text.
For example:
@print_javascript_validation = ' for (i = 0; i < s.length; i++)
{
// Check that current character isn't whitespace.
var c = s.charAt(i);
' # end define @print_javascript_validation
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:40:33 -0400
From: Bob Walton <see@sig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Defining a string/array with perl characters
Message-Id: <4158cd41$1_5@127.0.0.1>
Duke of Hazard wrote:
> How can I define a string/array to that has these type of charcters in it:
>
> /\
> {}
> ()
> ;
> "
>
> I want perl to ignore these characters and treat them as standard text.
>
> For example:
>
> @print_javascript_validation = ' for (i = 0; i < s.length; i++)
> {
> // Check that current character isn't whitespace.
> var c = s.charAt(i);
>
> ' # end define @print_javascript_validation
>
> Thanks!
You should check out "here" documents. It goes like:
...
my $print_javascript_validation = <<'EOT';
for (i = 0; i < s.length; i++)
{
// Check that current character isn't whitespace.
var c = s.charAt(i);
EOT
#end define $print_javascript_validation
...
A couple things to note:
The terminating string must start in at the beginning of its own line,
and no other characters, not even whitespace, may be on that line.
In your code, you assign astring to an array. Perl DWYM, but it is
confusing to readers of your code. Either assign the string to an array
element ($array[0]=...), or to a scalar variable ($var=...).
Read up about here documents:
perldoc perlop
particularly the section just before "Gory details of parsing quoted
constructs".
--
Bob Walton
Email: http://bwalton.com/cgi-bin/emailbob.pl
------------------------------
Date: 28 Sep 2004 01:41:58 -0700
From: t.piotrowski@gmail.com (tomcat)
Subject: FileDeletionByDate - Error
Message-Id: <404ed500.0409280041.58233ad5@posting.google.com>
Hello,
After executing script I have such a communicate:
Undefined subroutine &main::recurse called at ... line 74
Line 74 is:
recurse(\&Test_And_Delete, $Dir_Path);
Module recurse is installed, 1 line is use File::Recurse;.
What is wrong?
Regards,
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:16:32 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: FileDeletionByDate - Error
Message-Id: <2rsof9F1e105aU1@uni-berlin.de>
tomcat wrote:
> After executing script I have such a communicate:
> Undefined subroutine &main::recurse called at ... line 74
>
> Line 74 is:
> recurse(\&Test_And_Delete, $Dir_Path);
>
> Module recurse is installed, 1 line is use File::Recurse;.
>
> What is wrong?
Perl is case sensitive.
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: 28 Sep 2004 09:25:26 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: FileDeletionByDate - Error
Message-Id: <cjbam6$ps6$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
tomcat <t.piotrowski@gmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Hello,
>
> After executing script I have such a communicate:
> Undefined subroutine &main::recurse called at ... line 74
In your script? Or in the module file? Replacing essential parts of
the error message with "..." is not a good idea when you are seeking
help.
> Line 74 is:
> recurse(\&Test_And_Delete, $Dir_Path);
>
> Module recurse is installed, 1 line is use File::Recurse;.
What is File::Recurse? It is not published on CPAN, so how are we
supposed to help? In any case, the module isn't "recurse", it's
"File::Recurse". Does its documentation say that it exports a
function named "recurse"?
> What is wrong?
No idea, you have given far too little information. Read the
documentation that comes with File::Recurse.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: 28 Sep 2004 00:02:16 -0700
From: jkinkade@datashelter.net (Jason Kinkade)
Subject: Loop through scalar?
Message-Id: <7aa71c67.0409272302.197da8c6@posting.google.com>
I have a scalar/variable ($var) that looks like:
Line1
Line2
Line3
Line4
etc.
Theres obviously a new line after each Line#. I would like to loop
through this variable line by line with something like
foreach ($var)
{
print "Current Line: $_";
}
This reads the entire $var in. I want it line by line instead.
Any idea?
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Sep 2004 07:06:55 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Loop through scalar?
Message-Id: <cjb2if$kv0$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Jason Kinkade <jkinkade@datashelter.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> I have a scalar/variable ($var) that looks like:
>
> Line1
> Line2
> Line3
> Line4
> etc.
>
> Theres obviously a new line after each Line#. I would like to loop
> through this variable line by line with something like
>
> foreach ($var)
> {
> print "Current Line: $_";
> }
>
> This reads the entire $var in. I want it line by line instead.
It prints it out. No reading here.
> Any idea?
See perldoc -f split
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:10:57 GMT
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Loop through scalar?
Message-Id: <5886d.5277$ku4.2942@trnddc01>
Jason Kinkade wrote:
> I have a scalar/variable ($var) that looks like:
>
> Line1
> Line2
> Line3
> Line4
> etc.
>
> Theres obviously a new line after each Line#. I would like to loop
> through this variable line by line with something like
>
> foreach ($var)
> {
> print "Current Line: $_";
> }
>
> This reads the entire $var in.
Last time I checked prin() would print, not read but maybe this has changed
> I want it line by line instead.
> Any idea?
So you want to split() (hint, hint!) the string into several pieces?
jue
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 07:52:40 GMT
From: Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: Loop through scalar?
Message-Id: <cL86d.271871$mD.213715@attbi_s02>
Jason Kinkade wrote:
> Theres obviously a new line after each Line#. I would like to loop
> through this variable line by line with something like
Learn how to use split().
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:25:40 -0600
From: Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: new commands written in perl
Message-Id: <etofz536sez.fsf@wilson.emschwar>
Abigail <abigail@abigail.nl> writes:
> Eric Schwartz (emschwar@pobox.com) wrote on MMMMXLI September MCMXCIII in
> <URL:news:etollf1c04t.fsf@wilson.emschwar>:
> ,, But someone reading your code is going to likely come to the
> ,, conclusion that "" is the default, so when they hit '', they may
> ,, examine it more closely. That's all I'm saying.
>
>
> Do you do that? If you see a piece of code, are you going to inspect
> the quotes, make tallies to see what is the default, and when you
> encounter something that isn't the default, you're going to inspect
> it more closely?
Not anymore, but when I was learning Perl, I did something much like
it. I imagine I actually still do it, albeit unconsciously. Much as
when I learned to read English, I sounded out every letter until I was
fluent, at which point that all happened in the background, so to
speak.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 2004 20:20:28 -0700
From: dan_hoffard@hailmail.net (Dan)
Subject: Re: Parsing Email
Message-Id: <648fff84.0409271920.3f41c0c9@posting.google.com>
I think MIME::Parser may be overkill for what I am doing.. All I need
to do is get the body of the message.. Isn't there an easy way to do
it with file_read?
Thanks,
Dan
yf110@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca (Malcolm Dew-Jones) wrote in message news:<415860b8@news.victoria.tc.ca>...
> Dan (dan_hoffard@hailmail.net) wrote:
> : What is the best way to get the body of the following email message
> : into a file?
>
> use MIME::Parser
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 06:30:15 GMT
From: Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@inwap.com>
Subject: Re: Parsing Email
Message-Id: <Xx76d.36341$He1.7524@attbi_s01>
Dan wrote:
> I think MIME::Parser may be overkill for what I am doing.. All I need
> to do is get the body of the message.. Isn't there an easy way to do
> it with file_read?
Maybe, if you're parsing a simple plain-text message.
But if you're parsing a multi-part message with boundariess like
"------=_NextPart_000_0039_01C4A3F7.606C81F0" you will need MIME::Parser
or the equivalent.
-Joe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:42:17 +1000
From: Sisyphus <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: perl dev kit - perlrt.dll
Message-Id: <4158d0bf$0$4762$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>
Paul Masquelier wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am trying out perldevkit from activestate.
> When converting perl modules to dotnet assemblies, apparently some
> dll's are required when you put these assemblies on a pc without perl
> : perl58.dll, perlnh.dll and perlrt.dll. I cannot find perlrt.dll !
> Does anyone know where I can find this dll ??
> Thanks for any help,
>
> Paul
Googled for 'perlrt.dll'. First link it turned up:
http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Mail/Message/perl.net/2020572
Cheers,
Rob
--
To reply by email u have to take out the u in kalinaubears.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 2004 20:49:37 -0700
From: use63net@yahoo.com (Unknown Poster)
Subject: Re: Perl-5.8-win32-bin-0.8.exe installation fails
Message-Id: <c62e93ec.0409271949.3c1096f9@posting.google.com>
Bob Walton <see@sig.invalid> wrote in message news:<4157063e$1_2@127.0.0.1>...
> Unknown Poster wrote:
>
> > I've tried using the default the install program uses (which is
> > windows\temp for some strange reason) or creating a new directory for
> > the top-level. Either way, when I reach the "Configure" window, the
> > "Perl directory:" and "Apache2 directory:" textboxes are already
> > filled in as "..PERL/BIN". When I click the "Configure" button, this
> > error box appears:
> >
> > "Perl configuation failed
> >
> > ! Please give the top-level Perl directory."
>
> Please give more information: What is your platform (Windoze what?),
> and whose Perl distribution is it? Sounds like it might be
> apache.org's. If so, did you do what it says to do in
> Perl-5.8-win32-bin-0.8.readme ?
It's the Apache Win32 binary with Perl, mod_perl, etc. I'm using
Windows ME.
The readme file at http://www.reverse.net/pub/apache/perl/win32-bin/Perl-5.8-win32-bin-0.8.readme
really isn't much help because it just states what it supposed to
happen,
rather that what to do to install and configure it.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 02:22:59 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
Message-Id: <Uo-dne_JQe3OjMTcRVn-gQ@august.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 7185
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