[24829] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6980 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Sep 9 11:06:20 2004
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 08:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 9 Sep 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6980
Today's topics:
OT: Authoritarian Control (was: Xah Lee's Unixism) <marc0@autistici.org>
Re: parsing UTF-8 chars out of POST data (Aaron Anodide)
Re: Perl inconsistency <bigal187@invalid.rx.eastcoasttfc.com>
Re: perl open function for size bigger than 2 Gig (Peng Yue)
Re: Socket holding pattern <uri@stemsystems.com>
Using "Sleep " <georgekinley@hotmail.com>
Re: Using "Sleep " <mritty@gmail.com>
Re: Using "Sleep " <ebohlman@omsdev.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <spam@nimblegen.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism jmfbahciv@aol.com
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism jmfbahciv@aol.com
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism jmfbahciv@aol.com
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism jmfbahciv@aol.com
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <lynn@garlic.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:25:14 GMT
From: Marco Parrone <marc0@autistici.org>
Subject: OT: Authoritarian Control (was: Xah Lee's Unixism)
Message-Id: <87zn3ztw60.fsf_-_@marc0.dyndns.org>
Chuck Dillon on Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:10:30 -0500 writes:
> justifiable. Given the known presence of individuals in country that
> are organized and willing to carry out crimes on massive scales most
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nothing fits better this description more than armies and governments.
Open your eyes, _they_ are the criminals.
Anarchy Is Order.
--
Trenitalia censoring online!
Autistici/Inventati under attack!
-. .-----. .-----. ---------- .--.
#| o======|#####| o======|#####| |# #| .--. |##|
---. .------------. .------------. |----+####+-----+##+--+##|
o)o ) ( (o)o(o)o(o)o ) ( (o)o(o)o(o)o ) |###aAAb###aAAb###aAAb###|
= http://www.autistici.org/ai/trenitalia =-|--(doob)-(doob)-(doob)--#
o )) ( o )) ( o )) ( o )) ( o )) `uu' `uu' `uu'
------------------------------
Date: 9 Sep 2004 06:13:28 -0700
From: anodide@hotmail.com (Aaron Anodide)
Subject: Re: parsing UTF-8 chars out of POST data
Message-Id: <2db1147f.0409090513.387976c6@posting.google.com>
Well, I answered by own question:
The content-type of the page collecting the password was set to utf-8,
so the ALT+156 was put into the post data as two bytes, %C2%A3. When
I set the content-type to charset=ISO-8859-1, then ALT-156 was put
into the post data as one byte, %A3, which in turn was correctly
parsed by CGI::unescape.
Regards,
Aaron Anodide
anodide@hotmail.com (Aaron Anodide) wrote in message news:<2db1147f.0409080900.272f1b96@posting.google.com>...
> Hello,
>
> My question first: What is the correct way to deal with % signs in the
> POST data?
>
> Here's my situation - I have a cgi script recieving POST data:
>
> PASS=hello%C2%A3
>
> The %C2%A3 was generated by pressing ALT+156 (british pound sign).
>
> Legacy code I'm using calls CGI::unescape to process the %'s, so in
> this case it effectively calls (i don't know why is uses eval):
>
> eval '$password = CGI::unescape($in[$i]);';
>
> However, when this returs, length($password) = 7.
>
> If I set a local variable to the same string:
>
> $password1 = "hello£"; (this time using alt-156 directly in my
> editor)
>
> Then length($password1) = 6.
>
> Then I call an external validation program, a C++ program compiled in
> UNICODE:
>
> system( "validate", $password );
>
> It fails, because C2 and A3 appear as unique characters in argv[1].
>
> BUT, if I call:
>
> system( "validate", $password1 );
>
> Then the program works.
>
> Thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to think about this
> for me.
> Aaron Anodide
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 06:51:08 -0700
From: "187" <bigal187@invalid.rx.eastcoasttfc.com>
Subject: Re: Perl inconsistency
Message-Id: <2qb5ajFtbbheU1@uni-berlin.de>
Michele Dondi wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 04:19:30 +0200, Mike Mimic <ppagee@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
[...]
> BTW: this is one of the reasons why Perl6 is being designed to be more
> consistent (and IMHO *slightly* less magic).
Hmm... isn't that going to defeat some (if not a great deal) of the
uefulness and greatness of Perl? I, like many other Perl lovers, love
Perl *becuase* of this usefulness and "magic" :)
If you want any form of consistency, it's in *how* you use a particular
piece of code/expression. Understanding how to get something to return
something in a particular way has always seemed to be a huge part of
Perl and once someone nails this, the rest of Perl is, for the most
part, a walk in the park :-) (IMHO, the "magic", along with matering
RegEx, are the foundation of what makes Perl ($so = 'd.a.m.n.e.d') =~
s!\.!!g;#reat and useful! :-)
------------------------------
Date: 9 Sep 2004 07:50:56 -0700
From: peng.yue@gmail.com (Peng Yue)
Subject: Re: perl open function for size bigger than 2 Gig
Message-Id: <3436affa.0409090650.29bfddd2@posting.google.com>
> open(F,"| cat >/tmp/bigfile")
> or die "error starting cat: $!\n";
> print F "x"
> for (1..2**32+1);
> close(F)
> or die "error closing cat: $!\n";
Hi Brian and Joe, thank you for your posts. I check the perl which I
am using, there is no support for largefile. So as what you suggest,
it needs to be recompiled. However, I have sent out request and and
now I am waiting. Scott's solution sounds simple and good. I did
succeed in opening big file:
open(FILE, "cat bigfile | ");
however, I still have trouble with writing a big file. Just following
what Scott suggests, I try to use pipe to pass parameter to other
programs.
open(FILE, "| cat > bigfile") is not working for cat thing whatever
perl pass is a filename.
open(FILE," | echo >> bigfile");
print FILE "HELLO";
is also not working. It only append new line to bigfile. Can not
figure out why echo doesn't work or any other program to try.
Peng
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:49:29 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Socket holding pattern
Message-Id: <x7mzzzv9ho.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "AS" == Anno Siegel <anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de> writes:
AS> Another possibility is to open the relevant file handles (sockets)
AS> so that they are immune to close-on-exec. (Set $^F to something
AS> huge while they are opened). The old server process would have
AS> to tell the new one which file descriptors are in use, so the new
AS> one can take them over. Besides the compatibility issues already
AS> mentioned, there may be synchronization problems when both processes
AS> hold file handles to active connections.
it can be much harder than that too. most servers of this type (long
lived connections) keep state about each connection so that has to be
stored in a place away from the socket itself. if that data is in
objects and you reload that class, who knows what will happen to those
objects? the newly loaded code would always need to know it is fresh and
reload those objects and such. this idea of reloading code on the fly
and keeping connections is not for the feint of heart nor the weak in
coding and design skills.
and i agree, since this is only for a mud, who cares? kick all the
players and let them reconnect.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:09:47 GMT
From: "George Kinley" <georgekinley@hotmail.com>
Subject: Using "Sleep "
Message-Id: <vCY%c.24967$k4.485279@news1.nokia.com>
for(;;)
{
print "a";
sleep (1);
}
The above script does not print any thing on console , till I modify
it like
for(;;)
{
print "a\n";
sleep (1);
}
why?
--
-Gk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 13:49:04 GMT
From: "Paul Lalli" <mritty@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Using "Sleep "
Message-Id: <kbZ%c.2222$%N6.1482@trndny01>
"George Kinley" <georgekinley@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vCY%c.24967$k4.485279@news1.nokia.com...
> for(;;)
> {
> print "a";
> sleep (1);
> }
>
> The above script does not print any thing on console , till I modify
> it like
>
> for(;;)
> {
> print "a\n";
> sleep (1);
>
> }
> why?
This is known as output buffering. By default, STDOUT is line-buffered,
meaning the printed strings get stored until a newline is reached, at
which point everything is printed. This is controlled by the $|
variable.
Read
perldoc -q buffer
and
perldoc perlvar
to learn more about it.
Paul Lalli
------------------------------
Date: 9 Sep 2004 13:58:11 GMT
From: Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@omsdev.com>
Subject: Re: Using "Sleep "
Message-Id: <Xns955F5C1FDFAD5ebohlmanomsdevcom@130.133.1.4>
"George Kinley" <georgekinley@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:vCY%c.24967$k4.485279@news1.nokia.com:
> for(;;)
> {
> print "a";
> sleep (1);
> }
>
> The above script does not print any thing on console , till I modify
> it like
>
> for(;;)
> {
> print "a\n";
> sleep (1);
>
> }
> why?
Output buffering. perldoc -q flush will give you the detailed answer and
the appropriate workaround.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:10:30 -0500
From: Chuck Dillon <spam@nimblegen.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <chpkm2$3h2$1@grandcanyon.binc.net>
Jeff Shannon wrote:
> Chuck Dillon wrote:
>
>>> abridgement of
>>> civil liberties (as in the Patriot Act and the Gitmo gulag),
>>
>>
>>
>> [...] How many U.S. citizens have been victimized?
>
>
>
> That's the problem -- we have *no* way of finding out, because part of
> the Patriot Act is a gag rule that prevents the public from knowing how
> it's used. It *may* be a small number, and we'd all like to think that
> it is, but we really don't know.
>
>> How many dead U.S. citizens does it take to justify that
>> victimization? Both numbers are quire small.
>
>
>
> Here there's a lot of room to disagree -- it's a tragedy when U.S.
> citizens are killed, but it's an even greater tragedy when the entirety
> of the U.S. loses its freedoms in the name of "security".
That's intrinsically what the political process is all about. One has
to maintain confidence in the process. That requires that there be two
strong adversarial voices on *all* matters. Be it going to war, the
patriot act, abortion law or whatever.
If we went into Iraq and didn't hear dissension or if they passed the
patriot act and we didn't hear dissension then I would be worried. But
the process is healthy. It's how we identify a point of agreement in
the gray areas.
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety," as Benjamin Franklin said.
> The Patriot Act takes away our liberty in the name of temporary safety.
> We need better security than we had pre-9/11, certainly, but we can get
> it with a much lower cost to our personal liberty than has come with the
> Patriot Act. We *don't* need secret police investigations, secret
> courts, and secret detentions for secret reasons.
It's easy to say we *don't* need but not so easy to demonstrate. You
don't even offer a hand wave attempt at articulating an alternative.
In the political world everything is subject to debate. Taking the war
to the middle east, increasing policing powers, increasing intelligence
capabilities... But in the real world there is a huge threat and
action must be taken.
Granting of any power to police is a compromise of personal liberty. A
cost/benefit analysis is needed to determine how much such power is
justifiable. Given the known presence of individuals in country that
are organized and willing to carry out crimes on massive scales most
folks think that for the time being the patriot act is justified.
-- ced
--
Chuck Dillon
Senior Software Engineer
NimbleGen Systems Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:27:23 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <u656nvah0.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
Reynir Stefánsson <reynirhs@mi.is> writes:
> Wasn't the idea behind ISO/OSI that there should be One Network for
> everybody, instead of today's lot of interconnected nets?
interconnection and interoperability happen at both a protocol level
and a operational level .... being able to have both independence
and interoperability offers huge amount of advantages.
i don't know what the original idea was .... however, my impression of
looking at what it became .... was that it sprang up from telco
point-to-point copper wire orientation. iso/osi even precludes LANs.
the work on high speed protocol ... which would go directly from
level4/transport layer to LAN/MAC interface ... was precluded in ISO
standards organizations because it didn't conform to OSI model for
two reasons
1) it skipped the OSI level4/level3 transport/network interface and
was therefor precluded in ISO standards bodies
2) it went directly to the LAN/MAC interface .... LAN/MAC interface
is not allowed for in the OSI model ... so therefor intefacing to
LAN/MAC interface would be violation of OSI model
... the sort of third reason was that it would also incorporate
internetworking layer within its functionality .... also a violation
of the OSI model.
misc. past comments
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#xtphsp
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 07:42:20 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <u1xhbv9s3.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> writes:
> It was an upgrade from 56k. The first versions of NSFnet was not
> really scalable either; noone knew quite how to design a erally
> scalable network, so that came as we went.
we had a project that i called HSDT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt
for high-speed data transport ... to differentiate from a lot of stuff
at the time that was communication oriented ... and had real T1 (in
some cases clear-channel T1 w/o the 193rd bit) and higher speed
connections. It had an operational backbone ... and we weren't allowed
to directly bid NSFNET1 .... although my wife went to the director of
NSF and got a technical audit. The technical audit summary said
something to the effect that what we had running was at least five
years ahead of all NSFNET1 bid submissions to build something new.
one of the other nagging issues was that all links on the internal
network
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#internalnet
had to be encrypted. at the time, not only were there not a whole lot
of boxes that supported full T1 and higher speed links ... but there
also weren't a whole lot of boxes that support full T1 and higher
speed encryption.
a joke a like to tell ... which occured possibly two years before the
NSFNET1 RFP announcement ... was about a posting defining "high-speed"
.... earlier tellings:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#33b High Speed Data Transport (HSDT)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#69 oddly portable machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#45 IBM's Workplace OS (Was: .. Pink)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003m.html#59 SR 15,15
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#12 network history
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 04 13:07:05 GMT
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <4140688e$0$6912$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
In article <413F43AC.9D2088AF@yahoo.com>,
CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>> Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
>>> CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> Alan Balmer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>... snip ...
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not a fan of Mr Hatch, but blaming him for the shuttle
>>>>> disaster(s) is somewhat over the top. Why not blame President
>>>>> Bush? That's the popular thing nowadays.
>>>>
>>>> Alright, if you insist. But is it really necessary? We can find
>>>> adequate charges without reaching very hard.
>>>
>>> Then why are so many people reaching so hard?
>>
>> It's apparently having the desired effect. The subject of
>> the radio talk show last night was about the results of a poll
>> where 41% of the people asked (New York state residents) believed
>> that Bush and Co. knew that the WTC was going to be attacked and
>> did nothing to prevent it. The Bush-bashing is working. The
>> Democrats are opening the city gates to the barbarians.
>
>I deplore your tast in radio talk shows.
Oh! Taste in talk shows.
> .. It doesn't take much to
>create a rabble rousing poll to increase ratings.
I listen to them for data about how the rabble is thinking
and the logic they use to form their opinions. I also
watch those religious cable TV shows to gather the same kinds
of information; note that I can only manage to listen to these
about 10 minutes and not more than once/year. I also listen
to Rushie to see what kinds of lies that half of the world is
listening to. I watch CSPAN who never cut out for commericals,
don't edit too much, and tend to leave the mike on after the
meetings break up.
>
>There is no need, nor cause, to impute Bush & Co. with
>intrinsically evil intentions. It is quite enough to point to
>their lack of capability, and bull headed 'revenge for daddy'
>propensities. The state of the economy, unemployment, poverty
>rate, medical care, deficit, death rate in Iraq (both of Americans
>and Iraqis), abandonment of the Bin Laden hunt, abridgement of
>civil liberties (as in the Patriot Act and the Gitmo gulag), poor
>choice of companions (Halliburton and other political donors and
>trough feeders, and the 'plausible deniability' of the Swiftboat
>gang), irritation of allies, inability to deal with North Korea
>(due to involvement with useless adventures), abandonment of
>efforts towards a Palestinian peace, all spring to immediate mind.
Well, your Bush-hater campaign is working beyond all your
expectations. One day, you will have to live it.
>
>Yes, we have had no experience with a Kerry administration,
OH, fuckmeverymuch. I am in Mass. We do have some
experience of a Kerry administration. For those you who don't,
watch how he runs his campaign. He will run the country in the
same manner.
> .. but we
>have had far too much experience with a Bush administration.
Do you think that hiring a person who doesn't like to do
work will make things better? Things can be worse..a lot
worse.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 04 13:12:17 GMT
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <414069c6$0$6912$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
In article <10juvnrt88k4868@corp.supernews.com>,
Jeff Shannon <jeff@ccvcorp.com> wrote:
>Chuck Dillon wrote:
>
>>> abridgement of
>>> civil liberties (as in the Patriot Act and the Gitmo gulag),
>>
>>
>> [...] How many U.S. citizens have been victimized?
>
>
>That's the problem -- we have *no* way of finding out, because part of
>the Patriot Act is a gag rule that prevents the public from knowing how
>it's used. It *may* be a small number, and we'd all like to think that
>it is, but we really don't know.
>
>> How many dead U.S. citizens does it take to justify that
>> victimization? Both numbers are quire small.
>
>
>Here there's a lot of room to disagree -- it's a tragedy when U.S.
>citizens are killed, but it's an even greater tragedy when the entirety
>of the U.S. loses its freedoms in the name of "security".
Okay, that's it! Tell me what freedoms you have lost. Be specific.
No sound bytes and no rhetoric parroting allowed.
I really want to know. People keep saying this but never say which
freedoms have been lost.
<snip quote>
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 04 13:15:05 GMT
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <41406a6d$0$6912$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
In article <20040908192913.67c07e7d.steveo@eircom.net>,
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Sep 04 11:48:36 GMT
>jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In article <p9qdnTnxTYDJR6PcRVn-pw@speakeasy.net>,
>> rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>
>> >*Only* a month?!? Here's the uptime for one of my FreeBSD boxes
>> >[an old, slow '486]:
>> >
>> > % uptime
>> > 2:44AM up 630 days, 21:14, 1 user, load averages: 0.06, 0.02,
0.00
>> > %
>> >
>> >That's over *20* months!!
>>
>> I bet we can measure the youngster's age by the uptimes he boasts.
>
> The Yahoo! server farm ran to very long uptimes last time I had
>any details. The reason being that they commission a machine, add it to
>the farm and leave it running until it is replaced two or three years
>later.
Sure. But regular users of such computing services never get an
uptime report. Hell, they have no idea how many systems their
own webbit has used, let alone all the code that was executed
to paint that pretty picture on their TTY screen.
I bet, if we start asking, we might even get some bizarre
definitions of uptime.
I do know that the defintion of CPU runtime is disappearing.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 04 13:21:45 GMT
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <41406bfe$0$6912$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
In article <5sjnhc.bb81.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,
Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> wrote:
>In article <413f049f$0$6914$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, <jmfbahciv@aol.com>
wrote:
>>In article <p9qdnTnxTYDJR6PcRVn-pw@speakeasy.net>,
>> rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>>>John Thingstad <john.thingstad@chello.no> wrote:
>>>+---------------
>>>| As you may know XP is not particularly good as a server.
>>>....
>>>| I would go for some Unix implementation (perhaps free-BSD)
>>>| As a workstation XP seems OK.
>>>| I hear a lot of complaints about XP's stability.
>>>| Since I have not administered a XP network, yet, I cant comment on
that.
>>>| But in my personal experience it is a stable system.
>>>| I frequently let my computer run 24 hrs. a day for more than a month
>>>| without a need to reboot. So for me it is adequate.
>>>+---------------
>>>
>>>*Only* a month?!? Here's the uptime for one of my FreeBSD boxes
>>>[an old, slow '486]:
>>>
>>> % uptime
>>> 2:44AM up 630 days, 21:14, 1 user, load averages: 0.06, 0.02, 0.00
>>> %
>>>
>>>That's over *20* months!!
>>
>>I bet we can measure the youngster's age by the uptimes he boasts.
>>>
>>>
>>>-Rob
>>>
>>>p.s. I remember the time back in the early 70's (at Emory Univ.) when
>>>we called DEC Field Service to complain that our PDP-10 had an uptime
>>>of over a year. Why were we complaining? Well, that meant that DEC Field
>>>Service had failed to perform scheduled preventive maintenance (which
>>>usually involved at least one power cycle)... ;-}
>>
>>One? Had to be two. FS was supposed to use their service pack
>>as the system disk, not the customers!!! I believe that was
>>true even in 1970. The dangers of smushing bits was too great.
>
>But with a PM you had to do a cold start. All the disks had to be
>spun down, filters changed, and they had to spin for an ungodly long
>time after the filter change before heads could be enabled again. This
>was to bring all the dust that was let loose in the process into the new
>filters before heads went to fly over the platters again.
That's why there was always two boots; one for FS to bring up thier
service pack to run diags; the other one was when the system was
handed back to the customer.
>
>Also power supplies had to be checked for the dreaded capacitor
>problems. Tape drives also had these. This was industry-wide
>problems; and news from a few burned UPS'es the last couple of
>months tell me that the capacitor problems are still with us.
>
>It was a real accomplishment when we in 1988 could do a full
>PM (Prime gear) without shutting down the system. All disks were
>mirrored, and all power duplicated, so we shut down half of the
>hardware and did PM on that; and took the other half next week.
That's exactly what JMF's and TW's implementation of SMP gave
the customer. Not only that but a catastrophic hardware failure
no longer brought down the whole system. What was really amusing
to me is that TW and JMF had no idea what they'ld created. The
first time I told them that a system would never ever have
to be rebooted, I grew two heads. OTOH, it was impossible
to convince FS that a PM didn't have to be a system-wide PM.
I don't think we ever got that change permutated throughout the
org.
>
>SMD filters were used at a quite high rate; even inside well
>filtered rooms. ISTR 6 months was a pretty long interval between PM's.
Our FS liked to have PMs done weekly and then a major PM done monthly.
I never had time to learn exactly what the procedures were. They
were documented and laid out but I don't know what happened to
that info.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:02:33 -0600
From: Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <uwtz3trhy.fsf@mail.comcast.net>
Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> writes:
> But with a PM you had to do a cold start. All the disks had to be
> spun down, filters changed, and they had to spin for an ungodly long
> time after the filter change before heads could be enabled
> again. This was to bring all the dust that was let loose in the
> process into the new filters before heads went to fly over the
> platters again.
>
> Also power supplies had to be checked for the dreaded capacitor
> problems. Tape drives also had these. This was industry-wide
> problems; and news from a few burned UPS'es the last couple of
> months tell me that the capacitor problems are still with us.
>
> It was a real accomplishment when we in 1988 could do a full PM
> (Prime gear) without shutting down the system. All disks were
> mirrored, and all power duplicated, so we shut down half of the
> hardware and did PM on that; and took the other half next week.
>
> SMD filters were used at a quite high rate; even inside well
> filtered rooms. ISTR 6 months was a pretty long interval between
> PM's.
360s, 370s, etc differentiated between smp ... which was either
symmetrical multiprocessing or shared memory (multi-)processing
... and loosely-coupled multiprocessing (clusters).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#smp
in the 70s, my wife did stint in POK responsible for loosely-coupled
multiprocessing architecture and came up with peer-coupled shared
data
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#shareddata
also in the 70s, i had done a re-org of the virtual memory
infrastructure for vm/cms. part of it was released as something called
discontiguous shared memory ... and other pieces of it was released
as part of the resource manager having to do with page migration
(moving virtual pages between different backing store devices).
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#fairshare
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#wsclock
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#mmap
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#adcon
in the mid-70s, one of the vm/cms timesharing service bureaus
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#timeshare
was starting to offer 7x24 service to customers around the world; one
of the issues was being able to still schedule PM .... when there
was never a time that there wasn't anybody using the system. they
had already providing support for loosely-coupled, similar to
HONE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hone
for scallability & load balancing. what they did in the mid-70s was to
expand the "page migration" ... to include all control blocks ... so
that processes could be migrated off one processor complex (in a
loosely-coupled environment) to a different processor complex ... so
a processor complex could be taken offline for PM.
in the late '80s, we started the high availability, cluster multiprocessing
project:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
of course the airline res system had been doing similar things on 360s
starting in the 60s.
totally random references to airline res systems, tpf, acp, and/or pars:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#29 Mainframes & Unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#17 Old Computers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#100 Why won't the AS/400 die? Or, It's 1999 why do I have to learn how to use
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#103 IBM 9020 computers used by FAA (was Re: EPO stories (was: HELP IT'S HOT!!!!!))
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#136a checks (was S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/99.html#152 Uptime (was Re: Q: S/390 on PowerPC?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#20 How many Megaflops and when?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#61 VM (not VMS or Virtual Machine, the IBM sort)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000b.html#65 oddly portable machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000c.html#60 Disincentives for MVS & future of MVS systems programmers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#21 Competitors to SABRE? Big Iron
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000e.html#22 Is a VAX a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2000f.html#20 Competitors to SABRE?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001.html#26 Disk caching and file systems. Disk history...people forget
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#37 John Mashey's greatest hits
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001d.html#69 Block oriented I/O over IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001e.html#2 Block oriented I/O over IP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#35 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#45 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#46 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#47 The Alpha/IA64 Hybrid
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001g.html#49 Did AT&T offer Unix to Digital Equipment in the 70s?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001j.html#17 I hate Compaq
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#0 TSS/360
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001n.html#3 News IBM loses supercomputer crown
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002c.html#9 IBM Doesn't Make Small MP's Anymore
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#2 Computers in Science Fiction
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002g.html#3 Why are Mainframe Computers really still in use at all?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#12 Why did OSI fail compared with TCP-IP?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002h.html#43 IBM doing anything for 50th Anniv?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#63 Hercules and System/390 - do we need it?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002i.html#83 HONE
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002j.html#83 Summary: Robots of Doom
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002m.html#67 Tweaking old computers?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002n.html#29 why does wait state exist?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002o.html#28 TPF
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2002p.html#58 AMP vs SMP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003.html#48 InfiniBand Group Sharply, Evenly Divided
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003c.html#30 diffence between itanium and alpha
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003d.html#67 unix
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#30 One Processor is bad?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#32 One Processor is bad?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003g.html#37 Lisp Machines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#2 Fix the shuttle or fly it unmanned
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003k.html#3 Ping: Anne & Lynn Wheeler
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003n.html#47 What makes a mainframe a mainframe?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003p.html#45 Saturation Design Point
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#24 40th anniversary of IBM System/360 on 7 Apr 2004
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#49 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004.html#50 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#6 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004b.html#7 Mainframe not a good architecture for interactive workloads
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004c.html#35 Computer-oriented license plates
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004e.html#44 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004f.html#58 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2004g.html#14 Infiniband - practicalities for small clusters
--
Anne & Lynn Wheeler | http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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