[24819] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6972 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Sep 7 18:11:10 2004
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 15:10:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 7 Sep 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6972
Today's topics:
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <kkt@drizzle.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <albalmer@att.net>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <albalmer@att.net>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <albalmer@att.net>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <albalmer@att.net>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <marc@snafu.org>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <john.thingstad@chello.no>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 18:18:33 +0200
From: Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <p0nkhc.m6j.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>
In article <413daee5$0$6932$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>, <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:
>In article <1s4ihc.4i4.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,
> Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> wrote:
>>In article <413c5b9c$0$19705$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>,
>> <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:
>>>In article <rv1hhc.mtv2.ln@via.reistad.priv.no>,
>>> Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> wrote:
>>
>>1995 was the year everyone and Bill Gates discovered the Internet
>>existed; and wanted in on the deal. Suddenly everyone needed Internet
>>solutions.
>
>I knew the Internet existed when I started reading the ads in the
>WSJ and they had this strange arrangement of characters that
>began with www. At first, there were only a few. _One_ year
>later there were lot. Less than two years later, everybody had
>one. I watch ads to foretell trends.
I knew we had succeeded in making the Internet mainstream when
I saw that the plane I was about to board had the URL I made for
them written along the entire plane in 2 meter high letters.
And we had to do a hard sell for the Internet bit. 2 years later more
than 50% of their tickets were sold over the Internet.
>>>Since TCP/IP was in the 90s, I couldn't have heard about it
>>>over the wall (I think I stopped working in 1987). I could
>>>swear that cybercurd meant something.
>>>
>>>ISTR, the -20 types yakking about it.
>>
>>TCP/IP was launched in 1982, and the Internet (or the Arpanet, rather)
>>converted Jan 1st 1983; with final NCP service turned off everywhere
>>by mid march 1983.
>
>Aha! Whew! Then my memory isn't completely gone. If it was
>launched in 1982, then they had to have been yakking about it
>in 1980 and 1981.
The period 1978-1982 was the intense design phase of the infrastructure
of the modern Internet. It would have been on the mind of IT engineers
worldwide.
>>Tops20 has an IP package; but it was pretty rudimentary in version 4,
>>and not quite complete even by those standards even in version 7.
>
>Version 4 and version 7 were way after 1980.
Yep, but it was in version 4 there was real TCP/IP support. ISTR there
was a retrofit to a late version 3; but that was made after V4 was out.
This version more or less depended on other boxes, just like a PC does
today. "Real" TCP/IP came out in V7 (or possibly late V6. I more or
less skipped the entire V6 of Tops20).
.. mrr
------------------------------
Date: 07 Sep 2004 09:37:20 -0700
From: Patrick Scheible <kkt@drizzle.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <tqm4qmadohr.fsf@drizzle.com>
Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
> On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 18:12:20 +0100
> "Stimpy" <stimpy1997uk@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > been other than aquariums and zoos. There are ruts in the
> > > stone-block pavements caused by running carts to/from harbor/city.
> > > We were told that these ruts were worn down by usage.
> >
> > There are many streets and paths in the UK still in everyday use where this
> > is the case!
>
> There are stone stairs in my old school and in many college buildings
> that have deep curves worn into them by feet over a century or three.
Heh. There are marble stairs with deep wear in them in the main
library at my school... only that particular building was only built
in 1925 or thereabouts.
-- Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:29:04 -0700
From: Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <v9rrj09kghqeggkeuo7p48vnrmrtbuodab@4ax.com>
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:49:18 GMT, gwschenk@fuzz.socal.rr.com (Gary
Schenk) wrote:
>In comp.lang.perl.misc Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:58:35 GMT, gwschenk@fuzz.socal.rr.com (Gary
>> Schenk) wrote:
>>
>>>In comp.lang.perl.misc Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not a fan of Mr Hatch, but blaming him for the shuttle disaster(s)
>>>> is somewhat over the top. Why not blame President Bush? That's the
>>>> popular thing nowadays.
>>>>
>>>
>>>IIRC, the vice-president is in charge of the space program, so shouldn't
>>>President Bush accept some blame?
>>
>> The Vice President isn't "in charge" of the space program, except for
>> Al Gore, who probably invented it.
>>
>
>Don't you dittoheads ever get your facts right?
What's a "dittohead"? Are you trying to convey a personal insult of
some kind? Please let me know, so I can call you a name, too.
>
>http://www.jfklibrary.org/images/jfk-lbj01.jpg
>
>http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/jb/modern/launch_1
Johnson is no longer Vice President.
>http://www.thespacereview.com/article/163/1
>
As shown in the last reference, there is currently a *proposal* for a
new steering council to be chaired by the VP. Hasn't happened yet, and
if it does, it will be quite a stretch to say that it's "in charge" of
the space program.
>> The shuttles were designed and built some considerable time before
>> Bush became President.
>>
>
>True, although the first shuttle flight was in 1981, while Bush was vice-
>president.
>
>As the above references show, Bush was not head of the space council
>as Reagan was not a fan. Bush was busy selling anthrax and missiles
>to Iran and Iraq.
>
>> Good try, though, the DNC would be proud.
>>
>
>I doubt it.
Don't sell your efforts short. Mr. Kerry needs all the help he can
get.
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis@att.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:29:56 -0700
From: Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <10srj09tdkvim71i677g7eh7b2nk1qkmfm@4ax.com>
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 06:02:03 GMT, CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Alan Balmer wrote:
>>
>... snip ...
>>
>> I'm not a fan of Mr Hatch, but blaming him for the shuttle
>> disaster(s) is somewhat over the top. Why not blame President
>> Bush? That's the popular thing nowadays.
>
>Alright, if you insist. But is it really necessary? We can find
>adequate charges without reaching very hard.
Then why are so many people reaching so hard?
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis@att.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:50:38 -0700
From: Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <e2trj0dc6hotbn07oicmst6b95kgva27kh@4ax.com>
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:08:22 GMT, Larry Elmore
<ljelmore_@_comcast_._net> wrote:
>Rupert Pigott wrote:
>> Larry Elmore wrote:
>>
Good read. Thanks for digging this up. However, you seem to have left
out the part about it being Orrin Hatch's fault ;-)
I did notice that the article indicated that the four bids were
"relatively similar in ... technology."
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis@att.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:57:17 -0700
From: Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <0itrj0ppr5urv2cohmhjmbtlc4ka794fc4@4ax.com>
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 17:47:20 GMT, "John W. Kennedy"
<jwkenne@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Rupert Pigott wrote:
>> I would hope that Morton Thiokol's experience at building a diverse
>> range of rockets might have been a factor in the decision too.
>
>I would hope so too, but that isn't how it happened. In history as it
>actually went, the Morton-Thiokol design came in a distant fourth, and
>the White House ordered NASA to try again, but this time come up with
>the "right" answer.
This disagrees with the scenario presented (and documented)
elsethread. Do you have supporting references?
--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
removebalmerconsultingthis@att.net
------------------------------
Date: 07 Sep 2004 11:46:06 -0700
From: Marco S Hyman <marc@snafu.org>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <x73c1t3ok1.fsf@neko.snafu.org>
Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> writes:
> First ISP : 1983 (uunet, EUnet followed next year)
I thought PSINET claimed to be the first. Let's see....
http://www.zakon.org/robert/internet/timeline/ claimes UUNET wasn't
founded until 1987 and doesn't mention PSINET until '91 when CIX
was created. Oh well.
Interesting charts regarding the growth from about '90 on at the
bottom of that page.
/ marc
------------------------------
Date: 07 Sep 04 09:44:24 -0800
From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <769.746T1245T5844062@kltpzyxm.invalid>
In article <20040904.0140.57670snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk
(Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes:
>On Thursday, in article
><slrncjf52a.oa.amajorel@vulcain.knox.com> amajorel@teezer.fr
>"Andre Majorel" wrote:
>
>> Are you arguing that the stability comes from the API, not from
>> the implementation ? If so, why has NT become more stable over
>> the years, since its API has not changed ?
>
>I'd like to imagine that it's because there are fewer fuckwits using
>it; BICBW....
Does this mean that XP is getting less stable?
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:42:46 GMT
From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <413E07BA.F797BD3B@yahoo.com>
Morten Reistad wrote:
> <jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:
>> Morten Reistad <firstname@lastname.pr1v.n0> wrote:
>
... snip ...
>>>
>>> TCP/IP was launched in 1982, and the Internet (or the Arpanet,
>>> rather) converted Jan 1st 1983; with final NCP service turned
>>> off everywhere by mid march 1983.
>>
>> Aha! Whew! Then my memory isn't completely gone. If it was
>> launched in 1982, then they had to have been yakking about it
>> in 1980 and 1981.
>
> The period 1978-1982 was the intense design phase of the
> infrastructure of the modern Internet. It would have been on
> the mind of IT engineers worldwide.
Back in those days (early 70s) we hired a consultant for some of
our software development, both because I was overloaded and
because I didn't know enough. He was Gerry Ogdin, out of the
Washington area, and active in the development of the Arpanet.
I learned a good deal from him, and managed to largely ignore his
irascibility etc. That may have been connected with the fact that
he later (so I have been told) underwent a sex change operation
and became Geraldine.
I wonder what became of him/her.
--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush.
"If I knew then what I know today, I would still have invaded
Iraq. It was the right decision" - G.W. Bush, 2004-08-02
------------------------------
Date: 07 Sep 04 12:45:06 -0800
From: "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <764.746T316T7654137@kltpzyxm.invalid>
In article <tqm4qmadohr.fsf@drizzle.com>, kkt@drizzle.com
(Patrick Scheible) writes:
>Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>
>> There are stone stairs in my old school and in many college
>> buildings that have deep curves worn into them by feet over a
>> century or three.
>
>Heh. There are marble stairs with deep wear in them in the main
>library at my school... only that particular building was only built
>in 1925 or thereabouts.
Another damned contractor swapping in substandard materials...
--
/~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
\ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
/ \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:59:44 +0200
From: "John Thingstad" <john.thingstad@chello.no>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <opsdy5xuappqzri1@mjolner.upc.no>
On 07 Sep 04 09:44:24 -0800, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> In article <20040904.0140.57670snz@dsl.co.uk>, bhk@dsl.co.uk
> (Brian {Hamilton Kelly}) writes:
>
>> On Thursday, in article
>> <slrncjf52a.oa.amajorel@vulcain.knox.com> amajorel@teezer.fr
>> "Andre Majorel" wrote:
>>
>>> Are you arguing that the stability comes from the API, not from
>>> the implementation ? If so, why has NT become more stable over
>>> the years, since its API has not changed ?
>>
>> I'd like to imagine that it's because there are fewer fuckwits using
>> it; BICBW....
>
> Does this mean that XP is getting less stable?
>
> --
> /~\ cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid (Charlie Gibbs)
> \ / I'm really at ac.dekanfrus if you read it the right way.
> X Top-posted messages will probably be ignored. See RFC1855.
> / \ HTML will DEFINITELY be ignored. Join the ASCII ribbon campaign!
>
As you may know XP is not particularly good as a server.
Exchange server (email) has always sucked,
you can disengage the windows interface,
the system still wants to warn you on the screen forcing you to have
access to the screen at all times,
so the function as a server it leaves something to be desired.
I would go for some Unix implementation (perhaps free-BSD)
As a workstation XP seems OK.
I hear a lot of complaints about XP's stability.
Since I have not administered a XP network, yet, I cant comment on that.
But in my personal experience it is a stable system.
I frequently let my computer run 24 hrs. a day for more than a month
without
a need to reboot. So for me it is adequate.
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:59:17 GMT
From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <413E2025.828C091@yahoo.com>
Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> (Patrick Scheible) writes:
>> Steve O'Hara-Smith <steveo@eircom.net> writes:
>>
>>> There are stone stairs in my old school and in many college
>>> buildings that have deep curves worn into them by feet over a
>>> century or three.
>>
>> Heh. There are marble stairs with deep wear in them in the main
>> library at my school... only that particular building was only built
>> in 1925 or thereabouts.
>
> Another damned contractor swapping in substandard materials...
I believe marble is a relatively soft stone, and not suitable for
heavy traffic. Maybe you should castigate the architect.
--
"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office
in foreign policy matters with war on my mind." - Bush.
"If I knew then what I know today, I would still have invaded
Iraq. It was the right decision" - G.W. Bush, 2004-08-02
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6972
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