[24806] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6959 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Sep 4 09:06:21 2004
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 06:05:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 4 Sep 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6959
Today's topics:
Re: Data Structures in PERL <ewijaya@singnet.com.sg.removethis>
Re: output becomes unicode <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>
Re: Reading Unicode File and Saving Contents to Access <qjason@starhub.net.sg>
Sorting "string" numerical keys from a hash. <ewijaya@singnet.com.sg.removethis>
Re: Sorting "string" numerical keys from a hash. <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Sorting "string" numerical keys from a hash. <sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Update multiple lines in a flat file from array <bill@hotmail.com>
Re: Update multiple lines in a flat file from array <mritty@gmail.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <ljelmore_@_comcast_._net>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <ljelmore_@_comcast_._net>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <roo@try-removing-this.darkboong.demon.co.uk>
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism (Stan Barr)
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism jmfbahciv@aol.com
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism jmfbahciv@aol.com
Re: Xah Lee's Unixism <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 14:04:08 +0800
From: "Edward Wijaya" <ewijaya@singnet.com.sg.removethis>
Subject: Re: Data Structures in PERL
Message-Id: <opsdua46y1avcff0@news.singnet.com.sg>
On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 04:28:05 -0700, Roman Rodriguez <romanr@cablespeed.com>
wrote:
perldoc -q linked list
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 11:09:57 -0000
From: Thomas Dickey <dickey@saltmine.radix.net>
Subject: Re: output becomes unicode
Message-Id: <10jj8k5is2udi2f@corp.supernews.com>
Joe Smith <Joe.Smith@inwap.com> wrote:
> Leif Wessman wrote:
>> I've tried that. It's not the display devise...
> Are you sure about that? I've found that an xterm window often
> gives different results than gnome-terminal or the KDE terminal.
admittedly the manpage is long, but it does tell how to setup xterm for UTF-8.
for simplicity though, the uxterm script does (one flavor of) this:
> Does your program act any different if you add this line at the top:
> $ENV{LANG} = $1 if $ENV{LANG} =~ /(.*)\.UTF-8/;
xterm supports ANSI color, VT220 emulation and UTF-8
There's an faq at
http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.faq.html
ftp://invisible-island.net/xterm/
--
Thomas E. Dickey
http://invisible-island.net
ftp://invisible-island.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 13:07:06 +0800
From: Jason Quek <qjason@starhub.net.sg>
Subject: Re: Reading Unicode File and Saving Contents to Access
Message-Id: <nqiij0l8j4nn596ktlgqc9uij19j7bp9t0@4ax.com>
Hi Ben,
Thanks for your reply. I have tried the encode method but the
characters seem even further off now:
[
ó B
|
o
rather than the actual
acsólzeo (these characters have accents)
The 'closest' I think I have come is using:
use Unicode::String qw(utf16);
$name = Unicode::String::utf16( $name );
which gives me this
ćśdzBżęů
Some of the characters appear ok in the browser, although it still
isn't entirely right.
Regards,
Jason Q.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
>Quoth qjason@starhub.net.sg:
>> Hi
>>
>> I have a Unicode (utf8) file containing Unicode characters. I need to
>> open this file, read each line, then save it to an Access database
>> table via SQL.
>>
>> This is my script:
>>
>> #--------------------------------------------------
>> $file = 'unicode.txt';
>> open (FILE, "$file") || print "cannot open $file: $!";
>> while (<FILE>)
>> {
>> $name = $_;
>>
>> $sql = "INSERT INTO `sql_table` VALUES ('$name')";
>> &execute_sql;
>> }
>
>Use DBI instead. My guess would be that the ODBC driver (or whatever)
>can cope with these issues. If that doesn't work...
>
>> #--------------------------------------------------
>>
>> However, what gets inserted into the Access table does not match the
>> original characters.
>>
>> What am I doing wrong, and what is the correct way to read the Unicode
>> file and save the contents?
>>
>> I have looked at the "Unicode::String" module, but am not sure how to
>> use it in my case.
>
>At a guess, M$ use utf16 instead of utf8. You want perl5.8 and the
>Encode module; then you can say
>
>my $name = encode 'UTF-16', $_;
>my $sql = "INSERT INTO 'sql_table' VALUES ('$name')";
>
>instead. You may have problems with endianness/BOMs; these may or may
>not be soluble with one of
>
>my $name = encode 'UTF-16LE', $_;
>my $sql = "INSERT INTO 'sql_table' VALUES ('$name')";
>
>my $sql = "INSERT INTO 'sql_table' VALUES ('$_')";
>$sql = encode 'UTF-16', $_;
>
>Ben
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:47:42 +0800
From: "Edward Wijaya" <ewijaya@singnet.com.sg.removethis>
Subject: Sorting "string" numerical keys from a hash.
Message-Id: <opsduadsbdavcff0@news.singnet.com.sg>
Hi,
I have a hash like this
$VAR1 = {
'4' => 'ATTCAGAAACCTTctcCAGG',
'1' => 'CTCCcgcCGCGGTACAAAGG',
'3' => 'AAGGGTATGATGTCccgAAC',
'2' => 'ATtccCTCAGACTTCTGAGC',
'5' => 'ACTCGctcATCGCACATTTC'
};
I tried to do the sorting by the keys
using this:
foreach my $key ( sort keys %seqs_hash )
{
#print ....
}
or with {$seqs_hash{$a} <=> $seqs_hash{$b}}
But these two attempt don't seem to work.
It treated the keys as a string instead
of numeric. I thought Perl always treated number
"as" number.
How can I overcome this problem?
Hope to hear from you again.
Thanks so much for your time.
Regards,
Edward WIJAYA
SINGAPORE
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:13:09 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Sorting "string" numerical keys from a hash.
Message-Id: <2ptjorFpf3v0U1@uni-berlin.de>
Edward Wijaya wrote:
> I have a hash like this
>
> $VAR1 = {
> '4' => 'ATTCAGAAACCTTctcCAGG',
> '1' => 'CTCCcgcCGCGGTACAAAGG',
> '3' => 'AAGGGTATGATGTCccgAAC',
> '2' => 'ATtccCTCAGACTTCTGAGC',
> '5' => 'ACTCGctcATCGCACATTTC'
> };
>
>
> I tried to do the sorting by the keys
> using this:
>
> foreach my $key ( sort keys %seqs_hash )
> {
> #print ....
> }
That sorts lexically by key.
> or with {$seqs_hash{$a} <=> $seqs_hash{$b}}
That sorts numerically, but by value.
> But these two attempt don't seem to work.
> It treated the keys as a string instead
> of numeric. I thought Perl always treated number
> "as" number.
>
> How can I overcome this problem?
By reading the docs for the sort function:
perldoc -f sort
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 2004 11:45:05 GMT
From: Sam Holden <sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Sorting "string" numerical keys from a hash.
Message-Id: <slrncjjam1.6pf.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 13:47:42 +0800,
Edward Wijaya <ewijaya@singnet.com.sg.removethis> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have a hash like this
>
> $VAR1 = {
> '4' => 'ATTCAGAAACCTTctcCAGG',
> '1' => 'CTCCcgcCGCGGTACAAAGG',
> '3' => 'AAGGGTATGATGTCccgAAC',
> '2' => 'ATtccCTCAGACTTCTGAGC',
> '5' => 'ACTCGctcATCGCACATTTC'
> };
>
>
> I tried to do the sorting by the keys
> using this:
>
> foreach my $key ( sort keys %seqs_hash )
> {
> #print ....
> }
That will sort the keys alphabetically.
>
> or with {$seqs_hash{$a} <=> $seqs_hash{$b}}
That will sort based upon the values, numerically.
Since the keys are numbers, and the values are strings, both
of those attempts are doomed to failure.
>
> But these two attempt don't seem to work.
> It treated the keys as a string instead
> of numeric. I thought Perl always treated number
> "as" number.
Nope. Perl treats things as numbers if they are used as numbers,
and strings if they are used as strings.
>
> How can I overcome this problem?
Merge the two attempts above to sort the keys numerically.
--
Sam Holden
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 11:55:36 GMT
From: "blnukem" <bill@hotmail.com>
Subject: Update multiple lines in a flat file from array
Message-Id: <Y2i_c.5572$lv3.3194761@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
Hi All
I looking for a simple way to update multiple lines in a flat file from
incoming array with multiple values the file structure goes like this:
Part-number | Name | Quantity
The file looks like this:
123456|headlamp|6
123457|camshaft|3
123458|tire|8
123459|wipperblades|10
The updated incoming values look like this
Part-number | NEW Quantity
123457 4
123459 8
So what I need it to do is update the flat file so it will look like this:
123456|headlamp|6
123457|camshaft|4
123458|tire|8
123459|wipperblades|8
I cant seem to make it work without getting multiple duplicate entry's
Thanks in advance
Blnukem
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 07:59:20 -0400
From: Paul Lalli <mritty@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Update multiple lines in a flat file from array
Message-Id: <chcanf$mjt$1@misc-cct.server.rpi.edu>
blnukem wrote:
> I looking for a simple way to update multiple lines in a flat file from
> incoming array with multiple values the file structure goes like this:
> Part-number | Name | Quantity
>
> The file looks like this:
>
> 123456|headlamp|6
> 123457|camshaft|3
> 123458|tire|8
> 123459|wipperblades|10
>
> The updated incoming values look like this
> Part-number | NEW Quantity
>
> 123457 4
> 123459 8
You said the new values are from "incoming array". The above doesn't
look anything like a Perl array. Whenever possible, speak Perl, not
English. Show us exactly from where and how your data is arriving.
> So what I need it to do is update the flat file so it will look like this:
>
> 123456|headlamp|6
> 123457|camshaft|4
> 123458|tire|8
> 123459|wipperblades|8
>
> I cant seem to make it work without getting multiple duplicate entry's
What exactly have you tried? Post your attempt, and we can help you see
where you went wrong.
Paul Lalli
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:40:26 +0100 (BST)
From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <20040904.0140.57670snz@dsl.co.uk>
On Thursday, in article
<slrncjf52a.oa.amajorel@vulcain.knox.com> amajorel@teezer.fr
"Andre Majorel" wrote:
> Are you arguing that the stability comes from the API, not from
> the implementation ? If so, why has NT become more stable over
> the years, since its API has not changed ?
I'd like to imagine that it's because there are fewer fuckwits using it;
BICBW....
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi-
national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet
software and decent hardware support."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:47:16 +0100 (BST)
From: bhk@dsl.co.uk (Brian {Hamilton Kelly})
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <20040904.0147.57671snz@dsl.co.uk>
On Friday, in article
<41386155$0$19713$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> jmfbahciv@aol.com
wrote:
[Horses' arses and 4'8.5" gauge for railways and previously carts]
> There was a city getting restored in Turkey that JMF and I visited;
> I cannot remember its name other than it's in the New Testament
> written by Paul. It was one of most fascinating places I'd ever
> been other than aquariums and zoos. There are ruts in the
> stone-block pavements caused by running carts to/from harbor/city.
> We were told that these ruts were worn down by usage. I always
> wanted to get a big stone and spend 5 min/day rubbing it to see
> if the claim was true.
I one visits Paleaopaphos, the ancient capital of [the west of] Cyprus,
one can see such runnels in the stones. Moreover, the gate into the city
has two 90-deg bends in it, to prevent a frontal assault (certain
American Consulates could have learnt from that) and there are "turning
stones" on the corners of this entrance.
Such stones ensure that a wagon gets tilted up to one side if the wheel's
tyre is too close to the walls, thereby ensuring that the wheel's hub
does not strike and erode the stonework of the walls.
This ancient city wall is totally unremarked, in a field about 2km from
the modern-day village of Kouklia, which has evolved around the ancient
Sanctuary of Aphrodite. There one can still see the remnants of the
siege-mound erected by Darius (or was it Xerxes?) in ca.452 BC. One can
also see the tunnels ("mines") dug by the defenders of Paphos underneath
that siege-mound, and the caverns created when the wood that had been
placed beneath was burnt, leading to the collapse of the mound and
(eventually) the defeat of the Persians.
Even some two-and-a-half-centuries later, one can still see that the
earth was burnt by that firing, which amazes me.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk@dsl.co.uk
"I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi-
national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet
software and decent hardware support."
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:08:22 GMT
From: Larry Elmore <ljelmore_@_comcast_._net>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <qs9_c.235307$8_6.157753@attbi_s04>
Rupert Pigott wrote:
> Larry Elmore wrote:
>
> [SNIP]
>
>> The gaskets wouldn't have been necessary if the SRBs had been built in
>> a single piece instead of having to be assembled from seven sections.
>> The problem was that one-piece SRBs are too big for land transport,
>> and for political reasons (i.e., buying support), the SRBs were to be
>> built in Utah by Morton-Thiokol. Ergo, multi-section SRBs with gaskets
>> "required".
Erk, _four_ sections, not seven. Not sure where that came from. :(
> I would hope that Morton Thiokol's experience at building a diverse
> range of rockets might have been a factor in the decision too. I
> suppose they might have systematically fired every rocket scientist
> they had (wouldn't put it past a PHB) to save cost though. :)
http://www.ae.utexas.edu/~lehmanj/ethics/srb.htm
"Competition for the SRB Contract"
"Four companies bid for the contract to design and manufacture the solid
rocket boosters (SRBs). Aerojet Solid bid the program at $655 million,
United Technologies at $710 million, Morton Thiokol at $710 million, and
Lockheed at $714 million. All the bids were relatively similar in both
price and technology. Based on cost, the NASA advisory panel recommended
that the contract be awarded to Aerojet; they believed that money could
be saved without sacrificing technical quality by choosing the lowest
bid. NASA administrator Dr. James Fletcher overruled this recommendation
and awarded the contract to Morton Thiokol in Brigham City, Utah.
Aerojet appealed the decision and after many allegations and
counter-allegations, the GAO (General Accounting Office) was instructed
by Congress to investigate the matter. The GAO found that the contract
award procedure was not improper. NASA regulations clearly stated that
the decision was to be made by the chief administrator, not the advisory
panel. However, the GAO could find no reason for selecting Morton
Thiokol over Aerojet and recommended that NASA reconsider the decision [1]."
"Political Compromises in the Contract"
"The nature of the political connections between the Space Program and
prominent figures of the state of Utah has long been debated. Utah
Senators Jake Garn and Frank Moss have been active supporters of the
Space Program, particularly when it benefits Utah-based industries.
There is nothing wrong with this; Representatives of Congress are
expected to be interested in furthering the activities of their
constituents. The real cloud of suspicion hung over former Morton
Thiokol employees who worked for NASA at the time of the contract award,
and the head of NASA itself, Dr. James Fletcher [4]."
"Dr. Fletcher served as the President of the University of Utah from
1964 through 1971. His connections with the state and its industries
were numerous and far reaching, but he denied that these connections had
any influence on his decision to award the SRB contract to Morton
Thiokol. However, many people who observed the contract award process
remained unconvinced. Fletcher's inability to provide solid reasons for
the selection of Morton Thiokol over Aerojet did nothing to ease the
controversy surrounding the decision; his reasons were vague and
referred to minor points in the advisory committee's study. NASA's
refusal to discuss whether former Morton Thiokol employees had been part
of the advisory committee simply fueled speculation of wrong-doing.
Whether Morton Thiokol used political influence to secure the SRB
contract has never been determined, but lack of clear answers caused
many to conclude that the contract may have been awarded improperly[1]."
> Too many ifs & butts. IMO. Folks caved to political pressure, but
> the blame doesn't just lie with the rank and file. The folks
> applying the pressure from the top would have known full well what
> they were doing. If they didn't they were unfit for the task, if
> not negligent anyways.
Oh, it appears to me the problem was almost entirely with the PHBs both
at NASA and at Morton-Thiokol. Engineers at Morton-Thiokol knew there
was a problem long before the accident, as did people at NASA.
--Larry
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 02:32:49 GMT
From: Larry Elmore <ljelmore_@_comcast_._net>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <lP9_c.123404$mD.5253@attbi_s02>
Gary Schenk wrote:
> In comp.lang.perl.misc Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 22:58:35 GMT, gwschenk@fuzz.socal.rr.com (Gary
>>Schenk) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In comp.lang.perl.misc Alan Balmer <albalmer@att.net> wrote:
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>I'm not a fan of Mr Hatch, but blaming him for the shuttle disaster(s)
>>>>is somewhat over the top. Why not blame President Bush? That's the
>>>>popular thing nowadays.
>>>>
>>>
>>>IIRC, the vice-president is in charge of the space program, so shouldn't
>>>President Bush accept some blame?
>>
>>The Vice President isn't "in charge" of the space program, except for
>>Al Gore, who probably invented it.
>>
>
>
> Don't you dittoheads ever get your facts right?
>
> http://www.jfklibrary.org/images/jfk-lbj01.jpg
>
> http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/jb/modern/launch_1
>
> http://www.thespacereview.com/article/163/1
>
>
>>The shuttles were designed and built some considerable time before
>>Bush became President.
>>
>
>
> True, although the first shuttle flight was in 1981, while Bush was vice-
> president.
>
> As the above references show, Bush was not head of the space council
> as Reagan was not a fan. Bush was busy selling anthrax and missiles
> to Iran and Iraq.
>
>
>>Good try, though, the DNC would be proud.
>>
>
>
> I doubt it.
Well, I would hope not. You're even contradicting yourself in the same
post, while at the same time admitting that your references don't
support you. Must've skipped those classes in logic, huh?
--Larry
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 06:02:03 GMT
From: CBFalconer <cbfalconer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <4139561C.F52D4E4@yahoo.com>
Alan Balmer wrote:
>
... snip ...
>
> I'm not a fan of Mr Hatch, but blaming him for the shuttle
> disaster(s) is somewhat over the top. Why not blame President
> Bush? That's the popular thing nowadays.
Alright, if you insist. But is it really necessary? We can find
adequate charges without reaching very hard.
--
Chuck F (cbfalconer@yahoo.com) (cbfalconer@worldnet.att.net)
Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
<http://cbfalconer.home.att.net> USE worldnet address!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:14:54 +0100
From: Rupert Pigott <roo@try-removing-this.darkboong.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <1094285694.404322@teapot.planet.gong>
Larry Elmore wrote:
> Rupert Pigott wrote:
[SNIP]
> http://www.ae.utexas.edu/~lehmanj/ethics/srb.htm
>
> "Competition for the SRB Contract"
>
> "Four companies bid for the contract to design and manufacture the solid
> rocket boosters (SRBs). Aerojet Solid bid the program at $655 million,
> United Technologies at $710 million, Morton Thiokol at $710 million, and
> Lockheed at $714 million. All the bids were relatively similar in both
> price and technology. Based on cost, the NASA advisory panel recommended
> that the contract be awarded to Aerojet; they believed that money could
> be saved without sacrificing technical quality by choosing the lowest
> bid. NASA administrator Dr. James Fletcher overruled this recommendation
[SNIP]
Even if hypothetically superior Aerojet boosters were used I would
bet a life's salary that mismanagement would nail them in the end...
Consider this : If the tables were turned and an Aerojet booster
exploded in the sky I'll bet the armchair QBs would be asking why
were Aerojet chosen over Morton-Thiokol who had more experience of
building large solid-fuel rockets.
Cheers,
Rupert
------------------------------
Date: 04 Sep 2004 08:23:17 GMT
From: stanb45@dial.pipex.com (Stan Barr)
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <slrncjiukd.9mi.stanb45@citadel.metropolis.local>
On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:04:05 GMT, Larry Elmore <ljelmore_@_comcast_._net> wrote:
>No, but some Liberty ships built in WWII, welded together from pre-fab
>sections, literally broke in half when the welds failed (IIRC, in very
>cold water like the Barents sea).
Yep, the welding changed the structure of the steel and an unfortunately
placed hatch coaming created a high stress point. The cold made the
weld brittle and it cracked.
>The problem was fixed by welding large
>reinforcing "patches" on either side of the weak point in the hull.
That was a temporary solution, they later designed a re-inforced hatch
setup IIRC.
The ship was basically an 1880s British design not originally intended
to be welded up out of pre-fabricated bits :-)
--
Cheers,
Stan Barr stanb .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com
(Remove any digits from the addresses when mailing me.)
The future was never like this!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 04 10:39:48 GMT
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <4139ae57$0$19717$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
In article <u3c1yrka7.fsf@mail.comcast.net>,
Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
>> if you choose your road routes carefully enuf ... you can miss a lot
>> of the problems that you would run into moving by train. we had one
>> route where i was on the peak of the house and had to grab wires over
>> the side .... lift the wires up to clear the peak and walk the wires
>> back as the house moved under.
>
>oh ... and people have died doing that ...
That was my next question :-). How did you manage?
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Sep 04 10:50:40 GMT
From: jmfbahciv@aol.com
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <4139b0e3$0$19717$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>
In article <87d613mckn.fsf@k9.prep.synonet.com>,
Paul Repacholi <prep@prep.synonet.com> wrote:
>jmfbahciv@aol.com writes:
>
>> In article <ApudnfQdCY-dfavcRVn-pQ@speakeasy.net>,
>> rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>>><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote:
>>>+---------------
>>>| rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>>>| >| Consider the "PIP" command.
>>>| >+---------------
>>>| >
>>>| >Indeed. And COPY & DEL & DIR, etc.
>>>|
>>>| Well, not quite :-). COPY and DELETE called PIP via a CCL
>>>| command. DIRECT became its own program. To do a directory
>>>| using PIP required a switch and wasn't a monitor level command.
>>>+---------------
>
>>>Yes, I knew that. What I was trying to convey is that the *names*
>>>of those DOS commands had also been copied from the DEC lineages.
>>>That is, COPY/DEL/DIR rather than cp/rm/ls.
>
>They are not DOS commands, thay are CPM commands that just happened
>to report for duty in redmondia.
>
>> IIRC, those verbs didn't show up until after 4S72 of TOPS-10 (it
>> wasn't TOPS-10 back then either). I would also suspect that the PIP
>> didn't originate at DEC either. A lot of those guys did work at MIT
>> before they coalasced into a startup company.
>
>All of them where in the 4.x monitir I used. many of the 427 source file
>are on Tim's site, so you can have a look in COMTAB and see.
huh..The why did I have to do TTY:_DT0:/L or LPT:_DT0:/L
to get directories? And to print a file on the line printer
required the PIP command LPT:_DSK:FOO.FOR
Sigh! Substitute those underscores with backarrows.
The point is still that these commands were "created" not
by one OS but by the conglomerate of future bit gods who
were yakking at each other and moving from one OS project
to another OS' project. Back then there were only a handful
of people who were doing this work.
Are we suffering from the demise of the thingies we used to
call DECUS when the workers got together instead of the PHBs
and marketeers?
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 13:28:11 +0100
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Xah Lee's Unixism
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0409041324060.8348@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk>
On Sat, 4 Sep 2004 jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
> Are we suffering from the demise of the thingies we used to
> call DECUS when the workers got together instead of the PHBs
> and marketeers?
We certainly are. Self-help meetings of techies have always been
a step-child as far as manglement are concerned. I could list a few
that I've been involved in over the years, that have been chipped away
bit by bit by cost-paring management until they finally lost critical
mass.
But we have the 'net, so it's not all bad.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6959
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