[24265] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6456 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Apr 23 21:05:42 2004
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:05:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 23 Apr 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6456
Today's topics:
Re: Ben and Tassilo: about calling subs with & <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: Ben and Tassilo: about calling subs with & <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: does any other language even have this feature? <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: does any other language even have this feature? <xxala_qumsiehxx@xxyahooxx.com>
Re: need a good module. <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Object method and file handle creates "bareword" er <lawshouse.public@btconnect.com>
Re: Object method and file handle creates "bareword" er <uri.guttman@fmr.com>
Re: Operator overloading <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au>
Re: Proper way to use an imported constant under 'use s <xxala_qumsiehxx@xxyahooxx.com>
Re: Regex: How to ignore pairs of quotes? (beginner le <tadmc@augustmail.com>
regexp quick reference card <olusola.o.olaode@intel.com>
Re: regexp quick reference card <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: slurp not working? ideas please! <geoffacox@dontspamblueyonder.co.uk>
Re: substitution from command line <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Re: Text-oriented network protocols <perlcdr@mail.rumania>
Re: Text-oriented network protocols (Walter Roberson)
Re: Text-oriented network protocols <ppagee@yahoo.com>
Re: What kind of RegEx should I use for <TEXTAREA>? <gnari@simnet.is>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:30:57 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ben and Tassilo: about calling subs with &
Message-Id: <slrnc8j2oh.67o.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Chris Richmond - MD6-FDC ~ <crichmon@filc8604.fm.intel.com> wrote:
> In article <pan.2004.04.23.15.56.48.128604@aursand.no>,
> Tore Aursand <tore@aursand.no> writes:
>>On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 08:44:15 -0700, Rex Gustavus Adolphus wrote:
>
> From:
>> perldoc perlsub
>
> Please correct this summarization if needed:
>
> You shouldn't use '&' when calling new-style subroutines that have been
> declared with prototypes because it disables arg checking.
> Otherwise, its still optional when calling with parens, required
> without, unless the subroutine is predeclared.
Corrections are not needed there.
What did you think needed changing?
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:23:01 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ben and Tassilo: about calling subs with &
Message-Id: <slrnc8j9ak.67o.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Rex Gustavus Adolphus <uffesterner@spamhole.com> wrote:
> A couple of months ago I participated in a thread "What with this open
> file..."
>
> I published parts of my code in it and that lead into a discussion
> about not calling subs with & (started by Ben Morrow):
> "Don't call subs with & unless you need to (here you don't)."
>
> Well I just looked into one of the books I used to learn Perl (aptly
> named "Learning Perl"(!))
I am familiar with that book. :-)
> Accidently the chapter about subroutines is published on the web,
> see http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/lperl3/chapter/ch04.html
>
> Quoting from the beginning of Chapter 4 Subroutines:
> "The name of a subroutine is another Perl identifier (letters, digits,
> and underscores, but can't start with a digit) with a
> sometimes-optional ampersand (&) in front. There's a rule about when
> you can omit the ampersand and when you cannot; we'll see that rule by
> the end of the chapter. For now, we'll just use it every time that
> it's not forbidden, which is always a safe rule"
>
> And another quote from the end of the same chapter:
> "So, the real rule to use is this one: until you know the names of all
> of Perl's builtin functions, always use the ampersand on function
> calls."
I have to teach it that way because Randal wrote it that way,
and he's the boss. :-)
But after teaching it that way, I point out that I _never_ use
ampersands on function calls (since he isn't there to stop me).
I tell them: always use parens, never use ampersands, and if you
get strange behavior from your user-defined function, try
perldoc -f myfunc
and see if you chose a name that is already being used.
I like my way, because then they don't have to detect the
"inflection point" between beginner and not-beginner and
change the way they've been doing things.
> So now, Ben and Tassilo, you maybe understand way programmers new to
^^^
> Perl uses & in subroutine calls?
Right, and Ben and Tassilo are helping them to move away from the "new" part.
Beginners aren't likely to be using prototypes, so it doesn't make
any difference.
But we expect that they will progress beyond "beginner" at some point,
which is when ampersands can bite them.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:36:43 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: does any other language even have this feature?
Message-Id: <slrnc8ja4b.67o.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
valued customer <scooterm@hotmail.com> wrote:
> One of the very useful features of perl is the quotelike
> operator,
It's more usual name is "here document".
> Is there any other programming environment that has this
> feature? Can anyone name even one??
Most (all?) of the *nix shells.
> Why doesn't every programming environment have a similar
> feature? Adding 'escape sequences' to strings is
> error-prone, less readable, and annoying!
Because non-Perl languages suck. (heh)
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:30:37 GMT
From: Ala Qumsieh <xxala_qumsiehxx@xxyahooxx.com>
Subject: Re: does any other language even have this feature?
Message-Id: <Nyiic.40344$_l3.8780@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Sherm Pendley wrote:
> valued customer wrote:
>
>
>>Is there any other programming environment that has this
>>feature? Can anyone name even one??
>
>
> Perl borrowed the "here document" idea from UNIX shells like Bash, CSH, etc.
> I think it would be a bit of a stretch to refer to that as a "programming
> environment," though. ;-)
I don't think the OP was talking about heredocs. He mentioned
"quote-like operators" which, to me at least, refers to q// and qq//
which are different from heredocs. His remark seems to refer to the fact
that Perl gives you the option to use your favourite delimiter which is
very useful. I don't know of any other languages that offers this.
That's not to say heredocs aren't useful. They are very useful, but
different from q// and qq//.
--Ala
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:34:29 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: need a good module.
Message-Id: <x73c6uiaru.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "MD" == Michele Dondi <bik.mido@tiscalinet.it> writes:
MD> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 03:03:07 GMT, Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
MD> wrote:
>> i use Delete::Robin all the time. i highly recommend it.
>>
>> why do these dumb self-taught coders never realize how little we care
>> about their opinions or code? is it some self-delusion that they
MD> Dear URI,
MD> I, for one, slightly *disagree* with you: while I find too that
MD> most threads started by Robin are a real PITA, I don't see why *a
MD> priori* self-taught coders' opinons/code should not be cared. Of
MD> course it would be better if they accepted more intelligently the
MD> suggestions they receive, but then again I, for one, am a
MD> self-taught coder happily perling mostly everyday on a
MD> non-professional basis *and* AFAICT you've never complained with
MD> me like this, yet, my very first posts here were not much better
MD> than Robin's. (I suppose!)
the problem is that too many self taught coders don't understand the
real issues involved (security, accuracy, effciency, etc) and just hack
it to get what looks like some working results. i am not saying all
self-taught coders are like this (randal schwartz surely is not) but
without some training or peer review or a true educational curiosity and
an open mind that is willing to learn, you get moronzilla or robin
types. they think because something is working on the surface (and it is
almost always web stuff today) then it must be ok. none of the real dark
problems are understood nor addressed and of course when you bring them
up, you get shot down as some elitest. working in the computer field
requires a certain level of critical and structured thinking and that is
not something everyone has. but you can get by with a little and code up
a web page and claim you can do it and get a job. it is annoying to us
(or me at least) that jobs are harder to find for that reason. now i am
not for certifications but i wish there was a way to differentiate those
who understand and know how to handle all aspects of coding and those
who just code web stuff.
MD> $uri->kindness->increase_by(10);
MD> $uri->elitarism->increase_by(-10);
and i don't think i was being elistist at all. i was just expressing my
opinion that i am tired of robin who won't listen properly. so many
things are still unaddressed by his code. basic fundamentals are lacking
and just because it shows a functional web page it means to him that it
is ok. sure for his use but don't pawn it off as something anyone else
would want if they knew what it was. but then look at what happened to
matt wright's scripts. thousands of kiddies used them and called
themselves programmers. blecch.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 23:18:13 +0100
From: Henry Law <lawshouse.public@btconnect.com>
Subject: Re: Object method and file handle creates "bareword" error. How to code?
Message-Id: <805j80dilp2ni8lmnfpt8u38u4e1iegs8o@4ax.com>
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:45:30 -0400, Paul Lalli <ittyspam@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Completely untested, the first thing I'd try is using a lexical
>filehandle, rather than the bareword:
>
>my $fh;
>open ($fh, 'F:\p\xmlout.xml');
>unless ($fd->print($fh)){
> pritn "Failed to write modified XML file: $!\n";
>}
>close $fh;
... and Glenn Jackman made the same suggestion, but also wondered
>perhaps the filehandle is optional but the options are mandatory.
>In that case add an empty hash to the end:
>
> $fd->print($xmlout, ());
Well, those suggestions gave me several other things to try (starting
with putting in my missing ">" character, the lack of which won't have
helped any..) but I'm back to report that I still have no success.
This code...
my $xmlout;
open $xmlout, '>F:\p\xmlout.xml';
unless ($fdtwig->print($xmlout)) {
print "Failed to write modified XML file:$!\n";
}
... runs but the program itself dies with "Failed to write modified
XML file:Bad file descriptor". It's the same with an empty hash for
the print options, viz
unless ($fdtwig->print($xmlout, () )) { # etc ...
I also blundered around with *$xmlout and \*$xmlout with the same
failure message. So with your help I've at least cured the syntax
error and obtained a consistent error message. Is that progress?
If you're not all bored with this already I'm hoping for more
suggestions.
Henry Law <>< Manchester, England
------------------------------
Date: 23 Apr 2004 15:08:47 -0400
From: Uri Guttman <uri.guttman@fmr.com>
Subject: Re: Object method and file handle creates "bareword" error. How to code?
Message-Id: <siscoepi1phc.fsf@tripoli.fmr.com>
>>>>> "GJ" == Glenn Jackman <xx087@freenet.carleton.ca> writes:
GJ> The XML::Twig docs show:
GJ> print ($optional_filehandle, %options)
GJ> Prints the whole document associated with the twig. To
GJ> be used only AFTER the parse.
GJ> Oh, perhaps the filehandle is optional but the options are mandatory.
GJ> In that case add an empty hash to the end:
GJ> $fd->print($xmlout, ());
that is no different from $fd->print($xmlout). the called method
couldn't tell the diff from those two calls.
and they are called 'options' so they are optional :)
uri
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 10:41:44 +1000
From: Sisyphus <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Operator overloading
Message-Id: <4089b8f4$0$16575$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
>>If I want to return the "first argument with or without prior
>>modification" then the overload routine needs to increase the first
>>arg's reference count - otherwise 'DESTROY($obj)' gets called.
>
>
> This looks logical. Perl does not know whether you return a new
> object, or an old one. If you return a new one, you preserve the
> refcount of the old one, and create the new object with refcount 1.
> When the new object is not needed (it is just a temporary needed until
> the result is assigned somewhere), Perl will decrement its refcount.
>
> So the total refcount is "the_old_refcount + 1". Does REFCOUNT_inc()
> in the case when the old object is reused become logical now?
>
Yes :-)
Thanks Ilya.
Cheers,
Rob
--
To reply by email u have to take out the u in kalinaubears.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:36:58 GMT
From: Ala Qumsieh <xxala_qumsiehxx@xxyahooxx.com>
Subject: Re: Proper way to use an imported constant under 'use strict'?
Message-Id: <KEiic.40345$_l3.6874@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>
Lukas Mai wrote:
> H. Wade Minter schrob:
> [...]
>
>
>>Then, later in the code, I use an imported constant like:
>
>
>> if ( "$^O" eq "MSWin32" )
>> {
>
>
>> # Start the MP3 player on a Windows system
>> my $object;
>> Win32::Process::Create( $object, $config{'mp3player'}, '', 1,
>> NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS, "." );
>> $mp3_pid = $object->GetProcessID();
>> sleep(1);
>> }
>
>
>>However, when strict subs are enabled, I get an error about barewords:
>
> [...]
>
>>My question is - what's the proper way to use this constant when strictures
>>are enabled?
>
>
> Constants are really just inlined subroutines, so writing
> NORMAL_PRIORITY_CLASS() should work.
I would disable strict within the body of the if() statement:
if ($^O eq 'MSWin32') {
no strict 'subs';
....
}
--Ala
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 16:27:25 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: Regex: How to ignore pairs of quotes? (beginner level question)
Message-Id: <slrnc8j2ht.67o.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Tobias Weihmann <listen@fomalhaut.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to parse VB strings here but I didn't succeed in getting
> the regex to ignore pairs of double quotes (which are the equivalent to
> \" in Perl)
>
> Example:
>
> print "This is a test ""Test"" yeah" + Str$(4)+ "good"
> --> This is a test ""Test"" yeah
> --> good
>
> print """We""are""testing"""+"What they can do" '
> --> ""We""are""testing""
> --> What they can do
>
> I finished off writing a FSM, but this is quite clumsy compared to a
> regex. The best thing I had was like /"(.*?)"[^"]/, but this would get me
> --> This is a test "
> for the first example... ( the "T satisfies the end condition, even though
> the two quotes should be ignored altogether)
>
> I also considered /"(.*?[^"])"[^"]/, but this will break in the second
> example - because it is's of course possible to have two quotes (to be
> ignored) right before a quote finishing of the string. I also experi-
> mented with non-moving sequences (?!"") but to no avail...
>
> How would you do it?
print "$1\n" while /"(([^"]|"")*)"/g;
or, if you want to be able to read what you've written:
print "$1\n" while /"(
( [^"] | "" )*
)"
/gx;
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:10:16 -0400
From: "fenisol3" <olusola.o.olaode@intel.com>
Subject: regexp quick reference card
Message-Id: <c6c489$huk$1@news01.intel.com>
Hello all,
Does anyone know where I can find like a cheatsheet or quick reference card
for Perl regular expressions online? Thanks.
-fenisol3
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 00:36:40 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: regexp quick reference card
Message-Id: <c6c680$amrma$2@ID-184292.news.uni-berlin.de>
fenisol3 wrote:
> Does anyone know where I can find like a cheatsheet or quick
> reference card for Perl regular expressions online?
http://www.perldoc.com/perl5.8.0/pod/perlrequick.html
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:35:26 GMT
From: Geoff Cox <geoffacox@dontspamblueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: slurp not working? ideas please!
Message-Id: <p26j80lf7466p42ahk4bvpuaatan8ur5ib@4ax.com>
On 23 Apr 2004 21:21:42 GMT, "Tassilo v. Parseval"
<tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>Hardly. Your script does not print anything option related. How should
>it? Please show me the part of your code which is supposed to produce
Tassilo,
From the following, in sub start
if ( $tagname eq 'option' ) {
main::choice( $attr->{ value } );
}
the flow goes to say, the
sub choice
elsif ( $path =~ /docs\/gcse\/student-activities\/finance/ ) {
intro($path);
gcsestudentactivitiesfinance($path);
}
then to
sub gcsestudentactivitiesfinance {
my ($pattern) = @_;
my $c = 0;
open( INNN, "d:/a-keep9/short-nondb/allphp/allphp2.php" );
while (<INNN>) {
last if /$pattern/;
}
my ( $curr, $next1, $next2, $next3 ) = <INNN>;
close(INNN);
if ( $next3 =~ /\$i\<(\d+);/ ) {
my $nn = $1;
print OUT ("<td valign='top'> \n");
for ( $c = 1 ; $c < $nn ; $c++ ) {
print OUT ( '<a href="' . $pattern
. "/finance-doc"
. $c . ".zip" . '">'
. "Document$c"
. "</a><br>"
. "\n" );
}
print OUT ("</td></tr>\n");
}
}
Which makes clear that I would have to let you have a sample part of
yet another file, allphp2.php !!
Not sure how I could give you anything smaller than the total set of
files in order to test for yourself .. ??
Cheers
Geoff
>
> <option ...>
>
>You'll notice that nothing of that kind exists.
>
>Other than that, you posted far too much code. I usually can't be
>bothered to create several directories and files just to realize that
>the posted script (which includes many functions that are never called
>for the sample data) expects a different directory layout and hence wont
>work without manual intervention.
>
>Tassilo
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 18:32:59 -0500
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>
Subject: Re: substitution from command line
Message-Id: <slrnc8j9tb.67o.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Geezer From The Freezer <Geezer@Freezer.com> wrote:
> trying to change a string in a file
>
> perl -e s/dogshit/catshit/g filename
^^^^ ^^^^
^^^^ ^^^^
That was uncalled for.
It earns you a killfile entry. So long.
> Seems to do nothing - what am I doing wrong?
s/// operates on the string in $_, you do not have any string in $_.
Maybe you want to add the -p switch?
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 22:09:47 GMT
From: perl coder <perlcdr@mail.rumania>
Subject: Re: Text-oriented network protocols
Message-Id: <Lugic.75888$Lh2.62626@bignews1.bellsouth.net>
Walter Roberson said:
> The current state of the art for really *long* term data storage
> is.... output the data at a human scale, using selected inks, printed
> on good quality paper.
I'd go with clay tablets. Don't need to worry about fires then. ;-)
Good points though. And I like text because it lets you send raw
commands directly with netcat, telnet or some other commonplace tool.
Although that does become more difficult if your protocol uses some
fancy authentication mechanism (frex, where you have to calculate some
response value in a timely manner based on received data and a shared
secret).
--
No crazy stuff in my email. ;-)
------------------------------
Date: 23 Apr 2004 23:02:08 GMT
From: roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson)
Subject: Re: Text-oriented network protocols
Message-Id: <c6c79g$blj$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
In article <Lugic.75888$Lh2.62626@bignews1.bellsouth.net>,
perl coder <perlcdr@mail.rumania> wrote:
:Walter Roberson said:
:> The current state of the art for really *long* term data storage
:> is.... output the data at a human scale, using selected inks, printed
:> on good quality paper.
:I'd go with clay tablets. Don't need to worry about fires then. ;-)
Hah, you still have to worry about fires with clay -- if you *don't*
put the clay in a fire, then the clay is going to melt the first time
it gets wet. ;-)
I've heard some arguments in favour of etched titanium, or chiselled
granite. I seem to recall, though, that granite doesn't last as well
as paper if you have freeze/thaw cycles. I do not recall the argument
against etched titanium... other than the cost, that is.
--
Everyone has a "Good Cause" for which they are prepared to spam.
-- Roberson's Law of the Internet
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2004 02:21:27 +0200
From: Mike Mimic <ppagee@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Text-oriented network protocols
Message-Id: <Yriic.1516$37.215693@news.siol.net>
Hi!
Walter Roberson wrote:
> What is correct binary on one machine might not be correct binary on
> another machine. Therefore, unless one is deliberately building an
> application with the intent to restrict its use to certain kinds of machines
> (and you don't intend to upgrade even within your own company!),
> then one runs into the possibility that binary data sent from one place
> will be misunderstood at the other. There are well-established protocols
> to alleviate this problem, such as use xdr transformations on both ends,
> but those add noticable ugliness to the code itself, and add noticable
> overhead to the size of the bytestream being transferred.
Thanks. Really. I think that I understand now.
I was tempted because it would be protocol for a game. And it would be
nicer if it will not be "cracked" so easily. But anyway. I think that
portability is more important for me.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:26:20 -0000
From: "gnari" <gnari@simnet.is>
Subject: Re: What kind of RegEx should I use for <TEXTAREA>?
Message-Id: <c6c1j1$2om$1@news.simnet.is>
"Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:TZidnYWdyIL1VBXdRVn-iQ@adelphia.com...
> W. D. wrote:
>
> > If a form has a <TEXTAREA> box to input all sorts of free-form
> > text, is it necessary to do a regular expressions validation?
> > That is, are there any dangerous characters that shouldn't be
> > allowed?
>
> For example, if you're going to store it in a database that only
understands
> ASCII text, then you'll need to scan the text for characters outside of
the
> ASCII range and encode them in some fashion. If the text will appear in a
> web page, you might want to look for tags that might interfere with the
> HTML in the destination page.
and if you are using SQL to insert it into a database, you must remember
to quote it properly, or use something that does it safely, like
DBI w/ placeholders.
gnari
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6456
***************************************
