[23867] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 6070 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Feb 3 06:05:39 2004
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 03:05:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 3 Feb 2004 Volume: 10 Number: 6070
Today's topics:
Re: Embedded Perl sprintf (symbol?) problem. <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au>
Re: Embedded Perl sprintf (symbol?) problem. <gnari@simnet.is>
Re: help installing Storable module <jwillmore@remove.adelphia.net>
Re: help installing Storable module <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
ithreads at runtime? (Walter Roberson)
Re: ithreads at runtime? <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Microsoft AD stan.holmes@eskom.co.za
Re: MIME::Base64.pm <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Re: MIME::Base64.pm <thepoet_nospam@arcor.de>
Re: network card <wherrera@lynxview.com>
Perl - LDAP - AD stan.holmes@eskom.co.za
Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Re: When to "use strict" when teaching? <HelgiBriem_1@hotmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 17:12:33 +1100
From: Sisyphus <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: Embedded Perl sprintf (symbol?) problem.
Message-Id: <401f3cc6$0$1746$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au>
R. Cheung wrote:
> I have a problem using sprintf in my embedded Perl interpreter. E.g.
>
> $decVal = 1234;
> $str = sprintf( "Result is %d, 0x%x", $decVal, $decVal );
>
> $str comes back containing rubbish like "Result is 17 0x11". It seems
> that sprintf can pick up the 1st parameter (the format string) but
> picks up completely wrong parameters subsequently. The interpreter
> seems to work fine when doing strictly Perl stuff (e.g. matching,
> substituting, etc.). I'm wondering if this is a symbol clash problem.
> I'm working in a Win2000 environment, embedding Perl in a Visual C++
> application. Could it be that it's picking up sprintf from the VC++
> library instead of Perl's own, or something like that? Does anyone
> have a solution to this problem? Thanks.
Can you post some simple code that demonstrates the problem (and will
also compile) ?
Cheers,
Rob
--
To reply by email u have to take out the u in kalinaubears.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:05:14 -0000
From: "gnari" <gnari@simnet.is>
Subject: Re: Embedded Perl sprintf (symbol?) problem.
Message-Id: <bvno6m$s2b$1@news.simnet.is>
"Sisyphus" <kalinaubears@iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:401f3cc6$0$1746$5a62ac22@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> R. Cheung wrote:
> > I have a problem using sprintf in my embedded Perl interpreter. E.g.
> >
> > $decVal = 1234;
> > $str = sprintf( "Result is %d, 0x%x", $decVal, $decVal );
> >
> > $str comes back containing rubbish like "Result is 17 0x11". It seems
> > ...
> Can you post some simple code that demonstrates the problem (and will
> also compile) ?
I think the point was that his code works under normal perl, but not with
embedded perl.
Still, the idea is valid. the OP should try to make a minimal program w/
embedded perl, and see if the problem persists.
gnari
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 00:26:21 -0500
From: James Willmore <jwillmore@remove.adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: help installing Storable module
Message-Id: <pan.2004.02.03.05.26.19.965818@remove.adelphia.net>
On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:39:36 -0500, Mike G. wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I would like to use the storable-2.08 module on Sun.
>
> I don't have access to overwrite our Perl system files. Which are at an old
> version, Perl 5.4.
>
> In the past I have installed Perl modules into my home directory under a dir
> called "lib" and accessed them through there.
>
> I can't seem to figure out how to do this with Storable.
>
> I get this error:
>
> Can't load '/usr2/users/mikeg/lib/auto/Storable/Storable.so' for module
> Storable: ld.so.1: /usr/bin/perl: fatal: relocation error: file
> /usr2/users/mikeg/lib/auto/Storable/Storable.so: symbol PL_sv_undef:
> referenced symbol not found at
> /usr/perl5.004/lib/sun4-solaris/5.00404/DynaLoader.pm line 166.
>
>
> Any idea's?
Short answer: ask your admin to upgrade Perl.
Longer answer: Storable is a core Perl module (perldoc perlmodlib).
Because it's a core Perl module, you can't treat it like any other module
you deal with. You can't install a private copy like you can with other
Perl modules.
Basically, you're SOL until you're version of Perl is upgraded.
HTH
--
Jim
Copyright notice: all code written by the author in this post is
released under the GPL. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
for more information.
a fortune quote ...
No animal should ever jump on the dining room furniture unless
<absolutely certain he can hold his own in conversation. --
<Fran Lebowitz
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:25:37 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: help installing Storable module
Message-Id: <bvnlu1$dcm$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
jwillmore@adelphia.net wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 16:39:36 -0500, Mike G. wrote:
> > Any idea's?
^
Grrrr
> Short answer: ask your admin to upgrade Perl.
>
> Longer answer: Storable is a core Perl module (perldoc perlmodlib).
> Because it's a core Perl module, you can't treat it like any other module
> you deal with. You can't install a private copy like you can with other
> Perl modules.
This isn't true. Storable wasn't core until 5.8, but it works
perfectly well under 5.6. It does require 5.6, though, so the OP does
need to upgrade.
OP: If you've enough space, you could install a newer version of perl
in a private directory.
Ben
--
Although few may originate a policy, we are all able to judge it.
- Pericles of Athens, c.430 B.C.
ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: 3 Feb 2004 08:19:25 GMT
From: roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson)
Subject: ithreads at runtime?
Message-Id: <bvnlid$rna$1@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>
I wonder if someone could give me some hints how to enable
ithread support conditionally at run-time ?
I have written a multi-threaded firewall log analysis program that
calls upon a series of utility modules that I've written. Shared
variables are involved (and Queues, but the Queues don't seem to be a
problem at the moment.) I described some of the effort and lessons in a
previous topic in this newsgroup.
As the program is slower than I'd prefer, I attempted to profile with
-d:DProf . That failed miserably on any module for which I had
use threads::shared complaining that,
panic: Devel::DProf inconsistent subroutine return at /usr/freeware/lib/perl5/5.8.2/irix-n32-thread-multi/threads/shared.pm line 17.
According to the Devel::DProf documentation, this is a known failure
mode for certain kinds of returns from routines (involving labels.)
I rejigged my modules to do require's instead of use's, and built in
the appropriate run-time logic to know whether to bother to place
lock() and share() calls. In my main code, I placed the appropriate
logic to know to proceed linearily instead of multi-threaded depending
on a run-time option. With appropriate placement of () to delimit
function calls [instead relying on prototypes being available],
and a few other misc. tweaks, I was able to make Devel::DProf happy.
(Looks like massive numbers of split() are my slow point still.)
And in the process I improved the utility modules so they should now
work even without threads configured. A nuisance, but not a wasted effort.
And everything seemed fine until I went to switch back to threaded mode.
When I stopped giving my new run-time option, one of the modules
started complaining that I need to use threads before I
use threads::shared . Some experimentation showed I had to change my
require threads; in my main routine to use threads; instead,
to stop the message... or at least that was the easiest way I could find.
[NB: threads::shared does some magic to force you to include them
in the right order.] But with the 'use' instead of 'require',
Devel::DProf breaks again...
So, at the moment I seem to be stuck. If I use a 'require' then
threads::shared knows that threads weren't invoked at compile time and
shared threads don't work. But if I use a 'use' then Devel::DProf can't
monitor the program.
It's all down to a single statement, but a statement that seemingly
has to go in at compile time rather than at run-time.
Is it fair game to examine @ARGV in a BEGIN block?
Or am I going to have to use some hack such as requiring the
program be invoked via perl -Mthreads to supply the compile-time
context for threads when I want threads used?
Uggh, just realized I could pull a trick such as exec()ing
itself as perl -Mthreads Blech!
--
Those were borogoves and the momerathsoutgrabe completely mimsy.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:51:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: ithreads at runtime?
Message-Id: <bvnnf9$dcm$4@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) wrote:
> I wonder if someone could give me some hints how to enable
> ithread support conditionally at run-time ?
<snip>
> As the program is slower than I'd prefer, I attempted to profile with
> -d:DProf . That failed miserably on any module for which I had
> use threads::shared complaining that,
>
> panic: Devel::DProf inconsistent subroutine return at
> /usr/freeware/lib/perl5/5.8.2/irix-n32-thread-multi/threads/shared.pm line 17.
>
> According to the Devel::DProf documentation, this is a known failure
> mode for certain kinds of returns from routines (involving labels.)
>
> I rejigged my modules to do require's instead of use's, and built in
> the appropriate run-time logic to know whether to bother to place
> lock() and share() calls.
There's no need to do that. If you 'use threads::shared' without
having a previous 'use threads' those lock and share calls will become
noops.
> And everything seemed fine until I went to switch back to threaded mode.
> When I stopped giving my new run-time option, one of the modules
> started complaining that I need to use threads before I
> use threads::shared . Some experimentation showed I had to change my
> require threads; in my main routine to use threads; instead,
> to stop the message... or at least that was the easiest way I could find.
> [NB: threads::shared does some magic to force you to include them
> in the right order.]
It's not threads::shared magic, it's threads magic. If threads finds
threads::shared has been loaded before it, it complains.
> Is it fair game to examine @ARGV in a BEGIN block?
Err... yes.
BEGIN {
unless (grep $_ eq '-nothreads', @ARGV) {
require threads;
import threads;
}
}
use threads::shared;
or, if you'd rather:
use if not grep($_ eq '-nothreads', @ARGV), 'threads';
use threads::shared;
Get if.pm from CPAN.
Ben
--
Musica Dei donum optimi, trahit homines, trahit deos. |
Musica truces mollit animos, tristesque mentes erigit. | ben@morrow.me.uk
Musica vel ipsas arbores et horridas movet feras. |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:34:02 +0200
From: stan.holmes@eskom.co.za
Subject: Microsoft AD
Message-Id: <bvnita$6ao$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za>
Hi
I know this is not a helpdesk, but I need to update an AD from a HR Oracle
DB. The Oracle is not a problem, but I have no experience with MS AD. Can
someone assist me with a web site or sample code on how to read and update
the AD
Thanks
Stan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:40:23 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: MIME::Base64.pm
Message-Id: <bvnmpn$dcm$3@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Todd Anderson <todd@asgweb.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> After installing mime-base.64.pm i get the following error.
> Any help in determinig why is appreciated.
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> [Mon Feb 2 14:37:22 2004] Base64.pm: [Mon Feb 2 14:37:22 2004]
> Base64.pm: Can't locate loadable object for module MIME::Base64 in @INC
> (@INC
> contains: /usr/libdata/perl/5.00503/mach /usr/libdata/perl/5.00503
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/i386-freebsd
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005 .) at
> /usr/local/www/vhosts/fred.com/htdocs/cart.cgi line 3539 BEGIN
> failed--compilation aborted at
> /usr/local/www/vhosts/fred.com/htdocs/cart.cgi line 3539.
Have you actually installed it, or did you just copy Mime/Base64.pm
from somewhere?
If you did, you will need to make sure that the directory you
installed it under is in your @INC, for which you will need 'use lib'.
Ben
--
Joy and Woe are woven fine,
A Clothing for the Soul divine William Blake
Under every grief and pine 'Auguries of Innocence'
Runs a joy with silken twine. ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 10:00:38 +0100
From: "Christian Winter" <thepoet_nospam@arcor.de>
Subject: Re: MIME::Base64.pm
Message-Id: <401f6336$0$29515$9b4e6d93@newsread2.arcor-online.net>
"Todd Anderson" wrote:
> Hello,
> After installing mime-base.64.pm i get the following error.
How did you install it? Using CPAN shell? Copying it
by hand? Downloading the .tar.gz and doing all the
"perl Makefile.PL", "make", "make install" on the shell?
Or did you use an operating system specific package?
One can only guess what may have gone wrong without further
information.
> Any help in determinig why is appreciated.
> Thanks in advance for your help.
> [Mon Feb 2 14:37:22 2004] Base64.pm: [Mon Feb 2 14:37:22 2004]
> Base64.pm: Can't locate loadable object for module MIME::Base64 in @INC
So Base64.pm is not found in the paths given in @INC.
One of the common mistakes is having different versions
of perl installed at the same time, or installing OS-packages
that were prebuilt for a different version of perl.
Did you check for that?
> (@INC
> contains: /usr/libdata/perl/5.00503/mach /usr/libdata/perl/5.00503
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/i386-freebsd
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005 .) at
> /usr/local/www/vhosts/fred.com/htdocs/cart.cgi line 3539 BEGIN
> failed--compilation aborted at
> /usr/local/www/vhosts/fred.com/htdocs/cart.cgi line 3539.
So there are two paths that hold perl modules:
/usr/libdata/perl/5.00503 and /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005
(and there machine-specific subdirectories).
Look where the Base64.pm module got installed and see if
this path is contained in @INC (either using the "locate"
util, if installed, or using "find / -name Base64.pm").
If not, you should check if there are different versions
installed (maybe "perl" is a shell alias to a version
different from the one residing as /usr/bin/perl. Running
"perl --version" and "/usr/bin/perl --version" should show
you that. Also do a "which perl" to see which binary is
called when running perl without full path).
As a quick workaround, you can manually add the path to
where the "MIME" subdirectory resides to @INC using the
lib.pm module (see "perldoc lib" on that).
I'm not familiar with freebsd, but it seems as there were
some problems when mixing the packages from freebsd p5-ports
with cpan installed ones (losing $PREFIX at install time, so
modules got installed under /lib instead of /usr/local/lib/perl5).
Maybe you should check the freebsd ML archives on the web for
any problems resembling yours.
HTH
-Christian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 00:35:38 -0700
From: Bill <wherrera@lynxview.com>
Subject: Re: network card
Message-Id: <c8qdnfOxTrPV0oLdRVn-tA@adelphia.com>
> Ok, sorry if was unclear. In windows, wenn you go in dial-up and network
> connection, you can click on new connection and create it manually with the
> wizard, what I want to do is actually automating the whole process with a
> perl script. Now, if a connection exist I can manipulate it with IPHeper
> and
> IPConfig module, but if does't exist, how do I create a new one?
Win32::RASE, eg ppm install Win32::RASE or so forth
HTH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:14:49 +0200
From: stan.holmes@eskom.co.za
Subject: Perl - LDAP - AD
Message-Id: <bvnsaj$7bo$1@newsreader02.ops.uunet.co.za>
Hi
I know this is not a helpdesk, but I need to update an AD from a HR
Oracle
DB. The Oracle is not a problem, but I have no experience with MS AD. Can
someone assist me with a web site or sample code on how to read and update
the AD using Perl and LDAP
Thanks
Stan
My Email address is stan.holmes@arivia.co.za
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 08:32:14 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Perl For Amateur Computer Programmers
Message-Id: <bvnmae$dcm$2@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Iain Chalmers <bigiain@mightymedia.com.au> wrote:
> The seed of truth is both about its pretty universal usefulness
> (realtime 3d rendering and similar problems excepted), but also, as you
> mention, it has documentation containing things like this:
>
> >perldoc -f sprintf
>
> sprintf FORMAT, LIST
> Returns a string formatted by the usual `printf'
> conventions of the C library function `sprintf'.
> See sprintf(3) or printf(3) on your system for an
> explanation of the general principles.
>
>
> People with a few other languages under their belts wont be too fazed by
> that, and will work out they need to try the system man pages and get
> something like:
<snip>
> (note, the perldoc -f sprintf doco actually does go on a lot more than
> just the bit I quoted up there, but I think my arguement holds
I don't. It goes on to explain everything about sprintf except
'everything in the format string is printed literally except certain
sequences starting with '%''; and it only takes a little imagination
to work out that's what's going on from the multitude of examples.
The main problem with trying to learn Perl from the perldocs is that
they teach you Perl perfectly well, especially all the new *tut ones,
but they don't teach you how to program. This is a much harder task,
not at all suited to online documentation. For that you need a book,
or a teacher (personally I'd always prefer a book, but that's probably
just habit: I've never had any formal training in programming).
Ben
--
If you put all the prophets, | You'd have so much more reason
Mystics and saints | Than ever was born
In one room together, | Out of all of the conflicts of time.
ben@morrow.me.uk |----------------+---------------| The Levellers, 'Believers'
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 02:22:29 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
Message-Id: <7cadnbe_2abYx4Ld4p2dnA@august.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.5 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 10:38:12 +0000
From: Helgi Briem <HelgiBriem_1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: When to "use strict" when teaching?
Message-Id: <jeuu10hci36qaapq74be0efg60b9nifhqg@4ax.com>
On 02 Feb 2004 18:01:04 +0000, Brian McCauley <nobull@mail.com> wrote:
>From the outset put the shebang line, "use strict" and "use warnings"
>at the top of all your programs. Mention in passing that use strict
>"disables some feature that are mostly for Perl4 backward
>compatability" and maybe add that "in the advanced course you will
>encounter a few situations when you still want to use some of these
>features".
Now that's the correct way to introduce strictures and warnings.
Way to go, Brian.
Now, if only that made it's way into the FAQ.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 6070
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