[23685] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5892 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Dec 4 09:10:38 2003
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:10:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 4 Dec 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5892
Today's topics:
Re: Your code doesn't work <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Re: Your code doesn't work <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Re: Your code doesn't work <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Re: Your code doesn't work <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Your code doesn't work <bernard.el-haginDODGE_THIS@lido-tech.net>
Re: Your code doesn't work (Anno Siegel)
Re: Your code doesn't work <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Re: Your code doesn't work <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Re: Your code doesn't work <kuujinbo@hotmail.com>
Re: Your code doesn't work (Anno Siegel)
Re: Your code doesn't work (Tad McClellan)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:56:35 +0100
From: Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn09m$22kimd$2@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de>
Anno Siegel wrote:
> I get the impression you have very little experience in programming.
> There's nothing wrong with that, but you have probably bitten off
> a little more than you can chew at the moment. Get acquainted with
> the basics first. What is wrong is to over-estimate your own
> abilities.
I'm not an expert in programming but I'm humble and eagier to
learn more and more by asking the help of others and that's why
I posted the question. Unfortunately on this newsgroups as in the worls
there are very proud person like you and the others who replied me (apart
Michele Dondi) who feel authorized to mistreat beginners like me only
because they are "expert" in programming, that is all. I just asked
help because I was not able to accomplish the problem neither reading
the perldoc -f sort neither reading "Perl documentation". It is not a fault
to grab a piece of code written by others, but you and the others with your
proud answers mean just that. Just a counsel to you and the others who
replied me: don' start useless flames, but please be useful for others: if
you know the solution to their problem answer them otherwise don't do it.
--
Bye,
Colossus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:07:59 +0100
From: Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn0v1$24had5$1@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de>
Michele Dondi wrote:
> First of all, may you be so kind in the future and quote properly any
> post you're answering to? And in case you (really need/want to) change
> the subject line, please indicate so (by including e.g. "[was:
> something else]").
Ok, I commited a mistake. Sorry for that.
> There's quite a lot of traffic here, and a lot of helpful and
> knowlegdeable people too (not me!), but because of the former, the
> latter ones need help to help you. This includes giving some
> references about what's going one.
I was clear Michele, I've even provided the example output after
the sort.
> One nice feature of this NG is that posting guidelines are posted here
> regularly to the effect of "helping others to help you". Personally I
> don't think it's *necessary* to read them, but surely it can't do
> harm! And if someone (one of the helpful and knowlegdeable people!)
> took care of writing them, it may well be worth!
Again ? Ok I committed a mistake by changing the subject line and
forgetting to insert: was: bla bla bla but it's not the case to exagerate !
> So your sort routine is designed to sort an AoA by comparing some
> fields of the "inner arrays" (yes: I know all this is very imprecise,
> but hopefully it will be easier to understand for the OP!).
It's not mine, but as I wrote it's a piece of code grabbed from another
newsgroup, it seems you have read only the subject line.
> You're feeding the sort routine *an array of strings* instead! Have
> you considered reading
That 's what I want, I didn't know that the grapped piece of code was
designed to sort an array of array.
> perldoc -f sort and perldoc -q 'sort an array by'
> especially the bit about "Schwartzian Transform"?!? This seems exactly
> what you need.
I already did but that code/example goes far beyond my knowledge that is
why I asked help here, no need to behave harshly regarding the beginners.
> This portion of code seems rather awkward. Why not use
Because this is easy to understand Michele, that's why I use it
and I will continue to use it.
> The reason is explained above. As I said, I don't really know what you
> would like to do. But taking into account what I read above, I can
> *guess*, so here's my try; please do *not* complain if that doesn't do
> what you expected:
I will not complain, I wouldn't have complained to Aron if he had been
more polite toward me.
> Is this what you wanted?!?
Yeah, so my example was clear wasn't it ?
A flame arised for an easy task.
Bah, people are really stupid !
Thank you for answering,
--
Bye,
Colossus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 11:20:44 +0100
From: Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn1mu$24had5$2@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de>
Robert Dover wrote:
> Colossus wrote:
>
>> Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
>>
>>>A suitable starter might be
>>
>> What you call suitable is a very difficult
>> explanation on how to sort an array of more fields.
>
> Then maybe programming isn't for you?
Ah ah ah ah ah ! That is very funny ! Programming must
be difficult otherwise it is not programming ? Ah ah ah ah ah !
--
Bye,
Colossus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 10:30:03 GMT
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <L0Ezb.1017$lv4.761@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>
Colossus wrote:
[...]
> Bah, people are really stupid !
Oh yes, they are!
PROUD TO PLONK
Life's too short to be trolled, spammed or get upset about lame
posters! Make the Net a better place by ignoring those who annoy you.
Don't be annoyed; keep your calm. Be proud to plonk.
On the brink of doing just that.
However, if you are not a troll and you are honestly confused, then you may
want to read http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html .
While that page has little to do with Perl, it may explain to you why your
expectations and behaviour clashes with the established customs in technical
newsgroups.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 10:31:45 +0000 (UTC)
From: "Bernard El-Hagin" <bernard.el-haginDODGE_THIS@lido-tech.net>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <Xns944774F56F47Belhber1lidotechnet@62.89.127.66>
Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it> wrote in
news:bqn09m$22kimd$2@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de:
> Anno Siegel wrote:
>
>> I get the impression you have very little experience in programming.
>> There's nothing wrong with that, but you have probably bitten off
>> a little more than you can chew at the moment. Get acquainted with
>> the basics first. What is wrong is to over-estimate your own
>> abilities.
>
> I'm not an expert in programming but I'm humble and eagier to
> learn more and more by asking the help of others and that's why
> I posted the question. Unfortunately on this newsgroups as in the
> worls there are very proud person like you and the others who replied
> me (apart Michele Dondi) who feel authorized to mistreat beginners
> like me only because they are "expert" in programming, that is all.
What on earth are you babbling about? You're gonna get your ass
mistreated by me right now, but you sure as hell weren't mistreated
before.
Do you consider example code mistreatment?
Do you consider a suggestion to read the documentation for a function you
don't understand mistreatment?
Do you consider a plea for a better problem description which would help
us help you mistreatment?
Do you consider well meant advice to not use code you don't understand
mistreatment?
What planet are you from?
> I just asked help because I was not able to accomplish the problem
> neither reading the perldoc -f sort neither reading "Perl
> documentation". It is not a fault to grab a piece of code written by
> others, but you and the others with your proud answers mean just that.
You were advised not to use code you don't understand. Either understand
it or write your own. Perfectly sound advice. What's your problem with
it?
> Just a counsel to you and the others who replied me: don' start
> useless flames,
You weren't flamed a single time in this thread. You were *asked* for
things, but you weren't flamed. In fact, *you* called several people here
*stupid* for the sole reason that they didn't provide you with an answer
for your "simple problem". These people tried to provide an answer to a
poorly worded problem and in reward are called "stupid" by someone who in
ten years will still have less knowledge of Perl than they had ten years
ago. That's abominable.
> but please be useful for others: if you know the
> solution to their problem answer them otherwise don't do it.
That's what they do day in and day out. They've been doing it for years
and I sure hope they don't stop anytime soon. The only thing they ask in
return for their freely shared expertise is that people who come here
looking for it adhere to some *very* simple rules which were created to
make helping beginners like you easier for everybody involved. Seems to
me like you're the "stupid" one around here.
--
Bernard
------------------------------
Date: 4 Dec 2003 11:06:47 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn4g7$8p7$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Anno Siegel wrote:
>
> > I get the impression you have very little experience in programming.
> > There's nothing wrong with that, but you have probably bitten off
> > a little more than you can chew at the moment. Get acquainted with
> > the basics first. What is wrong is to over-estimate your own
> > abilities.
>
> I'm not an expert in programming but I'm humble and eagier to
> learn more and more by asking the help of others and that's why
> I posted the question. Unfortunately on this newsgroups as in the worls
Aha. It's all this newsgroup's (and the world's) fault.
> there are very proud person like you and the others who replied me (apart
> Michele Dondi) who feel authorized to mistreat beginners like me only
> because they are "expert" in programming, that is all. I just asked
> help because I was not able to accomplish the problem neither reading
> the perldoc -f sort neither reading "Perl documentation". It is not a fault
> to grab a piece of code written by others,
Not at all. However, blindly applying code to a situation it was never
meant for isn't going to do you much good. Complaining, in that situation,
that the code is broken is a sign of either inexperience or stupidity.
You did that twice in this thread.
> but you and the others with your
> proud answers mean just that. Just a counsel to you and the others who
> replied me: don' start useless flames, but please be useful for others: if
> you know the solution to their problem answer them otherwise don't do it.
Useful, eh?
My answer was useful (as were the answers of others) and did solve
your problem, as far as you ever stated it. You ripped it apart and
misapplied it.
I don't know what you mean by "proud", but Usenet isn't known for mincing
words. If you are easily offended, better get your advice elsewhere.
If you want respect, earn it. You don't do that by offending the people
who are trying to help you.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:18:13 +0100
From: Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn52o$24kaf3$1@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de>
Bernard El-Hagin wrote:
> What on earth are you babbling about? You're gonna get your ass
> mistreated by me right now, but you sure as hell weren't mistreated
> before.
http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html
> Do you consider example code mistreatment?
>
> Do you consider a suggestion to read the documentation for a function you
> don't understand mistreatment?
>
> Do you consider a plea for a better problem description which would help
> us help you mistreatment?
> Do you consider well meant advice to not use code you don't understand
> mistreatment?
Neither of this, you did undertstand nothing of the thread.
> You were advised not to use code you don't understand. Either understand
> it or write your own. Perfectly sound advice. What's your problem with
> it?
Neither my friend. You are arising this problem.
> You weren't flamed a single time in this thread.
Matter of opinion as far as I see.
>You were *asked* for
> things, but you weren't flamed. In fact, *you* called several people here
> *stupid* for the sole reason that they didn't provide you with an answer
> for your "simple problem".
Quote the message where I wrote so. I never said this. You are a flamer
and maybe also a troll. I called stupid those who arises useless flames.
>These people tried to provide an answer to a
> poorly worded problem
poorly worded ? I gave a perfect example of the expected output, infact Mr
Tore Aursand understood perfectly, so my message was clear.
>and in reward are called "stupid"
No, no. Again I called stupid those who arise flames, not those who kindly
replies to the newbie. I solved the problem thanks to the answers of the
repliers but what a pity that to have the solution a flame has been
arised !
>by someone who in ten years will still have less knowledge of Perl than
they had ten years ago. That's abominable.
Who tells you ? Are you a prophet beyond being the lawyer of the newsgroup ?
>Seems to me like you're the "stupid" one around here.
I do not arise flames.
--
Bye,
Colossus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 12:31:24 +0100
From: Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn5rf$24kaf3$2@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de>
Anno Siegel wrote:
> My answer was useful (as were the answers of others) and did solve
> your problem, as far as you ever stated it. You ripped it apart and
> misapplied it.
It's true. I solved the problem thanks to your code that works, I was
disappointed by the WAY you and others answered the thread that's why
I run in replying that your code doesn't work without applying it properly
as I did some hours later.
> I don't know what you mean by "proud", but Usenet isn't known for mincing
> words.
The meaning in the english language.
>If you are easily offended, better get your advice elsewhere.
I will do it.
> If you want respect, earn it. You don't do that by offending the people
> who are trying to help you.
You helped me being harshly and proud in your answers, I felt offended.
Anyway you are right, I will get counsel elsewhere,
Thank you,
--
Bye,
Colossus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:10:43 +0900
From: ko <kuujinbo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqn88r$9tp$1@pin3.tky.plala.or.jp>
Bernard El-Hagin wrote:
> Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it> wrote in
> news:bqn09m$22kimd$2@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
>
>>Anno Siegel wrote:
[ snip scary rant :) ]
> That's what they do day in and day out. They've been doing it for years
> and I sure hope they don't stop anytime soon. The only thing they ask in
> return for their freely shared expertise is that people who come here
> looking for it adhere to some *very* simple rules which were created to
> make helping beginners like you easier for everybody involved. Seems to
> me like you're the "stupid" one around here.
Don't mean to offend, and in no way trying to imply that its not good to
have a good rant now and then :) - but really, its a waste of time on
someone who: (1) wants a spoon-fed answer, (2) whines incessantly when
they don't get that spoon-fed answer worded just they way they want it,
and (3) can't even see/acknowledge the fact that there just may be the
*possibly* that their problem wasn't presented clearly.
And although the OP doesn't get it, finding about Anno's Text::Table
module was good for me :) - there are so many text-related modules...
keith
------------------------------
Date: 4 Dec 2003 12:44:50 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <bqna82$aj9$4@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
ko <kuujinbo@hotmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Bernard El-Hagin wrote:
>
> > Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it> wrote in
> > news:bqn09m$22kimd$2@ID-154800.news.uni-berlin.de:
> >
> >
> >>Anno Siegel wrote:
>
> [ snip scary rant :) ]
>
> > That's what they do day in and day out. They've been doing it for years
> > and I sure hope they don't stop anytime soon. The only thing they ask in
> > return for their freely shared expertise is that people who come here
> > looking for it adhere to some *very* simple rules which were created to
> > make helping beginners like you easier for everybody involved. Seems to
> > me like you're the "stupid" one around here.
>
> Don't mean to offend, and in no way trying to imply that its not good to
> have a good rant now and then :) - but really, its a waste of time on
> someone who: (1) wants a spoon-fed answer, (2) whines incessantly when
> they don't get that spoon-fed answer worded just they way they want it,
> and (3) can't even see/acknowledge the fact that there just may be the
> *possibly* that their problem wasn't presented clearly.
Well, there were traces of insight recently.
I think that these discussions do serve a purpose, besides informing
particular posters of the error of their ways (which indeed often
doesn't work). It is necessary, from time to time, to make sure
there is a rough consensus among the regulars and lurkers about what
is acceptable behavior and what isn't. These meta-threads help
establish that consensus.
> And although the OP doesn't get it, finding about Anno's Text::Table
> module was good for me :) - there are so many text-related modules...
That's why I plug it occasionally :)
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 06:35:37 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Your code doesn't work
Message-Id: <slrnbsuagp.5rc.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Colossus <colossus_NOSPAM_@freemail.it> wrote:
> Bah, people are really stupid !
I've been thinking that throughout this thread also!
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 5892
***************************************
