[23615] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5822 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Nov 18 11:56:45 2003
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:07:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 18 Nov 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5822
Today's topics:
Re: Bit counting benchmarks Was: count of 1s in a binar (Anno Siegel)
Re: bit sequence match <Edoallday@yahoo.com>
Re: Calling a different shell than the inherited one (Anno Siegel)
Re: extract block of text <zen13097@zen.co.uk>
Re: extract block of text (Sara)
Re: extract block of text (Anno Siegel)
How do I substitute the 2nd occurance of a comma from a (Greg Gallagher)
Re: How do I substitute the 2nd occurance of a comma fr <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Re: How do I substitute the 2nd occurance of a comma fr <GlgAs@netscape.net>
Re: installing perl <kingsmanalosh@yahoo.com>
Re: multilinepattern match <REMOVEsdnCAPS@comcast.net>
Re: multilinepattern match (Anno Siegel)
Re: PERL array of arrays (Anno Siegel)
Re: PERL array of arrays (BKennedy)
perldoc installation <me@privacy.net>
Re: perldoc installation (Anno Siegel)
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Re: russian chars <laie@wing_this_etsolutions.com>
Re: russian chars <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: where is DBI::DWIM? <tore@aursand.no>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 10:05:30 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Bit counting benchmarks Was: count of 1s in a binary number
Message-Id: <bpcqta$3ae$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Roy Johnson <rjohnson@shell.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> But if you unroll the table sub, it retakes the lead. At least on my box.
>
> sub table {
> my $x = shift;
> $table[ $x & 0xff ] + $table [ ($x >> 8) & 0xff ] +
> $table [ ($x >> 16) & 0xff ] + $table [ ($x >> 24) & 0xff ];
> }
Ah, but table is linear, shift/mask/add is logarithmic. Just wait for
the new 1024 bit machines...
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 20:07:31 +1100
From: Edo <Edoallday@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: bit sequence match
Message-Id: <3FB9E153.5090501@yahoo.com>
Jay Tilton wrote:
> Edo <edady2002@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> : my @k1 = sort {$a <=> $b} keys %h1;
> : my @k2 = sort {$a <=> $b} keys %h2;
> :
> : my $look_for = pack('(B2)*' => @h1{ @k1 });
> : my $look_in = pack('(B2)*' => @h2{ @k2 });
>
> Why did you change 'B6' to 'B2' ?
> I thought the values in %h1 and %h2 contain six 0/1 characters, not two.
because I change the lines of the data to
my %h1 = (
1 => '01', 2 => '00', 3 => '10', 4 => '11', 5 => '11'
);
my %h2 = (
20 => '00', 21 => '01', 22 => '00', 23 => '11', 24 => '11',
41 => '10', 42 => '10', 43 => '00',
111 => '01', 112 => '00', 119 => '10', 120 => '11', 121 => '11'
);
>
> : #why can't we replace the above 2 lines with
> : my $lookfor = join "", @h1{ @k1 };
> : my $lookin = join "", @h2{ @k2 };
> : #don't these do the same thing?
>
> Not even close. Do the values look at all similar when you print them?
no they do not look similar but that does not matter, isn't the whole
idea behind pack is to create a string from the array, and as long as
the string in $look_for and $look_in are the same "string coding" thats
all what matters?
>
> : my @results;
> : while( $lookin =~ /(?=\Q$lookfor\E)/g ) {
> : push @results,
> : {
> : map { $_ => $h2{$_} }
> : @k2[ $-[0] .. $-[0]+@k1-1 ]
> : };
> : }
> :
> : and could you place explain
> : map { $_ => $h2{$_} }
> : @k2[ $-[0] .. $-[0]+@k1-1 ]
>
> Not this time. This time we do it differently.
>
> You give me your best explanation of the code, then, if the explanation
> is mistaken, I will tell you what the mistakes are.
ok.. here we go
the once a match found and the condition of the while loop is ture,
@k2[ $-[0] .. $-[0]+@k1-1 ] retuns a list which starts from the last
item matched to the end of the remaining items in the ... no that is not
right.
oh.. it returns a list which is a section of @k2[last-item-matched to
last-item-matched + how many items in the @k1] which in this case
suppose to return @k2[number number+1 number+2...number+5-1].
now that we have that section off @k2, we evaluate the block { $_ =>
$h2{$_}} to each element of that list, hummmm. ok
setting each element of the list to $_ then ... gave up.
the return is pushed to @results.
the Dumper puts
$VAR1 = {
'22' => '00',
'21' => '01',
'24' => '11',
'23' => '10',
'41' => '11'
};
$VAR2 = {
'119' => '10',
'112' => '00',
'120' => '11',
'111' => '01',
'121' => '11'
};
$VAR3 = '
';
who can I have the results sored by keys in each hash?
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 12:47:11 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Calling a different shell than the inherited one
Message-Id: <bpd4cf$7gg$4@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Mark <admin@asarian-host.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> <dn_perl@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:97314b5b.0311161855.214ef879@posting.google.com...
>
> > I often use C-shell for reasons beyond my control.
> >
> > I want to call 'sqlplus' from within a perl script while
> > using c-shell. But I want the sqlplus to run in k-shell
> > or bash-shell. How can I do this? This is just an academic doubt.
> >
> > If I use :
> > system("sqlplus username/password << EOH");
> > sqlplus statement one
> > sqlplus statement two
> > EOH
> >
> > ... then won't the sqlplus run within the inherited C shell?
> > Or is there no such thing as the called sqlplus (or any other
> > called command) running within some shell?
>
> Have you tried setting an environment variable before making the system
> call? Like,
>
> $ENV{'SHELL'} = '/bin/bash';
>
> That might do it.
Do you have any reason to say so, or are you just guessing?
Anno
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 08:39:22 GMT
From: Dave Weaver <zen13097@zen.co.uk>
Subject: Re: extract block of text
Message-Id: <slrnbrjq93.4l0.zen13097@wormhole.homelinux.org>
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:51:28 +0000 (UTC),
Ben Morrow <usenet@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>
> <untested>
>
> perl -ne'next if /^\s*$/; print if m|/* -+ Heading2| .. m|/* -+ Heading3|'
>
ITYM:
perl -ne'next if /^\s*$/; print if m|/\* -+ Heading2| .. m|/\* -+ Heading3|'
<also untested>
Dave.
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 04:18:34 -0800
From: genericax@hotmail.com (Sara)
Subject: Re: extract block of text
Message-Id: <776e0325.0311180418.20e352de@posting.google.com>
Tore Aursand <tore@aursand.no> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.11.17.21.26.57.639834@aursand.no>...
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:10 -0800, Sara wrote:
> >> while ($line=<filein>) {
> >> [...]
>
> > Bleech- if you're looping through this data line by line you might as
> > well use Basic or Fortran..
>
> There are times when it's a wise thing to loop through data.
Yes, and this doesn't appear to be one of those times..
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 12:33:42 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: extract block of text
Message-Id: <bpd3j6$7gg$3@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Sara <genericax@hotmail.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Tore Aursand <tore@aursand.no> wrote in message
> news:<pan.2003.11.17.21.26.57.639834@aursand.no>...
> > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:08:10 -0800, Sara wrote:
> > >> while ($line=<filein>) {
> > >> [...]
> >
> > > Bleech- if you're looping through this data line by line you might as
> > > well use Basic or Fortran..
> >
> > There are times when it's a wise thing to loop through data.
>
> Yes, and this doesn't appear to be one of those times..
How would you know?
The main reason *for* file slurping is non-sequential access to parts of
the file. Picking out some matches can be done sequentially, you don't
*need* the file content in memory for that.
The main reason *against* file slurping is large file size (current or
expected). We know nothing about that.
The only reason for file slurping in this situation would be laziness.
That doesn't rule it out as a good solution, but it doesn't make it
the method of choice.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 04:12:38 -0800
From: ggallagher@swcis.nhs.uk (Greg Gallagher)
Subject: How do I substitute the 2nd occurance of a comma from a text file
Message-Id: <58950242.0311180412.562255b3@posting.google.com>
Dear perl oracles!!
Here's an snippet of the text I'm attempting to manipulate:
..",12345678,9999999999,"...
I need to find the position of the 2nd comma (between the 2 digits)
and replace it with a verticle bar.
I would very much apprepiate any ideas as this is driving me mad!
Cheers
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 13:22:34 +0100
From: Josef =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=F6llers?= <josef.moellers@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Subject: Re: How do I substitute the 2nd occurance of a comma from a text file
Message-Id: <3FBA0F0A.B3D72519@fujitsu-siemens.com>
Greg Gallagher wrote:
> =
> Dear perl oracles!!
> =
> Here's an snippet of the text I'm attempting to manipulate:
> =
> ..",12345678,9999999999,"...
> =
> I need to find the position of the 2nd comma (between the 2 digits)
> and replace it with a verticle bar.
> =
> I would very much apprepiate any ideas as this is driving me mad!
TMTOWTDI, so
s/([^,]*,[^,]*),/$1|/;
or
@field=3Dsplit(/,/, $_, 3);
$field[1] .=3D '|' . $field[2]; $#field--;
$_ =3D join(',', @field);
YMMV,
-- =
Josef M=F6llers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize
-- T. Pratchett
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:42:44 GMT
From: gilgames <GlgAs@netscape.net>
Subject: Re: How do I substitute the 2nd occurance of a comma from a text file
Message-Id: <8toub.330$aw2.286659@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>
$a=",12345678,9999999999,";
$a =~ s/(,.*?),/$1|/;
<<
..",12345678,9999999999,"...
I need to find the position of the 2nd comma (between the 2 digits)
and replace it with a verticle bar. Greg
>>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 19:13:08 +1100
From: King <kingsmanalosh@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: installing perl
Message-Id: <3FB9D494.50707@yahoo.com>
>
ok
it is fixed and I don't know why, here is what I did
# apt-get install kernel-package libc6-dev tk8.3 libncurses5-dev
fakeroot bin86
all went fine after that
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 06:20:15 -0600
From: "Eric J. Roode" <REMOVEsdnCAPS@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: multilinepattern match
Message-Id: <Xns94374AC613815sdn.comcast@216.196.97.136>
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
"Sunil" <sunil_franklin@hotmail.com> wrote in news:Np%tb.1$U71.32
@news.oracle.com:
> Hi,
> I have to match a string like
>
> "end;
> /"
>
> in a file. Any suggestions on how to do this?
/"end;
\/"/
or
m!"end;
/"!
What's so hard about that? :-)
- --
Eric
$_ = reverse sort $ /. r , qw p ekca lre uJ reh
ts p , map $ _. $ " , qw e p h tona e and print
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com>
iQA/AwUBP7oOq2PeouIeTNHoEQJaZwCfdGQPZt0FTupWbyEqG59kExKCz7UAnA6A
Kg3jUe+AxPTRHmriU5VWMt1F
=+rYz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 12:24:28 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: multilinepattern match
Message-Id: <bpd31s$7gg$2@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
James Willmore <jwillmore@myrealbox.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> genericax@hotmail.com (Sara) wrote in message
> news:<776e0325.0311171042.1adbfb60@posting.google.com>...
> <snip>
> > #!/usr/bin/perl -wd
>
> Just a suggestion ...
> when posting code, please avoid using the '-d' switch. I realize that
> it throws one into the debugger, but others may not. Given the
> various states of experience in Perl found in this newsgroup, this
> could confuse the not so experienced reader.
>
> Again - just a suggestion :-)
>
> > $_ = "a bunch of
> > stuff
> > is here..
> > end;
> > /
> > thats all
> > folks";
>
> Another suggestion is avoid setting '$_'. It's a special variable and
> one should avoid setting it. Again - I understand what you're trying
> to demonstrate, but those less experienced may not.
There is nothing wrong with setting $_ in your main script when it's
handy (and it often is). Care must be taken when doing this in a
subroutine. Then you *must* localize $_ before setting it, or you're
in for some nasty surprise.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 10:44:15 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: PERL array of arrays
Message-Id: <bpct5v$5r7$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Schlick <invalid@invalid.com.invalid> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> Tad McClellan wrote:
>
> > BKennedy <b_t_k@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I've done some reading
> >
> >
> >
> > Did it include:
> >
> > perldoc perllol
> >
> > ??
>
> Perl Laughs Out Loud? Perl Lots of Love?
>
> Oh, right - Perl Lists of Lists.
>
> How could someone who didn't know exactly where to look possibly
> overlook _that_?
>
> Now for some actual help for the original poster...
Finally! Someone who knows how to run a newsgroup.
> # Sub for making list 'A'
> sub make_random_list {
> # Push random numbers onto an array reference
> my $ret = [];
> # I hate $_ - I don't use $i, but there
> # are no possible side-effects
Why introduce the name when you don't use it?
> for my $i (0..9) {
> push @$ret, int(rand(101));
> }
> return $ret;
> }
That's unnecessarily complicated. Perl has functions (like map()),
that manipulate lists as a whole:
sub make_random_list { [ map int rand 101, 1 .. 10] }
> # Sub for making list 'B' - list of lists
> sub make_random_lol {
> my $ret = [];
> # Use make_random_list to make an array ref
> # and then push that ref onto another array
> # (also accessed by a reference)
> for my $i (0..9) {
> push @$ret, make_random_list();
> }
> return $ret;
> }
Similarly:
sub make_random_lol { [ map make_random_list(), 1 .. 10] }
> # Sub for printing list 'B'
> sub print_random_lol {
> my $lol = make_random_lol();
> my $i = 0;
> # Loop through the 'outer' list
> for my $l (@$lol) {
> # $l is a list - pretty print it
> # using join
> print "List $i: [", join(", ", @$l), "]\n";
> ++$i;
> }
> }
sub print_random_lol {
local $, = ', ';
my $i = 0;
print "List @{[ $i++]}: [@$_]\n" for @{ make_random_lol()};
}
Anno
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 02:54:22 -0800
From: b_t_k@hotmail.com (BKennedy)
Subject: Re: PERL array of arrays
Message-Id: <53240d5a.0311180254.4b833fd8@posting.google.com>
Schlick <invalid@invalid.com.invalid> wrote in message news:<bpblhq$imk$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au>...
> Tad McClellan wrote:
>
> > BKennedy <b_t_k@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I've done some reading
> >
> >
> >
> > Did it include:
> >
> > perldoc perllol
> >
> > ??
>
> Perl Laughs Out Loud? Perl Lots of Love?
>
> Oh, right - Perl Lists of Lists.
>
> How could someone who didn't know exactly where to look possibly
> overlook _that_?
> >
> Quoting "You obviously didn't read manual 4a chapter 6 section 12
> subsection 2 paragraph 3 line 1" isn't all that handy.
Thank you for the cryptic puzzle you've given me . . . everything i
dont understand at least gives me a direction to start learning in.
And here I thought ppl were laughing at me (perllol). Thanks again.
-Bkennedy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 23:29:38 +1300
From: "Tintin" <me@privacy.net>
Subject: perldoc installation
Message-Id: <bpcsc8$1mnm7e$1@ID-172104.news.uni-berlin.de>
This is just a comment/observation about people who reply that if perldoc
isn't on the system, then your Perl installation is broken/defective.
Well, that maybe one interpretation, but keep in mind that Perl as included
on later releases of Solaris doesn't include the Perl documentation. This
may well also apply for other similar OS's.
I must admit that it bugs me that Sun decided to do that as I find I either
have to hop onto a Linux box or browse through the ActiveState Perl doco to
find what I'm looking for.
So don't always assume that missing doco means a broken Perl installation as
in some instances it is a very deliberate (albeit, not a sensible) decision
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 2003 11:30:34 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: perldoc installation
Message-Id: <bpcvsq$7gg$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
Tintin <me@privacy.net> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> This is just a comment/observation about people who reply that if perldoc
> isn't on the system, then your Perl installation is broken/defective.
>
> Well, that maybe one interpretation, but keep in mind that Perl as included
> on later releases of Solaris doesn't include the Perl documentation. This
Which versions would that be? It just doesn't make sense. In Solaris 8
and 9 the Perl documentation is contained in package SUNWpl5p.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 02:22:45 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.4 $)
Message-Id: <44ydnXa1T9hISySi4p2dnA@august.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.4 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the question), or
"TOFU".
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:51:19 GMT
From: =?UTF-8?b?TMSByrtpZSBUZWNoaWU=?= <laie@wing_this_etsolutions.com>
Subject: Re: russian chars
Message-Id: <b54d391978ab2d1b2da2237da6721bbe@news.teranews.com>
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:36:29 +0100, Bart van den Burg wrote:
> Hi
>
> I'm starting to get some interest in east european languages (by now i know
> a few words Latvian), and I'm trying to convert russian texts to fonetical
> english. However, I think Perl is tripping over the charsets here, cause all
> output i get from running the script below is
>
> Use of uninitialized value in print at russisch.pl line 20.
>
> 25 times
OK, that would indicate that $write{$_} is not defined. Are you positive
that $write{$_} is defined for all the characters of your input string?
perhaps (${$_} || $_) would be better.
> Now i'm wondering: am i missing something extremely stupid here, or is this
> really a problem? And if the latter is true: What can I do about it?
> I save the text as UTF-8 in windows over samba to a linux computer... when I
> do "cat russisch.pl" on an SSH shell with charset set to UTF-8, all is
> correct
Let's start by consulting a few pages from the documentation:
perldoc perluniintro
perldoc perlunicode
> Thx
> Bart
>
> ------------------------------------
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
If using Perl < 5.8, use utf8 pragma!
Also, as a compatibility measure, the "use utf8" pragma must be explicitly
included to enable recognition of UTF-8 in the Perl scripts themselves (ie
UTF-8 string literals)
>
> my $line = "????????????!";
Escape non latin-1 characters.
For example, my nick is spelled "L\x{101}\x{2BB}ie Techie"
\x{101} is an 'a' with a macron (called kahako in Hawaiian)
\x{2BB} is the glottal stop (okina)
Perl will replace these with the actual value at run-time, so the
performance hit is next to nil.
>
> my %write = (
> "?" => "a",
> "?" => "d",
> "?" => "Z",
> "?" => "r",
> "?" => "v",
> "?" => "s",
> "?" => "t",
> "?" => "oo",
> "?" => "i",
> "e" => "ye",
> );
You may have to specify the encoding using binmode so the Perl won't
complain about wide characters.
>
> foreach (split(//, $line)) {
> print $write{$_};
> }
> }
> print "\n";
Aloha,
La'ie Techie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 05:26:59 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: russian chars
Message-Id: <4nzneux98s.fsf@lockgroove.bwh.harvard.edu>
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003, bart-news@nospamtvreclames.nl wrote:
> I'm starting to get some interest in east european languages (by now
> i know a few words Latvian), and I'm trying to convert russian texts
> to fonetical english.
Without commenting on your particular script, have you looked at the
CPAN Convert::Translit, Lingua::RU::Translit, etc. modules?
http://search.cpan.org/search?query=translit&mode=all
What you're trying to do is called "transliteration" and it's a
well-known algorithm for Russian writing. You can just do a
web/newsgroup search for "cyrillic transliteration perl" and you'll
probably find lots of useful information. I did.
Note the text may be Russian, but the characters (and alphabet) are
Cyrillic. Being Bulgarian, I notice those things :)
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:12:33 +0100
From: Tore Aursand <tore@aursand.no>
Subject: Re: where is DBI::DWIM?
Message-Id: <pan.2003.11.18.06.22.16.970268@aursand.no>
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:05:07 +0000, Eric Wilhelm wrote:
> This is partly an SQL question [...]
Let me first of all say that - without not knowing anything about what
you're trying to solve - you might be asking about too much for the SQL
standard.
However; Your existing solution - or what you're thinking about - seems
to have a general flaw already. Let's think about "doing something with
something" OO-wise:
1. You establish an instance of a typed something
2. You work with, and relate to, that instance
3. You get rid of that instance
Everywhere on this way you know for sure what/who the instance is, so why
do you need to re-create your relationship with the instance for each of
the parts above?
More code-related, these three would look like this:
1. Read data from a database
2. Do something with the data
3. Get rid of the data (ie. save and dispose, or just dispose)
Where do _you_, in _your_ application, loose control over what you're
working with?
> I am new to SQL, but I'm shocked by the fact that there is no "set the
> value of this column in this row" command.
Despite your arguments, there is:
UPDATE user SET username = 'john_doe' WHERE user_id = 34
This one sets a column's value for a specific row in the database. No
hassle.
> I can INSERT or UPDATE, but first I must SELECT to see if the row
> already exists [...]
Exactly _why_ do you have to do that? This seems like a design flaw to
me.
> It seems like an UPDATE statement could easily enough be translated into
> the required INSERT statement (but maybe I haven't thought forward far
> enough in this idea.)
You could - of course - subclass the DBI module and get what you want.
> Otherwise, tell me why this is crazy before I go write DBI::DWIM
AFAIK, there's a module on CPAN with that name already...?
--
Tore Aursand <tore@aursand.no>
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
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