[23194] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5415 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Aug 23 14:07:26 2003
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:05:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 23 Aug 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5415
Today's topics:
Matching FP Numbers (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Us (Tad McClellan)
Re: Matching FP Numbers (was Re: Matching FP Numbers an <mikeflan@earthlink.net>
Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf <wksmith@optonline.net>
Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf <mikeflan@earthlink.net>
Re: Regular Expression Question (Tad McClellan)
Re: root wants to use perldoc (Tad McClellan)
Saving Perl output (Richard)
Re: Saving Perl output <usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm>
Re: Saving Perl output <newsfeed@boog.co.uk>
Re: Saving Perl output (Tad McClellan)
SOAP::Lite HELP! (Mike Zupan)
Using Sprintf (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sp (Tad McClellan)
Re: Using Sprintf (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Usin <mikeflan@earthlink.net>
Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ? (Jon Bell)
Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ? <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ? <usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm>
Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ? <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:48:43 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Matching FP Numbers (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf)
Message-Id: <slrnbkf6nb.3eg.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> how best to
> match a simple number with a decimal point (fp number?).
You are expected to check the Perl FAQ _before_ posting to
the Perl newsgroup.
perldoc -q number
How do I determine whether a scalar is a number/whole/integer/float?
Which gives regexes for several different interpretations of "number".
> I want to match the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below.
Then why are you writing a pattern that matches a whole bunch
more that the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below?
my( $lat_minutes, $long_minutes ) = /(\d+\.\d+)'/g;
(or, if you want to match more than just those 2 fields, then
you should not say that you want to match just those 2 fields :-)
)
> I am using this right now:
> /^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\'[WE](\d+).(\d+\.\d+)\'/i;
^^^ ^^
^^^ ^^
This does not match the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below, so
is that the problem you are asking about?
If so, then that is because you don't allow \s+ before the
longitute, but you do before the latitude.
If not, then is this your real code? Did you copy/paste it or
did you retype it?
> /^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\'[WE](\d+).(\d+\.\d+)\'/i;
^^
^^
Single quotes are not special in a regex, so you don't need to escape them.
> Does (\d+\.\d+) seem like a good way to you'all?
That depends on what data it must match against.
Looks fine to me for the data you show below.
But if your real data might have:
10 N29° 21.33'W99° .75' 2.32 mi
rather than:
10 N29° 21.33'W99° 0.75' 2.32 mi
then it won't look so fine...
> Surely
> there is a simpler way.
See above (or the FAQ).
> I don't want a string, I want the
> number (21.33).
Why do you think that it makes a difference?
It almost never makes a difference, due to perl's DWIMery.
If you think it does make a difference, then you probably
aren't thinking in Perl yet...
> Then I thought to do come calculations and make the
> result a number like 99.1458330000 (10 digits after
> the decimal point) I could use:
When you search the Perl FAQs for "number" you also find this one:
Why am I getting long decimals (eg, 19.9499999999999)
instead of the numbers I should be getting (eg, 19.95)?
I can't really tell if you know about accuracy/precision issues
as they relate to the representations of numbers in a computer.
If you already knew that, then never mind. :-)
> __DATA__
> 10 N29° 21.33'W99° 8.75' 2.32 mi
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:47:12 GMT
From: Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Matching FP Numbers (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf)
Message-Id: <3F47A937.39BC636D@earthlink.net>
Tad McClellan wrote:
>
> You are expected to check the Perl FAQ _before_ posting to
> the Perl newsgroup.
>
> perldoc -q number
>
> How do I determine whether a scalar is a number/whole/integer/float?
>
> Which gives regexes for several different interpretations of "number".
Believe me, I checked all the faqs pretty good, and the other
documentation before I posted. I'm just not real good at
finding what I need.
> > I want to match the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below.
>
> Then why are you writing a pattern that matches a whole bunch
> more that the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below?
>
> my( $lat_minutes, $long_minutes ) = /(\d+\.\d+)'/g;
I want to match more than those 2 numbers, but my question
only had to do with that part I mentioned.
> (or, if you want to match more than just those 2 fields, then
> you should not say that you want to match just those 2 fields :-)
> )
>
> > I am using this right now:
> > /^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\'[WE](\d+).(\d+\.\d+)\'/i;
> ^^^ ^^
> ^^^ ^^
>
> This does not match the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below, so
> is that the problem you are asking about?
>
> If so, then that is because you don't allow \s+ before the
> longitute, but you do before the latitude.
Yep, that was a problem. Thanks for pointing it out for me.
> If not, then is this your real code? Did you copy/paste it or
> did you retype it?
>
> > /^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\'[WE](\d+).(\d+\.\d+)\'/i;
> ^^
> ^^
> Single quotes are not special in a regex, so you don't need to escape them.
That's another great point there. Thanks for enlightening me.
They are now gone from my code.
> > Does (\d+\.\d+) seem like a good way to you'all?
>
> That depends on what data it must match against.
>
> Looks fine to me for the data you show below.
>
> But if your real data might have:
>
> 10 N29° 21.33'W99° .75' 2.32 mi
>
> rather than:
>
> 10 N29° 21.33'W99° 0.75' 2.32 mi
>
> then it won't look so fine...
>
> > Surely
> > there is a simpler way.
>
> See above (or the FAQ).
>
> > I don't want a string, I want the
> > number (21.33).
>
> Why do you think that it makes a difference?
I thought it might matter to the "better way" that apparently
is only a figment of my imagination. Apparently there is
no "better" way.
> It almost never makes a difference, due to perl's DWIMery.
>
> If you think it does make a difference, then you probably
> aren't thinking in Perl yet...
>
>
> When you search the Perl FAQs for "number" you also find this one:
>
> Why am I getting long decimals (eg, 19.9499999999999)
> instead of the numbers I should be getting (eg, 19.95)?
>
> I can't really tell if you know about accuracy/precision issues
> as they relate to the representations of numbers in a computer.
>
> If you already knew that, then never mind. :-)
>
Here is my entire code - revised again.
All works great now, thanks.
use strict;
use warnings;
my $oldtrfile = 'rt1.txt';
my $newtrfile = 'tr1.txt';
my $lat;
my $long;
#Get all route lat/longs and convert to decimal degrees
open TRIN, $oldtrfile or die "Cannot open $oldtrfile: $!";
open TROUT, ">", $newtrfile or die "Cannot open $newtrfile: $!";
foreach (<TRIN>) {
next unless
(/^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+.\d+)'[WE](\d+).\s(\d+.\d+)'/i);
$lat = sprintf '%.9f', $2+($3/60);
$long = sprintf '%.10f', $4+($5/60);
print TROUT "TP,DMS,$lat,$long,12/31/1989,0:00:00,0\n";
}
close TRIN;
close TROUT;
print "All done.\n";
__END__
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 16:05:58 GMT
From: "Bill Smith" <wksmith@optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf
Message-Id: <GhM1b.166807$_R5.62890526@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
"Mike Flannigan" <mikeflan@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3F477235.583020D5@earthlink.net...
>
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the documentation on
> sprintf to be very enlightening. I've read it many times
> and still can't figure it out, despite being a math kinda
> guy.
>
> I don't expect anybody here to explain it to me. It
> would take way too much typing. I have the Camel
> book and I'll figure it out today or tomorrow.
>
> But one thing you could help me with is how best to
> match a simple number with a decimal point (fp number?).
>
> I want to match the 21.33 and 8.75 on the first line below.
> I am using this right now:
> /^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\'[WE](\d+).(\d+\.\d+)\'/i;
OK, but you forgot the whitespace between degrees and minutes of
longitude.
>
> Does (\d+\.\d+) seem like a good way to you'all?
Sure, but you would have better error checking with
(/d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}). Note: You should always check for
a successful match before using captured substrings. I accidently left
a blank line at the end of my example. I left it there to show the
value of this test.
> Surely
> there is a simpler way. I don't want a string, I want the
> number (21.33).
The distinction between string and number in Perl can be confusing, but
you can almost always ignore it.
>
> Then I thought to do come calculations and make the
> result a number like 99.1458330000 (10 digits after
> the decimal point) I could use:
>
> $l = $4+($5/60);
> $m = sprintf %.10f, $l;
Your idea is right, but A FORMAT is a string. It requires quotes. This
is documented indirectly by the examples in perl -f sprintf and by the
references to C documentation. There really is no need for formating
here unless you wish to control the format of output.
>
> The error I get is
> "Number found where operator expected at . . . line 28,
> near "%.p" . . . "
>
> I've tried a bunch of things, but can't fix the problem.
>
This example should help
Bill
use strict;
use warnings;
foreach (<DATA>){
unless (
/^\s{9}(\d{1,3}) # ID
\s+[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\' # Lat
[WE](\d+).\s+(\d+\.\d+)\' # Lon
/xi){
warn "Invalid input line\n";
next;
}
my $l = $4+($5/60);
my $m = sprintf"%13.10f", $l;
print "$m $l \n";
}
__DATA__
10 N29° 21.33'W99° 8.75' 2.32 mi
11 N29° 20.16'W99° 10.63'23.55 mi
12 N29° 18.75'W99° 34.02' 8.94 mi
13 N29° 16.76'W99° 42.63' 7.64 mi
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:33:07 GMT
From: Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf
Message-Id: <3F47A5E9.89C8D7B3@earthlink.net>
Bill Smith wrote:
>
> OK, but you forgot the whitespace between degrees and minutes of
> longitude.
Right you are. Thank you.
> Sure, but you would have better error checking with
> (/d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}). Note: You should always check for
> a successful match before using captured substrings. I accidently left
> a blank line at the end of my example. I left it there to show the
> value of this test.
I was already doing this - I just didn't post it in my
first message.
> The distinction between string and number in Perl can be confusing, but
> you can almost always ignore it.
>
That's what I thought. I just felt like I was doing this
the wrong way.
> Your idea is right, but A FORMAT is a string. It requires quotes. This
> is documented indirectly by the examples in perl -f sprintf and by the
> references to C documentation. There really is no need for formating
> here unless you wish to control the format of output.
>
Thanks alot for all the help. This is what I finally ended up with:
use strict;
use warnings;
my $oldtrfile = 'rt1.txt';
my $newtrfile = 'tr1.txt';
my $lat;
my $long;
#Get all route lat/longs and convert to decimal degrees
open TRIN, $oldtrfile or die "Cannot open $oldtrfile: $!";
open TROUT, ">", $newtrfile or die "Cannot open $newtrfile: $!";
foreach (<TRIN>) {
next unless
(/^\s{9}(\d{1,3})\s*[NS](\d+).\s+(\d+.\d+)\'[WE](\d+).\s(\d+.\d+)\'/i);
$lat = sprintf "%12.9f", $2+($3/60);
$long = sprintf "%13.10f", $4+($5/60);
print TROUT "TP,DMS,$lat,$long,12/31/1989,0:00:00,0\n";
}
close TRIN;
close TROUT;
print "All done.\n";
__END__
Seems to work like a charm for me. I tried to combine the
sprint statements in the print statement, and get rid of
the $lat, $long, but that did not work for me. I suspect
it can be done, but I couldn't get it done.
Thanks again,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:02:08 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Regular Expression Question
Message-Id: <slrnbkf7gg.3eg.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Simon Taylor wrote:
>
>> print "matched: $_" if ($_ =~ m/^([A-Z&]\S*\s*)+$/);
> I just have to ask, what is that '&' in [A-Z&] doing?
Matching an ampersand character.
The whole character class will match a single character, as long
as it is one of those 27 characters.
> Is it just matching anything that starts with '&' in addition
> to A-Z? I suspect not - I suspect it's doing something else.
No, the ampersand is not doing that.
The ampersand and the character class and the anchor is doing that though.
What a component of a regex does depends on the entire regex.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:12:55 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: root wants to use perldoc
Message-Id: <slrnbkf84n.3eg.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Dan Jacobson <jidanni@jidanni.org> wrote:
> Superuser must not run /usr/bin/perldoc without security audit and taint checks.
>
> Gee whiz, what if man(1) did that too?
Then your system would be more secure.
In general, there is a trade-off between security and ease-of-use.
If you increase one, you decrease the other.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 23 Aug 2003 08:47:35 -0700
From: richard@walsgrove.co.uk (Richard)
Subject: Saving Perl output
Message-Id: <a733f83.0308230747.3207ec17@posting.google.com>
What I want is when some one clicks a link a box appears asking where
to save to, same as when you download a zip etc. Then for the comtent
of the file that is saved to be generated by a Perl script.
I am new at this and don't even know if this is possible.
Thanks
RH
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 16:44:20 -0000
From: "David K. Wall" <usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re: Saving Perl output
Message-Id: <Xns93E0819666E99dkwwashere@216.168.3.30>
richard@walsgrove.co.uk (Richard) wrote:
> What I want is when some one clicks a link a box appears asking where
> to save to, same as when you download a zip etc. Then for the comtent
> of the file that is saved to be generated by a Perl script.
> I am new at this and don't even know if this is possible.
Yes, it's possible, but it has nothing to do with Perl, because HTTP is
independent of the programming language used to do CGI. That said, you can
use CGI.pm to do this properly; look in the docs for "CREATING A STANDARD
HTTP HEADER", or better yet, ask in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi.
For future reference, CGI-specific questions should be asked in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi, not here.
Followups directed to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi
--
David Wall
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:29:57 +0100
From: "Peter Cooper" <newsfeed@boog.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Saving Perl output
Message-Id: <bi88bb$6dgr1$1@ID-194358.news.uni-berlin.de>
"Richard" <richard@walsgrove.co.uk> wrote:
> What I want is when some one clicks a link a box appears asking where
> to save to, same as when you download a zip etc. Then for the comtent
> of the file that is saved to be generated by a Perl script.
> I am new at this and don't even know if this is possible.
It is. There are better ways of doing it than this, but put this script
someplace where you can run CGI scripts:
#!/usr/bin/perl (or #!perl if you're on Windows)
print "Content-type: application/octet-stream\n\n";
foreach (1..1000) { print; }
And then try to access it. Your browser will bring up the 'save or open'
dialog box, and if you save it, and then open file afterwards, it'll be all
the numbers from one through to a thousand. Is this vaguely what you wanted?
If so, you can start to make it a bit more elegant ;-)
Pete
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 12:31:57 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Saving Perl output
Message-Id: <slrnbkf98d.3lk.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Richard <richard@walsgrove.co.uk> wrote:
> What I want is when some one clicks a link a box appears asking where
> to save to, same as when you download a zip etc. Then for the comtent
> of the file that is saved to be generated by a Perl script.
The answer to the above would be different in only trivial ways
from if you had asked this instead:
... file that is saved to be generated by a Python script.
or
... file that is saved to be generated by a Visual Basic script.
The question is independant of which programming language you
choose to write your CGI programs in, so it should be asked in
a newsgroup that is independant of programming language, such
as in the comp.infosystems.www.* groups.
The answer to the Perl part of your question is:
You use the print() function to make output.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 23 Aug 2003 10:02:01 -0700
From: mzupan@meso.com (Mike Zupan)
Subject: SOAP::Lite HELP!
Message-Id: <9d302332.0308230902.22df9d1@posting.google.com>
I've written soap clients before but never
anything this complicated. Here are the links
PIRP: http://homer.meso.com/crap/PIRP_Schema_v1.xsd
WSDL: http://homer.meso.com/crap/OperationsService.wsdl
Here is a link to what the XML request is supposed to look like
http://homer.meso.com/crap/getIntervalData_request.txt
Here is my perl script
http://homer.meso.com/crap/perl.txt
This is what I get
http://homer.meso.com/crap/getIntervalData_request.txt
<faultstring>org.xml.sax.SAXException: Deserializing parameter
'intervals': could not find deserializer for type
ArrayOfOperationInterval</faultstring>
for some reason that is wrong and for the life of me I canot figure out why.
it almost seems like the wsdl file might be wrong.. but i think its in the perl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 11:21:45 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Using Sprintf (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf)
Message-Id: <slrnbkf54p.3eg.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Subject: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf
Please make two posts with one subject rather than one post
with two subjects.
> Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the documentation on
> sprintf to be very enlightening. I've read it many times
> and still can't figure it out, despite being a math kinda
^^
> guy.
What "it"?
If the "it" is a syntax error, like below, then oh well, perl
has to understand your instructions before it will get to
carrying them out.
If the "it" was a semantic error, such as "how do I get only
two digits after the decimal?", then tell us your "it", and
we'll tell you how to sprintf() it.
> $m = sprintf %.10f, $l;
>
> The error I get is
> "Number found where operator expected at . . . line 28,
> near "%.p" . . . "
^^^
Why doesn't that say "%.10"?
Is this your real code? Did you copy/paste it or did you retype it?
> I've tried a bunch of things, but can't fix the problem.
Put quotes around strings:
$m = sprintf '%.10f', $l;
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 17:53:10 GMT
From: Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Using Sprintf (was Re: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf)
Message-Id: <3F47AA9F.6DF6B14B@earthlink.net>
Tad McClellan wrote:
> Mike Flannigan <mikeflan@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Subject: Matching FP Numbers and Using Sprintf
>
> Please make two posts with one subject rather than one post
> with two subjects.
>
> > Maybe it's just me, but I don't find the documentation on
> > sprintf to be very enlightening. I've read it many times
> > and still can't figure it out, despite being a math kinda
> ^^
> > guy.
>
> What "it"?
As you have probably already figured out, "it" was the
format syntax. To be honest, I still have not figured it
out yet, but I'm still working on it.
For instance, I'm surprised to find that "%12.9f" seems
to give the same output at "%.9f".
I would expect that "%12.9f" would only give 8 numbers
after the decimal for a number over 100
(i.e. W101° 8.75' 2.32 mi), which converts to 101.145830000
but it gives 9 as I want. I just need to hit the book :-)
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 15:17:06 GMT
From: jtbellq2f@presby.edu (Jon Bell)
Subject: Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ?
Message-Id: <HK2vsI.1My@presby.edu>
In article <HK27os.JF5@presby.edu>, Jon Bell <jtbellap8@presby.edu> wrote:
> [...]. The field of Perl programming is much
>bigger than just CGI scripts.
>
>And many of the problems that face CGI programmers who use Perl don't
>depend on the fact that they're using Perl, but instead on server
>configuration, understanding the CGI protocol, etc.
At the risk of creating a greasy spot on the pavement where a horse used
to be, here's a parallel example.
The projects that *I* do in Perl usually have to do with processing e-mail
and newsgroup messages. For example, the moderation software for
news.newusers.questions. If I had questions about the fine points of
Net::NNTP and Net::SMTP (all praise to their authors), I'd feel free to
ask them in one of the comp.lang.perl.* groups. If I had problems with
setting up my news server to accept the messages that Net::NNTP is trying
to post, or questions about what information should be in which headers of
the postings that I'm feeding to Net::NNTP, I wouldn't think of asking
them here; I'd go over to news.software.nntp.
--
Jon Bell <jtbellap8@presby.edu> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 16:54:37 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ?
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308231631110.5173@lxplus087.cern.ch>
On Fri, Aug 22, Matt Garrish inscribed on the eternal scroll:
[re: a special newsgroup for Perl beginners]
> > Has anyone considered reading the not-insignificant previous
> > discussions on that topic area? :-}
>
> They also tend to go nowhere,
And that's likely to be so very different this time around just how?
> as they inevitably fall into bickering about
> whether clpm is the be-all and end-all of perl groups
Oh, come on: there's been some helpful and constructive discussion in
the past, but the substantive bottom line that I took from it was that
there are very, very few who have the strength of will and patience to
shepherd folks who, for the most part, are new to Usenet as well as
being new to Perl; what's going to happen is that - with maybe a few
honourable exceptions[1] - some relatively clue-impaired
wanna-be-teachers would hold court on the beginners group, while most
of the experts would stay away; but beginners would ask their
questions on the non-beginner group anyway, because they'd know that's
where the experts hang out.
[1] my admiration goes out to those who hang out on
news.newusers.questions to do just that (hi Jon); it's not
a task that I could cope with, to be fran^W candid.
Speaking now for myself, I'm no expert here: there's a few areas where
I think I know what I'm talking about, but for the most part I come
here as much to learn from those who know better, and to pay some of
that back by sharing the bits I do know. And that's what Usenet is
all about, IMHO.
> is it perhaps time to do something?
Some of the problems are ongoing, and have been a feature of Usenet
ever since September (YKWIM, see Abigail's standard dateline). Some
of the proposed solutions are IMHO considerably worse than the
disease. I say let's just try to get along on the basis of fair
shares, and try not to waste too much effort on those who insist on
spoiling the party.
all the best
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 16:11:37 -0000
From: "David K. Wall" <usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ?
Message-Id: <Xns93E07C0A46655dkwwashere@216.168.3.30>
jtbellq2f@presby.edu (Jon Bell) wrote:
> In article <PAy1b.4299$iW6.682@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>,
> Luriel <luriel@gfy.yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Alan J. Flavell wrote:
>>> On Fri, Aug 22, Matt Garrish inscribed on the eternal scroll:
>>[....]
>>>> It isn't much of a stretch for me to understand why new programmers
>>>> trying to get their scripts to run in Apache (simply as an example
>>>> that occurs quite frequently), would think it perfectly reasonable
>>>> to post to comp.lang.perl.misc to ask other Perl programmers what
>>>> the problem might be (without expecting to be flamed). One would
>>>> assume that Perl programmers would probably be familiar with
>>>> setting up the environment in which to run their scripts, and be
>>>> willing to help.
>>>
>>> That's where you'd be dead wrong, for many of the serious users of
>>> Perl here. (Myself, for one, excluded... but then, maybe I'm not
>>> serious enough... ;-)
>>
>>And you can speak for each_and_every person in this group? Do you really
>>think no "serious" programmer would use it on a www platform???
>
> No, Alan is alluding to the fact that many serious Perl programmers don't
> do CGI scripts. Perl existed for many years, and had a strong following,
> even before it became popular for CGI scripts. I've been using Perl
> extensively for about ten years, but wrote my first CGI script only
> about a year and a half ago.
Ambiguity reigns. I thought Alan meant that a Perl programmer may not
necessarily know or care how to set up a web server to use Perl for CGI,
even if he or she frequently uses Perl for CGI programming. But either
way, CGI topics are off-topic for this group even if they are Frequently
Occurring.
--
David Wall
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 18:12:52 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: What ever happened to comp.lang.perl ?
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308231803470.5173@lxplus087.cern.ch>
On Sat, Aug 23, Jon Bell inscribed on the eternal scroll:
> Very few servers carry out all control messages (especially rmgroups)
> automatically because it's too easy to forge them.
But it only needed a news admin to do some relevant housekeeping once
in the last century to get that sorted out...? Otherwise their
server would be awash with derelict groups, I'd have thought.
> It's possible to set up a server to use PGP to verify the sender of
> PGP-signed control messages,
Indeed. Not being a news admin myself, I must admit I thought that
had become accepted practice by now. Thanks for the clarification.
> but many server admins don't go to that trouble.
>
> Newgroup control messages are affected by the same considerations, but at
> least if someone using a certain server doesn't see a new group show up
> that he's been waiting for, he can ask the server admin to add it,
Which wouldn't help much if their upstream feed didn't carry it?
> >What's odd to me is that big-8 chkgroups messages are sent at
> >intervals, which are supposed to facilitate synchronisation of the
> >newsgroup names, but it seems that some servers don't honour those
> >either.
>
> As with other control messages, in order to be sure a checkgroups is
> valid, you need to use PGP.
Indeed, or at least once in every few years to do a manual
verification (which, for the big-8 groups, wouldn't seem to be *such*
a challenging task, or am I being unreasonable?).
But I fear I'm making the mistake of drifing into detailed discussion
of off-topic matters, so please accept my apologies.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:59:56 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Message-Id: <3F18A600.3040306@rochester.rr.com>
Ron wrote:
> Tried this code get a server 500 error.
>
> Anyone know what's wrong with it?
>
> if $DayName eq "Select a Day" or $RouteName eq "Select A Route") {
(---^
> dienice("Please use the back button on your browser to fill out the Day
> & Route fields.");
> }
...
> Ron
...
--
Bob Walton
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 5415
***************************************
