[23173] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5394 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Aug 20 03:05:53 2003
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 20 Aug 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5394
Today's topics:
##Not interested in Bangin' Code?## <res1kymn@verizon.net>
and Randal L. Schwartz the hacker <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config (Tad McClellan)
Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca>
dogma ...without the personal attacks <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks <dha@panix.com>
Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: dogma....re: modules <kkeller-spammmm@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Re: dogma....re: modules <gregs@trawna.com>
Re: dogma....re: modules <steven.smolinski@sympatico.ca>
Re: dogma....re: modules <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
eval and caller (Donald Gordon)
Re: eval and caller <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
fuck this little sicko newsgroup <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: fuck this little sicko newsgroup <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: fuck this little sicko newsgroup <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: Perl help <duster@duster.com>
Re: Perl help <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Perl or PHP for web work ? <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Perl script vs. fetchmail & procmail (James Willmore)
posting personal information <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: posting personal information <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: posting personal information <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Tad .... subcontractor to Stonehenge Consulting Service <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: Tad .... subcontractor to Stonehenge Consulting Ser <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Tad/Randal Schwatz/Stonehenge Consulting...you all suck <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Tad <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: Tad <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
your regulars <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:31:13 GMT
From: Tony <res1kymn@verizon.net>
Subject: ##Not interested in Bangin' Code?##
Message-Id: <BB6883CB.3257%res1kymn@verizon.net>
Wow! did I get someones attention?
I'm not interested in bangin' code... I just want to be able to install and
use some useful scripts like a formmail script. I've gotten some stuff off
the web to work but never any form processor not to mention form to
database... Ok I did! Where in the heck can I find a good script for
processing form to email that works and has good install readme and/or
manuals to get the darn thing running? I would really like some help on this
if you would be so kind.
"This message was brought to you by yet another flunky wanna be webmaster!"
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:56:14 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: and Randal L. Schwartz the hacker
Message-Id: <osd6kvgpmf6k3fassdol7259rjol372a4b@4ax.com>
did you ever come clean off of that?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:18:41 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config
Message-Id: <64013b2c9003e8ec14a390a26c9525c0@news.teranews.com>
>>>>> "hudson" == hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
hudson> The point isn't general discussion, but groupspeak and such that I
hudson> find in this newsgroup.
If you went into sci.math, and started arguing that "2 + 2 can also be
5", and then nearly everyone else said "no, 2 + 2 = 4, unless you're
inventing some of your own math, and then we're not much interested",
would you also call that "groupspeak"?
No, we're not colluding against you, but we've all collectively gained
enough wisdom to be saying similar things.
hudson> Just keep in mind this is a public forum and I got a right to
hudson> have my say.
Yes, and along with that right, you have the responsibility to accept
any challenges to that speech.
print "Just another Perl hacker,"
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 00:29:32 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config
Message-Id: <om86kvogookaj3auk6jgrrrbvvnfuuf331@4ax.com>
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:18:41 GMT, merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L.
Schwartz) wrote:
>Yes, and along with that right, you have the responsibility to accept
>any challenges to that speech.
I accept that. But I think I know enough to delete a directory or
parse CGI.
Of course...I am not talking top level abstraction here...just a
simple perl script to do what I want....
Why is everyone confusing doing a simple task with general
abstraction?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:36:15 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config
Message-Id: <slrnbk5ulv.6d3.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
> and all you perl hackers can have my dog/gold fish...send me your
> address and I will fedex them to you to do what you please....hehe
8950 W Olympic Blvd #389
Beverly Hills, California 90211
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:00:08 -0400
From: "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config
Message-Id: <U7E0b.249$c_.74008@news20.bellglobal.com>
"hudson" <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote in message
news:e976kv05lat96khanp2g9e7p85m4ci9ba0@4ax.com...
>
> The point isn't general discussion, but groupspeak and such that I
> find in this newsgroup. But...don't worry...I really don't have the
> energy to keep this up for too much longer.
>
Which exists wherever you go in Usenet, but I also haven't seen you trying
to elicit anything but. I would encourage you to learn all you can about
CGI, and then improve on the code in CGI.pm to teach the 'groupspeakers' a
lesson if you can. Until then, not every thought you have needs to be
posted. Your posts tend to be just personal comments to people (the general
discussion I was referring to), and would be better served in a private
email to the individuals. I would have sent this privately, but as you hide
behind a fake email...
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:31:33 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: dogma ...without the personal attacks
Message-Id: <obc6kvsckt5jjm5umgk0esn1h9j73r4hag@4ax.com>
I'm going to say it again...there is a whole lot of dogma and
mythology in this group.
Leave out the personal attacks this time and try to have a serious
discussion about it...otherwise you are just degrading Perl......
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:37:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: "David H. Adler" <dha@panix.com>
Subject: Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks
Message-Id: <slrnbk65od.pde.dha@panix2.panix.com>
In article <obc6kvsckt5jjm5umgk0esn1h9j73r4hag@4ax.com>, hudson wrote:
> I'm going to say it again...there is a whole lot of dogma and
> mythology in this group.
m-w.com defines dogma as "something held as an established opinion".
So in that sense, yes, there's a lot of dogma.
That, however, doesn't make it wrong. The dogma in question is the
result of many years of experience.
dha
--
David H. Adler - <dha@panix.com> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
You kids today have it easy. I remember when we had to write programs
with an ice pick and index cards. <Note: This joke is not Y2k
compliant. Soon people will ask, "What's an ice pick?"> - Lee Sharp
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:49:22 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: dogma ...without the personal attacks
Message-Id: <ipg6kv02nk9gk8egmmq39lfmnaf5le5a7i@4ax.com>
>m-w.com defines dogma as "something held as an established opinion".
>So in that sense, yes, there's a lot of dogma.
Hi...I always thought of dogma as pretty much a party line...it
doesn't have good connotations....kind of fascist
>That, however, doesn't make it wrong. The dogma in question is the
>result of many years of experience.
Fascist reasoning is to be questioned...that's for sure! Never trust
the party line...
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 21:16:19 -0700
From: Keith Keller <kkeller-spammmm@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
Subject: Re: dogma....re: modules
Message-Id: <jmsuhb.6jt.ln@goaway.wombat.san-francisco.ca.us>
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
In article <or36kvk3g581lds4ful2s5dcpi2seevcrv@4ax.com>, hudson wrote:
> that's not my point Bob, and you know it. My point is I am smart
> enough to write stuff for CGI or SOAP or delete a simple directory and
> people in this newsgroup have this kneejerk attitude that "no...you
> can't do that by yourself" and I think that's wrong.
Certainly you *can* do it yourself. Just not as well (and
as completely, and as free of bugs) as Lincoln.
For teaching yourself, roll-your-own is certainly acceptable.
But CGI, at least, is more complicated than you've thus far
made it out to be, as you're finding by reading CGI.pm.
Plus, a point that I'm not sure I've seen yet: by using CGI.pm,
you write code that can be maintained by others more easily than
roll-your-own. Good Perl CGI programmers know CGI.pm; they don't
know your code, and Perl can be tricky enough without having to
study a whole new Perl CGI API.
Write your own CGI routines all you want, but for production
code you'll be better off in the long run with CGI.pm. It's not
dogma, it's smart programming. Plus, it's two of the three
Pillars of Perl: Laziness and Impatience. Why write your own
code when someone else already has? And why wait for your own
code to be written when you can use someone else's (already tested)
code?
- --keith
- --
kkeller-mmmspam@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://wombat.san-francisco.ca.us/cgi-bin/fom
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (Darwin)
iD8DBQE/QvYPhVcNCxZ5ID8RAmfEAJ4s8gHaDKdFtJRV7p9vSUqqEvE7hACdHVdl
4JX8spPzolUYb3d8n58hTE8=
=LX7o
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:26:59 GMT
From: Greg Schmidt <gregs@trawna.com>
Subject: Re: dogma....re: modules
Message-Id: <lm36kvornq649m3kknves7mpf57phkrhjr@4ax.com>
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:50:45 -0700, hudson
<scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 03:33:44 GMT, merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L.
>Schwartz) wrote:
>
>>You know, hudson, please keep it up. You're proving our point
>>every time you open your mouth. Thanks for helping!
>
>bah...the whole point is to hack, hack, hack until you get the thing
>to do what you want...don't you agree?
If that's the point for you, then by all means carry on. For others of
us, there is virtue in being pretty sure that what we are about to write
will work first try.
>get it working and then understand what the hell you did...that's the
>learning process ;-)
I'll admit that on occasion I get to the point in a debugging exercise
where I just start trying things until something works, and then figure
out why it worked later on. But most of the time, I approach it
methodically, trying things that I think are very likely to work, not
just randomly (okay, pseudo-randomly...) throwing stuff in or taking
stuff out. IOW, I prefer understanding what I'm about to do over
understanding what I just did.
>but....it's all fun and games (for me, at least) so thank you merlyn
>for your reply.
You have a web site that says you do custom Perl scripting. I can only
assume that you intend to do it for money. If you are coding for your
own use or education, then it's fine to consider it "fun and games" but
I hope that you don't keep this same attitude when you take a paying
gig. Your customers will be far better off (in both quality of product
and development time) if you swallow your pride and realize that modules
like CGI.pm and SOAP::Lite really are better than anything you can write
by hand. (I don't mean to belittle your programming abilities. It's
quite possible that, given the exposure of many thousands of web sites
using your code; accepting regular peer review in the form of feature
requests, bug reports, and patches; and going through a hundred versions
over the course of several years, you could come up with something as
good as or better than CGI.pm. However, your customers don't have the
time to wait for this process, and with the already massive presence of
CGI.pm we have very little incentive to help you out with it.)
I think that in all of this discussion, you may be taking away the wrong
point. Nobody is saying you shouldn't try to manually parse CGI
parameters (or whatever). It certainly is a good learning exercise.
But one of the things that a good programmer will learn from
the exercise is that it is *hard* to do it right, so it works in all
situations, and that for *production quality code* it is best to draw on
the experience of others. In Perl, that means using modules, and the
sooner you understand that (and I don't just mean you saying "okay, I
hear what you're saying", but refer rather to if and when you really,
truly see the light), the better off your clients will be. Until then,
you will only ever be a hacker, not a programmer.
--
Greg Schmidt (gregs@trawna.com)
Trawna Publications (http://www.trawna.com/)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 06:33:22 GMT
From: Steven Smolinski <steven.smolinski@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: dogma....re: modules
Message-Id: <SCE0b.4781$HB4.770364@news20.bellglobal.com>
Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> wrote:
> You know, hudson, please keep it up. You're proving our point
> every time you open your mouth. Thanks for helping!
Randal, I believe YHBT. And please don't encourage the trolls.
Too many good people responding to morons makes me have to make
complicated scorefile entries to sort the chaff. And I hate complicated
scorefile entries.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: 20 Aug 2003 06:50:28 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: dogma....re: modules
Message-Id: <bhv5nk$nrb$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach hudson:
> words like "it's the right way to do it" are groupspeak. They are
> meaningless. Not to be rude or anything, but I think what I saw in
> CGI.pm wasn't too much, although no one has posted up a reply yet. I
> am sure if I look in the file pm that deletes a directory, I will see
> nothing too much either.
Maybe. Bear in mind that a module does more than just provide the basic
functionality. It may be the core of it, but codewise it can even be
the smaller part. A module author will spend a lot of time handling edge
cases and exceptions. He knows that a module is used in whatever
situation he can't yet foresee so he has to think about facilities to
handle them all.
Deleting a directory and deleting a directory could be two different
things. One wants to delete it only when it's empty, others would rather
like to see it happen unconditionally. Either way, both want it to work
with arbitrary directory names and get meaningful error messages when it
fails for some reason. A good module offers all that. Shelling out by
doing a 'system("rm -r $dir")' is the script-approach. You use it when
you are too lazy to read the documentation of a module, know that
$dir will only contain sanitized names etc. and that no error will
occur. This is totally ok. I have a couple of scripts on my machine that
do it like that because it's good enough for these cases.
But I am also a module author so I have to switch to a different mindset
altogether: provide a sensible interface (often the hardest part), catch
errors but allow users to see them, provide documentation (which is
tedious work), keep it up-to-date and wipe out bugs (rule of thumb: bug
reports always fly in in the wrong moment), make it as portable as
possible and so on and so forth.
This all serves the purpose of correctness and extensibility. Writing a
module is the best way to learn a lot of things.
So my suggestion is that you do just that: The CPAN is an open
repository so you can upload anything you want. Find something that you
think you can handle (and ideally, that isn't yet covered by the CPAN,
but it's no requirement since you can always re-invent something with a
different interface). CPAN users might benefit from it, but you'll gain
even more profit. Go to http://pause.cpan.org/, read some of the
documents you find there about module creation (they should also link to
the relevant perldocs) and create a user account. Finally do a
h2xs -X -n Your::Module
and populate this skeleton with some life.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:52:37 GMT
From: donald@mcs.vuw.ac.nz (Donald Gordon)
Subject: eval and caller
Message-Id: <1061358756.963841@bats.mcs.vuw.ac.nz>
Hi
Is there any way to change the output of caller when used with eval,
so that I can define the filename it returns - I'd like my error
messages to give a better location description than "syntax error at
(eval 12) line 3"?
thanks
donald
------------------------------
Date: 20 Aug 2003 06:52:54 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: eval and caller
Message-Id: <bhv5s6$nss$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach Donald Gordon:
> Is there any way to change the output of caller when used with eval,
> so that I can define the filename it returns - I'd like my error
> messages to give a better location description than "syntax error at
> (eval 12) line 3"?
You can use #line directives for that:
#line 10 "test.pl"
die;
__END__
Died at test.pl line 10.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:07:39 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: fuck this little sicko newsgroup
Message-Id: <7ge6kvslce329kt0ibqdg0n38qd9158vpj@4ax.com>
I'll learn Perl the way I want to and fuck you all...I'm out of
here....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:23:01 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: fuck this little sicko newsgroup
Message-Id: <2ef6kvo3churskprh0h5forl2kg2h08q1m@4ax.com>
aw...you know what...I'm not going to let you run me off like
that...fuck that...I'm staying
------------------------------
Date: 20 Aug 2003 07:00:24 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: fuck this little sicko newsgroup
Message-Id: <bhv6a8$oav$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach hudson:
> aw...you know what...I'm not going to let you run me off like
> that...fuck that...I'm staying
This group has seen many people like you. All of them left after a
while whereas the regulars (Uri, Tad, Randal and the lot) stayed. Let's
see how much breath you have.
Other than that, I think it's time for you to call in for a doctor. You
need help.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:05:34 GMT
From: "Vince" <duster@duster.com>
Subject: Re: Perl help
Message-Id: <isC0b.2516$Kt2.195444791@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>
Thanks.
Is there an ACTIVE newsgroup for job postings ?
"David H. Adler" <dha@panix.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbk5rt9.bpn.dha@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <cMA0b.3583$3U.1954@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com>, Vince wrote:
>
> > If anyone can help, please email me and let me know how much it would
> > be $$$ at info @ true-west.com
>
> You have posted a job posting or a resume in a technical group.
>
> Longstanding Usenet tradition dictates that such postings go into
> groups with names that contain "jobs", like "misc.jobs.offered", not
> technical discussion groups like the ones to which you posted.
>
> Had you read and understood the Usenet user manual posted frequently to
> "news.announce.newusers", you might have already known this. :) (If
> n.a.n is quieter than it should be, the relevent FAQs are available at
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/by-newsgroup/news/news.announce.newusers.html)
> Another good source of information on how Usenet functions is
> news.newusers.questions (information from which is also available at
> http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/).
>
> Please do not explain your posting by saying "but I saw other job
> postings here". Just because one person jumps off a bridge, doesn't
> mean everyone does. Those postings are also in error, and I've
> probably already notified them as well.
>
> If you have questions about this policy, take it up with the news
> administrators in the newsgroup news.admin.misc.
>
> http://jobs.perl.org may be of more use to you
>
> Yours for a better usenet,
>
> dha
>
> --
> David H. Adler - <dha@panix.com> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
> "We are the Borg. You will be assimilated! Nah, only kidding. We're
> just the Sontarans. Care to take part in some 'medical research'?"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:14:04 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Perl help
Message-Id: <x7smnwykpw.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "V" == Vince <duster@duster.com> writes:
V> Thanks.
V> Is there an ACTIVE newsgroup for job postings ?
and what is wrong with a very active mailing list and website?
>> http://jobs.perl.org may be of more use to you
the perl jobs list has well over 1k subscribers and most job posts get
hundreds of replies. what more do you want?
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 05:08:24 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Perl or PHP for web work ?
Message-Id: <x7vfssykzc.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "DB" == Damian Brown <damian@phpexpert.org> writes:
DB> simple answer - simple language - use PHP
for simple developers doing simple web applications. :)
perl is good for everything else. i will stick with perl.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: 19 Aug 2003 22:37:37 -0700
From: jwillmore@cyberia.com (James Willmore)
Subject: Re: Perl script vs. fetchmail & procmail
Message-Id: <e0160815.0308192137.3bc96a35@posting.google.com>
Shawn Milochik <Shawn@Linurati.net> wrote in message news:<pan.2003.08.19.22.42.33.43107.16205@Linurati.net>...
> Here's the project:
> I want to download my mail, and optionally do zero or more
> of the following:
>
> 1. Forward certain messages to another e-mail address.
> 2. Send a particular auto-response, depending upon sender.
> 3. E-mail a list of all e-mail senders/subjects to another e-mail address.
>
> Then, I want to filter all messages through a Bayesian filter, probably
> Spamassassin, then place the good messages back into my original
> e-mail account, except in another box, such as "unread" instead of
> back into the inbox, and spam into another box, such as "spam"
Okay, so far the only thing you need to do is read the documentation
for spammassassin. There's a few ways to do it. I personally use
MH-mail, procmail, postfix, and fetchmail. Fetchmail picks up the
mail, forwards it to the SMTP server on the box, checks for viruses
(yes, you CAN check mail for viruses on Linux - not that it would harm
anything - but my wife enjoys Windows, so I have to keep her safe and
get her mail - then she grabs the mail off my system ... where was I
... oh, ya), then it goes through procmail, which has a "recipe" to
filter it using spamassassin (to pick up "stray" spam - read on). So
far, the only thing Perl is spamassassin.
>
> I do not want to use any of the user mail functionality of my
> Linux server -- I just want to use my pop3/smtp e-mail account, and
> I want everything to be put back into my pop3/smtp e-mail account
> after it's been filtered, so that I can check it with webmail.
Well, this again is not Perl, but you can set fetchmail NOT to mark
messages as being read when you get them. Not exactly what you
wanted, but to send mail BACK to your webmail account seems redundent
- but that's my opinion and the fact that I'm spoilled by my ISP
(which does use spamassassin). However, if you want to 'roll your
own' solution, there are several Perl modules to aid you in this task.
Check http://search.cpan.org/
Just a side note: if you are responsible about testing, you're going
to need to set up a mail server anyway. I can speak from experience
that it's a bad idea to use a script (or fetchmail for that matter)
and not test it in a controled environment first. You end up lossing
mail if you don't test first ;)
>
> So the question is, should I use a hobbled together combination of
> fetchmail, procmail, and sendmail (hereafter referred to as "FPS"),
> or a Perl script?
IMHO, use the tools on your system. They are proven, maintained, and
work. That's not a reflection of any Perl scripts you may find/write
- but why re-invent the wheel? Unless that what's you want to do. I
mean, why write say, a web server in Perl, unless you think you can do
better than Apache -or- want the experience. HOWEVER, I'd ditch
sendmail and start using postfix ... but here again, not Perl and just
my opinion.
If you decide to 'roll your own', you're going to have a monumental
task ahead of you.
HTH
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:20:52 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: posting personal information
Message-Id: <4qb6kv47205g8q9n1pcbljekjjbngf5i7r@4ax.com>
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:36:15 -0500, tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad
McClellan) wrote:
>hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
>
>> and all you perl hackers can have my dog/gold fish...send me your
>> address and I will fedex them to you to do what you please....hehe
>
>
> 8950 W Olympic Blvd #389
> Beverly Hills, California 90211
not cool................is it?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:24:48 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: posting personal information
Message-Id: <80c6kv04r2o8p24ere06f5k4uo0i6mh13o@4ax.com>
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:20:52 -0700, hudson
<scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> 8950 W Olympic Blvd #389
>> Beverly Hills, California 90211
>
>not cool................is it?
hey Tad...what does this have to do with the discussion at hand? You
are just being a prick. Why don't I go post your personal information
to usenet....will that win my arguement?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:46:15 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: posting personal information
Message-Id: <e6d6kv4j51l4bnnf3qhi900dn9efi9eid4@4ax.com>
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:24:48 -0700, hudson
<scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:20:52 -0700, hudson
><scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> 8950 W Olympic Blvd #389
>>> Beverly Hills, California 90211
>>
>>not cool................is it?
>
>hey Tad...what does this have to do with the discussion at hand? You
>are just being a prick. Why don't I go post your personal information
>to usenet....will that win my arguement?
oh well, I guess any moron that knows whois can get that
info...still...you kind of suck if you know what I mean, you
prick...maybe I should go look for your info and post it to the world
as well.........
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:52:08 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Tad .... subcontractor to Stonehenge Consulting Services Inc.
Message-Id: <3ld6kv0mq5v3ao3i266u035668skbnoanf@4ax.com>
sucking someone's dick?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:54:19 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: Tad .... subcontractor to Stonehenge Consulting Services Inc.
Message-Id: <uod6kvo8m3m17joces47unenlpc3jucr1n@4ax.com>
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:52:08 -0700, hudson
<scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote:
>sucking someone's dick?
OK Tad...I will leave you alone...just don't fuck with me again....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:28:26 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Tad/Randal Schwatz/Stonehenge Consulting...you all suck
Message-Id: <8mf6kv4kqkn3t1em86carjuaao3ee4s28m@4ax.com>
you guys suck...that's all I got to say (for now)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:51:23 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Tad
Message-Id: <0kd6kvc26ji0qvr6stpkbcnlb5gb96ra54@4ax.com>
http://www.augustmail.com/~tadmc/re/tarrant_tax/tadmc_resume.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:09:57 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: Tad
Message-Id: <kme6kv476u0t733h9pd59026m7viqmehcf@4ax.com>
McClellan, Tad
9301 Norfolk Lane
MCKINNEY, TX 75071
972-508-2225
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:35:38 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: your regulars
Message-Id: <mkc6kvotn5k84250gikrqimnejnpn9nv2a@4ax.com>
uri is a prick for calling me a script kiddie for posting some code
for comment
tad is a prick for posting my personal info to usenet
nice.....
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:59:56 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Message-Id: <3F18A600.3040306@rochester.rr.com>
Ron wrote:
> Tried this code get a server 500 error.
>
> Anyone know what's wrong with it?
>
> if $DayName eq "Select a Day" or $RouteName eq "Select A Route") {
(---^
> dienice("Please use the back button on your browser to fill out the Day
> & Route fields.");
> }
...
> Ron
...
--
Bob Walton
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 5394
***************************************
