[23155] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5376 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Aug 17 03:05:58 2003
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:05:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 17 Aug 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5376
Today's topics:
Re: and why can't I do my own CGI? <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: and why can't I do my own CGI? <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: and why can't I do my own CGI? <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: and why can't I do my own CGI? <REMOVEsdnCAPS@comcast.net>
Re: and why can't I do my own CGI? <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: CGI.pm & MSIE box model (James Willmore)
comp.lang.perl.misc.recovery ... requests for comments <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config <dha@panix.com>
Re: Finding 'path to perl' of remote server (Vijoy Varghese)
Re: hand crafting soap for google api's <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: How to express "not followed by"? <spamblock@junkmail.com>
Re: How to express "not followed by"? <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: In My Humble Opinion... <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: In My Humble Opinion... <NOSPAM@bigpond.com>
Re: In My Humble Opinion... <chesucat@freeshell.org>
Re: peace and good night <REMOVEsdnCAPS@comcast.net>
Re: peace and good night <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure <NOSPAM@bigpond.com>
Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure <tony_curtis32@yahoo.com>
Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: perl zombies <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: perl zombies (Tad McClellan)
Signal to noise ratio <spamblock@junkmail.com>
Re: Signal to noise ratio <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 02:21:03 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: and why can't I do my own CGI?
Message-Id: <x7k79d9g8h.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "h" == hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
h> I think you are very wrong here in what you are saying. I just came
h> to say...hey...there are not really a lot of examples of using soap
h> with perl without the module and bam! I got slammed.
h> And using soap via IO::Socket is so easy. So I posted up my little
h> piece of code and people started calling me names.
you use the io::socket module? why not use real sockets. real
programmers do that.
you contradict yourself at every turn. and you have succeeded in
alienating the entire group. contragulations! and by the way, code
criticism is not hate. learn that too. that way lie moronzilla's
disease.
you have promised to shut up on this already. when will that happen? and
learn c. you will have so much fun reinventing all the problems
regarding pointers, memory management. i can see you now declaring that
all your c code is perfectly fine for mission critical systems.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:52:12 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: and why can't I do my own CGI?
Message-Id: <ts5ujvoj129q9v4d8ci78di8luripnhbp1@4ax.com>
>you use the io::socket module? why not use real sockets. real
>programmers do that.
hey uri....I'm all ears...please tell me about it.
can you do real sockets in perl? or are you talking C function
calls....
about my promise to learn C...it will take me a couple of years maybe.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:53:19 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: and why can't I do my own CGI?
Message-Id: <716ujvc15rio74ls21btt5ke2biv2qospi@4ax.com>
and...by the way, I just sent you an email, so check your mail
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:24:00 -0500
From: "Eric J. Roode" <REMOVEsdnCAPS@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: and why can't I do my own CGI?
Message-Id: <Xns93D9EDFC4C124sdn.comcast@206.127.4.25>
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote in
news:ts5ujvoj129q9v4d8ci78di8luripnhbp1@4ax.com:
>>you use the io::socket module? why not use real sockets. real
>>programmers do that.
>
> hey uri....I'm all ears...please tell me about it.
>
> can you do real sockets in perl? or are you talking C function
> calls....
<sigh>
Yes. Look up the following Perl builtin functions:
accept, bind, connect, getpeername, getsockname, getsockopt, listen,
recv, send, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, socketpair.
It's good to write things like soap, CGI, and socket stuff by hand from
scratch, but *only* as a programming exercise; never for the real world,
even if you only use it on your own play systems. I've done socket
programming in C, and in Perl using the above functions, and in Perl
using IO::Socket. I've done CGI programming by hand, using my own code
to parse the input data, and I've used CGI.pm. I've never done Soap in
any language; but you can be sure I'd use a module. In all cases, it is
instructive and illustrative to code it by hand, to understand what's
going on under the hood, but for anything approaching the real world, an
off-the-shelf module will almost certainly do the job better and more
efficiently than you (or I) can.
That said, one can't improve the state of Perl modules without knowing
what's going on under the hood and grokking the internals of the existing
modules. There are times when a wheel simply needs to be reinvented,
because the existing wheel is inadequate (example: Module::Build coming
out over the existing ExtUtils::MakeMaker). But -- not to sound
condescending -- "it is not yet time for you to leave, Grasshopper."
:-)
- --
Eric
$_ = reverse sort $ /. r , qw p ekca lre uJ reh
ts p , map $ _. $ " , qw e p h tona e and print
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:42:45 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: and why can't I do my own CGI?
Message-Id: <np8ujv8nee0vjg99eom65bob064lf4h8pq@4ax.com>
>
><sigh>
OK...sorry to make you sign...
>
>Yes. Look up the following Perl builtin functions:
>
> accept, bind, connect, getpeername, getsockname, getsockopt, listen,
> recv, send, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, socketpair.
>
>It's good to write things like soap, CGI, and socket stuff by hand from
>scratch, but *only* as a programming exercise; never for the real world,
>even if you only use it on your own play systems. I've done socket
>programming in C, and in Perl using the above functions, and in Perl
>using IO::Socket. I've done CGI programming by hand, using my own code
>to parse the input data, and I've used CGI.pm. I've never done Soap in
>any language; but you can be sure I'd use a module. In all cases, it is
>instructive and illustrative to code it by hand, to understand what's
>going on under the hood, but for anything approaching the real world, an
>off-the-shelf module will almost certainly do the job better and more
>efficiently than you (or I) can.
>
>That said, one can't improve the state of Perl modules without knowing
>what's going on under the hood and grokking the internals of the existing
>modules. There are times when a wheel simply needs to be reinvented,
>because the existing wheel is inadequate (example: Module::Build coming
>out over the existing ExtUtils::MakeMaker). But -- not to sound
>condescending -- "it is not yet time for you to leave, Grasshopper."
>
>:-)
perl is kind of built from other things, isn't it? sed, awk, C,
etc....maybe the correct way to learn perl is to understand
computers...since isn't that what those built in functions you are
talking about come from:
accept, bind, connect, getpeername, getsockname, getsockopt, listen,
recv, send, setsockopt, shutdown, socket, socketpair.
that's all from a sleepy grasshopper ;-)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Aug 2003 23:58:55 -0700
From: jwillmore@cyberia.com (James Willmore)
Subject: Re: CGI.pm & MSIE box model
Message-Id: <e0160815.0308162258.e5dc7f7@posting.google.com>
valid-till-end-Aug@dpw.clara.co.uk wrote in message news:<NiG7HfFWaqP$Ewft@nildram.co.uk>...
> My preferred option would be to switch off the XML declaration in CGI.pm
> but retain xhtml and add the charset back using a meta tag. Is it
> possible to switch off the XML declaration? Or are there better options
> I have missed?
If you decided to go with standard HTML, you can do so by doing ...
use CGI qw/:standard/;
The section of the CGI documentation has other settings listed in the
"Using the Fuction-Oriented Interface" section. You can also set the
script NOT to output XHTML using ....
use CGI qw/:standard -no_xhtml/;
You can also 'create' your own tags. The author gives direction on
this in the documentation.
As far as making your script browser independent, good luck. Even
though there are standards for what good HTML and CSS are suppose to
be and what is suppose to be supported, vendors still try to slip in
thier own brand of 'stuff' into the mix.
HTH
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:31:52 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: comp.lang.perl.misc.recovery ... requests for comments in alt.config
Message-Id: <jo4ujvcj7ongc9far85uvsi3mvn87sv1t8@4ax.com>
like it says...I think it is a good idea ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:28:14 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config
Message-Id: <f18ujv8rde60efia23ssft22sqo9a92vqc@4ax.com>
OK...I can see a recovery group won't fly in comp like it would in
alt...how about an open discussion group instead?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 05:20:59 +0000 (UTC)
From: "David H. Adler" <dha@panix.com>
Subject: Re: comp.lang.perl.open.discussion rfc in alt.config
Message-Id: <slrnbju45r.j3e.dha@panix2.panix.com>
In article <f18ujv8rde60efia23ssft22sqo9a92vqc@4ax.com>, hudson wrote:
> OK...I can see a recovery group won't fly in comp like it would in
> alt...how about an open discussion group instead?
From what I've been reading of your posts, you seem to be wanting not
open discussion - which is what happens on clpmisc - but discussion that
involves not telling people that you think they're doing something
wrong.
Additionally, I note that alt.config would be an inappropriate place for
discussion of the creation of a group with the name you suggest.
dha
--
David H. Adler - <dha@panix.com> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Hang on, you're a veggie, and you don't drink Guinness... why do I
bother fancying you again??? - Alex Page
------------------------------
Date: 16 Aug 2003 19:33:00 -0700
From: viijv@thedifferenZ.com (Vijoy Varghese)
Subject: Re: Finding 'path to perl' of remote server
Message-Id: <4c08aaff.0308161833.3157ac97@posting.google.com>
> Except that env(1) isn't portable, and on a few systems, they put
> it into /usr/ucb (or was it /bin?) instead of /usr/bin!
So you guys mean to say that there is no 'reliable' solution to my problem :-?
Vijoy~
------------------------------
Date: 17 Aug 2003 06:28:30 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: hand crafting soap for google api's
Message-Id: <bhn7ae$a9l$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach Abigail:
> Tassilo v. Parseval (tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de) wrote on
> MMMDCXXXVII September MCMXCIII in
> <URL:news:bhlt2c$hf1$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>:
>|| Also sprach Hudson:
>||
>|| > for my $varible (@form_varibles) {
>|| > if ($key eq "$varible") {
>|| > $kv{$key} = $value;
>|| > }
>||
>|| This will only return the last value in a query string such as
>||
>|| key=val1&key=val2
>||
>|| So what you need to add is the infrastructure to handle multiple
>|| occurances of the same parameter.
>
>
> No. All you need to do is make sure your forms don't have multiple
> inputs with the same name. ;-)
Thanks for this little piece of satire. :-) And now it's time to
dispense some ultimate truths about programming...
Incomplete or partial solutions are ok as long as they are flagged to
solve the problem only partially. However, most often something else
happens: a problem is targetted, solved unsatisfactorily and after that
the job description of the solution is tweaked to match the
implementation. It should be the other way round: make an initial
specification of what is required and then implement something that does
exactly that. Naturally, turning the sequence around is much more
convenient. It therefore seems to be part of a beginner's mindset.
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:59:19 -0700
From: "David Oswald" <spamblock@junkmail.com>
Subject: Re: How to express "not followed by"?
Message-Id: <vjts31ek1o4t4d@corp.supernews.com>
"Yi Mang" <yi_mang@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:832301af.0308161458.62bdbda5@posting.google.com...
> Thanks, guys, that did it. The problem actually should say "a sequence
> of digits is not followed by a digit nor a semicolon". Now it seems
> easy to solve.
> Thanks again.
You just had a breakthrough, seriously.
The key to getting a regular expression right is to know exactly, EXACTLY
what you're looking for it to match, and to not leave it too ambiguous. Now
"exactly" can indeed mean it matches a broad spectrum of things. .*, for
example, has an exact outcome though it matches a whole lot. But the
starting point is pinning down precisely what you want to match, capture,
leave behind, etc.
At that point it just becomes a matter of using the tools of your regexp
implementation to accomplish the precision you have dreamt up.
Also, earlier you mentioned that "a sequence of digits not followed by a
semicolon" was the same as "a sequence of digits followed by a
non-semicolon". I'm sure that you've now found that not to be the case,
which is what I'm getting at when I say you need to think of things with
precision when implementing a regexp.
But it's surprising how easy a regexp can become once you think through
exactly what you want to have match, and it becomes a sharp sword.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: 17 Aug 2003 06:01:15 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: How to express "not followed by"?
Message-Id: <bhn5nb$9k7$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach Gunnar Hjalmarsson:
> One reason why I seldom come to think of zero-width assertions is that
> I usually am particular about portability. However, I just checked,
> and I believe that it's just lookbehind assertions (available only in
> 5.005) that are a risk in that respect.
What do you mean with 'available only in 5.005'? Look-behind is still
there (however, it still has the limitation of only allowing patterns
with fixed length).
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:13:36 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: In My Humble Opinion...
Message-Id: <k60ujvouhnrfjmtpvl4bolh1edh2k172ju@4ax.com>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:45:37 -0400, Chesucat <chesucat@freeshell.org>
wrote:
>You people are all a bunch of assholes! Perl sucks! Python rules!;-)
>
>chesucat
hey...are the people nicer in python newsgroups?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:32:34 +1000
From: "Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: In My Humble Opinion...
Message-Id: <bhmlvj$12i94$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de>
"Chesucat" <chesucat@freeshell.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.33.0308162043150.27252-100000@norge.freeshell.org...
> You people are all a bunch of assholes! Perl sucks! Python rules!;-)
>
> chesucat
When I put my computer scientist hat on, I agree the Python Rulez! See
http://tinyurl.com/k8v3
But when I put my progmatic programmer hat on, I use Perl.
gtoomey
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 00:38:42 -0400
From: Chesucat <chesucat@freeshell.org>
Subject: Re: In My Humble Opinion...
Message-Id: <Pine.NEB.4.33.0308170032510.23558-100000@norge.freeshell.org>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, hudson wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 20:45:37 -0400, Chesucat <chesucat@freeshell.org>
> wrote:
>
>
> hey...are the people nicer in python newsgroups?
Yes! They are very friendly and very helpful, as long as you don't try to
re-invent the 'wheel' so to speak!;-) Python is very structured and
modularized!
chesucat
--
chesucat@sdf.lonestar.org
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org
If a 6600 used paper tape instead of core memory, it would use up tape
at about 30 miles/second.
-- Grishman, Assembly Language Programming
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:06:57 -0500
From: "Eric J. Roode" <REMOVEsdnCAPS@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: peace and good night
Message-Id: <Xns93D9EB186D36Asdn.comcast@206.127.4.25>
-----BEGIN xxx SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote in
news:1sttjvguh4dg1n7qspcscfiob3iiuoodru@4ax.com:
>>Compared to the people in the "C" newsgroup, we are angles wearing
>>silk gloves.
>
> without a doubt...I am sure ;-)
No, really.
Go into comp.lang.c and ask something like:
Why doesn't the following code print 5? It should print 5, not 6!
i = 4;
i = i++;
printf("%d\n", i);
Okay, I'm kidding. Don't really do that; it's unbearably rude. But if you
were to do that, you would have your ass flamed to within an inch of your
life. Really.
I hung out in the C newsgroups for years before even learning Perl. (If
you look in the acknowledgements for the C FAQ, you'll find my name).
They're pretty hard on people who ask inane FAQs. *And They're Right To Be
That Way.* Imho.
- --
Eric
$_ = reverse sort $ /. r , qw p ekca lre uJ reh
ts p , map $ _. $ " , qw e p h tona e and print
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 23:29:35 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: peace and good night
Message-Id: <958ujv4go4hs0rv7592mvqs9lo51fmon34@4ax.com>
>>>Compared to the people in the "C" newsgroup, we are angles wearing
>>>silk gloves.
>>
>> without a doubt...I am sure ;-)
>
>No, really.
>
oh...I know...they are famous for only talking pure C
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:19:46 +1000
From: "Gregory Toomey" <NOSPAM@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure
Message-Id: <bhml7i$129gr$1@ID-202028.news.uni-berlin.de>
"hudson" <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> wrote in message
news:r3utjvsd57vf8g2gl888tbtlpvf5t0ljn1@4ax.com...
> I enjoy perl hacking.
>
> I enjoy the internet and learning about things like http, soap, cgi,
> etc.
>
> It is for my own enjoyment.
So do I.
>
> And I have had some good feedback from some people here...a little
> help to do things better. Those that helped me, thank you. And once or
> twice I tried to help others (I posted under some other nicks before,
> steve or steve in ny recently, so don't bother looking for all those I
> helped...;-)
If you dont want to use cgi.pm, you can probably get away with
http://cgi-lib.berkeley.edu/ instead.
I often use cgi-lib.pl as it takes a lot less time to load, and with cgi
response time can be important.
gtoomey
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:03:29 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure
Message-Id: <i23ujvc73apo9a17pmnie266b5cqrlqqe2@4ax.com>
On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:19:46 +1000, "Gregory Toomey"
<NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote:
>If you dont want to use cgi.pm, you can probably get away with
>http://cgi-lib.berkeley.edu/ instead.
>I often use cgi-lib.pl as it takes a lot less time to load, and with cgi
>response time can be important.
Hey...thanks Greg!
From the website:
"The cgi-lib.pl library has become the de facto standard library for
creating Common Gateway Interface (CGI) scripts in the Perl language."
OK...I will look into it ;-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:12:27 -0500
From: Tony Curtis <tony_curtis32@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure
Message-Id: <87ptj51184.fsf@limey.hpcc.uh.edu>
>> On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:03:29 -0700,
>> hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com> said:
> On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 11:19:46 +1000, "Gregory Toomey"
> <NOSPAM@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> If you dont want to use cgi.pm, you can probably get
>> away with http://cgi-lib.berkeley.edu/ instead. I
>> often use cgi-lib.pl as it takes a lot less time to
>> load, and with cgi response time can be important.
> Hey...thanks Greg!
> From the website:
> "The cgi-lib.pl library has become the de facto standard
> library for creating Common Gateway Interface (CGI)
> scripts in the Perl language."
Now look at the modification date at the bottom...
cgi-lib is essentially still perl4. Which is not to say
that newer is always better, but in this case, CGI.pm
really is your best choice unless you're experimenting for
yourself in a hermetically sealed environment.
hth
t
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 22:18:59 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: perl hacking for fun and pleasure
Message-Id: <iv3ujv41n315ou09629gfh96aep93gf00n@4ax.com>
>Now look at the modification date at the bottom...
>
>cgi-lib is essentially still perl4. Which is not to say
>that newer is always better, but in this case, CGI.pm
>really is your best choice unless you're experimenting for
>yourself in a hermetically sealed environment.
>
OK...let's forget about this and just talk about perl hacking for fun
and pleasure ;-)
much better........all this nonsense and bad karma is getting everyone
nowhere fast
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:33:31 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: perl zombies
Message-Id: <091ujv0paucupa9mfhcghkjpbhijnv23qe@4ax.com>
Randal, you missed the whole point of Mark's thread. His point was
learning what is under the hood is a good thing and all this talk of
not reinventing the wheel stops people from doing that.
Think, man...this is all about knowledge and understanding, not just
doing the "right thing"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:51:32 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: perl zombies
Message-Id: <slrnbjtrdk.c94.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
ctcgag@hotmail.com <ctcgag@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Many people who have much knowledge and experience get frustrated when
> ignorami request help, and then spurn the help because it doesn't
> matche the inquisitors mindset.
Another one for my "insightful quote" file.
Thanks.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:50:34 -0700
From: "David Oswald" <spamblock@junkmail.com>
Subject: Signal to noise ratio
Message-Id: <vju2kcif3n8m21@corp.supernews.com>
Folks, I first want to thank all of the experts who have helped me along my
way toward crawling up from the ranks of Perl initiate to Perl novice (I
consider that growth). I couldn't have improved myself so quickly (nor
recognized how much longer and more pleasing the journey will be) without
your commentaries, without studying the documents both online and in paper
form that you have written, and without the help of your websites and Usenet
posts. Those of you who participate most actively in this Usenet group, and
in the Perl community in general, are appreciated and respected by those of
us who understand professionalism and the kind of widsom that can only come
from experience and adherence to the very rules of thumb that have made Perl
what it is today.
I feel that we have all allowed ourselves to be dragged down in a way that
diminishes the impact of our efforts to turn the gears of the Perl machine
forward in the direction of progress.
For me and probably a strong majority of this group's users, the group is
about a quest for knowledge, the honing of skills, the learning of the
conventions of Perl society (both social interaction and social
engineering), and to a large degree, personal satisfaction through progress.
We fall short by allowing the signal to noise ratio to go to that of CB in
the 70's. Hudson's posts have prompted a flurry of Usenet activity. Some
of that has been justifiable and essential to ensure that the collective
Perl machine stays properly lubricated free of sand and grime that would
gunk up the gears. But but just as a photographer uses a clean cloth to
remove specks of dust from his lens, we should exercise care in dusting the
lens of this macroscope (pun intended). A photographer knows that blowing
on a lens directly, or cleaning it with a dusty cloth will further injure
it, rather than achieving the desired effect.
The Hudson topic received the proper cleaning and maintenance many posts
ago, and the rest has been an exercise in cleaning with a dirty cloth. The
Hudson posts, and assorted replies now total in excess of 150. Hudson
himself is responsible for over 70. That is rediculous.
We don't want another "Matt's messed up script archive" working away at
gunking up the gears and dusting up the lens. But it's time to remember
that 99.9% of the script-kiddies lose interest and give up when they run out
of twinkies and Usenet adreneline, or when they bring their ISP's server
down with an accidental fork-bomb or security breech. Kicking against the
pricks is painful, swimming upstream tiring. Those who chose not to learn
the painful lessons will burn out and blow away in the wind. "Matt's" is
what we all want to prevent from happening. But if we spend more time
cleaning than running, we're lost.
So let's move on with what we are here for, and pay no attention to the
phoney behind the curtain. His magic is a hoax.
Dave
--
DJO
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 03:05:33 -0700
From: hudson <scripts_you_know_the_drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: Signal to noise ratio
Message-Id: <dpkujvg9b3hcrff3kt5ioo0l4hkau2cj2p@4ax.com>
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:50:34 -0700, "David Oswald"
<spamblock@junkmail.com> wrote:
>The
>Hudson posts, and assorted replies now total in excess of 150. Hudson
>himself is responsible for over 70. That is rediculous.
very sorry...man...!!!
don't worry....I got over it and won't be posting so much from now on
;-)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:59:56 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Message-Id: <3F18A600.3040306@rochester.rr.com>
Ron wrote:
> Tried this code get a server 500 error.
>
> Anyone know what's wrong with it?
>
> if $DayName eq "Select a Day" or $RouteName eq "Select A Route") {
(---^
> dienice("Please use the back button on your browser to fill out the Day
> & Route fields.");
> }
...
> Ron
...
--
Bob Walton
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 5376
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