[23152] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5373 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Aug 16 14:10:40 2003
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:10:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 16 Aug 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5373
Today's topics:
Hudson River <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Hudson River <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: Hudson River (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Hudson River <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: Hudson River (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Hudson River <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: Hudson River <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Perl and recursive copying? (James Willmore)
Re: regex diffs between perl 5.6.1 and 5.8.0? (Jay Tilton)
Re: soap, etc <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: soap, etc <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: soap, etc <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: soap, etc <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Re: <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:17:13 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Hudson River
Message-Id: <bhl0al$dm3u$1@ID-184292.news.uni-berlin.de>
As some of you may remember, a few months ago I claimed that it's not
motivated to consider the use of CGI.pm compulsory in every CGI
script, and I have studied the flood of messages from Hudson in the
light of that.
I'm not impressed by Hudson's way to make his point(s). At the same
time, I just don't understand why the regulars, who so strongly
advocate the use of modules in general and CGI.pm in particular,
provoke such reactions over and over again. It's a mystery to me why
some people here make such a fuss about the fact that some of us
sometimes choose to parse form data using a few lines of own code
instead of using CGI.pm. You are lousy missionaries. ;-)
The advantages in principle with reusing code, and hence using
modules, is obvious to every sensible programmer, both beginners and
'gurus'. But hey, some of you need to relax a bit.
At the time when I was under fire, Randal asked: "Why do you keep
challenging me EVERY TIME I say something to you?" and my reply was:
> I think it has something to do with the way you say it. You *say*
> or *tell* in a way that I sometimes find patronizing. If you want
> to avoid being "challenged", try to *explain* and *convince*
> instead. Unfortunately you are not the only one who occationally
> uses a rather aggressive arguing style, Randal; it rather seems to
> be part of the culture in this group. I don't like that part. It's
> unnecessary. It's provocative to me, so I react.
That reply summarizes quite well what I'm trying to say with this post.
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:26:44 -0700
From: Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: Hudson River
Message-Id: <45qsjvo7co8lg77rsunf7rei9lv4l2jod3@4ax.com>
hey...I think that's sums up how I feel...I got a bit defensive at people
telling me there is only one way and then starting to call me names. Maybe I
over reacted a little. But I didn't coming looking for a fight (I came here
looking to talk about Perl, that is all).
I'll look at the rest of the posts later. I've never been flamed before, so it
should be interesting ;-)
Anyway, thanks for posting this.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 03:02:58 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Hudson River
Message-Id: <1e6ac79ab4b0c4ac29538cde38e3a5ce@news.teranews.com>
>>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> writes:
Gunnar> At the time when I was under fire, Randal asked: "Why do you keep
Gunnar> challenging me EVERY TIME I say something to you?" and my reply was:
>> I think it has something to do with the way you say it. You *say*
>> or *tell* in a way that I sometimes find patronizing. If you want
>> to avoid being "challenged", try to *explain* and *convince*
>> instead. Unfortunately you are not the only one who occationally
>> uses a rather aggressive arguing style, Randal; it rather seems to
>> be part of the culture in this group. I don't like that part. It's
>> unnecessary. It's provocative to me, so I react.
Gunnar> That reply summarizes quite well what I'm trying to say with this post.
And this summarizes the positions of the regulars here:
Get real! This is a discussion group, not a helpdesk. You post
something -- we discuss its implications. If the discussion happens
to answer a question you've asked, that's incidental. If you post a
question that implies that you've got a problem finding answers to
trivial questions in the manual, then it is perfectly reasonable for
us to discuss how to do that.
Just to be fair. :)
print "Just another Perl hacker,"
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 11:15:21 -0700
From: Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: Hudson River
Message-Id: <b3tsjv8j9tb61rq0l8cb648iqedlrbep83@4ax.com>
hey...if you go back to my original post, all I was saying is hey...I think this
is a really neat way to do soap over http. I actually wasn't asking for help but
sharing what I discovered and wanted to discuss it ;-)
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 03:02:58 GMT, merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
wrote:
>>>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> writes:
>
>Gunnar> At the time when I was under fire, Randal asked: "Why do you keep
>Gunnar> challenging me EVERY TIME I say something to you?" and my reply was:
>
>>> I think it has something to do with the way you say it. You *say*
>>> or *tell* in a way that I sometimes find patronizing. If you want
>>> to avoid being "challenged", try to *explain* and *convince*
>>> instead. Unfortunately you are not the only one who occationally
>>> uses a rather aggressive arguing style, Randal; it rather seems to
>>> be part of the culture in this group. I don't like that part. It's
>>> unnecessary. It's provocative to me, so I react.
>
>Gunnar> That reply summarizes quite well what I'm trying to say with this post.
>
>And this summarizes the positions of the regulars here:
>
> Get real! This is a discussion group, not a helpdesk. You post
> something -- we discuss its implications. If the discussion happens
> to answer a question you've asked, that's incidental. If you post a
> question that implies that you've got a problem finding answers to
> trivial questions in the manual, then it is perfectly reasonable for
> us to discuss how to do that.
>
>Just to be fair. :)
>
>print "Just another Perl hacker,"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 03:47:56 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Hudson River
Message-Id: <ecbcc0b8760c096cab269174d706c7a6@news.teranews.com>
>>>>> "Hudson" == Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
Hudson> hey...if you go back to my original post, all I was saying is
Hudson> hey...I think this is a really neat way to do soap over
Hudson> http. I actually wasn't asking for help but sharing what I
Hudson> discovered and wanted to discuss it ;-)
And you got a discussion. Why are you then surprised?
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:05:18 -0700
From: Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: Hudson River
Message-Id: <o20tjv0hau0eea79l9a9cnim3pvbi987jc@4ax.com>
boy, did I ever get a discussion!
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 03:47:56 GMT, merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
wrote:
>>>>>> "Hudson" == Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
>
>Hudson> hey...if you go back to my original post, all I was saying is
>Hudson> hey...I think this is a really neat way to do soap over
>Hudson> http. I actually wasn't asking for help but sharing what I
>Hudson> discovered and wanted to discuss it ;-)
>
>And you got a discussion. Why are you then surprised?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:25:23 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Hudson River
Message-Id: <bhlpdl$mfi7$1@ID-184292.news.uni-berlin.de>
Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Gunnar" == Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
>>>>>> writes:
> Gunnar> At the time when I was under fire, Randal asked: "Why do
> Gunnar> you keep challenging me EVERY TIME I say something to you?"
> Gunnar> and my reply was:
<reply snipped>
> Gunnar> That reply summarizes quite well what I'm trying to say
> Gunnar> with this post.
>
> And this summarizes the positions of the regulars here:
>
> Get real! This is a discussion group, not a helpdesk. You post
> something -- we discuss its implications. If the discussion
> happens to answer a question you've asked, that's incidental. If
> you post a question that implies that you've got a problem finding
> answers to trivial questions in the manual, then it is perfectly
> reasonable for us to discuss how to do that.
I agree on that. During the months I have been active here, I have
learned, not just to 'endure', but also to appreciate the phenomenon
you just described. Actually, those 'unexpected discussions' make this
group much more interesting than else would have been the case.
What I don't like is the attempts occationally to brutally enforce
certain opinions. Talking for me, that tactic just have the reverse
effect. Not to mention the floods of non-technical messages it causes,
of course...
This is a great discussion group. One moment's reflection once in a
while, before clicking the send button, might make it even better.
> Just to be fair. :)
Right. No problem. ;-)
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: 16 Aug 2003 09:28:16 -0700
From: jwillmore@cyberia.com (James Willmore)
Subject: Re: Perl and recursive copying?
Message-Id: <e0160815.0308160828.114629e@posting.google.com>
tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan) wrote in message news:<slrnbjramu.alj.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>...
> Lexical variables are the ones that are _easy_ to understand.
>
> It is package variables that are harder to understand.
>
> Use the easy-to-understand kind whenever you can.
>
>
> See also:
>
> "Coping with Scoping":
>
> http://perl.plover.com/FAQs/Namespaces.html
Thanks for the direction,
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 10:30:29 GMT
From: tiltonj@erols.com (Jay Tilton)
Subject: Re: regex diffs between perl 5.6.1 and 5.8.0?
Message-Id: <3f3e07c1.393636538@news.erols.com>
Patrick Flaherty <Patrick_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
: In article <3f3c9ebc.301200988@news.erols.com>, Jay Tilton says...
: >Patrick Flaherty <Patrick_member@newsguy.com> wrote:
: >
: >: Back in 5.6.1, the following succeeded in stripping out all x1a garbage chars
: >: from a set of files:
: >:
: >: perl -p0777 -i.bu -e 's/\X1a+$//g' house.lis
: >:
: >: I run the same thing under 5.8.0 and it has no effect.
: >
: >Case matters. "\X1a" is not the same thing as "\x1a".
: >"\X" in a regex has its own special meaning.
:
: Actually my original code _is_ a lower-case x. The upper case in the above was
: some stuff I was experimenting with. So I don't think this is the problem I'm
: having.
Then I'm stumped. As far as that code goes, there should be no
difference between 5.6.1 and 5.8.0.
The only reason I can see that the code would not strip \x1a
characters from the ends of lines is if the lines have no \x1a at
their ends.
It's time for a more rigorous regression test and a hard look at your
data file.
As a complete WAG, you might investigate binmode(), which became
significant on all platforms with Perl 5.8.0.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:04:47 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: soap, etc
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308161159060.3731@lxplus005.cern.ch>
On Sat, Aug 16, Uri Guttman inscribed on the eternal scroll:
> >>>>> "H" == Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
[...]
> but your code is poorly written. you don't seem to want to learn better
> style.
I'm tuning out of this thread, but [OT] Google thought this was
appropriate: http://blech-schilder.de/461450.htm
------------------------------
Date: 16 Aug 2003 14:28:57 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: soap, etc
Message-Id: <bhlf39$6sb$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach Alan J. Flavell:
> On Sat, Aug 16, Uri Guttman inscribed on the eternal scroll:
>
>> >>>>> "H" == Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
>
> [...]
>> but your code is poorly written. you don't seem to want to learn better
>> style.
>
> I'm tuning out of this thread, but [OT] Google thought this was
> appropriate: http://blech-schilder.de/461450.htm
Hilarious! :-) No wonder he refuses to use the available Perl modules.
After all, they yet have to proof their usefulness for creating
'Blechschilder' (metal plates).
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:14:58 -0700
From: Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: soap, etc
Message-Id: <ik0tjv4v9r0b75bcjmi4q2l2b76j79necd@4ax.com>
hudson soap?
no worries...I will probably change my nick to Pacific or something like that if
I ever return here ;-)
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:04:47 +0200, "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
wrote:
>On Sat, Aug 16, Uri Guttman inscribed on the eternal scroll:
>
>> >>>>> "H" == Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com> writes:
>
>[...]
>> but your code is poorly written. you don't seem to want to learn better
>> style.
>
>I'm tuning out of this thread, but [OT] Google thought this was
>appropriate: http://blech-schilder.de/461450.htm
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:17:10 -0700
From: Hudson <scripts_you-know-the-drill_@hudsonscripting.com>
Subject: Re: soap, etc
Message-Id: <4o0tjvg2pquqpc11m7jldldtkk52lv5jsb@4ax.com>
actually, when I first came here I think I really just wanted to show off what I
discovered and see if anyone had any hints...but it kind of went downhill from
there...
On 16 Aug 2003 06:32:20 GMT, "Tassilo v. Parseval"
<tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>Also sprach Hudson:
>
>> well...I would say good and bad. I love using modules for sockets,
>> etc. But it is frustrating that it is so hard to find a simple example
>> on how to do a soap call without Soap::Lite...this is very easy stuff,
>> I think...and there is no need for a module here.
>
>Why do you need an example at all if doing SOAP by hand is 'easy stuff'?
>What you write is self-contradictory.
>
>Tassilo
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:59:56 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Message-Id: <3F18A600.3040306@rochester.rr.com>
Ron wrote:
> Tried this code get a server 500 error.
>
> Anyone know what's wrong with it?
>
> if $DayName eq "Select a Day" or $RouteName eq "Select A Route") {
(---^
> dienice("Please use the back button on your browser to fill out the Day
> & Route fields.");
> }
...
> Ron
...
--
Bob Walton
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 5373
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