[23128] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5349 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Aug 12 18:15:41 2003
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:15:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 12 Aug 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 5349
Today's topics:
Windows user <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Re: Windows user <trammell+usenet@hypersloth.invalid>
Re: Windows user (Sam Holden)
Re: Windows user <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Re: Windows user <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Re: Windows user <emschwar@pobox.com>
Re: Windows user (Sam Holden)
Re: Windows user <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Re: Windows user <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Re: Windows user <mothra@nowhereatall.com>
Re: Windows user <trammell+usenet@hypersloth.invalid>
Re: Windows user (Tad McClellan)
Re: Windows user <emschwar@pobox.com>
Re: Windows user (Tad McClellan)
Re: Windows user <abigail@abigail.nl>
Re: Windows user (Sam Holden)
Re: <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100
From: "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Subject: Windows user
Message-Id: <bhb5r6$102c8s$1@ID-150435.news.uni-berlin.de>
Hello,
I'm a Windows user.
I upgraded to 5.8.0 and now my CPAN isn't working, as in,
perl -MCPAN -e "YOUR::MODNAME"
It just pauses for a few moments and then returns to the command prompt.
I have installed, uninstalled, re-installed CPAN using the ppm, but no
difference.
Any ideas?
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:01:30 +0000 (UTC)
From: "John J. Trammell" <trammell+usenet@hypersloth.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbji7ba.ht0.trammell+usenet@hypersloth.el-swifto.com.invalid>
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> I'm a Windows user.
>
> I upgraded to 5.8.0 and now my CPAN isn't working, as in,
>
> perl -MCPAN -e "YOUR::MODNAME"
>
> It just pauses for a few moments and then returns to the command prompt.
>
> I have installed, uninstalled, re-installed CPAN using the ppm, but no
> difference.
>
> Any ideas?
>
I've found that reading the documentation helps on occasion.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Aug 2003 17:08:04 GMT
From: sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbji7nk.27s.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm a Windows user.
>
> I upgraded to 5.8.0 and now my CPAN isn't working, as in,
>
> perl -MCPAN -e "YOUR::MODNAME"
>
> It just pauses for a few moments and then returns to the command prompt.
That's what it should so.
>
> I have installed, uninstalled, re-installed CPAN using the ppm, but no
> difference.
perl -MCPAN -e "install YOUR::MODNAME"
might actually do something...
--
Sam Holden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:11:23 +0100
From: "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <bhbakd$106u33$1@ID-150435.news.uni-berlin.de>
John J. Trammell wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus
> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>> I'm a Windows user.
>>
>> I upgraded to 5.8.0 and now my CPAN isn't working, as in,
>>
>> perl -MCPAN -e "YOUR::MODNAME"
>>
>> It just pauses for a few moments and then returns to the command
>> prompt.
>>
>> I have installed, uninstalled, re-installed CPAN using the ppm, but
>> no difference.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>
> I've found that reading the documentation helps on occasion.
I *was* reading documentation.
http://www.verysimple.com/scripts/support_modules_windows.html
<quote>
Option 2 is to use the MCPAN feature that is built into Perl. To do
that, you need to have already done Option 1, because MCPAN still
requires nmake to be installed on your machine. so, at the command line,
you type:
perl -MCPAN -e "YOUR::MODNAME"
(substitute "YOUR::MODNAME" with the name of the mod you're installing,
of course) The first time you run this utility, it will ask if you are
ready to continue with the manual configuration. Unless you know your
networking stuff pretty well, i'd just hit No at this point and let Perl
auto-configure it for you. After that it will attempt to load the module
from CPAN and install it. It will look for required modules and try to
install those for you as well. </quote>
I've heard not being a snotty bastard helps on occasion.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:12:47 +0100
From: "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <bhban0$vv5cj$1@ID-150435.news.uni-berlin.de>
Sam Holden wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus
> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> perl -MCPAN -e "install YOUR::MODNAME"
>
> might actually do something...
Unlike the previous post, this one usefully contributes to my
understanding.
Doofus is grateful to Sam Holden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:27:15 -0600
From: Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <eto4r0mu3y4.fsf@wormtongue.emschwar>
"doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> writes:
> I *was* reading documentation.
>
> http://www.verysimple.com/scripts/support_modules_windows.html
That's the wrong documentation. There's no reason to look on some
random webpage somewhere if what you need is on your own hard drive:
perldoc CPAN
You should always read the local documentation before trying to look
something up on the web, and if you do look up something on the web,
I'd recommend trying to find a site that's slightly more professional
than that one. http://www.perldoc.com/ is one such.
> I've heard not being a snotty bastard helps on occasion.
When people have correct documentation on their own hard drive, and
instead of reading it, go out and choose a website that offers CGI
scripts that give instructions that are just plain wrong, a little
snottiness is indicated. If you didn't know about perldoc, then read
'perldoc perl', and chalk the rest up to experience.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Aug 2003 18:44:55 GMT
From: sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbjidd7.3lt.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:12:47 +0100, doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> Sam Holden wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus
>> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>
>> perl -MCPAN -e "install YOUR::MODNAME"
>>
>> might actually do something...
>
> Unlike the previous post, this one usefully contributes to my
> understanding.
Being pointed to the correct documentation (via perldoc) when you
were using inaccurate documentation seems like a much more useful
contribution to your understanding than spoon feeding.
--
Sam Holden
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:50:16 +0100
From: "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <bhbcta$vqi08$1@ID-150435.news.uni-berlin.de>
Eric Schwartz wrote:
> "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> writes:
>> I *was* reading documentation.
>>
>> http://www.verysimple.com/scripts/support_modules_windows.html
>
> That's the wrong documentation. There's no reason to look on some
> random webpage somewhere if what you need is on your own hard drive:
It's a document. That makes it documentation.
If you don't like it, go find yourself another language.
>
> perldoc CPAN
>
> You should always read the local documentation before trying to look
> something up on the web
Poppycock. The local documentation has *nothing* on installing modules
on windows. As far as those self-proclaimed unix bigots are concerned,
Windows doesn't even exist.
Besides, the original fart-faced fustilarian, a regular Mr. RTFM, who
made the quip in the first place could have mentioned perldoc CPAN.
Why do you think I went looking on the web in the first place.
>, and if you do look up something on the web,
> I'd recommend trying to find a site that's slightly more professional
> than that one. http://www.perldoc.com/ is one such.
www.google.com. Is that professional enough. Search for "installing perl
modules on windows". It seems plenty of others don't agree with you.
And now, does perldoc.com mention a damn thing about how to use make on
windows. Is perldoc.com likely to be any more concerned about windows
users that whatever dumb fuck in the perlsville thought up using 'make'
in the first place?
Mostly, I've found that as a windows user, the only hope of getting help
about installing anything open source is from outside the open source
sneering community and their secret campaign to prosceletyze linux by
making using their code on windows pretty damb impossible.
>
>> I've heard not being a snotty bastard helps on occasion.
>
> When people have correct documentation on their own hard drive, and
> instead of reading it, go out and choose a website that offers CGI
> scripts that give instructions that are just plain wrong, a little
> snottiness is indicated. If you didn't know about perldoc, then read
> 'perldoc perl', and chalk the rest up to experience.
I knew about perldoc, but not perldoc CPAN. To me the option looked like
MCPAN all one word. See, sometimes people just need a heads up.
Listen, you could refer me to the whole vast sea of domentation out
there but fact is, Sam Holden used three words to give me what I need.
What is comp.lang.perl.misc for?
Is it so Mr. RTFM can iterate RTFM and thereby, we presume, make himself
feel good, or is it so people can actually offer one another useful
information.
Why would you not want to help people when it is so easy to do so. If
you don't want to, simply ignore the post. I mean come on, what the fuck
is this newsgroup for?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:07:51 +0100
From: "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <bhbdu9$10ion7$1@ID-150435.news.uni-berlin.de>
Sam Holden wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:12:47 +0100, doofus
> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>> Sam Holden wrote:
>>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus
>>> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> perl -MCPAN -e "install YOUR::MODNAME"
>>>
>>> might actually do something...
>>
>> Unlike the previous post, this one usefully contributes to my
>> understanding.
>
> Being pointed to the correct documentation (via perldoc) when you
> were using inaccurate documentation seems like a much more useful
> contribution to your understanding than spoon feeding.
Oh well, fuck you then.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:18:16 -0700
From: "Mothra" <mothra@nowhereatall.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <3f37ee75$1@usenet.ugs.com>
[snipped]
> > Being pointed to the correct documentation (via perldoc) when you
> > were using inaccurate documentation seems like a much more useful
> > contribution to your understanding than spoon feeding.
>
> Oh well, fuck you then.
Now that is uncalled for.
This individual took his time to answer your question then
stressed the importence of using correct documentation and
you treat him like that.
For shame :(
Mothra
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:32:37 +0000 (UTC)
From: "John J. Trammell" <trammell+usenet@hypersloth.invalid>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbjig6l.l8q.trammell+usenet@hypersloth.el-swifto.com.invalid>
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:11:23 +0100, doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> John J. Trammell wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus
>> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm a Windows user.
>>>
>>> I upgraded to 5.8.0 and now my CPAN isn't working, as in,
>>>
>>> perl -MCPAN -e "YOUR::MODNAME"
>>>
>>> It just pauses for a few moments and then returns to the command
>>> prompt.
>>>
>>> I have installed, uninstalled, re-installed CPAN using the ppm, but
>>> no difference.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>
>> I've found that reading the documentation helps on occasion.
>
> I *was* reading documentation.
>
[link to incorrect docs snipped]
Then why didn't you say so? If you had just said "I'm following
the instructions at http://foo.com/bad-doc.html", we could have
skipped all this.
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#beprecise
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#examples
Feel free to flame me some more if you want to vent. Maybe it will
(1) convince someone else to search the available docs before posting,
or (2) post a precise question.
<garment type="underwear" material="asbestos">
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:04:03 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbjii1j.1mv.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> If you don't like it, go find yourself another language.
You could always do that as well you know...
> what the fuck
> is this newsgroup for?
It is not for vulgarity, so move along now.
*plonk*
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 14:08:04 -0600
From: Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <etoptjaprkr.fsf@wormtongue.emschwar>
"doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> writes:
> It's a document. That makes it documentation.
I didn't say it wasn't documentation, I said it was the *wrong*
documentation.
> If you don't like it, go find yourself another language.
Um... right.
>> perldoc CPAN
>>
>> You should always read the local documentation before trying to look
>> something up on the web
>
> Poppycock. The local documentation has *nothing* on installing modules
> on windows. As far as those self-proclaimed unix bigots are concerned,
> Windows doesn't even exist.
Then you must have a broken installation of Perl. My copy of the docs
explain how to install modules, which is pretty much the same on
Windows as it is elsewhere. If you don't have a compiler, then you
can't install XS modules with CPAN, but that's not a Windows-specific
problem-- people who live on real live UNIX machines like Solaris or
HP-UX also don't have C compilers by default.
> Besides, the original fart-faced fustilarian, a regular Mr. RTFM, who
> made the quip in the first place could have mentioned perldoc CPAN.
Which is why *I* mentioned it.
> Why do you think I went looking on the web in the first place.
Because you didn't know about perldoc or CPAN, which is why I brought
them up. Sheesh, try a do a guy a favour sometime, and this is your
idea of 'thanks'.
>>, and if you do look up something on the web,
>> I'd recommend trying to find a site that's slightly more professional
>> than that one. http://www.perldoc.com/ is one such.
>
> www.google.com. Is that professional enough.
No. It's a search engine, not a website purporting to hand out CGI
scripts that are bad rewrites of Matt Wright's perl4-based garbage.
> Search for "installing perl
> modules on windows". It seems plenty of others don't agree with you.
I did. The first link returned was
<URL:http://www.rcbowen.com/imho/perl/modules.html>, which unlike the
one you cited, is apparently correct (I just skimmed it, so bugs may
lurk underneath). Anyway, Google is a poor measure of quality; its
PageRank algorithm rates sites based on who links to them, not how
correct or useful they are. If you get enough people who don't know
any better linking to a site, its Google rank will rise anyway.
> And now, does perldoc.com mention a damn thing about how to use make on
> windows. Is perldoc.com likely to be any more concerned about windows
> users that whatever dumb fuck in the perlsville thought up using 'make'
> in the first place?
Does cursing make you feel superior or something? 'make' is used
because it's available anywhere you have a C compiler (including, I
might add, Windows), and because it's been used forever, and is the
best and most portable way to ensure that software is built
correctly. What would you have them use? Ant? Jam?
> Mostly, I've found that as a windows user, the only hope of getting help
> about installing anything open source is from outside the open source
> sneering community and their secret campaign to prosceletyze linux by
> making using their code on windows pretty damb impossible.
I'd guess at least half the people using Perl on this newsgroup are
using Windows, and nobody gives them crap about it. Sounds like you
have a rather large chip on your shoulder you need to get rid of,
because it's not helping you when you ask for help and then curse at
the people who try to give it to you.
> I knew about perldoc, but not perldoc CPAN. To me the option looked like
> MCPAN all one word. See, sometimes people just need a heads up.
So I tell you this, and instead of "Thanks, I didn't know about that,"
you respond with curses and insults? Furrfu. 'perldoc perlrun' while
you're at it. perltact would be a good module to look at, if it
really existed.
> Listen, you could refer me to the whole vast sea of domentation out
> there but fact is, Sam Holden used three words to give me what I need.
And I gave you more information so that next time you'd know where to
look, and would be able to solve your own problems faster.
> What is comp.lang.perl.misc for?
It is for discussing miscellaneous questions related to the Perl
language. It is not your personal helpdesk, although most of us are
happy to help out anyway, if we can.
> Why would you not want to help people when it is so easy to do so. If
> you don't want to, simply ignore the post. I mean come on, what the fuck
> is this newsgroup for?
It is NOT for cursing people who try to give you help. If someone
asks questions that are in the documentation, we try to refer them to
the documentation for three reasons:
1) If everybody keeps asking questions that are already in the docs,
people get tired of that very quickly, and the experts who really
know their stuff will stop answering questions. Yes, this has
actually happened.
2) The next person who looks through the archives first will see the
reference to the docs, and read them, and not need to ask the
newsgroup.
3) It's a helluva lot faster to read 'perldoc <foo>' than it is to
post to a newsgroup and wait for someone on the other side of the
world to respond.
This newsgroup IS for discussing the Perl language, particularly for
sharing tips and tricks, and other esoterica. It's for asking
questions that the docs either don't answer, or answer ambiguously.
It's for sharing code, looking for improvements or comments. It's for
a lot more, as well. But it's not a substitute for reading
documentation, even if sometimes we feel generous, and help out anyway.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:00:07 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbjilan.1pl.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> As far as those self-proclaimed unix bigots are concerned,
> Windows doesn't even exist.
Unix bigots cannot help with a Windows problem because they,
by definition, have no experience with Windows.
Don't get made at them, they do not have what you are asking for.
> Mostly, I've found that as a windows user, the only hope of getting help
> about installing anything open source is from outside the open source
Then more Windows users need to join the open source movement so
that there will be volunteers to work on Windows-specific things.
So the villians who have not provided the expected level of
hand-holding are your fellow Windows programmers.
They _do_ have what you are asking for.
How's come you are not ranting on them?
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 12 Aug 2003 21:08:58 GMT
From: Abigail <abigail@abigail.nl>
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbjilra.pl.abigail@alexandra.abigail.nl>
doofus (jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com) wrote on MMMDCXXXIII September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:bhbcta$vqi08$1@ID-150435.news.uni-berlin.de>:
:) Eric Schwartz wrote:
:) > "doofus" <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> writes:
:) >> I *was* reading documentation.
:) >>
:) >> http://www.verysimple.com/scripts/support_modules_windows.html
:) >
:) > That's the wrong documentation. There's no reason to look on some
:) > random webpage somewhere if what you need is on your own hard drive:
:)
:) It's a document. That makes it documentation.
:)
:) If you don't like it, go find yourself another language.
*PLOINK*
Abigail
--
$_ = "\nrekcaH lreP rehtona tsuJ"; my $chop; $chop = sub {print chop; $chop};
$chop -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> ()
-> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> () -> ()
------------------------------
Date: 12 Aug 2003 21:17:37 GMT
From: sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Subject: Re: Windows user
Message-Id: <slrnbjimbh.5oh.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 20:07:51 +0100, doofus <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
> Sam Holden wrote:
>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 19:12:47 +0100, doofus
>> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>>> Sam Holden wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:49:39 +0100, doofus
>>>> <jim.bloggs@eudoramail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> perl -MCPAN -e "install YOUR::MODNAME"
>>>>
>>>> might actually do something...
>>>
>>> Unlike the previous post, this one usefully contributes to my
>>> understanding.
>>
>> Being pointed to the correct documentation (via perldoc) when you
>> were using inaccurate documentation seems like a much more useful
>> contribution to your understanding than spoon feeding.
>
> Oh well, fuck you then.
have fun not getting useful help.
--
Sam Holden
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 01:59:56 GMT
From: Bob Walton <bwalton@rochester.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Message-Id: <3F18A600.3040306@rochester.rr.com>
Ron wrote:
> Tried this code get a server 500 error.
>
> Anyone know what's wrong with it?
>
> if $DayName eq "Select a Day" or $RouteName eq "Select A Route") {
(---^
> dienice("Please use the back button on your browser to fill out the Day
> & Route fields.");
> }
...
> Ron
...
--
Bob Walton
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 5349
***************************************
