[22718] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4939 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon May 5 18:10:44 2003
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:10:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 5 May 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 4939
Today's topics:
Re: Re: Controlling external device with Perl <removeX_stevensx4000x@earthlinxk.next>
regex and extracting permutations <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam>
Re: regex and extracting permutations <krahnj@acm.org>
Re: regex negating a search/word <emschwar@pobox.com>
Re: Sort array of numbers <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Sort array of numbers <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: Sort array of numbers <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam>
Re: Sort array of numbers <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Sort array of numbers <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam>
Re: Sort array of numbers <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Sort array of numbers <emschwar@pobox.com>
Re: Sort array of numbers <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Re: Sort array of numbers (Sam Holden)
Re: Sort array of numbers <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: Sort array of numbers <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Re: Sort array of numbers <occitan@esperanto.org>
Re: Sort array of numbers <noreply@gunnar.cc>
use LWP; and all it's children <samj@austarmetro.com.au>
Re: waste of time (Tad McClellan)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 19:31:36 GMT
From: mbS <removeX_stevensx4000x@earthlinxk.next>
Subject: Re: Re: Controlling external device with Perl
Message-Id: <h8kdbv47aoa995lb1rm1s9rln5fhc9i5k6@4ax.com>
On or around Mon, 05 May 2003 10:10:04 +0200, there was a message,
possibly from upro <upro@gmx.net>, as follows:
>mbS <removeX_stevensx4000x@earthlinxk.next> writes:
>
>> On or around Sun, 04 May 2003 19:36:38 +0200, there was a message,
>> possibly from upro <upro@gmx.net>, as follows:
>>
>>>I meant sonething like witching on and off a lamp with a self-made
>>>circuit, which I give signals from the parallel port (as you can read
>>>in the coffee-howto). I use Linux, and I'd have to switch on and off
>>>one electricity in one of the pins from the parallel port...
>>
>> I've controlled labs with a 488 bus/board and with parallel ports,
>> by calling assembler routines through C. You should be able to call
>> C functions from Perl through the Extension Interface,
>> so there is your hook.
>>
>> (Places like National Instruments used to
>> sell C libraries for controlling devices in real time, too.)
>>
>> You need to set up a little testing setup for the lines coming from
>> the back of your computer so you can test when you've turned something
>> on or off. A cheap voltmeter and a 'break out box' will do.
>>
>> Probably best to get everything working with C and assembler
>> before trying to hook the result into Perl. (I havn't actually tried
>> this with Perl, but have done it with high level things like X Windows
>> and MS windows). You'll need documents
>> for the internal addresses of device controllers used by your Op
>> system so you can access them with the assembler calls.
>>
>> Then, at the lamp end, you need some kind of amplifier and
>> switch to respond to the lines coming from the computer. More
>> complex devices may have their own specialized controllers. It's all
>> conceptually very simple, but it sucks down many hours while you try
>> to get things to actually work, assembling just the right parts that
>> will work together, talking to various device techs by email, etc...
>>
>> Sound like fun?
>> HTH
>> m
>> http://www.mbstevens.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Thanks a lot for your extensive answer!
>
>My problem is that I have no knowledge of assembler, I'm bad in C and
>have no one to help me... (well, let's say, apart from NGs).
The core skills are gained by doing exactly this kind of project.
We're usually talking about just a few lines of assembler to turn
on or off a few bits at a particular address with everything else
run by C. For some projects you might be able to do it with just
'peek' and 'poke' calls in C. The C group of languages is really
necessary to learn to do things on individual PCs. Dig in.
>
>I will probably try with the few lines I found in the Coffee
>Howto. But I'll have to assemble something to see if actually
>something is getting out of the parport.
Yes. There are all sorts of specialized boards sold for controlling
things out of the back of computers. DAC boards (digital to analog
converter boards) are popular for devices that require varied voltages
and which need to send varied voltages back to the computer for
processing.
The 488 bus boards are also useful. These boards come with their own
software and instructions, so you might want to use them
instead of using assembler to hack into the parallel ports.
How you would hook that particular software into Perl might
be a different story altogether, but if it's C based, my guess is
that it will probably work.....
>
>What is a "break out box"?
It's basically just a flat board with a bunch of little screw-down
terminals, one for each of the many lines in, say, a parallel cable
or the like. You seperate the cable out into lines and attach them,
one to each terminal. Then it's easier to test with a meter. It also
makes it possible to identify each line, since each one will have a
different address for access from software. The lines coming from
the device to be controlled can also be attached to the breakout box
during testing. Very handy, but be careful -- if the device sends
back a current that's too strong you can get blown-out computer
components; so step it down.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 13:49:40 -0500
From: Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam>
Subject: regex and extracting permutations
Message-Id: <Gjyta.10769$6P6.156673@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
I am tryng to use regular exprssions to extract permutations of a
sequence into an array. Here are the parameters that I need to meet.
The sequence is in the form
ACK
SG[IL]N
SG[IUD]
[NO]S[YR]NR
etc...
where the needed function would produce teh array with the following entries
ACK
SGIN
SGLN
SGI
SGU
SGD
NSYNR
NSRNR
OSYNR
OSRNR
Additional things to consider:
- there is no limit on the number of lines that can be entered
- there is no limit on the number of letters that can be between the
brackets [ ]
- there is no limit on the number of bracketed characters per line
Thanks for your consideration on this challenge,
Ryan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 20:43:34 GMT
From: "John W. Krahn" <krahnj@acm.org>
Subject: Re: regex and extracting permutations
Message-Id: <3EB6CCE0.F670F46@acm.org>
Ryan McCarthy wrote:
>
> I am tryng to use regular exprssions to extract permutations of a
> sequence into an array. Here are the parameters that I need to meet.
>
> The sequence is in the form
>
> ACK
> SG[IL]N
> SG[IUD]
> [NO]S[YR]NR
> etc...
>
> where the needed function would produce teh array with the following entries
>
> ACK
> SGIN
> SGLN
> SGI
> SGU
> SGD
> NSYNR
> NSRNR
> OSYNR
> OSRNR
>
> Additional things to consider:
> - there is no limit on the number of lines that can be entered
> - there is no limit on the number of letters that can be between the
> brackets [ ]
> - there is no limit on the number of bracketed characters per line
$ perl -le'
@x = qw( ACK SG[IL]N SG[IUD] [NO]S[YR]NR );
for ( @x ) {
s!\[([^]]+)]!"{".join(",",split(//,$1))."}"!eg;
print for glob;
}
'
ACK
SGIN
SGLN
SGI
SGU
SGD
NSYNR
NSRNR
OSYNR
OSRNR
John
--
use Perl;
program
fulfillment
------------------------------
Date: 05 May 2003 13:32:37 -0600
From: Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: regex negating a search/word
Message-Id: <etoznm1yysq.fsf@wormtongue.emschwar>
genericax@hotmail.com (Sara) writes:
> Quite right.. Perhaps the simplest:
>
> if (defined $1)
> {do stuff}
> else
> {whine();}
That's even worse-- sometimes it will work, and then it will
mysteriously stop working, and you won't know why. You MUST test the
result of the match, as $1 and friends will remain defined from a
previous match, if one happened:
$ cat /tmp/bah.pl
#!/usr/bin/perl
$str = "this is a test";
$str =~ /this is a (\w+)/;
print "$1\n" if defined $1;
$str =~ /this is not a (\w+)/;
print "$1\n" if defined $1;
$ perl /tmp/bah.pl
test
test
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 19:03:23 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <b965o4$fssb8$1@ID-184292.news.dfncis.de>
Alan J. Flavell wrote:
> On Mon, May 5, Gunnar Hjalmarsson inscribed on the eternal scroll:
>>I don't know about you guys, but I was not born with that
>>knowledge...
>
> Everyone can make mistakes, but the respondents evidently got the
> impression that you hadn't done enough homework.
Clarification: I'm not OP. I was just commenting on behalf of a
'beginner colleague'. And I do agree that it's motivated to demand
that people make efforts to solve their problems themselves before
posting.
My point was that that can well be said without being rude or
sarcastic, especially as long as OP hasn't _repeatedly_ posted without
reasonable own efforts.
/ Gunnar
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 19:23:39 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0305051919420.24368@lxplus080.cern.ch>
On Mon, May 5, Gunnar Hjalmarsson inscribed on the eternal scroll:
> Alan J. Flavell wrote:
> > Everyone can make mistakes, but the respondents evidently got the
> > impression that you hadn't done enough homework.
>
> Clarification: I'm not OP.
Sorry, it seems I'd focussed on your actual posting and not checked
back in the thread. So let's parse it as the "generic you".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 14:02:17 -0500
From: Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <tvyta.10776$6P6.156466@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
I recall when I started perl programming, I was not entirely aware of
the extent of the perl documentation. I agree with Gunnar that there
are ways to help people other than just treating them like idiots. For
those who don't want to help all levels of perl programmers, than maybe
you could all band together and create a newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.experts.only
Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
> Alan J. Flavell wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 5, Gunnar Hjalmarsson inscribed on the eternal scroll:
>>
>>> I don't know about you guys, but I was not born with that
>>> knowledge...
>>
>>
>> Everyone can make mistakes, but the respondents evidently got the
>> impression that you hadn't done enough homework.
>
>
> Clarification: I'm not OP. I was just commenting on behalf of a
> 'beginner colleague'. And I do agree that it's motivated to demand that
> people make efforts to solve their problems themselves before posting.
>
> My point was that that can well be said without being rude or sarcastic,
> especially as long as OP hasn't _repeatedly_ posted without reasonable
> own efforts.
>
> / Gunnar
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 19:09:49 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <x78ytlus5f.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "RM" == Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> writes:
don't top post.
RM> I recall when I started perl programming, I was not entirely aware
RM> of the extent of the perl documentation. I agree with Gunnar that
RM> there are ways to help people other than just treating them like
RM> idiots. For those who don't want to help all levels of perl
RM> programmers, than maybe you could all band together and create a
RM> newsgroup comp.lang.perl.experts.only
that has been tried before. there was a group called (something like)
unix.wizards and it was meant for the tough questions from experts to be
answered by experts. so what do you think happened? all the kiddies and
newbies posted there since they wanted their problems solved by the
experts.
the ongoing response of referring them to the docs is the best
thing. sometimes it needs to be done more or less forcefully. some
newbies just don't have the 'search the docs first' habit and need to
learn it. they won't if they are not forced/encouraged/cajoled/flamed
into doing so. we have see it many times. a whine comes back, "i don't
have time to read the docs" or "i can't find the docs" or something
similar.
so if you want to volunteer to always refer newbies to the proper docs
section and tell them how to find the docs and how to use perldoc and
always do it all politely and never shirk from this responsibilty, i
applaud you. until then, keep quiet about how others do doc referrals.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 14:20:13 -0500
From: Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <gMyta.10789$6P6.156855@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>"RM" == Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> writes:
> RM> I recall when I started perl programming, I was not entirely aware
> RM> of the extent of the perl documentation. I agree with Gunnar that
> RM> there are ways to help people other than just treating them like
> RM> idiots. For those who don't want to help all levels of perl
> RM> programmers, than maybe you could all band together and create a
> so if you want to volunteer to always refer newbies to the proper docs
> section and tell them how to find the docs and how to use perldoc and
> always do it all politely and never shirk from this responsibilty, i
> applaud you. until then, keep quiet about how others do doc referrals.
If the questions posted here piss you off so much, then quit answering
them. If you are going to be a dick, dont be suprised when people call
you out on it. I'm willing to bet Gunnar doesn't spend much more time
to respond courteously to polite questions than you do to be sarcastic.
Plus, he actually helps.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 19:35:18 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <x74r49uqyx.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "RM" == Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> writes:
RM> Uri Guttman wrote:
>> so if you want to volunteer to always refer newbies to the proper docs
>> section and tell them how to find the docs and how to use perldoc and
>> always do it all politely and never shirk from this responsibilty, i
>> applaud you. until then, keep quiet about how others do doc referrals.
RM> If the questions posted here piss you off so much, then quit answering
RM> them. If you are going to be a dick, dont be suprised when people
RM> call you out on it. I'm willing to bet Gunnar doesn't spend much more
RM> time to respond courteously to polite questions than you do to be
RM> sarcastic. Plus, he actually helps.
too bad gunnar is as often wrong as he is right. not what i call a
useful source of answers even if he is polite. i would much rather get
correct answers in a gruff manner than wrong ones in a polite
manner. you may have different criteria.
and i have no issue about people calling me out. i have issues with
wankers like you who whine and then don't do anything. the best solution
is for you to try to answer things here and in the way you want to. but
of course you won't since you just whine. i have yet to see a single
whiner about answer style here *EVER* take up the yoke of answering
problems. and i have been in this group for many years. so i am willing
to bet the house on it that you won't do anything. so shut up your
whining unless you pick up the gauntlet and answer questions. otherwise
you have no rights to say anything about posting style as you contribute
nothing but noise.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: 05 May 2003 13:37:52 -0600
From: Eric Schwartz <emschwar@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <etou1c9yyjz.fsf@wormtongue.emschwar>
Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> writes:
> If the questions posted here piss you off so much, then quit answering
> them. If you are going to be a dick, dont be suprised when people
> call you out on it. I'm willing to bet Gunnar doesn't spend much more
> time to respond courteously to polite questions than you do to be
> sarcastic.
Given the ratio of people Uri has helped with Perl to those Gunnar has
helped with Perl is approximately infinity, you have very little
standing to make that remark.
> Plus, he actually helps.
Check someone's posting history on Google next time before you start
off with the ignorant remarks.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 21:56:19 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <b96ft3$fspqa$1@ID-184292.news.dfncis.de>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>"RM" == Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> writes:
> RM> If the questions posted here piss you off so much, then quit answering
> RM> them. If you are going to be a dick, dont be suprised when people
> RM> call you out on it. I'm willing to bet Gunnar doesn't spend much more
> RM> time to respond courteously to polite questions than you do to be
> RM> sarcastic. Plus, he actually helps.
>
> too bad gunnar is as often wrong as he is right. not what i call a
> useful source of answers even if he is polite.
Now, even if this wasn't actually about me, I'd like to respond.
I'm a beginner trying to help other beginners. I don't keep any stats
on how often I'm wrong, but I certainly have been corrected a few
times. Working on that.
I hope, though, that also when starting a thread of replies with an
incorrect (or more often, i hope, incomplete) answer, the resulting
exchange of messages are of some value to the quiet beginners reading
this group.
> i would much rather get correct answers in a gruff manner than
> wrong ones in a polite manner.
Are those the only options you can see, Uri?
/ Gunnar
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: 5 May 2003 20:14:30 GMT
From: sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <slrnbbdhh6.7q0.sholden@flexal.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On Mon, 05 May 2003 21:56:19 +0200,
Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> wrote:
> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>>"RM" == Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> writes:
>> RM> If the questions posted here piss you off so much, then quit answering
>> RM> them. If you are going to be a dick, dont be suprised when people
>> RM> call you out on it. I'm willing to bet Gunnar doesn't spend much more
>> RM> time to respond courteously to polite questions than you do to be
>> RM> sarcastic. Plus, he actually helps.
>>
>> too bad gunnar is as often wrong as he is right. not what i call a
>> useful source of answers even if he is polite.
>
> Now, even if this wasn't actually about me, I'd like to respond.
>
> I'm a beginner trying to help other beginners. I don't keep any stats
> on how often I'm wrong, but I certainly have been corrected a few
> times. Working on that.
>
> I hope, though, that also when starting a thread of replies with an
> incorrect (or more often, i hope, incomplete) answer, the resulting
> exchange of messages are of some value to the quiet beginners reading
> this group.
>
>> i would much rather get correct answers in a gruff manner than
>> wrong ones in a polite manner.
>
> Are those the only options you can see, Uri?
Of course in practice there are also wrong answers in a gruff manner.
But those are the only three options that exist for any length of time.
Those who start out giving correct answers in a polite manner, turn to the
dark side as people keep asking the same FAQs over and over. There are
enough people who ask their question and get their answer and then return
again and again with a new FAQ each time. Gruffness tends to result on the
part of the previously polite correct answerer - and often successfully
results in the questioner actually checking the docs before posting...
But polite correct answers are wonderful things, those people just don't
seem to survive wrong in the cesspool of FAQs that grows around them.
--
Sam Holden
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 20:25:35 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <x71xzduon5.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "GH" == Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> writes:
GH> I hope, though, that also when starting a thread of replies with an
GH> incorrect (or more often, i hope, incomplete) answer, the resulting
GH> exchange of messages are of some value to the quiet beginners reading
GH> this group.
i generally see corrections to most wrong posts here and occasionally
make them myself. i even make mistaken posts and get corrected which is
great.
>> i would much rather get correct answers in a gruff manner than
>> wrong ones in a polite manner.
GH> Are those the only options you can see, Uri?
in some ways yes. and gruff doesn't always mean nasty or smug or
whatever negative variation you want. a simple perldoc -f foo is called
gruff by some, terse by others and correct by most. i rarely see real
nasty stuff here when the going gets technical. it is almost always
triggered by newbies who don't read the group FAQ (posted regularly by
tad), rtfm, search google, read tutorials and books first, etc. they
expect to be spoon fed answers and IMMEDIATELY. usenet is a discussion
medium and not what they really want. so they get 'poor' results because
of the mismatch of their expectations and the reality of usenet.
i don't care about their opinions of me or this group. my only concern
is that accurate and useful perl discussions take place. i don't read
most posts in here. i pick and choose based on topic, others in the
thread, my mood, the weather, phase of the moon, how the chicken guts
look, etc. and i try to answer in a technical fashion that any
professional would recognize and appreciate. most newbies and flamers
here don't get that. i have a good friend who calls me for help on a
regular basis and i rip him new holes all the time. he has no problems
with it because he is a pro and knows me. all the whiners here are
typically kiddies who have no professional experience and don't
appreciate what a valuable resource this group is. i don't have to give
them anything based on that. so whining about how i choose to help here
is so useless as to be ludicrous. they have no influence or control on
me or the group. my posts are by me and from me and matter only to me. i
stand by them and i have no problem with any technical comments on
them. that is the rule of the road. too bad the whiners don't get how
difficult it is to actually help here and how appreciative they should
be to the regulars here. disrespecting them based on some non-existant
posting style rules they have in their head is counterproductive to
them. their loss and not ours. they get killfiled and the regulars
don't.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
--Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
------------------------------
Date: 5 May 2003 20:43:43 GMT
From: "Tassilo v. Parseval" <tassilo.parseval@rwth-aachen.de>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <b96idv$6j9$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Also sprach Sam Holden:
> On Mon, 05 May 2003 21:56:19 +0200,
> Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc> wrote:
>> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>> i would much rather get correct answers in a gruff manner than
>>> wrong ones in a polite manner.
>>
>> Are those the only options you can see, Uri?
>
> Of course in practice there are also wrong answers in a gruff manner.
>
> But those are the only three options that exist for any length of time.
>
> Those who start out giving correct answers in a polite manner, turn to the
> dark side as people keep asking the same FAQs over and over. There are
> enough people who ask their question and get their answer and then return
> again and again with a new FAQ each time. Gruffness tends to result on the
> part of the previously polite correct answerer - and often successfully
> results in the questioner actually checking the docs before posting...
Either that or they provoke gruffness on the side of the OP in turn.
Whether the reply will make the OP study the docs more carefully doesn't
depend so much on the reply but rather on the OP's attitude. At least this
has been my observation here within a couple of years. In any case I am
quite sure that politeness helps to keep the noise-level down.
For me there are only two sensible ways of dealing with people violating
some of the conventions. The first one is unexcitedly pointing out what
they did wrong, twice if necessary. If that doesn't help there's plan B:
ignore this particular person. Believing that gruffness can achieve
things that couldn't also be done with a more civil tone is beyond me.
> But polite correct answers are wonderful things, those people just don't
> seem to survive wrong in the cesspool of FAQs that grows around them.
Looking at some of the regulars, a few seem to have survived. When being
annoyed by too many FAQs in here, it sometimes helps to to have a glance
out into the green nature and listen to the singing birds for a few
seconds. It'll lower the blood-pressure and thus make you live longer
and more happily. ;-)
Tassilo
--
$_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
$_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:53:19 +0200
From: Daniel Pfeiffer <occitan@esperanto.org>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <20030505225319.1dc704e2.occitan@esperanto.org>
Ryan McCarthy <remccart@uiuc.edu.spam> skribis:
> I recall when I started perl programming, I was not entirely aware of=20
> the extent of the perl documentation.
Well, the natural first reflex should be "man perl". That tells you very e=
xhaustively which other man pages there are. You don't even have to be awa=
re of the perldoc command.
Sadly there are no info pages, because nobody ever bothered to write a pod2=
info or pod2texinfo -- though that should't be too hard.
--=20
coralament / best Gr=F6tens / liebe Gr=FC=DFe / best regards / elkorajn sal=
utojn
Daniel Pfeiffer
-- GPL 3: take the wind out of Palladium's sails! --
------
-- My other stuff here too, sawfish, make.pl...: --
------
-- http://dapfy.bei.t-online.de/ --
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 2003 00:00:17 +0200
From: Gunnar Hjalmarsson <noreply@gunnar.cc>
Subject: Re: Sort array of numbers
Message-Id: <b96n55$fretr$1@ID-184292.news.dfncis.de>
Tassilo v. Parseval wrote:
> Also sprach Sam Holden:
>> Gunnar Hjalmarsson wrote:
>>> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>> i would much rather get correct answers in a gruff manner
>>>> than wrong ones in a polite manner.
>>>
>>> Are those the only options you can see, Uri?
>>
>> Of course in practice there are also wrong answers in a gruff
>> manner.
>>
>> But those are the only three options that exist for any length of
>> time.
>>
>> Those who start out giving correct answers in a polite manner,
>> turn to the dark side as people keep asking the same FAQs over
>> and over. There are enough people who ask their question and get
>> their answer and then return again and again with a new FAQ each
>> time. Gruffness tends to result on the part of the previously
>> polite correct answerer - and often successfully results in the
>> questioner actually checking the docs before posting...
>
> Either that or they provoke gruffness on the side of the OP in
> turn. Whether the reply will make the OP study the docs more
> carefully doesn't depend so much on the reply but rather on the
> OP's attitude. At least this has been my observation here within a
> couple of years. In any case I am quite sure that politeness helps
> to keep the noise-level down.
>
> For me there are only two sensible ways of dealing with people
> violating some of the conventions. The first one is unexcitedly
> pointing out what they did wrong, twice if necessary. If that
> doesn't help there's plan B: ignore this particular person.
> Believing that gruffness can achieve things that couldn't also be
> done with a more civil tone is beyond me.
Yes, tone is what this is about. Your post summarizes very well my
view as well. Thanks, Tassilo.
/ Gunnar
--
Gunnar Hjalmarsson
Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 20:19:50 GMT
From: "Sam Jesse" <samj@austarmetro.com.au>
Subject: use LWP; and all it's children
Message-Id: <3eb6c765$1@news.comindico.com.au>
Hello again. I guss I am still learning the perl culture.
in this example
#!/perl -w
use strict;
use LWP::Simple;
if I replace the (use LWP::Simple;) with (use LWP;) wouldn't that use LWP
and all its childern like Simple, UserAgent, ..... etc) or do I have to
state each one thus have to know about each one's functions and it's usage?
thanks
Sam
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:22:47 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: waste of time
Message-Id: <slrnbbd3un.1nr.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
smugbuster <smugbuster@hotmail.com> wrote:
> genericax@hotmail.com (Sara) wrote in message news:<776e0325.0305020524.6b4e752a@posting.google.com>...
>> smugbuster@hotmail.com (smugbuster) wrote in message news:<677cff64.0304300948.7e8878c4@posting.google.com>...
>> > your little newsgroup or whatever you call it is a waste of time for
>> > anybody trying to learn anything new.
>> >
> Thank you all for participating in my little "sociological
> experiment." I'm doing my masters thesis on internet communication. I
> have never even visited your newsgroup before I posted my original
> message.
>
> Sorry to have deceived you! I'm sure that you are all very dedicated
> perl programmers and share your knowledge openly.
If you are interested in newsgroup society, then you should
also have a look at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
wherein the "why"s behind the "what"s are often revealed.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 4939
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