[22158] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4379 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jan 10 14:16:02 2003
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 11:15:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 10 Jan 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 4379
Today's topics:
suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines (Tad McClellan)
Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines <uri@stemsystems.com>
Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines <nobull@mail.com>
Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines <jeff@vpservices.com>
Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines (Tad McClellan)
Re: These are discouraging stats to Perlistas & Pythoni <bongie@gmx.net>
Re: These are discouraging stats to Perlistas & Pythoni (Larry)
Re: tracing the HTTP <trcek@abas.de>
undef of large Hashes/Arrays took a very long time <Jan.Schubert@GMX.li>
Re: Using substition to remove the last occurance of a (Tad McClellan)
Re: Using substition to remove the last occurance of a <mthunter@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: Using substition to remove the last occurance of a (Tad McClellan)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 09:02:57 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines
Message-Id: <slrnb1to51.s1i.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
clp.miscovites,
I need to change the URL for the quoting style page to:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
So I will be revising the Posting Guidelines shortly.
Anybody have a burning desire to add/delete/change anything
else while I am in there?
Discuss.
Keep in mind that we must be hard-hearted about keeping its
size from growing unbounded.
So, keep your suggested additions short, or suggest what can
be deleted to make room for your proposed addition.
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:16:00 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com>
Subject: Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines
Message-Id: <x78yxtjas0.fsf@mail.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "TM" == Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> writes:
TM> So I will be revising the Posting Guidelines shortly.
TM> Anybody have a burning desire to add/delete/change anything
TM> else while I am in there?
TM> Discuss.
post it twice a week. too many newbies join without having seen it. the
one week cycle leaves too large a gap. we have seen this problem
recently as they claim they didn't see it. now mind you, they could have
just not noticed it (BOLD SUBJECT? URGENT!! :) or didn't realize it was
meant for them (NEWBIES: READ ME!!).
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
----- Stem and Perl Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding ----
Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
Damian Conway Perl Classes - January 2003 -- http://www.stemsystems.com/class
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jan 2003 17:34:49 +0000
From: Brian McCauley <nobull@mail.com>
Subject: Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines
Message-Id: <u9znq8lxhi.fsf@wcl-l.bham.ac.uk>
tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan) writes:
> So I will be revising the Posting Guidelines shortly.
>
> Anybody have a burning desire to add/delete/change anything
> else while I am in there?
I must admit I think the current guidelines are an absolute $EXPLETIVE
marvel!
If I had to find fault it would be that in a few places you say "perl"
where I'd have said "Perl".
> Keep in mind that we must be hard-hearted about keeping its
> size from growing unbounded.
To that end some there are still a few bits could perhaps be more
brief and less wordy.
For example:
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and is expected regardless of what
newsgroup you are visiting. Lurking means to simply monitor a
newsgroup for a period of time until you become very familiar
with local customs. Think of a newsgroup as foreign
culture. Each newsgroup has its own specific customs and
rituals. Get to know those customs and rituals well before you
participate. This will help you to avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
(78 words)
Could, without significant loss of information, be reduced to:
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups.
Lurking means to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become
familiar with local customs. Each newsgroup has specific
customs and rituals. Knowing these before you participate
will help avoid embarrassing social situations. Consider
yourself to be a foreigner at first!
(50 words)
Do you (by which I mean the nettizens as of clp* as a whole, not just
Tad) want me to go though the whole document to find other stuff like
this or do people prefer the more wordy style?
--
\\ ( )
. _\\__[oo
.__/ \\ /\@
. l___\\
# ll l\\
###LL LL\\
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 18:22:11 +0100
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0301101702110.13052-100000@lxplus076.cern.ch>
On Jan 10, Tad McClellan inscribed on the eternal scroll:
> Anybody have a burning desire to add/delete/change anything
> else while I am in there?
You might just want to mention the increasingly-used jargon term TOFU
alongside Jeopardy. I don't see any need to explain it here - it
should be sufficient that they've seen the term mentioned. Tentative
suggestion:
old version:
Intersperse your comments I<following> the sections of quoted text
that your comments apply to. Failure to do this is called
"Jeopardy" posting because the answer comes before the question.
new:
Intersperse your comments I<following> each section of quoted text
to which they relate. Defective followup styles are referred to as
"Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the question), or "TOFU".
The only other comment I have about this excellent document is
that, yet again, a number of recent postings have emphasised the
importance of the whole section:
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
Unfortunately, it's clear that typically, the people who make this
mistake have a mental model of their problem area which is such that
they are simply unable to comprehend what they are doing wrong. This
then not only results in them making heavy weather of resolving their
specific problem, but all too often results in them turning abusive
when one tries, no matter how patiently, to point them in a productive
direction.
My analogy tends to be that many programmers use coffee to help them
write their programs, so why don't they raise their programming
questions on rec.food.drink.coffee, but I suspect that analogy is just
too trite.
I wish I knew the answer, but I don't have anything terse enough and
effective enough to go into the posting guidelines. And since such
folks seem blissfully unaware that they even _have_ a problem of this
kind, I fear that they would see no reason to go and consult any
external resource which one might try to commend to them. Sigh.
best regards
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 10:09:12 -0800
From: Jeff Zucker <jeff@vpservices.com>
Subject: Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines
Message-Id: <3E1F0C48.3060103@vpservices.com>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>>>>>>"TM" == Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>
> TM> So I will be revising the Posting Guidelines shortly.
>
> TM> Anybody have a burning desire to add/delete/change anything
> TM> else while I am in there?
>
> TM> Discuss.
>
> post it twice a week. too many newbies join without having seen it. the
> one week cycle leaves too large a gap. we have seen this problem
> recently as they claim they didn't see it. now mind you, they could have
> just not noticed it (BOLD SUBJECT? URGENT!! :) or didn't realize it was
> meant for them (NEWBIES: READ ME!!).
What, only two exclamation points??????????
(additional question marks for humour, not emphasis)
--
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:08:51 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: suggested revisions for the Posting Guidelines
Message-Id: <slrnb1u31j.sch.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Uri Guttman <uri@stemsystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "TM" == Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> writes:
>
> TM> So I will be revising the Posting Guidelines shortly.
>
> TM> Anybody have a burning desire to add/delete/change anything
> TM> else while I am in there?
>
> TM> Discuss.
>
> post it twice a week.
OK. I'll start doing that soon, unless there is a large outcry
against it in this thread.
> we have seen this problem
> recently as they claim they didn't see it. now mind you, they could have
> just not noticed it
I expect the real cause is that they don't lurk, they just pop
in to ask their question. I don't see any practical means of
mitigating that problem...
> (BOLD SUBJECT? URGENT!! :) or didn't realize it was
> meant for them (NEWBIES: READ ME!!).
We could consider more serious suggestions for an
attention-getting Subject, but those ones hit four of
my negative scoring rules[1].
Seems silly to killfile my own posts :-)
The Subject _must_ match /^Posting Guidelines / though, in
support of folks who want to filter them out. I promised
this when they were first being developed.
I kinda like:
New here? How to get answers.
Free Perl consulting!
but nothing we do will make much difference in the face
of non-lurking anyway...
[1] no lower case letters
consecutive exclamation marks
contains "urgent"
contains "newbie"
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:03:45 +0100
From: "Harald H.-J. Bongartz" <bongie@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: These are discouraging stats to Perlistas & Pythonistas...
Message-Id: <1897587.ERBJOS54ez@nyoga.dubu.de>
Paul Boddie wrote:
> jacob@cd.chalmers.se (Jacob Hallen) wrote in message
> news:<avfkpp$a7n$1@nyheter.chalmers.se>...
>>
>> An interesting thought is wether the 55 Python programmers will
>> produce more useful applications than the 2037 VB programmers.
>
> It gets even more interesting if you take monkeys and typewriters into
> consideration.
Modern monkeys don't use typewriters anymore. They use a serial console
with Emacs. (They experimented with vi, but monkeys tend to press the
Esc key too often and 'i' or 'a' too rarely, so productivity was
reduced dramatically.)
Ciao,
Harald [vim user]
--
Harald H.-J. Bongartz <bongie@gmx.net>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes
hurtling down the highway. -- Andrew S. Tannenbaum
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jan 2003 09:23:25 -0800
From: wrbt@email.com (Larry)
Subject: Re: These are discouraging stats to Perlistas & Pythonistas...
Message-Id: <2ec1bc1c.0301100923.5a2e9bce@posting.google.com>
genericax@hotmail.com (Sara) wrote in message news:<776e0325.0301070721.7405a312@posting.google.com>...
>
> I'd be a parking attendant before I'd learn ASP. You may
> be taking over the world Bill but you ain't getting ME!
>
Sometimes you have to give a little to get.
When I came here my company was 100% NT/ASP/SqlServer for their web
applications. There was no way I was going to sell them on a complete
change, so I started slipping it under the radar a piece at a time.
I remember the first time: we needed to generate graphs on the fly. As
people sat comparing prices and licensing issues on the various
VBScript/ActiveX solutions I whipped it up a demo using Python and
PIL. Sold. It worked, it worked for free, and it could operate
seamlessly with the massive, steaming pile of vbscript. Since then
I've been implementing more and more of our project in Python. Sure
I'm still in ASP but I'm building up a nice library of Python modules
that are called from the ASP/Python scripts.
I'd say about 90% of the code I write now is Python, and my constant
preaching is slowly winning converts. They haven't really dived in but
I get a lot of "wow that is pretty cool" these days. One BIG selling
point to ASP people is making changes to a module and being able to
open an shell, import it, and test the function. And I mean REALLY
test the function. Most of what you're returning to a web app is lists
or lists of lists to be displayed. Sitting there interactively picking
apart the results of a function, as used to Python guys and gals are
to doing, gets a huge wow from an asp/vbscript crowd. They're used to
refreshing web pages and hoping errors don't fall in between table
elements that display.
I'm planning on taking another beachhead by working Cheetah in this
spring. Wish me luck comrades. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 19:08:12 +0100
From: Stefan Trcek <trcek@abas.de>
Subject: Re: tracing the HTTP
Message-Id: <403u1v8ejk787vulp78g54fhj29qb19ts7@4ax.com>
On Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:44:14 +0100, Sascha Kerschhofer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> How can I log the communication between my web-browser and any webserver? I
> am interested in the
>
> POST /download/xy.php HTTP/1.1
> ... stuff.
I used HttpSniffer.pl http://www.schmerg.com/code.asp
Stefan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 16:57:56 +0100
From: Jan Schubert <Jan.Schubert@GMX.li>
Subject: undef of large Hashes/Arrays took a very long time
Message-Id: <avmqlh$gpvt7$1@ID-2265.news.dfncis.de>
Pls, may someone point me to some documentation about memory consumption
of very large Arrays and/or Hashes!? It seems that undef/unfree of huge
Arrays (2-3GB) takes very long and would even apply when exiting a perl
-program. Is there any way to speed this up? If i do a kill to the
proggy it exits immediatly and the memory is freed, so how can i do this
in perl?
Also i'm interessted in geeting some information about access-times to
such huge arrays and hashes. Which one is faster?
Thx a lot,
Jan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:19:03 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Using substition to remove the last occurance of a word
Message-Id: <slrnb1tlin.rv3.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
tim <tim@deadgoodsolutions.spam-me-and-die.com> wrote:
>
> I have a string that contains multiple lines and I want to remove just the
> last occurance of a particular word. Using subsituition I can either remove
> the first or all of them, but can't see how to just remove the last one.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on this for me please?
s/(.*)word/$1/s;
or, probably better:
s/(.*)\bword\b/$1/s;
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 17:49:17 GMT
From: Mike Hunter <mthunter@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Using substition to remove the last occurance of a word
Message-Id: <slrnb1u22g.n5c.mthunter@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu>
On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:19:03 -0600, Tad McClellan wrote:
> tim <tim@deadgoodsolutions.spam-me-and-die.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have a string that contains multiple lines and I want to remove just the
> > last occurance of a particular word. Using subsituition I can either remove
> > the first or all of them, but can't see how to just remove the last one.
> >
> > Can anyone shed some light on this for me please?
>
>
> s/(.*)word/$1/s;
>
> or, probably better:
>
> s/(.*)\bword\b/$1/s;
Winner!
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:30:37 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Using substition to remove the last occurance of a word
Message-Id: <slrnb1u4ad.sg8.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Mike Hunter <mthunter@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 08:19:03 -0600, Tad McClellan wrote:
>> tim <tim@deadgoodsolutions.spam-me-and-die.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have a string that contains multiple lines and I want to remove just the
>> > last occurance of a particular word.
>> s/(.*)\bword\b/$1/s;
>
> Winner!
I would like to thank my mother, and Larry, and Randal, and...
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 4379
***************************************
