[22145] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4366 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jan 8 11:05:46 2003
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:05:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 8 Jan 2003 Volume: 10 Number: 4366
Today's topics:
Re: /g is not working in counting substring globally <krahnj@acm.org>
Re: /g is not working in counting substring globally <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: A Good Perl Book (Sara)
Re: How do you use cgi.pm to parse multiple records of (Tad McClellan)
Re: Internet chat CGI script <usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm>
Re: Lexical scope bug in eval()? (Ben Morrow)
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@augustmail.com
Re: Taint check question (Tad McClellan)
Re: Taint check question <md0nilhe@mdstud.DIESPAMchalmers.se>
Re: These are discouraging stats to Perlistas & Pythoni <mwm@mired.org>
Re: using subroutines defined in other scripts (Tad McClellan)
Re: using subroutines defined in other scripts <jvandervloet@hotmail.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 14:24:21 GMT
From: "John W. Krahn" <krahnj@acm.org>
Subject: Re: /g is not working in counting substring globally
Message-Id: <3E1C3402.BEC98D9@acm.org>
ashish anand wrote:
>
> counting substring TT in pattern ATTTAG through /g is not working. It
> gives only 1 occurance of TT while there are 2 occurances of TT. how
> to solve this problem.
$ perl -le' $_ = "ATTTAG"; $count++ while /(?=TT)/g; print $count'
2
John
--
use Perl;
program
fulfillment
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:42:38 GMT
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: /g is not working in counting substring globally
Message-Id: <OFXS9.26198$xb.11575@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>
ashish anand wrote:
> counting substring TT in pattern ATTTAG through /g is not working. It
> gives only 1 occurance of TT while there are 2 occurances of TT. how
> to solve this problem.
Nope, there is only 1. Just replace any occurence (one by one) with e.g. X.
For the first occurence you get AXTAG. Now, please show me the second
occurence of TT in AXTAG.
jue
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 2003 06:20:39 -0800
From: genericax@hotmail.com (Sara)
Subject: Re: A Good Perl Book
Message-Id: <776e0325.0301080620.2fd55b92@posting.google.com>
"Steve C" <sjcole@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1041892895.356594@ananke.eclipse.net.uk>...
> Hiya Folks,
>
> I'm just about to order the O'Reilly book: Programming Perl (Authors Larry
> Wall, Tom Christiansen, Jon Orwant)
> I know there's plenty of online material - but you know, I like to be able
> to read something in the local pub / bar ! (sad !!)
>
> Is this book to be recommended by the many perl gurus on this NG, or should
> I be considering something different ?
> For information: I have only ever programmed in PASCAL, BASIC, COBOL, Visual
> Basic (Arrgghh!) and more recntly dabbled with PHP4
>
> Many Thanks
>
> Steve C.
This is like deja-vu all over again!? Are you practicing loops?
-Gx
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:04:50 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: How do you use cgi.pm to parse multiple records of data entered on an html screen?
Message-Id: <slrnb1oc02.kmo.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
Entfred <entfred@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am trying to program a form that allows multiple lines entered on
> the screen to be saved in a data structure for future processing.
Do you really mean multiple _lines_?
Or do you mean multiple form inputs?
> For example, a user might enter 4 records on an HTML screen having
> track, artist, CD. When the user presses the submit button, the fields
> are passed to a CGI program to parse the fields.
>
> I have something like the following working, but I would rather use
> CGI.PM to do this. I didn't see any built-in functions in CGI.PM to do
> this.
If I understand the "this" you are referring to, then param() can do it.
> My next step was to go through all the cgi.pm source and, perhaps,
> modify the lines that do the actual parsing, but before doing that,
> I was wondering if there is a function I overlooked when reading all
> the cgi.pm documentation.
>
> Thanks for any hints or tips on this!
You should enable strictures:
use strict;
> foreach $entry (@entries) {
foreach my $name ( param() ) {
> local($name, $value) = split(/=/, $entry);
You should always prefer my() over local(), except when you can't.
my $value = param($name);
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:30:30 -0000
From: "David K. Wall" <usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm>
Subject: Re: Internet chat CGI script
Message-Id: <Xns92FD6AE56DF9Bdkwwashere@216.168.3.30>
Alan Hamlett <calc83p@yahoo.com> wrote on 08 Jan 2003:
> I am taking on the task of making an internet chat room using perl
> at http://83p.tigalaxy.com/anthem/nt/ so that i can talk to my
> programmer friends and my chat room is rather bad.
Chat using CGI? Yecch. What's wrong with IRC?
--
David K. Wall - usenet@dwall.fastmail.fm
"Oook."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:00:22 +0000 (UTC)
From: mauzo@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk (Ben Morrow)
Subject: Re: Lexical scope bug in eval()?
Message-Id: <avhhum$541$1@wisteria.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Brian McCauley <nobull@mail.com> wrote:
>mauzo@mimosa.csv.warwick.ac.uk (Ben Morrow) writes:
>
>> I have come across something which I can only explain as a bug in
>> perl.
>
>If you take a look at some of the numerous previous threads on this
>subject you'll see it's not a bug but a necessary feature.
>
>For example see message <76e4509c.0207020902.3dd6a3a3@posting.google.com>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=76e4509c.0207020902.3dd6a3a3%40posting.google.com
OK, sorry.
>Fixing this "bug" in the interactions between closures and eval would
>mean that all file-scoped lexicals would get copied to the pads of all
>subroutines that contain eval(STRING).
>
>Think about the implications that would have for memory usage and the
>timely calling of DESTROY methods.
Yup, OK.
Sorry about that.
It's just kinda confusing because I'm sure that what I've read implies that an
eval(STRING) is essentially just an inner lexical scope, rather like an inner
BLOCK; but your reply in the thread you mentioned seems to say that isn't the
case, and eval gets access to lexicals only by special dispensation.
I see entirely your point about having to copy all the file-scoped lexicals
into the subs pad. I didn't realise the pads worked like that: I sort-of
assumed (without really knowing) that a variable was looked up in progressivly
enclosing lexical scopes until it was found... Guess I was wrong :(.
Sorry again for wasting people's time...
Ben
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 08:56:28 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.2 $)
Message-Id: <MvicnTaqVruBoYGjXTWcqg@august.net>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.2 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Please do not use the existence of these guidelines as a
"license to flame" or other meanness. It is possible that
a poster is not aware of the things discussed here. Let's
give them the benefit of the doubt, and just help them learn
how to post, rather than assume that they do know and are
being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" in the
very precise sense that they're used in technical conversation
(such as you're likely to encounter in this newsgroup). When
we say that you *must* do something, we mean that if you don't
do that something, then it's very unlikely that you're going to
get much benefit from using this group. We're not trying to boss
you around; we're just trying to convey the point without using
a lot of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and is expected regardless of what newsgroup
you are visiting. Lurking means to simply monitor a newsgroup for a
period of time until you become very familiar with local customs.
Think of a newsgroup as foreign culture. Each newsgroup has its own
specific customs and rituals. Get to know those customs and rituals
well before you participate. This will help you to avoid
embarrassing social situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner
at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/authors/Dean_Roehrich/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* the sections of quoted text
that your comments apply to. Failure to do this is called "Jeopardy"
posting because the answer comes before the question.
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> and many others on the
comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 08:43:57 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Taint check question
Message-Id: <slrnb1oe9d.kmo.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
henrik nilsson <md0nilhe@mdstud.DIESPAMchalmers.se> wrote:
> There are two things regarding the -T option that I'd like to know a bit
> more about.
>
> 1. My script relies on a couple of old programs which only read infiles
> in progdir and with a fixed name, INFILE.
So the name of the file is not tainted.
All of the data that you read from the file _will_ be tainted though.
> Hence, for the script to
> potentially run in parallell, I have to make a tempdir for every script
> instance and copy and run the programs there.
I have no idea how you reached that conclusion.
Why is it that you must make multiple copies of the program file?
It is perfectly fine to have multiple program instances reading
from the same file. It is when you are _writing_ to a file that
you must take multitasking (I think that's what you mean by "parallell"?)
into account.
> The taint check of course freaks out and asks me do the PATH thing. I
> assume that I should indeed not reset PATH every time I run the script,
> especially not if the script is run several times in parallell.
I think that is a "cascade" from an earlier incorrect conclusion.
If you don't need the tempdirs, then this problem will go away too.
> Is there any chance that my script will ever pass a taint check, and if
> so, what should I do to make it happen?
Clear up the incorrect conclusion. :-)
Why is it that you must make multiple copies of the program file?
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:55:26 +0100
From: henrik nilsson <md0nilhe@mdstud.DIESPAMchalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Taint check question
Message-Id: <3E1C3BDE.9080900@mdstud.DIESPAMchalmers.se>
Thanks for your comments. Here's what I meant:
The user pastes data into a html field. I fetch it, inspect / correct
it, and save it to the file INFILE (which *must* have that name).
Furthermore, the program I refer to reads ONLY from its own directory,
no absolute or relative paths to outside the directory are accepted.
Hence, there must be a file called INFILE in the directory where the
program is. It reads the file and saves the processed data as OUTFILE.
If I have more than user at the same time, the file INFILE will be
overwritten and data will be lost, and the same for OUTFILE.
I still think that I will need to create a separate directory for each
instance of the script, and copy and the program there.
And that's where I get taint check problems.
Thanks again for your comments,
Henrik N
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 16:03:32 GMT
From: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org>
Subject: Re: These are discouraging stats to Perlistas & Pythonistas...
Message-Id: <x7fzs3wrw3.fsf@guru.mired.org>
genericax@hotmail.com (Sara) writes:
> Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> wrote in message news:<x7heckyeti.fsf@guru.mired.org>...
> > "Robert Oschler" <Oschler@earthlink.net> writes:
> > > I can't look at dice.com anymore, too depressing. Some appx stats:
> > >
> > > Date C++ jobs Java jobs
> > > 3/2000 42000 31000
> > > 10/2003 2200 2800
> > Ok, where did you get the numbers for October 2003? Or is that 1/2003
> > or 10/2002?
> Sorry Mike this is all of the data I have. A friend emailed me this
> table in a message and that's what I got. He wanted to "rub it in"
> about how I'm "wasting my career" with Perl, PHP, and Python.
I guess your friend has a time machine. If VB can do that, maybe it's
worth a look!
> The way I look at it, if I was an artiste and everyone was working in
> fingerpaints, I'd stil rather work in oils if that was the medium I
> preferred. ASP is the fingerpaint, Perl is oils. Hope my ears survive
> this quest!
I know the feeling. I'd rather do something I enjoy - and if that
means not working with computers rather than write C++ or work on
Windows, so be it.
<mike
--
Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/
Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 09:10:30 -0600
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: using subroutines defined in other scripts
Message-Id: <slrnb1ofr6.kqb.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com>
joeri <jvandervloet@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Brian McCauley" <nobull@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:u9r8bnpy4j.fsf@wcl-l.bham.ac.uk...
>> "joeri" <jvandervloet@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > > OK, first comment, posting TOFU is rude. It will gerally be
>> > > considered an insult by the person to whom you are reponding. If you
>> > > really mean to thank someone then you should not insult them in the
>> > > same breath.
>> >
>> > I'm not sure what you mean by TOFU.
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/TOFU.html
>> Text On-top. Full-quote under. i.e. putting the entirity of the
>> message to which you are replying at the end of your message.
>>
>> > I wasn't aware of the fact that I did sth that is considered rude.
Yet after you did become aware of it, you continued being rude,
as evidenced by doing it yet again.
>> It is odd that many people who would instinctively realise the need
>> for this "lurking" in meatspace seem to have geat difficulty realising
>> the need for it in cyberspace.
> Maybe people such as yourself can point out to me what I'm doing wrong when
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I do the thing that is considered 'not done' in a cultural context that is
> new to me,
1) continuing to do it *after* you've found out that it is
socially unacceptable.
2) Not having a "Sorry, I didn't know that" attitude rather than a
"that's a silly thing and I will not do it" attitude. It is easier
for one person to conform to the society rather than attempt
to convert the entire society to your way of thinking.
> so that I can bear this in mind if and when I choose to take part in this
> culture again.
If you should so choose, you are likely to be socially ostracised
as a result of your me-me-me attitude.
*plonk*
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:41:56 GMT
From: "joeri" <jvandervloet@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: using subroutines defined in other scripts
Message-Id: <8FXS9.1004$ym5.81@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
> >> > > OK, first comment, posting TOFU is rude. It will gerally be
> >> > > considered an insult by the person to whom you are reponding. If
you
> >> > > really mean to thank someone then you should not insult them in the
> >> > > same breath.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure what you mean by TOFU.
>
>
> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/TOFU.html
>
>
> >> Text On-top. Full-quote under. i.e. putting the entirity of the
> >> message to which you are replying at the end of your message.
> >>
> >> > I wasn't aware of the fact that I did sth that is considered rude.
>
>
> Yet after you did become aware of it, you continued being rude,
> as evidenced by doing it yet again.
At the time I responded to the message which drew my attention to the
existence of the
concept 'TOFU' I still did not know what it meant and hence could not have
replied
in the way generally accepted by the society.
> 1) continuing to do it *after* you've found out that it is
> socially unacceptable.
I still didn't know what 'it' meant...
> 2) Not having a "Sorry, I didn't know that" attitude rather than a
> "that's a silly thing and I will not do it" attitude. It is easier
> for one person to conform to the society rather than attempt
> to convert the entire society to your way of thinking.
It was my intention to deploy a "I am sorry"-attitude. So again, I'm sorry I
didn't know
what it meant. Hopefully I have it right this time...
> If you should so choose, you are likely to be socially ostracised
> as a result of your me-me-me attitude.
What can I say. I apologise.
J.
"Tad McClellan" <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnb1ofr6.kqb.tadmc@magna.augustmail.com...
> joeri <jvandervloet@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Brian McCauley" <nobull@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:u9r8bnpy4j.fsf@wcl-l.bham.ac.uk...
> >> "joeri" <jvandervloet@hotmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > > OK, first comment, posting TOFU is rude. It will gerally be
> >> > > considered an insult by the person to whom you are reponding. If
you
> >> > > really mean to thank someone then you should not insult them in the
> >> > > same breath.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not sure what you mean by TOFU.
>
>
> http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/TOFU.html
>
>
> >> Text On-top. Full-quote under. i.e. putting the entirity of the
> >> message to which you are replying at the end of your message.
> >>
> >> > I wasn't aware of the fact that I did sth that is considered rude.
>
>
> Yet after you did become aware of it, you continued being rude,
> as evidenced by doing it yet again.
>
>
> >> It is odd that many people who would instinctively realise the need
> >> for this "lurking" in meatspace seem to have geat difficulty realising
> >> the need for it in cyberspace.
>
>
> > Maybe people such as yourself can point out to me what I'm doing wrong
when
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > I do the thing that is considered 'not done' in a cultural context that
is
> > new to me,
>
>
> 1) continuing to do it *after* you've found out that it is
> socially unacceptable.
>
> 2) Not having a "Sorry, I didn't know that" attitude rather than a
> "that's a silly thing and I will not do it" attitude. It is easier
> for one person to conform to the society rather than attempt
> to convert the entire society to your way of thinking.
>
>
> > so that I can bear this in mind if and when I choose to take part in
this
> > culture again.
>
>
> If you should so choose, you are likely to be socially ostracised
> as a result of your me-me-me attitude.
>
>
> *plonk*
>
>
> --
> Tad McClellan SGML consulting
> tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
> Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
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