[18738] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 906 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue May 15 14:11:54 2001
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 11:10:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <989950222-v10-i906@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 15 May 2001 Volume: 10 Number: 906
Today's topics:
Locking acces to files <karol@imm.org.pl>
Re: Locking acces to files <a.v.a@home.nl>
Re: Locking acces to files (Anno Siegel)
Re: Locking acces to files (Craig Berry)
Re: Locking acces to files (Anno Siegel)
Re: Need SNPP Perl CLI interface for NT <AgitatorsBand@yahoo.com>
parent code halts browser display until child process f <mark.l.phillips@bt.com>
Pattern match headache <pef@trasra.noXX>
Re: Pattern match headache (Bernard El-Hagin)
Re: Pattern match headache (Anno Siegel)
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <spam@un.u.nu>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <a.v.a@home.nl>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi (John Stanley)
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi (John Stanley)
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi (John Stanley)
Re: script via inetd <ramos@terra7.de>
Sending wav-file through perl-script <Tim.Lauterborn@gmx.de>
South Florida Job <todd@dsninc.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:40:11 +0200
From: "Karol Nowakowski" <karol@imm.org.pl>
Subject: Locking acces to files
Message-Id: <3b014d51$1@news.home.net.pl>
I'm looking for some general info:
1) does not using file locks can cause realy serious problems,
2) does use of flock command (as far as my server understands it) is ok or I
need something more?
3) what will happen when two users will open the same file but only for
reading
please help,
best regards,
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:39:05 GMT
From: AvA <a.v.a@home.nl>
Subject: Re: Locking acces to files
Message-Id: <3B0125AB.19A37DCF@home.nl>
Karol Nowakowski wrote:
> I'm looking for some general info:
> 1) does not using file locks can cause realy serious problems,
> 2) does use of flock command (as far as my server understands it) is ok or I
> need something more?
> 3) what will happen when two users will open the same file but only for
> reading
>
> please help,
> best regards,
> Charles
if i am correct then most systems already use flock, so not calling it
shouldn't be much of a problem.
try: locate flock to see if ur system uses it.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 15:46:50 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Locking acces to files
Message-Id: <9drj1a$ceu$3@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
According to Karol Nowakowski <karol@imm.org.pl>:
> I'm looking for some general info:
> 1) does not using file locks can cause realy serious problems,
Usually, file locking is employed to prevent problems that would
otherwise occur when multiple processes access the same file.
There are problems (deadlocks) that can occur with file locking,
but this only happens when you apply it inappropriately.
> 2) does use of flock command (as far as my server understands it) is ok or I
> need something more?
...to achieve what? Without stating a goal, your question makes no
sense.
> 3) what will happen when two users will open the same file but only for
> reading
Under standard locking they can do that. You ought to read up on
some of the concepts in perldoc -f lock, plus the documentation your
system has on file locking.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:53:24 -0000
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Locking acces to files
Message-Id: <tg2no4d9maquf7@corp.supernews.com>
Karol Nowakowski (karol@imm.org.pl) wrote:
: I'm looking for some general info:
: 1) does not using file locks can cause realy serious problems,
It can cause problems if there are multiple process which may try to
access the file simultaneously, and if at least one of these processes
changes the file. If these conditions are met, then inconsistent reads or
scrambling/loss of file information may occur.
: 2) does use of flock command (as far as my server understands it) is ok or I
: need something more?
If *all* processes accessing the file use flock properly, this is
sufficient. Note that flock is a voluntary, cooperative locking protocol.
Unless the OS itself enforces exclusion (as e.g. VMS does, but Unix does
not), a rogue process is free to access the file without flocking it.
The best metaphor for how flock works is that of a traffic signal. As
long as all cars crossing an intersection rigorously obey the lights, no
collisions will occur. But nothing about the signal lights *prevents* a
car from driving through a red light. Sometimes it might even do so
without hitting another car; it's a matter of luck.
: 3) what will happen when two users will open the same file but only for
: reading
Multiple readers can safely share a file without flocking. Only when at
least one writer is involved do you need to worry about flock. However,
defensive programmers may well decide to use flock in any case, so that
any future processes added to the system that need to write the same file
can be added with minimal changes to other code. Whether this is overkill
or a wise precaution is a function of your own particular application and
your plans for it.
--
| Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/
--*-- "God becomes as we are that we may be as he is."
| - William Blake
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 17:16:55 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Locking acces to files
Message-Id: <9droa7$i65$3@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
[following up to myself]
According to Anno Siegel <anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de>:
> According to Karol Nowakowski <karol@imm.org.pl>:
> > I'm looking for some general info:
> > 1) does not using file locks can cause realy serious problems,
>
> Usually, file locking is employed to prevent problems that would
> otherwise occur when multiple processes access the same file.
Sorry, I didn't read your question right and overlooked a "not" there.
In any case, Craig Berry has understood your question far better and
written a good reply. I may refer you to that.
Anno
[rest of my posting snipped]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 17:10:18 GMT
From: Scratchie <AgitatorsBand@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Need SNPP Perl CLI interface for NT
Message-Id: <_pdM6.705$du2.66261@news.shore.net>
Shoot. And here I was thinking that this article would be about a Perl API
to the Simpsons episode guide archive at www.snpp.com...
--Art
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 16:45:47 +0100
From: "Mark Phillips" <mark.l.phillips@bt.com>
Subject: parent code halts browser display until child process finishes
Message-Id: <9drj4c$a9k$1@pheidippides.axion.bt.co.uk>
Hello
I have written some PERL/CGI, running on IIS 4.0, using an IE browser.
The parent perl code calls a process (using
Win32::Process::Create(...DETACHED_PROCESS...)) which lasts for approx. 5
minutes. I want the parent code to display some sort of waiting text.
The parent code will not display any HTML text until after the child process
has finished. Is there a simple solution?
I have had a look around the net and the answers seem confusing :
Some say close the STDOUT handle in the child - how??? I have tried
close(STDOUT).
Others suggest using fork().
Thanks for your help,
Mark Phillips
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:46:43 +0200
From: "P.Eftevik" <pef@trasra.noXX>
Subject: Pattern match headache
Message-Id: <3B013343.4443A0F8@trasra.noXX>
I'm searching for words starting with the plus ('+') character,
like this :
if ( $word =~ / ^\+.* / ) { etc..}
Shouldn't this do the trick ?
What am I doing wrong here ?
thanx 4 hints.
Peftie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:50:42 +0000 (UTC)
From: bernard.el-hagin@lido-tech.net (Bernard El-Hagin)
Subject: Re: Pattern match headache
Message-Id: <slrn9g2che.90p.bernard.el-hagin@gdndev25.lido-tech>
On Tue, 15 May 2001 15:46:43 +0200, P.Eftevik <pef@trasra.noXX> wrote:
>I'm searching for words starting with the plus ('+') character,
>like this :
>
>if ( $word =~ / ^\+.* / ) { etc..}
^ ^
Lose the spaces.
Cheers,
Bernard
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 14:14:22 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: Pattern match headache
Message-Id: <9drdju$9ds$2@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
According to Bernard El-Hagin <bernard.el-hagin@lido-tech.net>:
> On Tue, 15 May 2001 15:46:43 +0200, P.Eftevik <pef@trasra.noXX> wrote:
> >I'm searching for words starting with the plus ('+') character,
> >like this :
> >
> >if ( $word =~ / ^\+.* / ) { etc..}
I believe the OP put the spaces in deliberately in an attempt to
make the pattern match "words". This fails in multiple ways, partly
because of the greediness of ".*" and partly because words at the
beginning or end of a string are not surrounded by blanks.
How it should be corrected would depend on the definition of "word".
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:10:13 GMT
From: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <4na2gt025sgol72mj8269hlf8h63ng6g3i@4ax.com>
Martien Verbruggen wrote:
>it makes more
>chance to make a difference if it's kept short, concise and clear.
>Adding in paragraphs, subparagraphs, clauses, subclauses and exceptional
>footnotes to everything isn't going to achieve that.
True. If one can't read it all in at most a few minutes, it won't be
read at all.
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 07:29:04 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <m1k83ir8i7.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> writes:
Godzilla!> There are appropriate ways to do develop a newsgroup
Godzilla!> charter and, there are no other ways to do this. This
Godzilla!> development of a charter should be done right, or not
Godzilla!> at all.
So, this is not a charter, therefore not applicable. You have yet to
demonstrate that the charter process is relevant before you call foul
here.
Charters are formed when the group is formed. There's no formal
process by the news.admins for altering an existing charter (yeah,
that's a weakness in the process), which is what I found out formally
when I started to revise CLPA's charter a few years back.
It's merely a FAQ... a codification of the unwritten rules the
longstanding members of this group have been using, and a request to
new users to accept that status quo to have themselves heard by the
people who are answering the most questions correctly.
Kira, you may not like that there was a culture for this group long
before you were here, but Tad's just being a historian and custodian.
He's not inventing new rules. Just writing down the old ones.
And people are free to violate these guidelines, and then we'll just
point at the guidelines when we say "PLONK", and they'll end up in
parallel killfiles instantly.
So, it's not a charter. It doesn't carry the weight of a charter.
It's just the "you must be this tall for MANY of the people here to
listen to you", which has been going on for a long time anyway.
It's just a FAQ. Get over it. Find another battle.
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:23:02 GMT
From: Miguel Cruz <spam@un.u.nu>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <qRbM6.812$3n.42027@news.itd.umich.edu>
Scott R. Godin <webmaster@webdragon.unmunge.net> wrote:
> I realy hate to quote so much just to make a pithy comment like this,
> but I wholeheartedly agree with the above sentiment 100%.
That's pithy?
miguel
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:23:57 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3B014A0D.86DDBF3D@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
"Randal L. Schwartz" wrote:
> >>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! writes:
(some snippage here and there)
> Godzilla!> There are appropriate ways to do develop a newsgroup
> Godzilla!> charter and, there are no other ways to do this. This
> Godzilla!> development of a charter should be done right, or not
> Godzilla!> at all.
Hey! You are still speaking to me!
> So, this is not a charter, therefore not applicable.
Randal, ahem, in your last article addressed to me, you
announced this document a charter, with which I agree.
Now you are saying it isn't a charter. Are you practicing
being femininely fickle?
> You have yet to demonstrate that the charter process is
> relevant before you call foul here.
People are saying this document is being developed as
a group concensus. This is not happening. Why is it
wrong for me to highlight foulness in light of such
an abundance of lies being told?
> Charters are formed when the group is formed. There's no formal
> process by the news.admins for altering an existing charter (yeah,
> that's a weakness in the process), which is what I found out formally
> when I started to revise CLPA's charter a few years back.
You just stated this document is not a charter. Now you are
saying it is a charter. Randal, are you actually female?
You are rationalizing Randal; making up excuses as others have
been doing. This document is a group charter and should be
treated as such. If we subscribe to your philosophy, any person
or persons could enter any newsgroup and change its charter at
whim and wish. You know, when this is all done, I am going to
write my own charter for this group, auto-post it and announce
it as the official charter for this group. I will also denounce
all other charters here as invalid.
This would be in keeping with your philosophy.
> Kira, you may not like that there was a culture for this group long
> before you were here...
So, nobody should be allowed to participate in the development
of this charter unless they can document being an active regular
in this group for as long as you. These boys playing petty
dictators, are disqualified. They should cease and desist, now.
> ...but Tad's just being a historian and custodian.
> He's not inventing new rules. Just writing down the old ones.
This is untrue. Your "Tad" is playing petty dictator and
this is very clearly evidenced by his own words.
> And people are free to violate these guidelines, and then we'll just
> point at the guidelines when we say "PLONK", and they'll end up in
> parallel killfiles instantly.
I never use killfiles. Use of killfiles is for wimps.
"Point at the guidelines...." You mean use these guidelines being
developed by the chosen few, use these guidelines to abuse people
without reason. Did I not say this charter is being developed to
use as a "legitimate" reason to abuse people? Here you are, already
anticipating abusing people based upon the dictatorial rulings
of this "Tad" character.
"...point at the guidelines....end up in parallel killfiles...."
Boy oh boy, Randal. This is a statement of planned abused if
I ever read one.
> So, it's not a charter. It doesn't carry the weight of a charter.
However, you have announced it is a charter, several times.
> It's just the "you must be this tall for MANY of the people here to
> listen to you", which has been going on for a long time anyway.
Yeah. This is true. This newsgroup exhibits an extremely high
rate of abuse and hatred compared to the average. Rather odd
for a technical newsgroup, don't you think?
> It's just a FAQ. Get over it. Find another battle.
This is not my battle, if it were, you boys wouldn't stand
a chance. I am speaking up for what is true and right, as
a matter of principle. Additionally, there is a nice spin-off.
In the future, these words I speak, my comments on how this
is being handled in a fascist manner, will well serve as a
basis of truth when I indicate and point out how people are
immorally abusing others in the name of the Almighty Charter.
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 08:32:59 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <m1lmnypqz8.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> writes:
Godzilla!> Hey! You are still speaking to me!
Kira, I'll always speak to you. Whether you listen or not is an
entirely different matter. And you *have* listened, many times in the
past. It's evident in your evolution. In fact, you should probably
pick a higher animal for your icon now... perhaps one with fur. :)
>> So, this is not a charter, therefore not applicable.
Godzilla!> Randal, ahem, in your last article addressed to me, you
Godzilla!> announced this document a charter, with which I agree.
Godzilla!> Now you are saying it isn't a charter. Are you practicing
Godzilla!> being femininely fickle?
My mistake. I should not have called it a "charter". I meant that in
the generic sense, not the formal sense. It's just a FAQ. And that
negates nearly everything else you said, so I won't comment on that.
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 08:45:45 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3B014F29.C6005DD5@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
"Randal L. Schwartz" wrote:
> >>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> writes:
> Godzilla!> Hey! You are still speaking to me!
> Kira, I'll always speak to you. Whether you listen or not is an
> entirely different matter. And you *have* listened, many times in the
> past. It's evident in your evolution. In fact, you should probably
> pick a higher animal for your icon now... perhaps one with fur. :)
Oh, I am listening. I have a reputation for being fair but firm.
(snipped)
... a higher evolutionary scale animal with fur.... hmmm...
Beaver? Nah... boys would make sexist remarks on this.
Wookie! I shall consider becoming a Wookie!
Hmm... names.. names... I must develop cute monikers.
Wookie Nookie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:43:54 GMT
From: AvA <a.v.a@home.nl>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3B0126CC.74D9FE0@home.nl>
"Godzilla!" wrote:
> "Randal L. Schwartz" wrote:
>
> > >>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> writes:
>
> > Godzilla!> Hey! You are still speaking to me!
>
> > Kira, I'll always speak to you. Whether you listen or not is an
> > entirely different matter. And you *have* listened, many times in the
> > past. It's evident in your evolution. In fact, you should probably
> > pick a higher animal for your icon now... perhaps one with fur. :)
>
> Oh, I am listening. I have a reputation for being fair but firm.
>
> (snipped)
>
> ... a higher evolutionary scale animal with fur.... hmmm...
>
> Beaver? Nah... boys would make sexist remarks on this.
>
> Wookie! I shall consider becoming a Wookie!
>
> Hmm... names.. names... I must develop cute monikers.
>
> Wookie Nookie
guys if you like ill take u out for drinks and then everyone can forget
all about it.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 16:52:43 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <9drmsr$94h$1@news.orst.edu>
In article <slrn9g268d.v5e.mgjv@martien.heliotrope.home>,
Martien Verbruggen <mgjv@tradingpost.com.au> wrote:
>>>I cannot make the change you suggest.
>>
>> Why not? You are wrong to say "must", so why can you not correct it?
>
>The wording (not Tad) is wrong in _your_ opinion, but obviously not in
>the eyes of many other posters here.
Martien, this is an unmoderated USENET discussion group. Trying to claim
that anything is a "must" before posting is just plain silly. Yes, tell
people that it is a REALLY GOOD IDEA, and even shout if you want, but
telling them that it is a "must" simply isn't true. Forty million
Frenchmen WERE wrong. Apply the analogy.
>I happen to think that should is much too weak. Must is exactly what it
>should read. Must. May not. Must not.
Which of the "must" requirements did you fulfill prior to your posting
this? If you are not willing to honor a "must" that you think you have
the right to tell others, why do you think they will honor it?
>There's no room for "pretty please" in this document.
Of course there is room for "please" in this document. You aren't in
charge of this group. You don't get to tell people what they must do
before they post. You CAN tell them what it would be GOOD for them to
do, you can ASK them to do it, and you can tell them what you will do
if they don't do what you want, but you don't get to "must" them into
obedience.
>> I'll make the point by asking a question: which perl .pod did you read
>> prior to saying you cannot make the change? If you must read .pod prior
>> to posting, but did not, then the "must" is questionable.
>
>Argumentum e absurdum.
Reductio ad absurdum. If you don't have to follow the "must" clauses,
you dont' get to apply them to others.
>>>"Should" implies that it is OK to post without checking the docs.
>>
>> It is. It is not OK to post questions without checking the docs, but
>> you did not limit your statement to "posting questions", and there is
>
>It is not a legal document. It will never have to be defended in any
>court of law.
So that means it is ok to make grand generalisms that are patently
absurd and hope that people know what you meant?
>Frankly, I think you're arguing about nothing.
That's your right. You don't agree with my point, but that doesn't mean
that there isn't one. Others have made the same point.
>There is a definite need
>for this document, and hopefully it'll make a difference.
It will make as little difference as any of the other documents that
have been produced, especially if it takes the attitude that the
author(s) are in control of the group and can tell other people here
what they must do. That is exactly the attitude that is implied by
trying to tell people what they "must" do before posting here.
>it makes more
>chance to make a difference if it's kept short, concise and clear.
This does not prevent the use of the word "should" instead of "must".
Your argument is specious.
>Adding in paragraphs, subparagraphs, clauses, subclauses and exceptional
>footnotes to everything isn't going to achieve that.
Since it doesn't take that to make the changes I and others are asking
for, your argument is specious.
>Legally, and formally, and whateverly, yeah, the best that could be said
>would be should. To be clear however, and in the mind of most people
>who've been around for a long time here, the "must" and "may not" are a
>much better match, and will convey the message much clearer.
What message is that? That some people think they are in charge of this
newsgroup and can tell others what and how they may post? That's a poor
message to send.
>Besides, it is true: To avoid crappy threads, flames and endless
>discussions, you _must_ do these things.
No, that is not true. You get crappy threads when those things are done,
and you get good threads even when they are not.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 17:01:20 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <9drnd0$96e$1@news.orst.edu>
In article <Pine.LNX.4.30.0105151128110.1448-100000@lxplus003.cern.ch>,
Alan J. Flavell <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
>On 15 May 2001, John Stanley wrote:
>
>> Alan J. Flavell <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
>
>> >It is considered to be non-optional.
>>
>> YOU may consider it as such,
>
>It's pretty much irrelevant what I, personally, as an individual,
>think about it.
That's right.
>As it happens, I appear to agree with long-standing
>rules of comportment on the major Usenet groups.
I'm sorry, but there is no such "rule". I'm sure you are aware, there
are many groups that have no FAQ at all, so a rule that one must read
the FAQ prior to posting would prevent all posting. Even in those groups
that have FAQs, reading them is optional, and this is one of the few
groups I see on USENET where people are responded to so viciously when
they haven't read the FAQ.
>But even if I, personally, disagreed, that wouldn't change the consensus.
You've missed the point. The "consensus" doesn't get to create rules for
posting here. In the moderated group, maybe. Here, no.
>> Why not just speak the truth and let the honest people learn how you
>> expect them to behave?
>
>It's interesting that you said in an earlier posting that even where
>formal sanctions are involved, you would consider it normal to violate
>the rules when there were supervening circumstances.
Why is this interesting? You don't believe that there are reasons to
violate rules?
>You didn't say
>you required the "prohibited to walk on the grass" signs to have a
>list of permitted exceptions. Why not?
Because I am not saying that this document must have a list of
"permitted exceptions". Your question is a nonsequitor. The point
remains, in places where "must" actually applies, there is something or
someone in charge to make that rule. This is USENET. Unmoderated USENET.
If you want the rules, go to the moderated group. The unmoderated one
was left here for those who didn't.
>Where's your proposed wording?
In my response to the document.
>The only concrete proposal that I saw
>from you was "should", and it seems to me that the discussion already
>went against that as being too weak an expression of this piece of
>netiquette.
I'm glad you agree it is netiquette. You can't 'must' netiquette. If
people don't want to follow it, they won't, and you can't 'must' them.
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 2001 17:05:04 GMT
From: stanley@skyking.OCE.ORST.EDU (John Stanley)
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <9drnk0$9b6$1@news.orst.edu>
In article <slrn9g24b6.jmt.tadmc@tadmc26.august.net>,
Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com> wrote:
>>let the honest people learn how you
> ^^^
>>expect them to behave?
>
>The whole point of the guidelines is to _state_ what is expected,
>rather than having them discover it for themselves.
The whole point of the guidelines is to educate people about how you
expect them to behave. Thus the statement I made about letting them
learn -- by reading what is considered a good idea. People who care what
the good ideas are will respect that. People who know you cannot order
them to do anything will bristle at your demands, but might respect your
requests. You lose NOTHING by asking, but you lose some who would have
respected your request by demanding.
Your choice -- preach to the choir or get new converts.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 15:29:55 +0200
From: "Sebastian Ramos" <ramos@terra7.de>
Subject: Re: script via inetd
Message-Id: <9draot$jeo5m$1@ID-63849.news.dfncis.de>
Hi
thanks a lot...works fine and i understood :)
greets
Sebastian Ramos
"Tad McClellan" <tadmc@augustmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:slrn9g26q9.jmt.tadmc@tadmc26.august.net...
> Sebastian Ramos <ramos@terra7.de> wrote:
>
> >print "hello\n";
> >$user = <STDIN>;
> >print $user;
> >
> >the problem is that the first (!) print command follows after the STDIN
>
> >any ideas ?
>
>
> Put this near the top of your program:
>
> $| = 1; # perldoc perlvar
>
>
> --
> Tad McClellan SGML consulting
> tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
> Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:14:09 +0200
From: "Tim Lauterborn" <Tim.Lauterborn@gmx.de>
Subject: Sending wav-file through perl-script
Message-Id: <9drkmd$a3r$1@nets3.rz.RWTH-Aachen.DE>
Hi,
I would like to send a wav-file "through" a perl-script. Reading and
printing in binary mode is no problem.
Unfortunately "Content-type: audio/wav\n\n" does not work. The browser does
not recognize the file as a wav-file.
Does someone know the right content-type description?
Thanks!
Greetings,
Tim
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 13:57:35 -0400
From: "Todd Katcher" <todd@dsninc.com>
Subject: South Florida Job
Message-Id: <9drqjm$j34$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>
Interested in a full time perl / php job in Sunny South Florida. 2+ years of
solid
perl / php development needed. No junior developers please. Local candidates
will get preference.
Must be able to work in a fast paced environment and be able to interact
with business and technical users.
Please contact todd@dsninc.com for more information. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 906
**************************************
