[18731] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 899 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon May 14 18:16:33 2001
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 15:15:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <989878519-v10-i899@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 14 May 2001 Volume: 10 Number: 899
Today's topics:
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <phil.dobbin@btinternet.com>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <camerond@mail.uca.edu>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi (Abigail)
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revisi <juex@my-deja.com>
Re: Probably a simple question... <Ask@For-It.Com>
Re: Probably a simple question... (Randal L. Schwartz)
Question <vbook@americasm01.nt.com>
Re: testing offline (Abigail)
Using PERL to gather system metrics??? <ronald_starling@intuit.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:16:38 -0700
From: "Jürgen Exner" <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3b00210b@news.microsoft.com>
"Logan Shaw" <logan@cs.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:9dkgce$brm$1@ahab.cs.utexas.edu...
> While I understand it might not be clear, it's not really politeness.
> It's an idiom. I had to read "you may not walk on the lawn" several
> times before I could understand what alternate meaning you were talking
> about.
>
> I think you are saying that native English speakers mean "you may
> choose not to walk on the lawn" when they say "you may not walk on the
> lawn". This would be a way to say that, while one has the freedom to
> make either choice, a certain choice is suggested.
Nope, that's not what I meant.
It's just that the word "may" is normally used to indicate choices or
options: "You may visit me any time". This does not mean: "You must visit
me". If the person wants to visit me or if he doesn't want to visit me, it's
his choice.
However, in case of "You may not walk on the lawn" the "may" does not
indicate a choice. Here it means "You must not walk on the lawn".
This is what I meant when I said 'hiding the meaning by politeness'. By
choosing the polite "may" instead of the intended "must" you weakened your
statement so far that foreigners will not understand the indented meaning.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:29:35 +0100
From: "Phil Dobbin" <phil.dobbin@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <9dp85n$drc$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>
Absolutely well said! My first time in and I wondered what I'd come across.
I thought this group was about Perl.
----------
In article <3AFF1F51.161D33EE@stomp.stomp.tokyo>, "Godzilla!"
<godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
> "Tad" wrote:
>
>> Outline
>
> (snipped)
>
> A correctly formatted Table Of Contents should be provided
> which references clearly labeled sections and sub-sections,
> following this Table Of Contents.
>
>
>> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
>> The comp.lang.perl.misc (clpmisc) Usenet newsgroup is for the discussion
>> of using the Perl programming language.
>
> A topic heading should be followed by a blank line:
>
> Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
>
> The comp.lang.perl.misc (clpmisc) Usenet newsgroup is for the discussion
> of using the Perl programming language.
>
>
>> The comp.lang.perl.misc (clpmisc) Usenet newsgroup is for the discussion
>> of using the Perl programming language.
>
>
> Use of clpmisc is incorrect. This group is most often
> referred to as clpm shown by a majority of articles.
>
> This group is not "for" anything:
>
> "...newsgroup is provided to discuss usage of Perl programming...."
>
> Use correct English at all times. This document should reflect
> professionalism, not incorrect grammar.
>
>
>> Since clpmisc is such a high-traffic....useful for everyone.
>
> Irrelevant. A reader is not interested in posting statistics.
> This should be removed; it is unwarranted clutter.
>
>
>> This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
>> increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question....
>
> Highly insulting, condescending attitude. Readers are to be treated
> with respect and due courtesy, not treated like imbeciles. This
> is not an article, it is a charter or FAQ.
>
> "This FAQ provides information to assist you in obtaining the best use
> of this newsgroup."
>
>
>
>
>> ...I am just the secretary that writes down the consensus of the group.
>
> This is an outright lie. There is no concensus; there has been no request
> for comments, no voting and, this document has been constructed solely
> by you and no other.
>
> "This FAQ is not an official FAQ. It is not a sanctioned FAQ for this
> newsgroup. I wrote this FAQ and my viewpoints do not reflect the
> viewpoints of any other participants within this newsgroup nor
> the viewpoint of this newsgroup as an entity."
>
>
>
>
>> Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
>> Must
>
> This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
> clpmisc.
>
> My response and an average response will be, "Kiss My Butt."
>
> Your use of "must" is extremely insulting and a reflection
> of both your lack of maturity and your lack of professionalism.
> I personally am indignant to be addressed in such a crass and
> rude manner. I personally will say, "Kiss My Butt You Bozo."
>
> **
>
> In closing, the overall tone of this document is an assumption
> readers are imbeciles and unworthy of any common courtesy.
>
> This document is riddled with serious grammatical errors,
> awkward sentences, punctuations errors, gross misuse
> of parenthectical enclosures and, reflects a writing
> skill level typical of an early highschool grade level.
> This is unacceptable for a document which should be written
> in a professional manner.
>
> There are no enclosures regarding inappropriate activities
> such as flame articles, use of vulgarity to insult, including
> degrading and insulting signature file remarks targeting a
> specific person as is a common practice here. There are no
> guidelines about initiating inane arguments for sport as is
> customary for those few involved in this document.
>
> Most important, there is no welcoming statement indicating
> this newsgroup is open for all to use, no statement indicating
> no one person or persons are in charge of this group and,
> no statement indicating all are welcome to use this newsgroup,
> although exhibited behavior here by those who should set
> good examples, indicates otherwise.
>
>
>
> I will remind you of something.
>
>> ...I am just the secretary that writes down the consensus of the group.
>
>
> This quote is an outright black lie. Are you clear on this? It is a lie.
>
>
>
> I will comment further on this document in the future when
> the fancy strikes me. For now, I am insulted by this document,
> am indignant about its tone and, would be embarrassed to see
> this document posted to this newsgroup.
>
> Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 20:35:21 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0105142021510.31938-100000@lxplus003.cern.ch>
On Mon, 14 May 2001, Jürgen Exner wrote:
> However, in case of "You may not walk on the lawn" the "may" does not
> indicate a choice. Here it means "You must not walk on the lawn".
one may == "man darf". Es ist also erlaubt, aber nicht vorgeschrieben.
one may not == "man darf nicht". Es ist also nicht erlaubt.
Sorry - seems clear to me.
> This is what I meant when I said 'hiding the meaning by politeness'. By
> choosing the polite "may" instead of the intended "must" you weakened your
> statement so far that foreigners will not understand the indented meaning.
You could be right about the possibility of misunderstanding. But the
English is still correct, and to be honest, I don't see any anomaly.
If you want an example of an anomaly, then I'd refer you to the "man
muss nicht" == "one doesn't have to" versus "one must not" == "man
darf nicht" misunderstanding between Engl. and German. In this sense,
you _increase_ the possibility for misunderstanding (by a German
speaker who has not learned English well) if you say "must not".
I think we should rule this thread offtopic, though. f'ups suggested.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:54:37 -0500
From: Cameron Dorey <camerond@mail.uca.edu>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3B0029ED.3D0B19A3@mail.uca.edu>
Phil Dobbin wrote:
>
> Absolutely well said! My first time in and I wondered what I'd come across.
> I thought this group was about Perl.
*What* was absolutely well said? By putting your response first and then
quoting a long portion of (maybe the entire) previous post, you don't
give anyone a clue as to your meaning. BTW, this is what is often
referred to in this group as "Jeopardy quoting," and the resulting
confusion is why many (i.e., all but one or two) here don't like to see
it. Before you take offense at my question, feel confident that people
really do want to know what you meant, but don't (yet).
>
> ----------
> In article <3AFF1F51.161D33EE@stomp.stomp.tokyo>, "Godzilla!"
> <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> wrote:
>
[salamander's rant snipped, but if you liked it, I assume you can pull
up the copy of what you wanted to approve of]
Cameron
--
Cameron Dorey
Associate Professor of Chemistry
University of Central Arkansas
Phone: 501-450-5938
camerond@mail.uca.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:48:30 GMT
From: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <ffd0gt4biev4geu1hhoo58klqpsnopfuhe@4ax.com>
Jürgen Exner wrote:
>Nope, that's not what I meant.
>It's just that the word "may" is normally used to indicate choices or
>options: "You may visit me any time". This does not mean: "You must visit
>me". If the person wants to visit me or if he doesn't want to visit me, it's
>his choice.
>
>However, in case of "You may not walk on the lawn" the "may" does not
>indicate a choice. Here it means "You must not walk on the lawn".
The same ambiguity exists with "must".
"You may not walk on the grass." If you group "may"+"not", then it's
clear that this sentence is the inverse of "You may walk on the grass.".
The latter means it is allowed, thus the former means it's not allowed.
OTOH one might think that "You must not walk on the grass." means that
"You don't have to walk on the grass.". But you may f you wish to.
"must"+"not" means an absence of obligation.
Nevertheless: you should stick to the rules of the language, for the
native speakers. It's doesn't really matter if foreigners misunderstand
you, if it's their mistake.
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 20:06:25 +0000 (UTC)
From: abigail@foad.org (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <slrn9g0em1.a6c.abigail@tsathoggua.rlyeh.net>
Bart Lateur (bart.lateur@skynet.be) wrote on MMDCCCXIII September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:ffd0gt4biev4geu1hhoo58klqpsnopfuhe@4ax.com>:
;;
;; OTOH one might think that "You must not walk on the grass." means that
;; "You don't have to walk on the grass.". But you may f you wish to.
;; "must"+"not" means an absence of obligation.
Eh, no. It's an obligation to not do something. Do you really think
all the occurances of "MUST NOT" in RFCs mean "well, you could do it,
or you could not, we really don't care"?
"You must not walk on the grass." doesn't imply an obligation to walk,
but it does mean that if you walk, the grass is forbidden terrain.
Abigail
--
perl -Mstrict='}); print "Just another Perl Hacker"; ({' -le1
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 13:40:20 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3B0042B4.2E90131E@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Abigail wrote:
> Bart Lateur wrote:
> ;; OTOH one might think that "You must not walk on the grass." means that
> ;; "You don't have to walk on the grass.". But you may f you wish to.
> ;; "must"+"not" means an absence of obligation.
> Eh, no. It's an obligation to not do something. Do you really think
> all the occurances of "MUST NOT" in RFCs mean "well, you could do it,
> or you could not, we really don't care"?
> "You must not walk on the grass." doesn't imply an obligation to walk,
> but it does mean that if you walk, the grass is forbidden terrain.
Sho nuff does.
All this petty bickering and fighting between these
little boys, reminds me of historical events some
thirty odd years back when Hanoi and Washington
bickered for months over the shape of a negotiation
table, square, rectangular or round and, I was a
young teenager hustling soda pop bottles to cash
in so I could afford a pair of fancy heels.
During this idiotic bickering, thousands of men,
women and children were wounded or lost their lives,
regardless of which side of this table they stood.
Seems Jane Fonda had it right by making a mockery
of both Hanoi and Washington. Boys are best suited
for standing around while wagging their weenies
at each other. Women are best suited for getting
a job done, regardless of flats or heels.
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 14:35:10 -0700
From: "Jürgen Exner" <juex@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.1 $)
Message-Id: <3b004f8f@news.microsoft.com>
"Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.30.0105142021510.31938-100000@lxplus003.cern.ch...
> On Mon, 14 May 2001, Jürgen Exner wrote:
> I think we should rule this thread offtopic, though. f'ups suggested.
Agreed
jue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 21:29:09 +0100
From: "Robb Meade" <Ask@For-It.Com>
Subject: Re: Probably a simple question...
Message-Id: <9dpf3g$ask$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>
*whoooosh* !! That just went completely all over my head.... :(
As I said, I know very little about Perl, whilst I appreciate what you are
saying was probably aimed more at showing the 'others' what you know...it
means nout to me.. :(
Any chance of throwing in some 'comments' with the code explaining what each
part is doing and why..?
Thanks
--
Robb Meade
Kingswood Web Services
www.kingswoodweb.net
"Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@stonehenge.com> wrote in message
news:m1u22nvrpq.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com...
> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Boardman <peb@bms.umist.ac.uk> writes:
>
> Paul> my
> Paul>
$link="www.kingswoodweb.net/boomshankers/mailing-sub.asp?name=$name&surname=
$surname&email=$to";
>
> And when you send this as part of HTML, you'll need to also escape
> those & as & globally. And before that, $name and $surname and
> $to need to have been prepared to be form variables.
>
> It's probably easiest to use modules for all of this. First, construct
> the URL:
>
> use URI;
> my $url =
URI->new("http://www.kingswoodweb.net/boomshankers/mailing-sub.asp");
> $url->query_form( name => $name, surname => $surname, email => $to );
>
> Then escape it to be included as an HREF link:
>
> use HTML::Entities;
> print '<a href="', encode_entities("$url"), '">write me!</a>';
>
> There. All tidy, and always correct, no matter what's in $name,
> $surname, or $to.
>
> print "Just another Perl hacker,"
>
> --
> Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777
0095
> <merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
> Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
> See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl
training!
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 2001 14:05:02 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Probably a simple question...
Message-Id: <m1wv7jsku9.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Robb" == Robb Meade <Ask@For-It.Com> writes:
Robb> Any chance of throwing in some 'comments' with the code
Robb> explaining what each part is doing and why..?
Well, you could start by reading the appropriate parts of "perldoc URI"
and "perldoc HTML::Entities" and then asking questions based on what
you still have left that you are pondering.
And you should also learn to put your post at the bottom of what's
quoted, and trim your quotes. It's annoying as hell to keep reading
all these upside down posts.
print "Just another Perl hacker,"
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:47:02 -0400
From: "Methods, Verification [SKY:1G20:EXCH]" <vbook@americasm01.nt.com>
Subject: Question
Message-Id: <3B004446.C4595CE5@americasm01.nt.com>
Hello Perl Wizzards!
I have a quick question. I wrote a small script which scans through a
file (*.txt), searching for a specific line; upon finding it, the script
parses the line and pastes it into another file, and it keeps on doing
this until all desired lines are found. Beginner stuff - I'm a newbie.
Now, my question to you is, how can I get the same script to search for
two, or three, or four...etc different lines simultanously, and paste to
the same file. Also, how can I get the script to perform the above
operations, on more than one source file. ie. How can it access all
files in a directory, perform the search/parse operations, and terminate
upon searching through the last file.
Well, that was two questions, but any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks a lot in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 19:24:38 +0000 (UTC)
From: abigail@foad.org (Abigail)
Subject: Re: testing offline
Message-Id: <slrn9g0c7m.a6c.abigail@tsathoggua.rlyeh.net>
Amelia Clarke (stu00ac@rdg.ac.uk) wrote on MMDCCCXI September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:3AFD7E04.F4408DC9@rdg.ac.uk>:
'' I'm fairly new to perl and have been using it to make cgi scripts - the
'' only thing is, I'd like to be able to test them fully offline. Is there
'' a (free) program I can download to allow me to do this?
Sure. I'd say Apache is the most common.
Abigail
--
perl -wle 'print prototype sub "Just another Perl Hacker" {};'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 11:08:15 -0700
From: "RGS" <ronald_starling@intuit.com>
Subject: Using PERL to gather system metrics???
Message-Id: <9dp6uh$nt7$1@news.intuit.com>
Does anyone know how to use PERL (Win32) to get system information, such as
CPU utilization and memory usage? I'm looking for a PERL function or
module...no external utilities.
-RGS
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 899
**************************************
