[18347] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 515 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Mar 17 18:05:46 2001
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:05:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <984870315-v10-i515@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 17 Mar 2001 Volume: 10 Number: 515
Today's topics:
Re: "uninitiatlized value" errors? (Anno Siegel)
(OFF TOPIC - IGNORE) Re: Subroutine in separate files <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: -w and use strict; <mikecook@cigarpool.com>
Re: -w and use strict; (Tad McClellan)
Re: -w and use strict; <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
[ANNOUNCE:] wxPerl 0.05 ( wxWindows + Perl ) (Mattia Barbon)
[OT] Re: Username/password from an HTML form nobull@mail.com
Re: `pwd` doesn't work on all servers? <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Re: ANNOUNCE: Math::MatrixReal::Ext1 (Ilya Zakharevich)
Re: Can't combine > and $ <tinamue@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Re: Can't combine > and $ (Garry Williams)
check a pop3 mailbox without using additional modules <paulthomson@hotmail.com>
Re: check a pop3 mailbox without using additional modul <paulthomson@hotmail.com>
Re: DBI <ben.sugars@home.com>
Re: DBI (Garry Williams)
Re: DBI <ben.sugars@home.com>
Re: Distributive -> and indirect slices (Clinton A. Pierce)
How to start a non-terminating program from a CGI perl <edinburghguy21@yahoo.com>
Re: HTTP Client Question <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>
Re: HTTP Client Question <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>
Re: HTTP Client Question <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Re: HTTP Client Question (Gwyn Judd)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 2001 19:59:08 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: "uninitiatlized value" errors?
Message-Id: <990fmc$bqa$1@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
According to Tad McClellan <tadmc@augustmail.com>:
[...]
> csh doesn't _have_ a syntax for redirecting stderr, you have
> to trick it.
If anyone cares, here's one way. Use a subshell (in ()) like this,
( command >standard_out ) >& error_out
to separate STDOUT and STDERR of a command. ">&" is csh's way
of redirecting both STDOUT and STDERR. Since the inner shell
has already taken care of STDOUT, all there remains to redirect
for the outer shell is STDERR.
Anno
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:05:08 -0800
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: (OFF TOPIC - IGNORE) Re: Subroutine in separate files
Message-Id: <3AB3C374.7FDCF6D2@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Abigail wrote:
(cross the board snippage)
> As for uri, I killfile him too, because he tends to
> bring up Godzilla even when he's not replying to one
> of her posts. I guess he's in love.
I have noticed, over many years, most men become
psychotically obsessed with me. However, I do not
consider this unpleasant psychosis to be love.
Those of my own gender, do not display this psychosis.
However, they do often display an enjoyable warm
friendship, if not outright love.
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 12:43:44 -0700
From: "Michael Cook" <mikecook@cigarpool.com>
Subject: Re: -w and use strict;
Message-Id: <J8Ps6.1658$Hz.346120@news.uswest.net>
How is this (sending the -w warnings to an admin) accomplished?
Michael
--
== CigarPool ==
http://www.cigarpool.com
"Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.30.0103170134220.14900-100000@lxplus003.cern.ch...
> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Tad McClellan wrote:
>
> > Mona Wuerz <wuerz@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >should I leave the -w and use strict in
> > >the working copy?
> >
> > Yes.
>
> But if it's a CGI script, take care to send the warnings to the script
> owner, the admin, or the log, rather than to the prospective hacker,
> who will no doubt be looking for exploitable weaknesses in one's
> programming style.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:36:53 -0500
From: tadmc@augustmail.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: -w and use strict;
Message-Id: <slrn9b7f6l.cpi.tadmc@tadmc26.august.net>
Michael Cook <mikecook@cigarpool.com> wrote:
>"Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote in message
>news:Pine.LNX.4.30.0103170134220.14900-100000@lxplus003.cern.ch...
>> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Tad McClellan wrote:
>> > Mona Wuerz <wuerz@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >should I leave the -w and use strict in
>> > >the working copy?
>> >
>> > Yes.
>>
>> But if it's a CGI script, take care to send the warnings to the script
>> owner, the admin, or the log, rather than to the prospective hacker,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> who will no doubt be looking for exploitable weaknesses in one's
>> programming style.
>
>
>How is this (sending the -w warnings to an admin) accomplished?
The major point of Alan's comment was to be sure that the
warnings (ie. STDERR) do NOT go back to the browser, where
a bad guy may be sitting.
Where STDERR goes is of no concern to Perl. It depends on the
environment that perl was launched in. For CGI programs, most
web servers are setup to send STDERR (ie. the warning messages)
to a server log ("the log" above).
So, if you have that "usual" CGI setup, then you don't need to
worry about what Alan was suggesting you worry about.
(well you still do, because anyone else with access to the server
logs can get the warnings. But at least the pool of potential
crackers is reduced from the "anybody on the net" that it would
be if you displayed warnings in the browser.
)
This Frequently Asked Question:
"How can I get better error messages from a CGI program?"
shows how to stash STDERR in a file of your choice. Since it
just works with a filehandle, you can use a "pipe open" to
other programs (eg. a mailer) to "send" the STDERR (warnings)
to the owner/admin.
Alan was warning about this part of the FAQ answer:
"You can even arrange for fatal errors to go back to the client browser"
Doing what it describes there is bad practice for production CGI
programs. You should only do that for debugging (or not at all).
--
Tad McClellan SGML consulting
tadmc@augustmail.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:28:02 -0800
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: -w and use strict;
Message-Id: <3AB3E4F2.75AAD17D@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Michael Cook wrote:
> Alan J. Flavell wrote:
> > Tad McClellan wrote:
> > > Mona Wuerz wrote:
> > > >should I leave the -w and use strict in
> > > >the working copy?
> > > Yes.
> > But if it's a CGI script, take care to send the warnings to the script
> > owner, the admin, or the log, rather than to the prospective hacker,
> > who will no doubt be looking for exploitable weaknesses in one's
> > programming style.
> How is this (sending the -w warnings to an admin) accomplished?
You should not have warning pragma, strict pragma nor other
similar developmental pragma, enabled for a final cgi script
made available for public use.
Use of those pragma will slow down your script, cause your
script to use more memory, both leading to a less than
efficient script. Pragma of this type are intended to
be used during development; they are tools to put away
when your job is finished. No beneficial purpose is
served by including those in a final script mounted
for general public consumption. Your script, when it
hits the public, is well tested and perfected to a
realistically high degree in need of no further
diagnostics, or should be.
This is not to suggest you should remove non-pragma
error checking methods.
Only inexperienced programmers, poorly skilled programmers
or those too lazy to perform exhaustive testing to ensure
successful operation under realistic conditions, will
leave those developmental tools in a final script.
Godzilla!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:06:16 GMT
From: mbarbon@dsi.unive.it (Mattia Barbon)
Subject: [ANNOUNCE:] wxPerl 0.05 ( wxWindows + Perl )
Message-Id: <9067EE8A6rbootliberoit@192.106.1.6>
Hello,
I've released a new version of wxPerl, the Perl bindings
to wxWindows; you may download the sources from
http://sourceforge.net/projects/wxperl/
The homepage is
http://wxperl.sourceforge.net/
wxWindows is a free and cross platform (Windows/Motif/GTK/Mac)
C++ GUI toolkit, with native look and feel.
( visit http://www.wxwindows.org/ for more detailed informations ).
A PPM package for ActivePerl/Win32 is available
from ftp://wxperl.sourceforge.net/pub/wxperl/0.05/
along with documentation in HTML & CHM ( MS Html Help ) format
There is a mailing list dedicated to wxPerl users:
http://wxperl.sourceforge.net/
Regards
Mattia
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 2001 18:55:49 +0000
From: nobull@mail.com
Subject: [OT] Re: Username/password from an HTML form
Message-Id: <u9k85okyx6.fsf_-_@wcl-l.bham.ac.uk>
Mark Thompson <mark-lists@webstylists.com> writes:
> I was more looking for a way to avoid CGI altogether for everything
> but the initial validation of the username and password. I really
> wanted to avoid having to validate every access when Apache already
> has something in there for allowing one to have continued access, all
> that I'm thinking needs to be done is to have it so that CGI can push
> the username and password into the browser and let the browser handle
> the authentication from then on using the basic authentication scheme
> in Apache.
Don't use basic authentication, use cookie based authentication
(available in Apache).
If a web site was able to remotely set the basic authentication
information in the browser this would mean that it was basically using
the authentication information as a cookie. If the user was unwilling
to accept cookies from your site he would also be even more unwilling
to accept your site messing with his browser's authentication cache.
> FYI, I had checked FAQs for CGI (hoping to find a generic way to apply
> in Perl, for Perl (to find a specific way), and for Apache (to see if
> I can find anything there that would either confirm a way to do what I
> want or deny it.
If you where looking to find if there was any way for an HTTP response
to ask the client to alter an entry in the HTTP basic authentication
credentials cache then you were looking in the wrong place. All the
resources you cite relate to stuff that sitting on the server side of
HTTP.
--
\\ ( )
. _\\__[oo
.__/ \\ /\@
. l___\\
# ll l\\
###LL LL\\
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:30:32 GMT
From: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: `pwd` doesn't work on all servers?
Message-Id: <3ep7btoe0lldj95snvtp52hn8ogf9qhb3c@4ax.com>
nobull@mail.com wrote:
>> The point was that the OP was having problems with `pwd` so switching to
>> Cwd::cwd won't help.
>
>But switching to Cwd::getcwd will.
It doesn't, in my particular case.
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 2001 20:17:42 GMT
From: ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
Subject: Re: ANNOUNCE: Math::MatrixReal::Ext1
Message-Id: <990gp6$4oa$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
<msouth@fulcrum.org>],
who wrote in article <98vu2s$1h2$1@inxs.ncren.net>:
> (2) Ease of installation.
>
> I said that Math::Pari "appears" to be very powerful because I don't
> yet know what it can do. I tried installing it from a CPAN shell
> and it failed.
"Failed" meaning what? There is one test which gives a false negative
if Term::Gnuplot is not found. Yes, it is enough to fool CPAN. But
you got a build dir usable with -Mblib, and you can always use 'force
install'.
It is fixed for some time in my copy, I'm making a new dist now. If
it goes OK, in 15min I'll put it on
ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl/modules
> It appeared to be looking for Term::Gnuplot,
It does not *need* Term::Gnuplot, but it knows how to use it *if*
Term::Gnuplot is present.
> so I tried installing that, and it failed.
Well, these was unfortunate. Term::Gnuplot was not prepared to yet
new twists of gd.a, and had a couple of other bugs. The version in my
FTP directory is fixed, but the PAUSE mirroring of my directory is not
working for some reason.
> (3) Rd*p*O Some people prefer all-Perl modules
Yes, and some people prefer sh one-liners. It is OK as far as it
works. But as far as I saw, the solution you tried to use *did not*
work. *This* was why you started patching.
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: 17 Mar 2001 19:05:23 GMT
From: Tina Mueller <tinamue@zedat.fu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: Can't combine > and $
Message-Id: <990chj$3qsk7$3@fu-berlin.de>
hi,
Jim Kroger <minorseventhSPAMBLOCK@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi, I'm trying to create an output file in a subdirectory.
> $_ contains a directory name. I tried:
> open(OUT, >${_}/scripts/make_mask.txt) || die "can not make mask \n ";
> and got the error in perldebug
> syntax error at myprogram line 85, near ", >"
> execution of myprogram aborted due to program errors
well, ">" is an operator that compares to values, eg
print "less" if 42 > $_;
then you are evaluating the
expression $_ / 'scripts' / 'make_mask' . 'txt'.
so you are dividing $_ and scripts and make_masktxt.
-w would have prevented that.
put the whole thing in quotes, that should help
perldoc perlsyn
hth,
tina
--
http://tinita.de \ enter__| |__the___ _ _ ___
tina's moviedatabase \ / _` / _ \/ _ \ '_(_-< of
search & add comments \ \ _,_\ __/\ __/_| /__/ perception
please don't email unless offtopic or followup is set. thanx
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:36:04 GMT
From: garry@zvolve.com (Garry Williams)
Subject: Re: Can't combine > and $
Message-Id: <E0Ps6.73$ez4.3092@eagle.america.net>
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:35:42 -0500, Jim Kroger
<minorseventhSPAMBLOCK@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hi, I'm trying to create an output file in a subdirectory.
>
>$_ contains a directory name. I tried:
>
>open(OUT, >${_}/scripts/make_mask.txt) || die "can not make mask \n ";
>
>and got the error in perldebug
>
>syntax error at myprogram line 85, near ", >"
>execution of myprogram aborted due to program errors
Then correct the syntax error. :-)
The second argument to open() is an expression. You wanted this
instead:
open(OUT, ">$_/scripts/make_mask.txt")
|| die "can't open $_/scripts/make_mask.txt: $!\n";
You must enclose a string in double quotes when you want it to be the
result of concatenations and variable interpolation.
(There's no need for braces around _, since there's no ambiguity due
to the slash.)
See `Interpolation' in the perlop manual page.
--
Garry Williams
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:48:49 -0000
From: "Paul" <paulthomson@hotmail.com>
Subject: check a pop3 mailbox without using additional modules
Message-Id: <3ab3e99b@news1.homechoice.co.uk>
Hi,
Does anyone know of a way to check a pop3 mailbox without using additional
modules to the basic perl 5 installation? The reason I ask is my isp makes a
hideous charge for installing modules :(
Thanks in advance for any pointers or resources,
Paul
BTW it is an NT server...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:50:09 -0000
From: "Paul" <paulthomson@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: check a pop3 mailbox without using additional modules
Message-Id: <3ab3e9ec@news1.homechoice.co.uk>
Sorry - didn't mean to post this again.
"Paul" <paulthomson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ab3e99b@news1.homechoice.co.uk...
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know of a way to check a pop3 mailbox without using additional
> modules to the basic perl 5 installation? The reason I ask is my isp makes
a
> hideous charge for installing modules :(
>
> Thanks in advance for any pointers or resources,
>
> Paul
>
> BTW it is an NT server...
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:06:59 GMT
From: Benjamin Sugars <ben.sugars@home.com>
Subject: Re: DBI
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103171559150.31446-100000@localhost.localdomain>
On 17 Mar 2001 nobull@mail.com wrote:
> Ted Fiedler <tfiedler@zen.moldsandwich.com> writes:
>
> > Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at ./jinsert_DB.pl line 6.
>
> Your code contains the following construct.
>
> my($jbh)->id('auto_increment')
>
> Since you have just created $jbh as a new undefined valaible you
> can't call a method on it.
If anyone's looking for a good example as to why one should always use
warnings/strict, this is it.
Cheers,
-Ben
--
Benjamin Sugars <ben.sugars@home.com>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:29:35 GMT
From: garry@zvolve.com (Garry Williams)
Subject: Re: DBI
Message-Id: <3HQs6.92$ez4.3964@eagle.america.net>
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:06:59 GMT, Benjamin Sugars <ben.sugars@home.com> wrote:
>On 17 Mar 2001 nobull@mail.com wrote:
>
>> Ted Fiedler <tfiedler@zen.moldsandwich.com> writes:
>>
>> > Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at ./jinsert_DB.pl line 6.
>>
>> Your code contains the following construct.
>>
>> my($jbh)->id('auto_increment')
>>
>> Since you have just created $jbh as a new undefined valaible you
>> can't call a method on it.
>
>If anyone's looking for a good example as to why one should always use
>warnings/strict, this is it.
I'm afraid that this is a run-time error and is completely unaffected
by use strict or enabling warnings:
$ perl -Mstrict -we 'my($jbh)->id("auto_increment")'
Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at -e line 1.
$ perl -we 'my($jbh)->id("auto_increment")'
Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at -e line 1.
$ perl -Mstrict -e 'my($jbh)->id("auto_increment")'
Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at -e line 1.
$ perl -e 'my($jbh)->id("auto_increment")'
Can't call method "id" on an undefined value at -e line 1.
$
--
Garry Williams
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:33:47 GMT
From: Benjamin Sugars <ben.sugars@home.com>
Subject: Re: DBI
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103171731150.31446-100000@localhost.localdomain>
On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Garry Williams wrote:
> >If anyone's looking for a good example as to why one should always use
> >warnings/strict, this is it.
>
> I'm afraid that this is a run-time error and is completely unaffected
> by use strict or enabling warnings:
Yeah, I missed the my() in the original post 'cause of the wrapping. My
bad.
Cheers,
-Ben
--
Benjamin Sugars <ben.sugars@home.com>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 20:00:43 GMT
From: clintp@geeksalad.org (Clinton A. Pierce)
Subject: Re: Distributive -> and indirect slices
Message-Id: <LnPs6.69755$W05.13904639@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com>
[Posted and mailed]
In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103131626180.10583-100000@homebody.freemm.org>,
"David M. Lloyd" <david@freemm.org> writes:
> I have an idea that I'm going to try to put into my Perl, but I want some
> 'professional' opinions on it first.
>
> [...]
>
> Is this worth investigating? Is there any chance that such behaviour
> would ever be integrated into Perl 5? What about Perl 6?
Strictly an amateur opinion, but this looks very, very cool. The ability
to do things like:
@widgets->pack();
In Tk would be...fun. It's clean, straightforward and simple. And
objections about changing the lhs context of the -> operator (from scalar
to...whatever) are nonsense.
The patches to implement this WILL be non-trivial I fear.
--
Clinton A. Pierce Teach Yourself Perl in 24 Hours *and*
clintp@geeksalad.org Perl Developer's Dictionary -- May 2001
"If you rush a Miracle Man, for details, see http://geeksalad.org
you get rotten Miracles." --Miracle Max, The Princess Bride
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:26:23 GMT
From: "Jambo" <edinburghguy21@yahoo.com>
Subject: How to start a non-terminating program from a CGI perl script
Message-Id: <jwRs6.4681$e16.2315705@news2.cableinet.net>
I am wanting to start a Java program which basically runs as a server (this
continues to ru, after the CGI script has finished and the web page has
changed). I have a shell script server-side which calls this java program
with the required parameters.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:07:06 -0500
From: Dilworth <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>
Subject: Re: HTTP Client Question
Message-Id: <3ab3b5fa$0$18887$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>
Abigail wrote:
> Not is there a need to waste post after post whining about it. On what
> rationale is your public whine ok, and a public *plonk* not?
>
> But I'm an equal opportunity plonker. I plonk Jeopardists, and whiners.
>
> *plonk*
>
> Abigail
Life is too short to deal with the likes of you, however vast your
expertise.
*plonk*
Bob D.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:09:12 -0500
From: Dilworth <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>
Subject: Re: HTTP Client Question
Message-Id: <3ab3b677$0$18887$1dc6e903@news.corecomm.net>
Anno Siegel wrote:
>
> Because it damages the thread it appears in. Posting style is
> *not* a matter of personal preference.
>
> [rest of somewhat tiring argumentation snipped]
>
> Anno
Life is too short to deal with folks like you however vast your
knowledge and expertise.
*plonk*
Bob D.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:24:05 GMT
From: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: HTTP Client Question
Message-Id: <l1p7btg0b04md0c1agsde9tfqhupccahn1@4ax.com>
Dilworth wrote:
>Life is too short to deal with folks like you however vast your
>knowledge and expertise.
If you keep this up, this newsgroup will suddenly become extremely
quiet...
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 22:52:47 GMT
From: tjla@guvfybir.qlaqaf.bet (Gwyn Judd)
Subject: Re: HTTP Client Question
Message-Id: <slrn9b7qlu.ts0.tjla@thislove.dyndns.org>
I was shocked! How could Dilworth <bactitech@hortonsbay.com>
say such a terrible thing:
>Anno Siegel wrote:
>>
>> Because it damages the thread it appears in. Posting style is
>> *not* a matter of personal preference.
>>
>> [rest of somewhat tiring argumentation snipped]
>>
>> Anno
>
>Life is too short to deal with folks like you however vast your
>knowledge and expertise.
>
>*plonk*
Plonking Anno *and* Abigail in one thread. That takes out about %10 of
the total volume in clpm. Do you plan on plonking any of the other
regulars or will that suffice for one day?
--
Gwyn Judd (print `echo 'tjla@guvfybir.qlaqaf.bet' | rot13`)
Democracy is also a form of worship. It is the worship of Jackals by
Jackasses.
-H. L. Mencken (contributed by Chris Johnston)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 515
**************************************
