[17812] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5232 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jan 4 17:16:24 2001
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 14:16:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <978646564-v9-i5232@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 4 Jan 2001 Volume: 9 Number: 5232
Today's topics:
Re: Is Perl dying? <keithmur@mindspring.com>
Re: Is Perl dying? (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Is Perl dying? <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Re: Is Perl dying? (Richard Rogers)
javascript to perl <razi.ahmed@openwave.com>
Re: javascript to perl <fozz@iodynamics.com>
Re: javascript to perl (El Nadie)
Re: Language evolution C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is P (Mariusz Drozdziel)
Re: Language evolution C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is P <kenny@kennypearce.net>
Re: Language evolution C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is P <jps@medios.fi>
Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is this <rrocky@bigfoot.com>
Re: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is <joe+usenet@sunstarsys.com>
Re: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is <mischief@velma.motion.net>
Re: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is <rrocky@bigfoot.com>
login fails - dbi:sybase -> mssql 7.0 <toughiq@i-one.at>
Re: login fails - dbi:sybase -> mssql 7.0 <Alexander.Farber@t-online.de>
Looking for example ICQ using Net::ICQ <replynews@bigfoot.com>
Looking for TELNET handler (Tarael200)
Re: Looking for TELNET handler (Garry Williams)
Looking up TCP/UDP port information? <zerkle@home.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:58:48 +0000
From: "Keith G. Murphy" <keithmur@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Is Perl dying?
Message-Id: <3A50D368.11A34931@mindspring.com>
Anno Siegel wrote:
>
> Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> >John Hunter wrote:
> >
> >>Quick BASIC
> >>Thus I embarked on writing a full
> >>application, including a real time digital oscilloscope and every
> >>other goddam feature in the world in a language with no libraries and
> >>little language support. I had to write my own max functions
> >
> >Oh yeah. Perl is much better in that regard.
> >
> > ;-)
>
> Perl's built-in max function? Sure, and it's a pretty one too:
>
> [ $x => $y ] -> [ $x <= $y ];
>
> Anno
I just noticed this. You are one sick puppy. The completely misleading
symmetry of '=>' and '<=' could put an eye out.
------------------------------
Date: 01 Jan 2001 10:11:18 -0800
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Is Perl dying?
Message-Id: <m11yun9m7t.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Keith" == Keith G Murphy <keithmur@mindspring.com> writes:
>> Perl's built-in max function? Sure, and it's a pretty one too:
>>
>> [ $x => $y ] -> [ $x <= $y ];
>>
>> Anno
Keith> I just noticed this. You are one sick puppy. The completely misleading
Keith> symmetry of '=>' and '<=' could put an eye out.
It's also wasteful, creating an arrayref just to throw it away.
Not as pretty, but more efficient, would be:
($x, $y)[ $x <= $y ]
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 18:57:12 GMT
From: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: Is Perl dying?
Message-Id: <umk15t8ds76fmdn07euqpp81987ke4bb0r@4ax.com>
Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>Not as pretty, but more efficient, would be:
>
> ($x, $y)[ $x <= $y ]
($x => $y)[ $x <= $y ]
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2001 00:06:53 GMT
From: sylkie@powertech.no (Richard Rogers)
Subject: Re: Is Perl dying?
Message-Id: <3a521a13.53748406@news.powertech.no>
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:36:24 GMT, Brendon Caligari
<bcaligari@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Most managers I have come across so far coerce people into using VB,
>because in the BUSINESS world, jobs get done in VB, where it is
>SCIENTIFICALLY proven that development in VB is much faster than in
>anything else.
I've been digging into Perl for a short time. Done most of my
development work in Clarion, both Windows and before that DOS. Someone
actually did a function point analysis comparison of Clarion vs VB and
it the result was it takes 10 VB programmers to compete with one
Clarion programmer. Maybe that's why there are so many VB programmers.
There HAS to be.
Perl is too cool. I think Clarion wants to be Perl when it grows up.
<G>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 11:52:54 -0800
From: "razi ahmed" <razi.ahmed@openwave.com>
Subject: javascript to perl
Message-Id: <92o5sv$n2h$1@news.phone.com>
I have code written in java Script ..how can i convert this into perl script
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:50:32 -0700
From: "Doran Barton" <fozz@iodynamics.com>
Subject: Re: javascript to perl
Message-Id: <92pcnn$c2c$1@news.xmission.com>
In article <92o5sv$n2h$1@news.phone.com>, "razi ahmed"
<razi.ahmed@openwave.com> wrote:
> I have code written in java Script ..how can i convert this into perl
> script
It's hard to believe such a conversion could be practical.
JavaScript is a client-side web scripting language, in most cases. In the
web deveopment space, Perl is commonly a server-side web scripting
language. Because of this, JavaScript and Perl are the proverbial apple
and orange of web scripting languages.
Because of this, you're probably not going to have any luck finding a
neato-cool instant JS2Perl conversion utility.
So... to answer your question of "how do I convert this into perl
script?" I say: Learn Perl and then implement your algorithm originally
done in JavaScript in Perl.
-=Fozz
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fozz@iodynamics.com -- Doran L. Barton - Chief Super Hero, Iodynamics LLC
"A good messenger expects to get shot." -- Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 14:06:02 GMT
From: nadie@latino-2000.com (El Nadie)
Subject: Re: javascript to perl
Message-Id: <nadie3a508a7aa72c@news.latino-2000.com>
On Mon, 01 Jan 2001 00:50:32 -0700, Doran Barton <fozz@iodynamics.com> wrote:
> In article <92o5sv$n2h$1@news.phone.com>, "razi ahmed"
> <razi.ahmed@openwave.com> wrote:
>
> > I have code written in java Script ..how can i convert this into perl
> > script
>
> It's hard to believe such a conversion could be practical.
>
> JavaScript is a client-side web scripting language, in most cases. In the
> web deveopment space, Perl is commonly a server-side web scripting
> language. Because of this, JavaScript and Perl are the proverbial apple
> and orange of web scripting languages.
JavaScript also runs on the server side in Netscape servers, in what
used to be called (and possibly still is called) "LiveWire". It
might be that the original poster wants to convert a LiveWire
application to mod_perl or to a Perl CGI. And this isn't as
far-fetched as it might sound ... I myself have converted a couple
LiveWire applications to Perl CGI's in the past.
> Because of this, you're probably not going to have any luck finding a
> neato-cool instant JS2Perl conversion utility.
When I performed my own LiveWire-to-Perl conversions a year or so
ago, I wasn't able to find any JavaScript-to-Perl conversion tools.
And after doing a quick search on the net just now, I still didn't
find any. I presume that you (the original poster) already have
done a more exhaustive search without any luck, either.
> So... to answer your question of "how do I convert this into perl
> script?" I say: Learn Perl and then implement your algorithm originally
> done in JavaScript in Perl.
Agreed.
> -=Fozz
--
El Nadie
nadie@latino-2000.com
------------------------------
Date: 31 Dec 2000 02:50:05 GMT
From: nova@moo.pl (Mariusz Drozdziel)
Subject: Re: Language evolution C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is Python the ULTIMATE oflanguages??)
Message-Id: <slrn94t7mt.bp4.nova@salceson.netwerke.org>
Czesc,
Dnia Sat, 16 Dec 2000 19:12:34 +0000, BorrisYeltsin napisał:
>> o Python is object-oriented language just like Java, suitable for
>> very large enterprises and for large projects (millions of lines of
> Windows 200 has millions of lines of code but Linux has only 1/4 of a
I think, that your comment has nothing to do with the topic.
Nobody said, that we must create one-million-lines applications, but
if python can handle such stuph - good for it. Don't even try to
tell me, that every language can handle such source code, becouse
the trick about comment lines is obvious. :-)
> million, does this make Windows 2000 better than Linux?
As a matter a fact, this 0.25 Mlines is more shame that
something to be proud of. Linux is going wrong way nowadays. If they
are going to include every stupid driver in kernel instead of making
*separate* modules, then in less that year nobody will be able to
watch the stability and secure of such a monster... But this thema
is for very diffrent group, i think.
--
Mariusz.
== Mariusz Drozdziel <M.Drozdziel@elka.pw.edu.pl> * 2:482/52@fidonet ==
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 21:00:46 -0800
From: Kenny Pearce <kenny@kennypearce.net>
Subject: Re: Language evolution C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is Python the ULTIMATE oflanguages??)
Message-Id: <3A51607E.258DF290@kennypearce.net>
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I haven't used Python or Anvil, but I have read up on Python (I've never heard of anvil before) and It should be noted that the official web-site
states that Python is "a good glue language". There will never be a language which is the best for every single programmer for every single task.
Java is good for applets. Perl is *outstanding* for jobs that require text processing without a complicated user interface (I've just started
looking into GUI programming with Perl). I have little experience with C++ and no experience with C, but it seems to me that C++ is an excellent
language for building complicated applications from scratch, especially applications in which it is imperative that the programmer have complete
control of every process.
Again, I would refer you to The Tao of Programming Book 1 Section 2 (http://www.nd.edu/~arodrig6/tao/ftao1.htm)
--
Kenny Pearce
Quantum Web Programming
(http://quantum.kennypearce.net)
"Hell - Proud to be powered by Windows NT"
--------------B8007DA97BDEC97BC0F70FCA
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<pre> I haven't used Python or Anvil, but I have read up on Python (I've never heard of anvil before) and It should be noted that the official web-site</pre>
<pre>states that Python is "a good glue language". There will never be a language which is the best for every single programmer for every single task.</pre>
<pre>Java is good for applets. Perl is *outstanding* for jobs that require text processing without a complicated user interface (I've just started</pre>
<pre>looking into GUI programming with Perl). I have little experience with C++ and no experience with C, but it seems to me that C++ is an excellent</pre>
<pre>language for building complicated applications from scratch, especially applications in which it is imperative that the programmer have complete</pre>
<pre>control of every process.</pre>
<pre> Again, I would refer you to <u>The Tao of Programming</u> Book 1 Section 2 (<A HREF="http://www.nd.edu/~arodrig6/tao/ftao1.htm">http://www.nd.edu/~arodrig6/tao/ftao1.htm</A>)</pre>
<pre></pre>
<pre>--
Kenny Pearce
Quantum Web Programming
(<A HREF="http://quantum.kennypearce.net">http://quantum.kennypearce.net</A>)
"Hell - Proud to be powered by Windows NT"</pre>
</html>
--------------B8007DA97BDEC97BC0F70FCA--
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 12:00:49 +0200
From: Jaripekka Salminen <jps@medios.fi>
To: Al Dev <alavoor-nospam@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Language evolution C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is Python the ULTIMATE of languages??)
Message-Id: <3A4DB251.91F6BFE6@medios.fi>
Al Dev wrote:
> Language evolution from C->Perl->C++->Java->Python (Is Python the
> ULTIMATE of languages??)
In the evolution process there are new languages born every year.
Eventually some languages adapt better to new environments
(Internet platform, wireless terminals, etc.) and become widely
used de-facto standard languages.
Let me compare your comments to Anvil, an Internet application language.
> Python seems to be more robust, simple and architecture neutral than
> Java.
Anvil is simple and robust. Its architecture is based on a solid
infrastructure: it runs on the Internet/Java platform.
> Perhaps Python is ultimate programming language which will storm the
> world!!
There is no silver bullet.
>
> Here are some comparisons of Python and Java:
>
> o Three years ago Java was a HOT topic and craze, today Python is a HOT
> topic
> and is craze among programmers world-wide. Java programmers will love
> Python!
Three years from now there will be another hot topic.
That hot topic exists already somewhere, but nobody knows for sure
which of the candidates will become hot in the evolution process.
> o Python is object-oriented language just like Java, suitable for
> very large enterprises and for large projects (millions of lines of
> code).
Anvil is a procedural scripting language. Object-oriented languages are
good for OO-design and systems programming. Modern application languages
are used by application designers and casual programmers, and they are
not necessarily trained in thinking about object oriented concepts.
Both types of languages are necessary:
- object oriented systems programming languages
- scripting application languages
> o Java corrected the mistakes made by C++. And C++ corrected mistakes
> made by C.
> But Java is inferior to Python in many
> technologies (for eg Python implements Multiple inheritance
> and others whereas Java does not).
Anvil does not implement any kind of inheritance.
> o Java is a very complex system - Java virtual machine is quite complex
> and if OS kernel changes (due to updates) then JVM becomes unusable
> Java fails to run properly and crashes. Also developing JVM for
> new versions of OS kernels is very time consuming. Whereas Python
> is written in "C" language and is quite simple and easy to recompile,
> port to various OS and various versions of OS kernels.
Java is a stable platform for new languages.
Anvil is written in Java language, and it does not need to be
recompiled for various operating systems.
Applications written in Anvil language need not be modified either.
> o Python is faster than Java for certain operations but Java is
> faster than Python for other operations. But overall (grand total)
> Python
> is as good as Java. See
> http://www.twistedmatrix.com/~glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html
Anvil is almost as fast as Java, because it creates Java source code,
which is compiled into Java bytecode. The difference in performance
is not significant.
> o Python takes far less RAM memory than Java - If Java takes
> 200 MB to run a program then Python takes only 40 MB
That's good.
> o Python is very robust and very stable as it is completely written in
> "C" and Python is a simple technology.
Anvil is robust and stable because it is completely written in Java.
Anvil is simple yet powerful.
> o Python programs are very small about 1/3 rd the size of Java programs
> for the same task. For example, a project was implemented in Java
> and total number of lines (characters) of the source code was about
> 3000
> lines (approx 120000 characters) and the same project was implemented
> in
> python whose source code was about 1000 lines (approx 40000
> characters).
> Smaller python programs means python code can be maintained better
> than
> Java code.
We made a software project for a customer on a server side application
that has web-based user interface, and server side
communication with messaging servers. It was designed using OO-methods
and UML modeling. It was implemented in server-side Java
and simple presentation templates. In about four man-months
the beta version was completed, and it consisted of about 6000 lines of
Java code, and about 1000 lines of template code.
The customer was satisfied with the results and ordered another
project, which was estimated to be exactly the same effort in work
and in the amount of code. This project was designed by composing
simple function modules, and implemented in Anvil scripting
language and Anvil templates. The beta version contains only
1300 lines of Anvil script, and 1700 lines of template code. The good
news is that the version was delivered to the customer only after one
man-month.
> o Python code is a readable-syntax code, python forces the programmer to
>
> use tabs to mark program-blocks. Where as Java code can be very ugly
> and does not enforce readable-syntax code. Python removes unnecessary
> braces of Java (which clutters the code) and many other syntax which
> make code un-readable.
Anvil uses braces, which are familiar de-facto standard way of
marking program blocks in many languages (C, Java, etc.)
> o Implementing a project in Java takes about 3 times more time than
> Python.
> If it takes 15 days to code in Java then you would take about 5 days
> to
> code in Python. And runtime performance of Python and Java are almost
> same.
Implementing a project in Java takes about 4 times more time than Anvil.
There was no difference in performance. The reliability and
maintainability of the scripting version is better, because the
application
logic is more clearly expressed in a scripting language than
in a system language.
> o Python is GNU/GPL where as Java is proprietary (belongs to Sun
> Microsystems).
Anvil is free. Its licensing has not been decided yet, but anyways,
it is, and will be, freely available for developers.
> o Python is Object oriented from ground up and will supercede Java and
> PERL.
Anvil lives happily with other languages. It seamlessly integrates
any Java code, database query codes, markup codes, etc.
> o Python incorporates the best of Scripting and Systems programming
> language.
> But Java is 100% Systems Programming language (Java is not a scripting
> language).
Scripting languages represent a very different style of programming than
system programming languages. Scripting languages assume
that there already exists a collection of useful components
written in other languages. Scripting languages aren't intended for
writing
applications from scratch; they are intended primarily for
plugging together components. Scripting languages are sometimes referred
to
as glue languages or system integration languages.
Scripting languages and system programming languages are complementary,
and most major computing platforms since the 1960's have
provided both kinds of languages [see: John K. Ousterhout,
"Scripting: Higher Level Programming for the 21st Century," February
1998,
http://www.scriptics.com/people/john.ousterhout/scripting.html ]
> o Probably it is impossible to develop a programming language which is
> better
> than Python. (Is Python the ultimate programming language ????)
Different languages are used by different people for different purposes.
There will not be any ultimate programming language.
> o Python has "TkInter" GUI which runs on MS Windows and Unixes. Write
> once
> in python and run everywhere
Anvil has web/wap GUI which runs on the Internet.
> o Python has Web Application Server at http://www.zope.org comparable to
>
> Java's web application server http://www.enhydra.org
Anvil runs with any modern web application server.
The development environment comes with a complete
web/Java servlet server.
> Python is at http://www.python.org
Anvil is at http://anvil.njet.com
I would like to see some other comparisons to new, not-yet-hot
languages.
Regards,
Jaripekka Salminen
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:43:29 -0800
From: Rocky Raccoon <rrocky@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is this optimal]
Message-Id: <3A5372D1.56563517@bigfoot.com>
egwong@netcom.com wrote:
>
> Rocky Raccoon <rrocky@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> [cut]
>
> > This is what I want to do.
> > Find a particular tag say <XYZ>. Once I find it, go to the
> > next tag, check if its' <ABC> if it is then I want to read some text
> > inside the tag. If it isn't <ABC> I want to find the next <XYZ> whose
> > immdiate next tag is <ABC>.
>
> > Any samples which do something like this ?
>
> I've never used HTML::TreeBuilder, but this pretty much does what you
> want with HTML::Parser.
[snip]
>
> Of course this is all explained in gory detail in the HTML::Parser
> perldocs.
Thanx a lot Eric.
I have a question about the licensing issues of the CPAN modules like
Parser, tagset, etc.
Let's say I have product written in another language say C++ or Visual
Basic.
It's a code generator.
It generates Perl Code (amongs other code it generates, like Java, VB
etc)
which will use these modules. Am I allowed to sell this product ?
Since these modules seem to be under GPL, I am not very clear. Since the
only code
which uses these modules is the code I generate & it's source is the
generated code itself.
Do I also have to distributed the source for my codegenerator/UI etc
which do not use the
modules themselves.
--
Rocky
RSC - http://www.slack.net/~shiva/rsc.html
------------------------------
Date: 03 Jan 2001 14:35:22 -0500
From: Joe Schaefer <joe+usenet@sunstarsys.com>
Subject: Re: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is this optimal]
Message-Id: <m3n1d85szp.fsf@mumonkan.sunstarsys.com>
Rocky Raccoon <rrocky@bigfoot.com> writes:
> > Of course this is all explained in gory detail in
> > the HTML::Parser perldocs.
>
> Thanx a lot Eric.
> I have a question about the licensing issues of the CPAN
> modules like Parser, tagset, etc.
>
> Let's say I have product written in another language say C++
> or Visual Basic.
> It's a code generator.
> It generates Perl Code (amongs other code it generates,
> like Java, VB etc) which will use these modules.
>
> Am I allowed to sell this product ?
Basically, yes.
> Since these modules seem to be under GPL, I am not very clear.
They're under PAL, not GPL. IANAL, but so long as you're not
regenerating the Perl/module libraries themselves and charging
for that, I think you're ok (simply "use"ing them in your code
shouldn't constitute any copyright violation).
% perldoc HTML::Parser
...
COPYRIGHT
Copyright 1996-2000 Gisle Aas. All rights reserved.
Copyright 1999-2000 Michael A. Chase. All rights reserved.
This library is free software; you can redistribute it
and/or modify it under the same terms as Perl itself.
Perl is not GPL'd, but is distributed under the Perl Artistic
License. If you have the perl source, the Perl Artistic License
(PAL) is in a file called Artistic within the main directory.
Otherwise you can find it at
http://www.perl.com/pub/language/misc/Artistic.html
Basically your code belongs to you; just because you wrote it
in Perl doesn't mean you have to make your code freely
redistributable unless you want to. It's your choice.
However, you can't charge for redistributing a perl executable
along with your code, nor for redistributing the HTML::Parser
module, because you didn't write that part. However, the
authors have given you the right to redistribute those things
freely if you wish to.
> Since the only code which uses these modules is the code I
> generate & it's source is the generated code itself. Do I
> also have to distributed the source for my codegenerator/UI
> etc which do not use the modules themselves.
Probably not, as long as it's just *your* Perl code that's being
generated. Again, IANAL. It wouldn't hurt much to ask a lawyer,
though.
--
Joe Schaefer
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 22:01:33 -0000
From: Chris Stith <mischief@velma.motion.net>
Subject: Re: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is this optimal]
Message-Id: <t5789tibhqu318@corp.supernews.com>
Joe Schaefer <joe+usenet@sunstarsys.com> wrote:
> Rocky Raccoon <rrocky@bigfoot.com> writes:
>> > Of course this is all explained in gory detail in
>> > the HTML::Parser perldocs.
>>
>> Thanx a lot Eric.
>> I have a question about the licensing issues of the CPAN
>> modules like Parser, tagset, etc.
Many of these state their licensing terms. Most allow
you to use Larry's Artistic License.
>>
>> Let's say I have product written in another language say C++
>> or Visual Basic.
>> It's a code generator.
>> It generates Perl Code (amongs other code it generates,
>> like Java, VB etc) which will use these modules.
>>
>> Am I allowed to sell this product ?
> Basically, yes.
I don't see why not. The code you write is yours. As long as
it only uses the other code and does not derive from it, you
should be fine.
>> Since these modules seem to be under GPL, I am not very clear.
You can actually sell stuff that is GPLed. You just have to offer
the source code along with the binary, and can't keep the person
you sell it to from redistributing new code derived from that.
From the Preamble to the GPL licensing document:
When we speak of free software, we are referring to freedom,
not price. Our General Public Licenses are designed to make
sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free
software (and charge for this service if you wish), that you
receive source code or can get it if you want it, that you
can change the software or use pieces of it in new free
programs; and that you know you can do these things.
> They're under PAL, not GPL. IANAL, but so long as you're not
> regenerating the Perl/module libraries themselves and charging
> for that, I think you're ok (simply "use"ing them in your code
> shouldn't constitute any copyright violation).
I would offer your code and the libraries it needs as separate
files just to be parano... er, safe. Just make a page with links
to copies of everything needed, and let the user know they need
the modules and Perl.
> % perldoc HTML::Parser
> ...
> COPYRIGHT
> Copyright 1996-2000 Gisle Aas. All rights reserved.
> Copyright 1999-2000 Michael A. Chase. All rights reserved.
> This library is free software; you can redistribute it
> and/or modify it under the same terms as Perl itself.
> Perl is not GPL'd, but is distributed under the Perl Artistic
> License. If you have the perl source, the Perl Artistic License
> (PAL) is in a file called Artistic within the main directory.
> Otherwise you can find it at
> http://www.perl.com/pub/language/misc/Artistic.html
Perl is technically avilable under both the Artistic License
OR the GPL, depending upon which you wish to use. Therefore,
although IANAL, I'd say that you could take the less
restrictive wording from one as a set intersection. The
reason for this is that by specifying both licenses, Larry
allows you basically a union of the rights in both. Since
the less stringent wording of one would supercede the other,
you get a set of the less restrictive wordings.
> Basically your code belongs to you; just because you wrote it
> in Perl doesn't mean you have to make your code freely
> redistributable unless you want to. It's your choice.
True. It might be a good idea to point out in your license
document that although you make use of free programs that
your program is not free. Better yet, it would be great if
you sold the program and support for it but make it GPL or
similar to the GPL license so that someone else can help you
fix bugs and make improvements, although you run the slight
risk of someone branching and competing with your product
using your own code. The GPL _does_NOT_require_ that you
give your software away without monetary charge. The big
money spent on software is usually for the reputation of the
entity from which it is obtained or for the support with
which it is provided. You can charge for software that your
customers can redistribute without support. You can also,
under the GPL, distribute binaries without source and offer
to make the source code avilable only upon request. Read
section (3), subsection (b) -- at least in the copy I'm
referencing -- for details.
> However, you can't charge for redistributing a perl executable
> along with your code, nor for redistributing the HTML::Parser
> module, because you didn't write that part. However, the
> authors have given you the right to redistribute those things
> freely if you wish to.
Now, this is the sticky part: Do you distribute the others
for free in the same archive file as the portions for which
you charge? I'd offer them in separate files avilable on the
same medium or on the same site.
>> Since the only code which uses these modules is the code I
>> generate & it's source is the generated code itself. Do I
>> also have to distributed the source for my codegenerator/UI
>> etc which do not use the modules themselves.
Short answer: no.
> Probably not, as long as it's just *your* Perl code that's being
> generated. Again, IANAL. It wouldn't hurt much to ask a lawyer,
> though.
As always, legal advice is always best asked of a lawyer.
Chris
--
Christopher E. Stith
Try not. Do, or do not. The Force is binary. -- Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back (paraphrased)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:20:47 -0800
From: Rocky Raccoon <rrocky@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: Licensing issues [ was Re: Searching for tags - Is this optimal]
Message-Id: <3A53C1DF.53AC206E@bigfoot.com>
Chris Stith wrote:
> True. It might be a good idea to point out in your license
> document that although you make use of free programs that
> your program is not free.
Actually, I am more worried about the "source distribution part"
rather than the free part. There is noway I can give away source free
for my product, even if I could allow my product to be used free of
charge.
--
Rocky
RSC - http://www.slack.net/~shiva/rsc.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 17:13:58 +0100
From: Christian Tawfik <toughiq@i-one.at>
Subject: login fails - dbi:sybase -> mssql 7.0
Message-Id: <fpdp4tks0nfs8vce4h9gebub8bofm04n13@4ax.com>
hi,
i established a connection from my solaris box to my nt sql 7 server.
using: freetds & DBD::Sybase.
but the connection is always closed by the sql server:
logfile:
--- Connection opened but invalid login packet(s) sent. Connection
closed.
my statement:
$dsn = "dbi:Sybase:server=mssql;database=$DATABASE;";
$dbh = DBI->connect ($dsn, $user, $password)
or die "Failed to connect: $DBI::errstr\n";
are there parameters i also have to submit for mssql to authorize
me???
thanx for your help.
bye chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:49:31 +0100
From: Alexander Farber <Alexander.Farber@t-online.de>
Subject: Re: login fails - dbi:sybase -> mssql 7.0
Message-Id: <3A4E829B.D314E060@t-online.de>
Christian Tawfik wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> i established a connection from my solaris box to my nt sql 7 server.
> using: freetds & DBD::Sybase.
>
> but the connection is always closed by the sql server:
>
> logfile:
> --- Connection opened but invalid login packet(s) sent. Connection
> closed.
Don't you need smth like FreeTDS
( http://www.freetds.org )? I am not sure though
--
http://home.t-online.de/home/Alexander.Farber/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 15:05:11 +0100
From: "Ralf Siedow" <replynews@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Looking for example ICQ using Net::ICQ
Message-Id: <92vbim$8an70$1@ID-23826.news.dfncis.de>
Hi,
I'm just trying to set up a simple icq client that sends messages to an UIN
but it fails.
Can someone send a copy of his script to me or tell me what I'm making wrong
in this script:
!/usr/bin/perl
#use strict;
use Net::ICQ;
my $icq;
print "failed: $!" unless($icq = Net::ICQ->new('put a UIN here', 'put your
password here'));
$icq->{_debug} = 1;
my $params = {'type' => 1,
'text' => 'Hello world',
'receiver_uin' => 60896207
};
$icq->send_event('CMD_SEND_MESSAGE', $params);
$icq->start;
#while(!quit){ $icq->do_one_loop(); }
$icq->disconnect;
------------------------------
Date: 31 Dec 2000 20:08:16 GMT
From: tarael200@aol.com (Tarael200)
Subject: Looking for TELNET handler
Message-Id: <20001231150816.20010.00000039@ng-mk1.aol.com>
Hello everyone,
I've been doing server-sockets programming, and I'm curious if there is a
module that can handle the telnet protocol on the server-side. I know
Net::Telnet exists for creating client-connections that handle telnet, and yes,
I could rip out the code in there and put it as a module for use by my server,
but Net::Telnet is 4500 lines of code :) That's to much work for casual use..
and I don't want to recreate it if something else already exists.
Anyone? :)
-Malander
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 21:16:47 GMT
From: garry@zvolve.com (Garry Williams)
Subject: Re: Looking for TELNET handler
Message-Id: <3nN36.148$Dm5.8528@eagle.america.net>
On 31 Dec 2000 20:08:16 GMT, Tarael200 <tarael200@aol.com> wrote:
>I've been doing server-sockets programming, and I'm curious if there
>is a module that can handle the telnet protocol on the server-side.
>I know Net::Telnet exists for creating client-connections that handle
>telnet, and yes, I could rip out the code in there and put it as a
>module for use by my server, but Net::Telnet is 4500 lines of code :)
>That's to much work for casual use.. and I don't want to recreate it
>if something else already exists.
Assuming this isn't an X-Y problem, you can use IO::Socket::INET and
behave as specified in RFC 854.
I suspect my assumption is wrong, though.
--
Garry Williams
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 22:37:09 GMT
From: Dan Zerkle <zerkle@home.com>
Subject: Looking up TCP/UDP port information?
Message-Id: <3A510775.A4AFB637@home.com>
Given a TCP or UDP port number, what is the best Perlish way get
more information about that connection? The process ID number of
the owner of the port would, in theory, be enough, as I could get
most of the required information from the process table.
The purpose of this is to use Perl duplicate much of the
functionality of lsof for Irix (on which lsof does not run).
(Note: I checked the FAQ and books and found nothing about
this.)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 5232
**************************************
