[16800] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4212 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Sep 2 21:10:36 2000
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 18:10:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <967943424-v9-i4212@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 2 Sep 2000 Volume: 9 Number: 4212
Today's topics:
Sony Versus Microsoft pohanl@my-deja.com
Re: Sony Versus Microsoft <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: Sony Versus Microsoft <dietmar.staab@t-online.de>
Re: Sony Versus Microsoft <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: Sony Versus Microsoft <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Re: Sony Versus Microsoft (Tony L. Svanstrom)
Re: source code for newsgroups functionality (Colin Keith)
Re: using unix commands within perl script <2flyrc@cei.net>
what does @$_ do? <d.gardenier@iae.nl>
Re: what does @$_ do? (Jakob Schmidt)
Re: what does @$_ do? (Abigail)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:31:21 GMT
From: pohanl@my-deja.com
Subject: Sony Versus Microsoft
Message-Id: <8orv3p$gnd$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
As we all know. One of the major wars in coming in the video
gaming industry. Microsoft Versus Sony.
Specifically, XBox vs Playstation2.
Both are revered competitors in their own right.
Microsoft basically wiped out all the competitors. They have
a basic strong strategy of defend and expand. Take what you have,
expand it into other markets. Tie those other markets into your main
product line (a monopoly others don't have and can't create).
Like Windows. People need a place to run external applications.
Make other products fail on your platform each time you release
a new product. (other products need a place to live right? No
place to live, the product dies). This happened to AOL on Win2K.
Microsoft basically uses a 7 step process to eliminate a competitor.
1) Emulate all the features in the next competing product release and
add more.
2) Incorporate it free into next windows release.
3) Cripple competitor's software (make certain changes to the next
release of windows so competitor's product can't run without patches)
4) Force partners to not sell or support competitor' product
5) Force competitor's product's partners to drop them and go with
Microsoft (either through money or other incentives)
6) Hire away all their top people.
7) Buy them up.
How does a company survive this type of onslaught? We know for sure
that 1) 2) 3) are very important things to worry about. The rest
can be solved through the government (wich Sun, Netscape, and others
tried). In order for compensate for 1), a company must have bright
engineers, and keep them! They must be given free reign to think up
new features (evolve the platform) in internet time, rather than wait
for go ahead from others. If new features are not incorporated into
the product, Microsoft will basically use their bigger resource of
engineers to emulate every single feature. For 2) there is nothing
you can basically do because once it is free your product is not needed
anymore. That is why 1) is important. There must be something in
your product that prevents an exact emulation by Microsoft. (is it
patented? Like RSA encryption. Does it require technology that you
can only license?) If these are not available, then you basically
have to evolve the product in internet time... meaning it had better
have more releases than the average person can keep up. With each
release demoing more features. If this is sustained at a rate of
every month, this becomes a viable force in itself so that it is a
self-sustaining marketing movement, which will drown competing
product's marketing strategies. For 3) this is a difficult one
to decide. If the new operating system is going to be massively
used by the people, then you are in trouble. Your product needs
a place to live in. If you can't have a place to live, you die!
There is a movement for linux apple and other operating systems,
and if your product has enough demand then people will buy your product
along with the operating system. Otherwise, the product must use
standard API's in the windows operating system (basic plumbing that
microsoft will not and cannot change with each windows release).
During this marketing war, your product must find stable footing
across differing territories. Find a way to incorporate a whole
Operating System into the product so that windows is not needed.
Once the product has enough demand, windows is not needed, and people
will buy the product for its worth.
Sony we all know is also a big competitor. Every market that Sony
entered, they dominated. They have only lost once (on the Betamax),
but other than that their record is clean. They came into the
video market scene with sega and nintendo holding virtually 90+
percent of the market. Now Sony is #1. Takes a lot of good
marketing skills to achieve that. Sony seems to be extremely
good with marketing to the consumers and getting deals with retailers.
Have you ever been to an electronics store with no section dedicated
to Sony? They usually are the biggest. They usually have the
latest technical gadgets. When Sony entered the notebook pc market,
they were nowhere with Toshiba out in front. Now Sony's are in
every computer store, and selling more than other notebooks. Sony
seems to understand the consumer more than any other company. They
invent the standards and force others out of the market through their
sheer marketing skills and their connections with dealers.
So what will happen when Microsoft and Sony collide? They each are
in a territory where each has a weakness...
Microsoft is new to the video game market, with its proprietory
hardware.
Sony is usually good with hardware, and software is something it is
just getting used to with the Playstation and PS2.
But both have endless resources to tap to fight in this market.
Microsoft will try to use it's leverage of the current gaming
industry on windows and move them to the XBox (they all currently
run on top of windows anyways, so having faster hardware only makes
them better). This is a very strong leverage.
Sony will simply try to outmaneuver people making XBox's in the
dealer's shelves. They have other electronics in there to provide
them with this leverage. If people only see Playstation 2 (or 3),
they will not buy XBox. Sony is after the consumers, so you will
see them in every store imaginable, while Microsoft is usually
more familiar with computer stores.
Technology wise, it looks like Sony and Microsoft are unmatched.
Sony can invent and copy and reengineer to make cheap. For them
to take on sega and nintendo and still win, you have to realize
their extremely strong marketing base and technological merits.
Microsoft we all know is a good competitor in its own right. But
right now it is dependent on others to make the box. Sony may
be able to take advantage of this but it may also make them weak
because the PC compatible market basically drove out all the other
PC's except Apple (which almost died as well).
My bet on who is going to win? Hard to say. I would say initially
two markets will be created. Sony will get the consumer market,
while the XBox becomes more the PC compatible gaming market. But
later, as the XBox becomes cheaper and cheaper (as compatible
PC's are getting cheaper and cheaper these days) it will attract
the consumer market Sony has. The major base of software makers
will take advantage of this market and make more and more games.
By this time Sony, with its reach in almost every dealer's shelves
will have penetrated a majority of the gaming market and moving their
territory into the PC market with their notebooks and pc's. They
may end up making an XBox type machine and drive all other hardware
competitors away (like the deal with WebTv consoles). More likely
they will create a PS3 or PS4 that more and more resembles a PC,
and make an API layer easier for the software developers to write
games for that machine. Remember competing with Sony on consumers
end is almost suicidal. The PS2 is not going away. They make the
best CD players, Walkmans, stereo equiptment, TV's, etc etc. Each
market they enter they basically drown out other hardware manufaturers.
PC manufacturers making XBox's for the consumers will basically be
wiped out in the dealer's shelves if competing one-on-one with sony.
It is their hope that the windows market will be a big enough market
to shift the focus of the consumers at large to go with a different
platform (the PC platform). In the long run its a marketing war
between run-of-the-mill consumers and computer video market.
(that is the current market anyways, with playstation and PC games
each having a big market in its own). As microsoft moves into
Sony's territory, we'll see how Sony responds on its PC initiatives.
Remember Sony has licenses for Palm Os, is doing a Linux PC, has
its own operating system, has its own PC software suite (Smart Write,
Smart this, Smart that. etc etc), has the top selling notebooks,
and its large base of technology (memory stick, jog dial, iLink).
This is going to be something to watch. What Sony CAN do, and they
CAN (believe me they can), they can market a user-friendly consumer
PC running their own operating system (or linux). Include in it their
own software applications (like Microsoft has), and basically
create a whole new market. Remember they did that with the CD player,
the walkman, the Video camera market, the digital camera market,
etc etc. Their reach into the consumer market is extremely strong.
Like Microsoft has a very strong reach into the computer market.
Sony is also getting into the soft market. They have columbia
pictures and tristar, and is making their own movies. They
have moved into the PC territory and is making a strong lead in
the Notebook market, and if that succeeds as it has, they will
miniaturize it to the point where you have a walkPC (instead of a
walkman). And competing with Sony on miniturization is suicidal.
So the XBox and Playstation2 (3?) is something that is going to
change the marketplace in the very near future. If Sony
decides to put an operating system on top of the PlayStation2,
and attach a keyboard and PC monitor input, that would literally
overnight create a new computer market, and overtake Apple.
They are different from Commodore Amiga, Atari, and Tandy. They
have the money, the market penetration, and technology, and
the connections. Sony creates markets. Microsoft extends its
markets into areas others have started.
Now what does this have to do with Perl? Well, creating games
in perl is something that needs to be addresed because perl
is too text based....
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:59:58 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: Sony Versus Microsoft
Message-Id: <x7lmxao0wh.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "p" == pohanl <pohanl@my-deja.com> writes:
p> Now what does this have to do with Perl? Well, creating games in
p> perl is something that needs to be addresed because perl is too
p> text based....
huh?? you should go on a date with moronzilla. she charges very little
and thinks like you do.
uri
--
Uri Guttman --------- uri@sysarch.com ---------- http://www.sysarch.com
SYStems ARCHitecture, Software Engineering, Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
The Perl Books Page ----------- http://www.sysarch.com/cgi-bin/perl_books
The Best Search Engine on the Net ---------- http://www.northernlight.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 01:19:59 +0100
From: "Dietmar Staab" <dietmar.staab@t-online.de>
Subject: Re: Sony Versus Microsoft
Message-Id: <8os23e$vsr$11$1@news.t-online.com>
In article <x7lmxao0wh.fsf@home.sysarch.com>, Uri Guttman
<uri@sysarch.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "p" == pohanl <pohanl@my-deja.com> writes:
>
> p> Now what does this have to do with Perl? Well, creating games in
> p> perl is something that needs to be addresed because perl is too p>
> text based....
>
> huh?? you should go on a date with moronzilla.
whose postings don't make much sense to me - but they are either long ;-)
> she charges very little
for what? you've tried? ;-)
D.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 23:35:43 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: Sony Versus Microsoft
Message-Id: <x7g0ninz8v.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "DS" == Dietmar Staab <dietmar.staab@t-online.de> writes:
>> she charges very little
DS> for what? you've tried? ;-)
no. but her email address is callgirl. and we know how stupid she
is. call it an obvious guess.
uri
--
Uri Guttman --------- uri@sysarch.com ---------- http://www.sysarch.com
SYStems ARCHitecture, Software Engineering, Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
The Perl Books Page ----------- http://www.sysarch.com/cgi-bin/perl_books
The Best Search Engine on the Net ---------- http://www.northernlight.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:49:12 -0700
From: "Godzilla!" <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
Subject: Re: Sony Versus Microsoft
Message-Id: <39B1A008.A5DA836F@stomp.stomp.tokyo>
pohanl@my-deja.com wrote:
(snippage of capitalism thoughts)
Life in a Supply and Demand world is a cut throat
existence. Either you are willing to cut throats
to stand upon the top of Mule Manure Mountain or,
you are not, and reside within hillside homes if
not within outwash basins.
Most people live in rat cages; high rise apartments.
Our little family resides upon eight acres of
hilltop island paradise, surrounded by city.
We are quite the non-conformists and have elected
to not cut throats but rather earn money with
wise investments and a modest lifestyle.
Microsoft, Sony, Netscape, all the same. Just a
bunch of egotistical boys playing King of the
Mule Manure Mountain while missing out on what
is truly important; life.
> Now what does this have to do with Perl? Well, creating games
> in perl is something that needs to be addresed because perl
> is too text based....
This is quite impossible. Perl is too slow and uses too
much memory. Perl is not adaptable to high speed, high
resolution, fast action games.
Best games I know of written in Perl, at a risk of sounding
arrogant if not egotistical, are my own. After several years
of searching our net, looking, watching, asking, I found no
other programs like mine, not even attempts at what I have
done with Perl; graphical draw poker and living breathing
highly intelligent androids most capable of Natural Language
Emulation to a degree of ability to write fairly impressive
poetry along with holding stimulating conversations with
visitors, whom often accuse my androids of being either
my daughter or myself. Actually they are my daughter.
There is a blackjack game out there floating around. Not so
bad, does ok. Not very graphical however, but decent. I do
have a blackjack game written in Perl, very graphical, some
sound effects. It is not too awfully slow but eats up memory
like our raccoons do cookies. It is not all this adaptable
to our web. With each hand dealt, memory consumption and
a need to write data files, grows almost exponentially.
Perl is powerful like a steam roller but not sleek and
fast like our Corvette Mako Sharks. Perl simply is not
a gaming language.
Godzilla!
--
@© = (a .. z); @® = qw (7 15 4 26 9 12 12 1 18 15 3 11 19);
srand(time() ^ ($$ + ($$ << 15))); for ($§ = $®[$®[0]]; $§ < $®[0]; $§++)
{ sub G { rand(1000) < 500 ? "\u$1" : "\l$1" ; } foreach $¿ (@®)
{ $¢ = $©[$¿-1]; $¢ =~ s¡([a-z])¡G($1)¡gie; $Ø = "$Ø$¢"; }
$Ø ="$Ø! "; $ø = substr ($Ø, $®[12] - $®[11], 0, " ");
$Ø =~ s¯(a)(r)¯$1 $2¯i; print "$Ø\n"; } exit;
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 02:53:18 +0200
From: tony@svanstrom.com (Tony L. Svanstrom)
Subject: Re: Sony Versus Microsoft
Message-Id: <1egd3x4.ohbrsn16ngbswN%tony@svanstrom.com>
Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> wrote:
> >>>>> "p" == pohanl <pohanl@my-deja.com> writes:
>
> p> Now what does this have to do with Perl? Well, creating games in
> p> perl is something that needs to be addresed because perl is too
> p> text based....
>
> huh?? you should go on a date with moronzilla. she charges very little
> and thinks like you do.
You gotta love the idea, though, it's so "a manager came up with this"
that I almost want to print and frame it... First you take a perfectly
working product that people love and that is great for what it's meant
to, and then you try to turn it into something it isn't just to compete
within a market where it doesn't belong, simply because that market
exists.
/Tony
--
/\___/\ Who would you like to read your messages today? /\___/\
\_@ @_/ Protect your privacy: <http://www.pgpi.com/> \_@ @_/
--oOO-(_)-OOo---------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo--
on the verge of frenzy - i think my mask of sanity is about to slip
---ôôô---ôôô-----------------------------------------------ôôô---ôôô---
\O/ \O/ ©99-00 <http://www.svanstrom.com/?ref=news> \O/ \O/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:58:24 GMT
From: newsgroups@ckeith.clara.net (Colin Keith)
Subject: Re: source code for newsgroups functionality
Message-Id: <m5cs5.3499$6A2.317546@nnrp4.clara.net>
In article <020920001222300624%brian+usenet@smithrenaud.com>, brian d foy <brian+usenet@smithrenaud.com> wrote:
>there are modules for NNTP on CPAN. there's no need to tell someone to
>play with TCP/IP.
No, you're entirely correct. Lets see what's on offer..
Net::NNTP - NNTP Client class
News::NNTPClient - Perl 5 module to talk to NNTP (RFC977) server
News::Article - Object for handling Usenet articles in mail or news form.
News::Newsrc VERSION 1.07 - manage newsrc files
In fact the only module on CPAN I can find that's an NNTP server (at least
using "NNTP" in the search facility there) is:
NNML::Server - a minimal NNTP server
It depends what's wanted of course. I mean just searching the text of the
CPAN archives for NNTP might not be enough to find a module that is a
complete NNTP server, it might be that there is one there. It might also be
that the person might actually want to learn about how it works.
You know spawning child processes via fork() or open(), why you might want to
poll from sockets. Perhaps tying technologies together so they can
authenticate users via DBI, or using tie() to their owwn DB format.
But you know, no need to tell anyone that... *snort*
Col.
---
Colin Keith
Systems Administrator
Network Operations Team
ClaraNET (UK) Ltd. NOC
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 19:10:08 -0500
From: "Dennis Peacock" <2flyrc@cei.net>
Subject: Re: using unix commands within perl script
Message-Id: <%Hgs5.101$%b1.25871476@typhoon.cei.net>
You are correct Johan......
system("COMMAND");
works like a charm. I am doing this in a perl script to assist end-users in
doing ftp between server to server (Unix based) and Unix to MainFrame. I
have not completed the script to the nth detail yet but at least I have
something working.
Thanks,
Dennis
"Johan Brattemark" <johan.brattemark@net2000.ch> wrote in message
news:8opbk0$2od$1@news.swissonline.ch...
>
> "Emma Stoten" <E.L.Stoten@ncl.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:39AFC0CD.4243F90@ncl.ac.uk...
> > I'm trying to use a unix command within a perl script:
> >
> > system(`COMMAND`);
> >
> > I've tried using all three types of quotes, and still it doesn't work
> > when executed. The command works at the command line and -c and -w
> > options don't shed any light.
> >
> > I've exhausted all other lines of enquiry and hope someone can offer
> > some advice.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Emma Stoten
>
> I think you should user either
> $now = `COMMAND`;
> or
> system("COMMAND")
>
> Johan
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 20:53:37 +0200
From: "Durk Gardenier" <d.gardenier@iae.nl>
Subject: what does @$_ do?
Message-Id: <8ori7p$rfs$1@news.IAEhv.nl>
I have tried to find this for quite some time now.
In a program source I found the following construction.
@sentence =("as",Ï","drive", "to", "the","junction");
...
printoutput (@sentence );
sub printoutput {
foreach ( @_ ) {
print OUTPUT " @$_ ";
}
print OUTPUT "\n";
}
I do not understand the line: print OUTPUT " @$_ ";
Also it does not seem to do anything on my Windows 98 Perl
compiler.
What is the function of print OUTPUT " @$_ ";?
Thanks,
Durk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 21:04:36 +0200
From: sumus@aut.dk (Jakob Schmidt)
Subject: Re: what does @$_ do?
Message-Id: <1egcnt6.btypw5r8hj2pN@[192.168.88.117]>
Durk Gardenier <d.gardenier@iae.nl> wrote:
> foreach ( @_ ) {
> print OUTPUT " @$_ ";
@$_ dereferences $_ as an array reference.
If the above code is to work, @_ must contain array references.
--
Jakob
------------------------------
Date: 02 Sep 2000 16:25:58 EDT
From: abigail@foad.org (Abigail)
Subject: Re: what does @$_ do?
Message-Id: <slrn8r2ofh.8ac.abigail@alexandra.foad.org>
Durk Gardenier (d.gardenier@iae.nl) wrote on MMDLIX September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:8ori7p$rfs$1@news.IAEhv.nl>:
,, I have tried to find this for quite some time now.
,,
,, In a program source I found the following construction.
,,
,,
,, @sentence =("as",Ï","drive", "to", "the","junction");
Eh, there are an odd number of quotes in the above line.
,, ...
,, printoutput (@sentence );
,,
,, sub printoutput {
,, foreach ( @_ ) {
,, print OUTPUT " @$_ ";
,, }
,, print OUTPUT "\n";
,, }
Well, either you didn't show all relevant code (and you aren't use strict),
or the code isn't quite how you wrote it here.
,, I do not understand the line: print OUTPUT " @$_ ";
@$_ will take, $_, treat it as a reference to an array, and return the
array $_ is referencing.
,, Also it does not seem to do anything on my Windows 98 Perl
,, compiler.
Well, the Perl compiler is still experimental.
,, What is the function of print OUTPUT " @$_ ";?
See above.
Abigail
--
perl -Mstrict -we '$_ = "goto X.print chop;\n=rekcaH lreP rehtona tsuJ";X1:eval'
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 4212
**************************************
