[16167] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3579 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Jul 10 17:43:26 2000
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:43:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <963265394-v9-i3579@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 10 Jul 2000 Volume: 9 Number: 3579
Today's topics:
Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <iltzu@sci.invalid>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <iltzu@sci.invalid>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Tad McClellan)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (brian d foy)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Tad McClellan)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Eric Bohlman)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Charles DeRykus)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Charles DeRykus)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <nnickee@nnickee.com>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Bart Lateur)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <bcaligari@shipreg.com>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Reini Urban)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Reini Urban)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Tad McClellan)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <iltzu@sci.invalid>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (HermDog)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (HermDog)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Keith Calvert Ivey)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Eric Bohlman)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (HermDog)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (HermDog)
Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new) (Bbirthisel)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 2000 08:45:20 GMT
From: Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid>
Subject: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <962958361.17858@itz.pp.sci.fi>
In article <3964f3e5@news-uk.onetel.net.uk>, Peter Barrett wrote:
>As for your latter point about being 100% off topic, I can only say that I
>see no FAQ stating this newsgroup's topic limits, indeed I point you to the
>word 'misc' at the end of comp.lang.perl.misc. I consider my posting was
Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should certainly
include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's name. This is what
I came up in five minutes, any comments or improvements are welcome:
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: FAQ: Should I post in comp.lang.perl.misc?
Q1: What is on topic for this group?
A1: comp.*
this is a forum about computers
comp.lang.*
this is a forum about computer languages
comp.lang.perl.*
this is a forum about the Perl computer language
comp.lang.perl.misc
this is a forum about miscellaneous things relating to
the Perl computer language
"miscellaneous" here does not mean "any damn thing you want".
Q2: What should I do before posting a question here?
A2: 1. Study netiquette.
2. Search the Perl FAQ using 'perldoc -q'.
3. Search CPAN at http://search.cpan.org/
4. Search the WWW at http://www.google.com/
5. Search Usenet at http://www.deja.com/ or http://www.remarq.com/
6. Try figuring out the answer yourself.
Note: I'm not at all sure if a regular FAQ post would be a good idea
here. Relevent arguments for both sides can be found using step 5 in
the above list. I just started wondering what should be in such a
post if there were one.
--
Ilmari Karonen - http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/
"The screwdriver *is* the portable method." -- Abigail
Please ignore Godzilla and its pseudonyms - do not feed the troll.
------------------------------
Date: 07 Jul 2000 02:04:58 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <m1puoqjop1.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Ilmari" == Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid> writes:
Ilmari> Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should certainly
Ilmari> include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's name. This is what
Ilmari> I came up in five minutes, any comments or improvements are welcome:
What's wrong with Tom Phoenix's mini-FAQ that is frequently posted?
<sigh>
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 2000 10:32:52 GMT
From: Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <962965448.268@itz.pp.sci.fi>
In article <m1puoqjop1.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
>>>>>> "Ilmari" == Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid> writes:
>Ilmari> Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should certainly
>Ilmari> include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's name. This is what
>Ilmari> I came up in five minutes, any comments or improvements are welcome:
>
>What's wrong with Tom Phoenix's mini-FAQ that is frequently posted?
Lack of caffeine, mostly. I should've checked, but I just assumed
that since the OP claimed not to have seen a FAQ post, and since I
didn't see one either - because I'd read it once quite a while ago and
then put the subject in my killfile - that meant there was none.
Still, looking at them now I'd say they're not much more comparable
than apples and oranges. They focus on two different issues, as is
easily seen by comparing their subject lines.
--
Ilmari Karonen - http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/
"The screwdriver *is* the portable method." -- Abigail
Please ignore Godzilla and its pseudonyms - do not feed the troll.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:01:24 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <x7u2e2oror.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>>>>> "Ilmari" == Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid> writes:
Ilmari> Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should
Ilmari> certainly include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's
Ilmari> name. This is what I came up in five minutes, any comments or
Ilmari> improvements are welcome:
RLS> What's wrong with Tom Phoenix's mini-FAQ that is frequently posted?
tom's doesn't describe this group but rather where to get perl info. i
like ilmari's idea. it needs a little cleaning up and expansion (but not
too much). and it should be autoposted very often, at least every 2 days
to catch all the newbies and maybe every day. and it needs a very good
subject line to attract their eye and get them to read it. that is the
hardest part.
uri
--
Uri Guttman --------- uri@sysarch.com ---------- http://www.sysarch.com
SYStems ARCHitecture, Software Engineering, Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
The Perl Books Page ----------- http://www.sysarch.com/cgi-bin/perl_books
The Best Search Engine on the Net ---------- http://www.northernlight.com
------------------------------
Date: 07 Jul 2000 09:28:08 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <m1u2e1j46f.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Uri" == Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> writes:
Uri> tom's doesn't describe this group but rather where to get perl info. i
Uri> like ilmari's idea. it needs a little cleaning up and expansion (but not
Uri> too much). and it should be autoposted very often, at least every 2 days
Uri> to catch all the newbies and maybe every day. and it needs a very good
Uri> subject line to attract their eye and get them to read it. that is the
Uri> hardest part.
Let's just add that to rootbeer's post then. I'm sure he'll accept
patches. No point in having multiple mini-FAQs. :)
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:35:34 GMT
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <x7r995q4ob.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>>>>> "Uri" == Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> writes:
Uri> tom's doesn't describe this group but rather where to get perl info. i
Uri> like ilmari's idea. it needs a little cleaning up and expansion (but not
Uri> too much). and it should be autoposted very often, at least every 2 days
Uri> to catch all the newbies and maybe every day. and it needs a very good
Uri> subject line to attract their eye and get them to read it. that is the
Uri> hardest part.
RLS> Let's just add that to rootbeer's post then. I'm sure he'll accept
RLS> patches. No point in having multiple mini-FAQs. :)
ok by me. but the subject should be improved i think and it needs to be
posted more frequently. the subject should attract newbies (to the group in
particular and to perl in general) like php attracts morons. :-)
how about:
Subject: README: Mini-FAQ for Newbies to this group and to Perl
or
Subject: MAKE $$$ FAST WITH PERL!
i wonder which will attract more readers?
uri
--
Uri Guttman --------- uri@sysarch.com ---------- http://www.sysarch.com
SYStems ARCHitecture, Software Engineering, Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
The Perl Books Page ----------- http://www.sysarch.com/cgi-bin/perl_books
The Best Search Engine on the Net ---------- http://www.northernlight.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 12:10:32 -0400
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8mc07o.m16.tadmc@magna.metronet.com>
On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:01:24 GMT, Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>
>>>>>> "Ilmari" == Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid> writes:
>
> Ilmari> Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should
> Ilmari> certainly include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's
> Ilmari> name. This is what I came up in five minutes, any comments or
> Ilmari> improvements are welcome:
>
> RLS> What's wrong with Tom Phoenix's mini-FAQ that is frequently posted?
>
>tom's doesn't describe this group but rather where to get perl info. i
>like ilmari's idea.
<aol>
Me too!
</aol>
>it needs a little cleaning up
If this goes forward, please amend my
"miscellaneous" here does not mean "any damn thing you want"
into
"miscellaneous" here does not mean "anything you want"
:-)
>and it needs a very good
>subject line to attract their eye and get them to read it. that is the
>hardest part.
Subject: How to get expert Perl consulting FOR FREE!
with the added benefit that, after reading it once, you can
kill on "FREE!" and lose spam as well :-)
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:20:07 -0400
From: brian@smithrenaud.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <brian-ya02408000R0707001320070001@news.panix.com>
In article <x7r995q4ob.fsf@home.sysarch.com>, Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> posted:
> Subject: README: Mini-FAQ for Newbies to this group and to Perl
i suggest
"README: How to not get flamed"
but i think it should be a part of rootbeer's post so that it cuts
down on the number of posts the newbies ignore ;)
--
brian d foy
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://www.smithrenaud.com/public/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.perl.org/>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:32:12 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <3966141C.7204D3BB@attglobal.net>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>
> the subject should attract newbies (to the group in
> particular and to perl in general) like php attracts morons. :-)
I like PHP.
>
> how about:
>
> Subject: README: Mini-FAQ for Newbies to this group and to Perl
>
> or
>
> Subject: MAKE $$$ FAST WITH PERL!
>
> i wonder which will attract more readers?
>
How about: "How to use Perl to hack XXX sites!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:46:45 -0400
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8mc5s5.mfq.tadmc@magna.metronet.com>
On Fri, 07 Jul 2000 13:32:12 -0400, Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Uri Guttman wrote:
>>
>> the subject should attract newbies (to the group in
>> particular and to perl in general) like php attracts morons. :-)
>
>I like PHP.
>
... must resist ...
... the urge to mention ...
... how that reinforces Uri's point.
heh, heh.
(I fear I failed to resist sufficiently. Sorry Drew.)
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:01:57 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <39662925.F6CD3223@attglobal.net>
Tad McClellan wrote:
>
> >> particular and to perl in general) like php attracts morons. :-)
> >
> >I like PHP.
> >
>
> ... must resist ...
>
> ... the urge to mention ...
>
> ... how that reinforces Uri's point.
>
> heh, heh.
>
> (I fear I failed to resist sufficiently. Sorry Drew.)
>
(ouch!)
/
0 0 . o O (Take that, you whippersnapper!)
\|/ (|)
| |
/ \ / \
Man, I'm an artist! (and pretty bored)
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 2000 21:25:58 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <8k5ht6$qd4$3@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>
Ilmari Karonen (iltzu@sci.invalid) wrote:
: Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should certainly
: include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's name. This is what
: I came up in five minutes, any comments or improvements are welcome:
:
: Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
: Subject: FAQ: Should I post in comp.lang.perl.misc?
:
: Q1: What is on topic for this group?
: A1: comp.*
: this is a forum about computers
: comp.lang.*
: this is a forum about computer languages
: comp.lang.perl.*
: this is a forum about the Perl computer language
: comp.lang.perl.misc
: this is a forum about miscellaneous things relating to
: the Perl computer language
:
: "miscellaneous" here does not mean "any damn thing you want".
Actually, in Usenet ".misc" has a more precise meaning than that; it
means "a forum for things that fall within the scope of the hierarchy
(in this case comp.lang.perl.*) but not within the scope of any more
specifically-named groups within that hierarchy (such as, say,
comp.lang.perl.tk)."
So I'd change that last entry to "this is a forum about things relating
to the Perl computer language that aren't covered by other
comp.lang.perl.* groups."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:59:30 GMT
From: ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <FxCL36.Ipr@news.boeing.com>
In article <x7u2e2oror.fsf@home.sysarch.com>,
Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>
>tom's doesn't describe this group but rather where to get perl info. i
>like ilmari's idea. it needs a little cleaning up and expansion (but not
>too much). and it should be autoposted very often, at least every 2 days
>to catch all the newbies and maybe every day. and it needs a very good
>subject line to attract their eye and get them to read it. that is the
>hardest part.
>
How 'bout: "FREE... HELP YOURSELF"
ducking,
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 22:47:24 GMT
From: ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <FxCnB0.KHq@news.boeing.com>
In article <8k5ht6$qd4$3@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>,
Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> wrote:
>Ilmari Karonen (iltzu@sci.invalid) wrote:
>: Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should certainly
>: include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's name. This is what
>: I came up in five minutes, any comments or improvements are welcome:
>:
>: Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
>: Subject: FAQ: Should I post in comp.lang.perl.misc?
>:
>: Q1: What is on topic for this group?
>: A1: comp.*
>: this is a forum about computers
>: comp.lang.*
>: this is a forum about computer languages
>: ...
>: comp.lang.perl.misc
>: this is a forum about miscellaneous things relating to
>: the Perl computer language
>:
>: "miscellaneous" here does not mean "any damn thing you want".
>
>Actually, in Usenet ".misc" has a more precise meaning than that; it
>means "a forum for things that fall within the scope of the hierarchy
>(in this case comp.lang.perl.*) but not within the scope of any more
>specifically-named groups within that hierarchy (such as, say,
>comp.lang.perl.tk)."
>
>So I'd change that last entry to "this is a forum about things relating
>to the Perl computer language that aren't covered by other
>comp.lang.perl.* groups."
>
Great. And I'd be tempted to add:
And excludes topics - even if written in Perl - that are language
neutral and whose content is more appropriately answered in other
newsgroups. Example: Why does my Perl script behave differently in
browser X?
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 00:32:46 -0500
From: Nnickee <nnickee@nnickee.com>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <E2140ECE36E90769.81B618D9DA41B73D.864313B08672F396@lp.airnews.net>
On 7 Jul 2000 08:45:20 GMT, someone claiming to be Ilmari Karonen
<iltzu@sci.invalid> said:
>In article <3964f3e5@news-uk.onetel.net.uk>, Peter Barrett wrote:
>>As for your latter point about being 100% off topic, I can only say that I
>>see no FAQ stating this newsgroup's topic limits, indeed I point you to the
>>word 'misc' at the end of comp.lang.perl.misc. I consider my posting was
>Hmm, perhaps we do need a regular mini-FAQ post. It should certainly
>include Tad McClellan's explanation of the group's name. This is what
>I came up in five minutes, any comments or improvements are welcome:
I second (or third or fourth or...) the idea...
<snip>
> Q2: What should I do before posting a question here?
> A2: 1. Study netiquette.
maybe a pointer to where they can study netiquette
> 2. Search the Perl FAQ using 'perldoc -q'.
For the sake of the windows users (yes, I am one) who when seeing "try
perldoc -q" for the first time have absolutely no clue what do do, I'd
just like to suggest that we have a bit of compassion and just flat
out tell 'em here how/where to do 'perldoc -q'
I do tech support myself, so I fully understand how wearisome it is
when you feel like you're having to spoonfeed the newbies all day, but
just as you wouldn't expect a newborn baby to be able to pick up a
spoon and feed itself, we shouldn't expect perl newbies to know how to
use the tools they have just installed. It would only add a couple of
lines to the mini-faq, and I honestly think it would help.
<snip>
>Note: I'm not at all sure if a regular FAQ post would be a good idea
>here. Relevent arguments for both sides can be found using step 5 in
>the above list. I just started wondering what should be in such a
>post if there were one.
Possibly even a small section regarding replies? "Please don't post
in jeopardy style. Blah blah blah..."
Nnickee
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 10:35:42 GMT
From: bart.lateur@skynet.be (Bart Lateur)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <3967f7e9.2168603@news.skynet.be>
Tad McClellan wrote:
>If this goes forward, please amend my
>
> "miscellaneous" here does not mean "any damn thing you want"
>
>into
>
> "miscellaneous" here does not mean "anything you want"
>
>:-)
Heh, no. I think that the original phrasing is much more clear. It also
carries an implicit threat: "If you ignore this advice... Get ready for
some flames!"
--
Bart.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 13:40:30 +0200
From: "Brendon Caligari" <bcaligari@shipreg.com>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <8k73dj$gqg$1@news.news-service.com>
> For the sake of the windows users (yes, I am one) who when seeing "try
> perldoc -q" for the first time have absolutely no clue what do do, I'd
> just like to suggest that we have a bit of compassion and just flat
> out tell 'em here how/where to do 'perldoc -q'
all it takes is typing in somethin glike......
perldoc -q sort
where to type it?
at the command prompt, but if the guy who posted the question can't
figure that out, then the problem is another.
(i'm using activestate perl on win2000)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:58:38 GMT
From: rurban@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at (Reini Urban)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <3967416b.11623774@news>
Uri Guttman wrote:
>and it should be autoposted very often, at least every 2 days
>to catch all the newbies and maybe every day.
do you really thing that spamming is the right thing to fight spam?
doubt that.
--
Reini
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 15:06:47 GMT
From: rurban@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at (Reini Urban)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <396741c5.11713653@news>
Ilmari Karonen wrote:
> comp.lang.perl.misc
> this is a forum about miscellaneous things relating to
> the Perl computer language
so we are having again another hair-spliting argument that perl is a
"computer language".
is this now the correct linguistic place between "scripting language"
(which it is) and "programming language" (which it is not)?
I'd rather favor Eric Bohlman's abbrevation, just explain what .misc is
not for.
(the web. browser, server, CGI or OS problems. ...)
--
Reini
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 10:55:54 -0400
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8meg7q.osq.tadmc@magna.metronet.com>
On Sat, 08 Jul 2000 15:06:47 GMT, Reini Urban <rurban@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at> wrote:
>Ilmari Karonen wrote:
>> comp.lang.perl.misc
>> this is a forum about miscellaneous things relating to
>> the Perl computer language
>
>so we are having again another hair-spliting argument that perl is a
>"computer language".
No we are not.
I don't see how anyone can claim that Perl is not a computer language.
>is this now the correct linguistic place between "scripting language"
>(which it is) and "programming language" (which it is not)?
"computer language" includes both of those.
So the (perceived) distinction between "scripting" and
"programming" is a red herring.
>I'd rather favor Eric Bohlman's abbrevation, just explain what .misc is
>not for.
Me too.
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 2000 16:00:51 GMT
From: Ilmari Karonen <iltzu@sci.invalid>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <963071962.18501@itz.pp.sci.fi>
In article <396741c5.11713653@news>, Reini Urban wrote:
>Ilmari Karonen wrote:
>> comp.lang.perl.misc
>> this is a forum about miscellaneous things relating to
>> the Perl computer language
>
>so we are having again another hair-spliting argument that perl is a
>"computer language".
Not really, it just works best in that incremental expansion of the
group name: comp -> computer, comp.lang -> computer language.
--
Ilmari Karonen - http://www.sci.fi/~iltzu/
"The screwdriver *is* the portable method." -- Abigail
Please ignore Godzilla and its pseudonyms - do not feed the troll.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:16:25 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <Pine.GHP.4.21.0007081807320.11485-100000@hpplus03.cern.ch>
On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, Reini Urban wrote:
> I'd rather favor Eric Bohlman's abbrevation, just explain what .misc is
> not for.
Then the group would condemn itself to adding a potentially infinite
list of things that the group is not for, as each new off-topic
theme gets posted. Otherwise the newbies could claim "this isn't
ruled out in the FAQ, therefore it must be on-topic".
Sorry, I think the correct thing is to point to the standard
usenet principle, that comp.lang.perl.misc is for things that
are properly on-topic for comp.lang.perl.* but which don't have
their own group. If only new usenauts would take that principle on
board it would stand them in good stead for usenet as a whole. Trying
to lecture them on some set of Perl-specific usenet rules would be to
fragment that general principle, it seems to me.
> (the web. browser, server, CGI or OS problems. ...)
There's no harm in stressing that non-Perl-language-specific issues
about web browsers, servers, CGIs and OSes are non-exhaustive examples
of things that are off-topic here.
The mere fact that a Perl-relevant question happened to also have
some web or OS content does not ipso facto rule it out here, though.
That would be taking things _too_ far, IMHO.
ttfn
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 2000 13:36:34 -0500
From: hjweth@spreemail.com (HermDog)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8met7t.l3t.hjweth@sogub.topsail.invalid>
On Sat, 08 Jul 2000 14:58:38 GMT, Reini Urban <rurban@sbox.tu-graz.ac.at> wrote:
>Uri Guttman wrote:
>>and it should be autoposted very often, at least every 2 days
>>to catch all the newbies and maybe every day.
>
>do you really thing that spamming is the right thing to fight spam?
>doubt that.
It hast to be just frequent enough so that anyone who lurks
sufficiently before posting will have a chance to see it. Every other
week would probably be generous, I would think.
--
hjweth@spreemail.com
Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free
trip around the Sun.
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------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 2000 13:44:02 -0500
From: hjweth@spreemail.com (HermDog)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8metlu.l3t.hjweth@sogub.topsail.invalid>
On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:16:25 +0200, Alan J. Flavell <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
[Good points trimmed to save precious bits]
>There's no harm in stressing that non-Perl-language-specific issues
>about web browsers, servers, CGIs and OSes are non-exhaustive examples
>of things that are off-topic here.
The Spanish Inquisition FAQ: "*Among* the many subjects that are
off-topic here are Web Browsers, Web Servers, CGI, OSes, ... "
--
hjweth@spreemail.com
Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free
trip around the Sun.
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-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:53:09 GMT
From: kcivey@cpcug.org (Keith Calvert Ivey)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <39697839.21029164@nntp.idsonline.com>
hjweth@spreemail.com (HermDog) wrote:
>It hast to be just frequent enough so that anyone who lurks
>sufficiently before posting will have a chance to see it. Every other
>week would probably be generous, I would think.
Isn't the main audience the people who *don't* lurk before
posting? Of course, it may be impossible to reach them by
any means.
--
Keith C. Ivey <kcivey@cpcug.org>
Washington, DC
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------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 2000 19:16:46 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <8k7umu$3d5$5@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
HermDog (hjweth@spreemail.com) wrote:
: On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:16:25 +0200, Alan J. Flavell <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
:
: [Good points trimmed to save precious bits]
:
: >There's no harm in stressing that non-Perl-language-specific issues
: >about web browsers, servers, CGIs and OSes are non-exhaustive examples
: >of things that are off-topic here.
:
: The Spanish Inquisition FAQ: "*Among* the many subjects that are
: off-topic here are Web Browsers, Web Servers, CGI, OSes, ... "
"Biggles! Fetch the ... soft references!"
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 2000 21:37:40 -0500
From: hjweth@spreemail.com (HermDog)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8mfpav.lvs.hjweth@sogub.topsail.invalid>
On Sat, 08 Jul 2000 18:53:09 GMT, Keith Calvert Ivey <kcivey@cpcug.org> wrote:
>hjweth@spreemail.com (HermDog) wrote:
>
>>It hast to be just frequent enough so that anyone who lurks
>>sufficiently before posting will have a chance to see it. Every other
>>week would probably be generous, I would think.
>
>Isn't the main audience the people who *don't* lurk before
>posting? Of course, it may be impossible to reach them by
>any means.
I don't have much sympathy for people who refuse to lurk and
learn. LART 'em twice: once for not lurking, and once for not reading
the FAQ. I'm usually much nicer, but I've been reading Abigail's
posts.
--
hjweth@spreemail.com
Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free
trip around the Sun.
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-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 2000 21:40:24 -0500
From: hjweth@spreemail.com (HermDog)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <slrn8mfpg4.lvs.hjweth@sogub.topsail.invalid>
On 8 Jul 2000 19:16:46 GMT, Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> wrote:
>HermDog (hjweth@spreemail.com) wrote:
>: On Sat, 8 Jul 2000 18:16:25 +0200, Alan J. Flavell <flavell@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
>:
>: [Good points trimmed to save precious bits]
>:
>: >There's no harm in stressing that non-Perl-language-specific issues
>: >about web browsers, servers, CGIs and OSes are non-exhaustive examples
>: >of things that are off-topic here.
>:
>: The Spanish Inquisition FAQ: "*Among* the many subjects that are
>: off-topic here are Web Browsers, Web Servers, CGI, OSes, ... "
>
>"Biggles! Fetch the ... soft references!"
>
"No! Not the soft references!"
--
hjweth@spreemail.com
Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes an annual free
trip around the Sun.
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
------------------------------
Date: 09 Jul 2000 16:58:27 GMT
From: bbirthisel@aol.com (Bbirthisel)
Subject: Re: Mini-Faq (was: Help someone new)
Message-Id: <20000709125827.24052.00000470@ng-fq1.aol.com>
>i suggest
>
> "README: How to not get flamed"
Or even : "ANSWERS: How to impress your boss"
>but i think it should be a part of rootbeer's post so that it cuts
>down on the number of posts the newbies ignore ;)
Agreed.
-bill
Making computers work in Manufacturing for over 25 years (inquiries welcome)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 3579
**************************************
