[16030] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3442 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jun 21 14:05:44 2000
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:05:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <961610727-v9-i3442@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 21 Jun 2000 Volume: 9 Number: 3442
Today's topics:
Re: A Computer Programmers Profile (Jerome O'Neil)
Re: A Computer Programmers Profile <russ_jones@rac.ray.com>
Re: A Computer Programmers Profile <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: A Computer Programmers Profile (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Re: Activeware Perl and Windows 2000 <murat.uenalan@sietec.de>
Re: Average Salary? (Nobody)
bash script does not exec through cgi wmcn@my-deja.com
Re: bash script does not exec through cgi <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: Browser differences <lauren_smith13@hotmail.com>
Can you call a shell script from Perl? fperkins@my-deja.com
Re: Can you call a shell script from Perl? <mike.solomon@eps.ltd.uk>
Re: Can you call a shell script from Perl? <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: CGI.pm <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: CGI.pm <Gizzzmo@pandora.be>
Re: Converting GUID into hexadecimal format <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Re: Crazy enough that it might just work... <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org>
Re: creating a file that doesn't exist <ssearle at maplesoft>
Re: debugging an already running program <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: Environment variables <abe@ztreet.demon.nl>
Re: Environment variables <mjcarman@home.com>
Re: Environment variables <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Re: Glob problem wmcn@my-deja.com
Re: Help with saving hasreffs in a dbm file (Eric Bohlman)
Re: I need to get better at Perl <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: I need to get better at Perl <j@iforgot.net>
Re: I need to get better at Perl <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Re: I need to get better at Perl robb4444@my-deja.com
Re: I need to get better at Perl <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: I need to get better at Perl <mhc@Eng.Sun.COM>
Re: I need to get better at Perl <care227@attglobal.net>
Re: Need app to generate perl for windows (FactoryJS)
Re: NOT a Newbie Form - Perl - mail?! (FactoryJS)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:00:09 GMT
From: jerome@activeindexing.com (Jerome O'Neil)
Subject: Re: A Computer Programmers Profile
Message-Id: <dE545.248$ZR1.2961@news.uswest.net>
bart.lateur@skynet.be (Bart Lateur) elucidates:
> Jerome O'Neil wrote:
>
>>Killing your children is oft accomplished in Perl.
>
> No.... perl is very bad in killing it's own children.
Well, it certainly is *messy*.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:34:00 -0500
From: Russ Jones <russ_jones@rac.ray.com>
Subject: Re: A Computer Programmers Profile
Message-Id: <3950FC88.4BC093AB@rac.ray.com>
Jerome O'Neil wrote:
>
> "mike solomon" <mike.solomon@eps.ltd.uk> elucidates:
> > if its not a stupid question
> >
> > what has this to do with perl
>
> Killing your children is oft accomplished in Perl.
How about killing my neighbor's children?
--
Russ Jones - HP OpenView IT/Operatons support
Raytheon Aircraft Company, Wichita KS
russ_jones@rac.ray.com 316-676-0747
Quae narravi, nullo modo negabo. - Catullus
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:45:53 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: A Computer Programmers Profile
Message-Id: <3950FF51.EDF28ADF@attglobal.net>
Russ Jones wrote:
>
> > Killing your children is oft accomplished in Perl.
>
> How about killing my neighbor's children?
>
I prefer heavy blunt objects for such things.
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 2000 14:00:56 +0200
From: skirsch@moebius.inka.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: A Computer Programmers Profile
Message-Id: <8iqapo$2bt$1@moebius.priv>
Jerome O'Neil schreibt:
> Killing your children is oft accomplished in Perl.
You kill() your children only in the most dire circumstances. Normally,
you just wait() for them to die.
--
Yours, Sebastian Kirsch <skirsch@moebius.inka.de>
On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. Or a cat. Meow!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:47:33 +0200
From: Murat Uenalan <murat.uenalan@sietec.de>
Subject: Re: Activeware Perl and Windows 2000
Message-Id: <3950F1A5.1D133678@sietec.de>
Be sure that you have a correct file-association for perl ! Seems like you have
it on your w95, but not on w2k !!
Follow this w2k shell procedure:
C:\users\murat.uenalan\perltools\remote>assoc .pl
.pl=perlfile
C:\users\murat.uenalan\perltools\remote>ftype perlfile
perlfile=c:\programme\perl\bin\perl "%1" %*
Cheers,
Murat
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 2000 16:39:35 GMT
From: nobody@contract.Sun.COM (Nobody)
Subject: Re: Average Salary?
Message-Id: <8iqr47$jbo$1@eastnews1.east.sun.com>
In article <2BY35.22522$FC6.508251@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
Dave Godwin <no@spam.net> wrote:
>
>Here in silicon valley you can't hire a good dead cat for under 90K.
>
>
Same goes for here in the Boston area...especially if you are
a web developer with back-end programming experience. Throw
in database experience and the recruiters will flood you with
job offers. Personally, I'm sticking with contract work, which
pays even better :-)
Anita
(currently working 3 consulting jobs...)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:12:02 GMT
From: wmcn@my-deja.com
Subject: bash script does not exec through cgi
Message-Id: <8iqlvh$984$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
hi,
I've got a script that works from command line
but not through the form (full execute/read permissions)
The app the script should be launching is in the /sbin/
of a debian system. Is there something I'm missing.
Later,
Bill
wmcn@ireland.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:52:32 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: bash script does not exec through cgi
Message-Id: <3950E4C0.785F07E9@attglobal.net>
wmcn@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> I've got a script that works from command line
> but not through the form (full execute/read permissions)
> The app the script should be launching is in the /sbin/
> of a debian system. Is there something I'm missing.
>
Specifically example code and the text of the error message.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:08:37 -0700
From: "Lauren Smith" <lauren_smith13@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Browser differences
Message-Id: <8iqspu$63j$1@brokaw.wa.com>
Phil <barrowman_99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8iqot4$e7$1@bignews.shef.ac.uk...
> Can anyone tell me why a simple script that outputs html can work OK with
> IExplorer but with Netscape the text appears underlined? No matter what
> <Font> tags I try.
> Thanks
>
> p.s. viewing the HTML source of the output page does not indicate any
reason
> why it should be underlined
This is a browser question, not a Perl question. You may want to ask in a
group that talks about browsers. Followups set.
Lauren
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:13:18 GMT
From: fperkins@my-deja.com
Subject: Can you call a shell script from Perl?
Message-Id: <8iqm1s$98o$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Why won't this execute test.sh via the browser?
$test = `test.sh`;
Is it that "nobody" does not permissions to run shell scripts? Or
should I be calling it a different way?
TIA,
Frank
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:26:12 +0100
From: "mike solomon" <mike.solomon@eps.ltd.uk>
Subject: Re: Can you call a shell script from Perl?
Message-Id: <8iqms4$580jf$1@fu-berlin.de>
does test.sh have the correct permissions so it can be executed
also try putting the full path in and see if that helps
$test = `/usr/local/bin/test.sh`;
Regards
Mike Solomon
<fperkins@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8iqm1s$98o$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Why won't this execute test.sh via the browser?
>
> $test = `test.sh`;
>
> Is it that "nobody" does not permissions to run shell scripts? Or
> should I be calling it a different way?
>
> TIA,
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:40:07 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Can you call a shell script from Perl?
Message-Id: <3950E1D7.6F7DC967@attglobal.net>
fperkins@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Why won't this execute test.sh via the browser?
>
> $test = `test.sh`;
>
> Is it that "nobody" does not permissions to run shell scripts? Or
> should I be calling it a different way?
>
Your webserver is running under the "nobody" username. This
UID does not have rights to execute this file.
Check out the man pages for chmod and chown.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:10:05 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: CGI.pm
Message-Id: <3950DACD.548D386D@attglobal.net>
Tony Curtis wrote:
>
> You're still trying to interpolate a method call.
>
You are, of course, correct. My appologies for posting garbage.
I'm going to go read perlobj now.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:17:42 GMT
From: "Christophe Gijbels" <Gizzzmo@pandora.be>
Subject: Re: CGI.pm
Message-Id: <WM645.10397$Ve.10525@afrodite.telenet-ops.be>
Thanks that was exactly what I needed to know and what I could not find.
It may look ugly but it's the only way :))
Why I use CGI.pm and Heredocs is quite easy to explain, I do the scripting
part and somebody else makes the html pages, and I'm not going to waste my
time by replacing every piece of html, that includes layers etc... in a
functioncall of CGI.pm that would be useless and a waste of a lot of time
:))
Christophe
"Jonathan Stowe" <gellyfish@gellyfish.com> schreef in bericht
news:3G445.515$My4.49505@news.dircon.co.uk...
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:08:13 GMT, Gizzzmo Wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > I'm using the CGI.pm module to interact with my forms, but I've a small
> > question concerning the print function.
> > When I would like to use a 'Here'document for sending a preformatted
html
> > document where a want to put some variables in, it works , ex:
> > print <<end;
> > <html><body>
> > This is a variable: $variable
> > </body></html>
> > end
> >
> > So this works perfect when the $variable is declared and assigned a
value
> > before the print.
> > But when I would like to do the same thing using the CGI.pm module it
won't.
> > ex:
> > $p = new CGI;
> > print <<end;
> > <html><body>
> > This is a variable: $p->param('fieldname')
> > </body></html>
> > end
> >
> > I get something like HASH(2axfd) or something like that
> > so now I am supposed to do something like this:
> >
> > $p = new CGI;
> > print <<end;
> > <html><body>
> > This is a variable:
> > end
> > $value = $p->param('fieldname');
> > print $value;
> > print <<end;
> > </body></html>
> > end
> >
>
> Yes thats right expressions are not interpolated in double quoted strings
> only $variables. You will want to read the item in perlfaq4 :
>
> How do I expand function calls in a string?
>
> Whic basically comes down to something like :
>
>
>
> print <<END;
> <html><body>
> This is a variable: @{[$p->param('fieldname')]}
> </body></html>
> END
>
> And sundry other ugly things ;-}
>
> /J\
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:41:46 -0700
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Subject: Re: Converting GUID into hexadecimal format
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10006210836510.4312-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Kenny Lim wrote:
> (Q) Do you know how to store the id generated into an array and be
> printed out instead of storing into a physical file. So far, when I
> attempt to store the id into an array, I get the following result -
> ARRAY(0x8b92214) instead of the hexa-decimal id, when I open the
> ARRAY(0x8b92214) file, I am able to see the hexadecimal id generated
> in the file but not print.
It sounds as if you're stringifying an array reference. That doesn't make
a file, though! See the perlref and perldsc manpages.
> Regular guid format :
>
> {DA86E130-470E-11D4-9F14-0080ADC93510}
>
> Hexa-decimal format:
>
> 0xDA86E130, 0x470E, 0x11D4, 0x9F, 0x14, 0x00, 0x80, 0xAD, 0xC9, 0x35, 0x10
It's not obvious how you know which size chunk to use for each part. Is it
always the chunk size except for the last group? Except for the fifth
group? Except for groups that swart with 00? Except for long groups?
The code you posted seems to work for you, right? If so, do you have any
reason to change it?
Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:26:26 GMT
From: Dan Sugalski <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org>
Subject: Re: Crazy enough that it might just work...
Message-Id: <C8545.6324$Zg4.23276@news1.rdc1.ct.home.com>
Peter Sundstrom <peter.sundstrom@eds.com> wrote:
> If you extend this logic a little futher, you could claim MS Word, PDF, XML,
> troff etc are programming languages.
Actually...
PDF is a subset of PostScript. It *is* a programming language, albeit more
special purpose than many others. I don't think the raytracers written in
PostScript will translate to something Acrobat will read, but I wouldn't
be too surprised if they did. Troff may count as a programming language
too, I think, though I'm not 100% sure. (Got to be carefult these days.
Sendmail's turing-complete, and someone *has* built a turing engine in
their sendmail.cf file...)
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:51:40 -0400
From: "Scott Searle" <ssearle at maplesoft>
Subject: Re: creating a file that doesn't exist
Message-Id: <3950f2b6@vega>
Hey
open(FILE, ">nonexistant file") unless -e nonexistant.file
Of course you probably want to do something with the file if it doesn't
exist, so a one-liner might not be what you're after :-)
-S
"jonas benjamin downey" <jbdowney@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.10006201550340.9492-100000@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu...
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to create a file that doesn't already exist
> from a script on an apache web server. I've tried the method in the perl
> faq, which is (roughly):
>
> $FILE = '(path of nonexistent file)';
> use Fcntl;
> sysopen(FH, $FILE, O_WRONLY|O_EXCL|O_CREAT, 0755) or die "can't open
> $FILE: $!":
>
> But every time I run the script I get a compilation error. Is there an
> alternative way to do this?
>
> Thanks,
> jonas
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:41:19 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: debugging an already running program
Message-Id: <Pine.GHP.4.21.0006211734130.6396-100000@hpplus03.cern.ch>
On 21 Jun 2000, Eric Bohlman wrote:
[...]
> : > Up to 100 minutes free!
[...]
> : If one of my posts turns up with this on the bottom then I'll know there
> : is something going on.
>
> It's coming from Remarq.
If enough people complain to their abuse address about their breach of
netiquette (i.e advertising in the body of a posting), then I suppose
they might reconsider. I only got their automatic brush-off reply, so
now I'm downscoring their postings. Usenet is getting to be less and
less useful now that commerce has discovered it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:48:54 +0200
From: Abe Timmerman <abe@ztreet.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Environment variables
Message-Id: <jmo1lssesnkur83acufd6cvh63nodomr97@4ax.com>
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:23:46 +0400, "Andrew Matveev"
<Andrew@constbank.spb.ru> wrote:
> I try to convert my shell-script on Solaris 2.6 into Perl (5.005).
> I read my .profile and set Env variables like this:
> @array= <FILE>;
> foreach (@array)
> {
> ($name, $value) = split(/=/,$_);
> $ENV{"$name"} = "$value";
> }
>
> After that I call some sql and sh scripts that rise errors
> because some env variables look like this (without substitution)
> $USR_PATH/tmp ( should be /USR1/tmp)
> $HOME/tmp (should be /u/home/tmp) and so on.
>
> How can I get right effect?
By doing the substitution?
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
while ( <DATA> ) {
chomp;
my($name, $value) = split /=/, $_, 2;
$value =~ s/(?<!\\)\$([\w]+)/$ENV{$1}/g;
$ENV{$name} = $value;
}
print map "$_=$ENV{$_}\n"=>sort keys %ENV;
__DATA__
CLPM_HOME=$HOME/clpmisc
TEST_VAR=$PS1;this = \$TEST_VAR;$CLPM_HOME
--
Good luck,
Abe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:46:02 -0500
From: Michael Carman <mjcarman@home.com>
Subject: Re: Environment variables
Message-Id: <3950D52A.964B574E@home.com>
Andrew Matveev wrote:
>
> I try to convert my shell-script on Solaris 2.6 into Perl (5.005).
> I read my .profile and set Env variables like this:
> @array= <FILE>;
> foreach (@array)
> {
> ($name, $value) = split(/=/,$_);
> $ENV{"$name"} = "$value";
> }
A couple minor nits:
1) Reading the file line-by-line instead of slurping it will use
less memory.
2) Double quoting your variable performs useless stringification.
while (<FILE>) {
my ($name, $value) = split (/=/, $_);
$ENV{$name} = $value;
}
A couple of larger nits:
3) Is FILE opened from your .profile? If so you're probably setting
some bizzare enviromental variables as I would expect your profile
to have more than just variable assignments in it. (Setting
aliases, paths, etc.)
4) You're enviromental variables should already be present, inherited
from the shell that invoked perl.
> After that I call some sql and sh scripts that rise errors
> because some env variables look like this (without substitution)
> $USR_PATH/tmp ( should be /USR1/tmp)
> $HOME/tmp (should be /u/home/tmp) and so on.
Most likely your profile has interdependancies in its variable
assigments. e.g.
setenv FOO /foo
setenv BAR $FOO/bar
The second FOO won't get interpreted as '/foo' when you read it into
your script as text -- you'll need to parse it out and replace it with
$ENV{FOO}.
But, as I said in point (4) above, I suspect that it isn't necessary,
because you should be able to inherit your enviroment and do away with
parsing your .profile completely.
-mjc
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:10:28 -0700
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Subject: Re: Environment variables
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10006210905400.4312-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Wed, 21 Jun 2000, Andrew Matveev wrote:
> I read my .profile and set Env variables like this:
> @array= <FILE>;
> foreach (@array)
> {
> ($name, $value) = split(/=/,$_);
> $ENV{"$name"} = "$value";
> }
Those double-quote marks are merely distracting.
> After that I call some sql and sh scripts that rise errors
> because some env variables look like this (without substitution)
> $USR_PATH/tmp ( should be /USR1/tmp)
> $HOME/tmp (should be /u/home/tmp) and so on.
>
> How can I get right effect?
One way would be to redo your code to emulate the shell (which, in the
end, would mean re-writing the shell in Perl).
A better way would be to let the shell set the variables, then run your
program. Or you can run a subshell which sets the variables, have it tell
you what they are, then you can parse the output and set the variables as
needed.
my @shell_vars = `. .profile; set`; # or whatever
Of course, any way of doing this correctly will run the .profile, which
may be less than desirable. Oh, well!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:40:05 GMT
From: wmcn@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Glob problem
Message-Id: <8iqnki$an0$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <8iqbrn$18m$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Ave Wrigley <Ave.Wrigley@itn.co.uk> wrote:
> I am having a problem with glob and single quotes in directory names.
> Here is what I have done:
>
> > ls -l "foo'bar"
> total 0
> -rw------- 1 online other 0 Jun 21 12:55 foo
> > cat
> $dir = "\"foo'bar\"";
> print "$dir\n";
> print `ls $dir`, "\n";
> print glob( "$dir/*" ), "\n";
> > perl !$
> perl glob.pl
> "foo'bar"
> foo
>
> Unmatched "
>
> I am not sure why the shell seems to be able to copy with the way I
> have handled the single quote in the directory name (by wrapping it in
> double quotes) in the shell itself, and in backticks, but not in glob.
> Anyone have any ideas?
The " enclosure is open to shell interpretation of everything except
spaces and tabs...
The ' stops the shell doing any interpretation UNTIL the closing '
So, it you want to insert a ' in a ' enclosure you must whack the
escape as follows... \'
> $dir = "\"foo'bar\"";
try
$dir = 'foo\'bar";
>
> Unmatched "
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 2000 15:17:08 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: Help with saving hasreffs in a dbm file
Message-Id: <8iqm9k$8o7$4@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>
nmm367@mail.usask.ca wrote:
: I have a hash 'hash' which keys are strings and values and references
: to another hash - 'hashref'. I have no problem manipulating either of
: the hashes when they are in memory but when I try to save 'hash' in a
: dbmfile the content of 'hashref' is lost. I understand why is that. I
: know that there should be a way to do that but can't figure it out how.
: Any bootstraps will be appreciated.
Take a look at the MLDBM module, along with Data::Dumper, Storable, and
FreezeThaw (since you'll be using one of those three for serialization if
you use MLDBM).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:07:16 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <3950DA24.32DA3966@attglobal.net>
Mike Coffin wrote:
>
>
> I answer a few when I have time. E.g., the post you responded to. If
> everyone answered a few questions a month in a helpful fashion instead
> of answering hundreds unhelpfully, don't you agree that this would be
> a more useful newsgroup?
>
The problem is that people insist on posting off topic. So one of
two things happens. They get ignored and post again, only to be
ignored further, or someone recomends a better group for them to post
too. I know alot of folks would prefer that all just ignore the OTP,
but I think its far more helpfull to point them in the right direction.
Same goes with FAQ's. Alot of those would be ignored, scored out,
whatever. It may appear to be un-helpfull to point the OP to the
answer, instead of answering directly, but it really isn't. When I
worked for IBM, part of my job was responding to customers in NGs.
I would have gone mad if I didn't have FAQ's to point the posters too.
The same holds true universally.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:18:24 -0600
From: "Jim" <j@iforgot.net>
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <3950eadb$0$21510@news.denver1.Level3.net>
"Mike Coffin" <mhc@Eng.Sun.COM> wrote in message
news:8p63dm7t846.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM...
> I answer a few when I have time. E.g., the post you responded to. If
> everyone answered a few questions a month in a helpful fashion instead
> of answering hundreds unhelpfully, don't you agree that this would be
> a more useful newsgroup?
Both PERL and Linux seem to be fairly eliteist. It's most obvious in IRC
channels...
I used the phrase "seem to be" carefully, though. I've seen a lot of posts
that I can sympathize with the problem, but the poster has provided so
little information that it's impossible to give a good answer.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:23:45 GMT
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <l_545.525$My4.49626@news.dircon.co.uk>
On 21 Jun 2000 07:35:21 -0700, Mike Coffin Wrote:
> Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com> writes:
>
>> On 20 Jun 2000 10:08:04 -0700, Mike Coffin Wrote:
>> >
>> > Avoid this newsgroup; it's a
>> > very poor place to get help. Very few people here will take the time
>> > to help you, unless you consider admonitions to RTFM helpful.
>> >
>>
>> I'm sure you will be following your own advice then. I dont see many of
>> your posts here trying to remedy this.
>
> I answer a few when I have time. E.g., the post you responded to. If
> everyone answered a few questions a month in a helpful fashion instead
> of answering hundreds unhelpfully, don't you agree that this would be
> a more useful newsgroup?
>
Depends how you define unhelpfully. It would be a lot less helpful if all of
the questions that are answered in the documentation and the FAQ were
answered with the full text of what it says in those documents and would be
a lot less helpful if they went unanswered too as people would simply keep
asking the same questions.
You seem to think that we should answer any question with a full discussion
however clearly it is answered elsewhere.
/J\
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:19:50 GMT
From: robb4444@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <8iqtf2$fil$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
> The problem is that people insist on posting off topic.
This is a miscellanous forum.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:30:27 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <3950FBB3.E65F9A8F@attglobal.net>
Jim wrote:
>
> Both PERL and Linux seem to be fairly eliteist. It's most obvious in IRC
> channels...
What's the difference between "perl" and "Perl"?
One bit. Oh, you weren't talking ASCII? :-) Larry now uses ``Perl''
to signify the language proper and ``perl'' the implementation of
it, i.e. the current interpreter. Hence Tom's quip that ``Nothing but
perl can parse Perl.'' You may or may not choose to follow this usage.
For example, parallelism means ``awk and perl'' and ``Python and Perl''
look ok, while ``awk and Perl'' and ``Python and perl'' do not.
(I just couldn't resist. =)
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 2000 10:05:34 -0700
From: Mike Coffin <mhc@Eng.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <8p61z1rdkwx.fsf@Eng.Sun.COM>
Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net> writes:
> Mike Coffin wrote:
> >
> >
> > I answer a few when I have time. E.g., the post you responded to. If
> > everyone answered a few questions a month in a helpful fashion instead
> > of answering hundreds unhelpfully, don't you agree that this would be
> > a more useful newsgroup?
> >
>
> The problem is that people insist on posting off topic. So one of
> two things happens. They get ignored and post again, only to be
> ignored further, or someone recomends a better group for them to post
> too. I know alot of folks would prefer that all just ignore the OTP,
> but I think its far more helpfull to point them in the right direction.
>
> Same goes with FAQ's. Alot of those would be ignored, scored out,
> whatever. It may appear to be un-helpfull to point the OP to the
> answer, instead of answering directly, but it really isn't. When I
> worked for IBM, part of my job was responding to customers in NGs.
> I would have gone mad if I didn't have FAQ's to point the posters too.
> The same holds true universally.
You reinforce my original point: this newsgroup isn't a good place
for Perl beginners to get help. Excepting a very few people, they
will get only one answer: RTFM. This is usually good advice, but you
don't need an entire newsgroup to learn that. Like I said, they're
better off buying a few good books and ignoring the newsgroup.
-mike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:54:14 -0400
From: Drew Simonis <care227@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: I need to get better at Perl
Message-Id: <39510146.2D5189F6@attglobal.net>
robb4444@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > The problem is that people insist on posting off topic.
>
> This is a miscellanous forum.
>
Your point being? Miscellaneous means "Concerned with diverse
subjects or aspects."
That doesn't make this NG a catchall. If there is a group
dedicated to the topic of your question, modules, for example,
it is good form to post in the modules group. CGI questions
have a home too. Perl/TK? Thats covered elsewhere. My point
here is that there is on topic/off topic, even for c.l.p.misc
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:07:20 GMT
From: factoryjs@aol.com (FactoryJS)
Subject: Re: Need app to generate perl for windows
Message-Id: <20000621130720.22348.00002640@ng-cv1.aol.com>
You might do well to check out Perl/tk. I have used the Activestate port of
Perl on win95 with tk and it was about like VB. Okay myabe like VB3 was when
you had to do more of it your self. The O'Reilly books on Perl/Tk give you
plenty of info if you already understand Windows app development. Good Luck.
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:10:47 GMT
From: factoryjs@aol.com (FactoryJS)
Subject: Re: NOT a Newbie Form - Perl - mail?!
Message-Id: <20000621131047.22348.00002641@ng-cv1.aol.com>
Check CPAN for the Mail::Mailer module. It can smooth out some issues for you.
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 3442
**************************************
