[15883] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3296 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jun 8 21:05:38 2000
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 18:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <960512716-v9-i3296@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 8 Jun 2000 Volume: 9 Number: 3296
Today's topics:
Re: [LWP] Simple telnet requests on port 80 <makau@multimania.com>
Re: [LWP] Simple telnet requests on port 80 (Simon Cozens)
Re: Capturing frames (Eric Bohlman)
Re: Check as you go <abe@ztreet.demon.nl>
Config.pm <nospam@nospam.com>
Re: Config.pm <james@208.23.123.242>
Re: Config.pm <Jonathan.L.Ericson@jpl.nasa.gov>
Re: Content-type header to Set Cookie <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: Content-type header to Set Cookie (Eric Bohlman)
Re: Date comparison ? <red_orc@my-deja.com>
Re: Difficult regex: Update algorithm <phill@modulus.com.au>
Re: Encrypting / decrypting. (Randal L. Schwartz)
Re: Encrypting / decrypting. <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: file access <billy@arnis-bsl.com>
Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings? <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings? (Simon Cozens)
Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings? (Abigail)
Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings? <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: HTTPS with LWP <johnNOjoSPAM@appmagic.com.invalid>
Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com! (Simon Cozens)
Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com! <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com! (Simon Cozens)
Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com! <htp@mac.com>
Looking for basic JPEG manipulation... sept00@my-deja.com
Re: Looking for basic JPEG manipulation... <zigouras@mail.med.upenn.edu>
Re: Looking for basic JPEG manipulation... <elaine@chaos.wustl.edu>
MIME::Lite Attach Method and Strict Pragma <grichards@flashcom.net>
Re: MIME::Lite Attach Method and Strict Pragma (Simon Cozens)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 00:18:02 GMT
From: Makau Divangamene <makau@multimania.com>
Subject: Re: [LWP] Simple telnet requests on port 80
Message-Id: <8hpd3e$rjc$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
> If you're doing all the talking HTTP yourself anyway, simply open a
> IO::Socket::INET connection, spit your HTTP request at it and read
> what comes back.
Simon,
Thank you for your help.
I wouldn't like to sound like a whiner but IO::Socket::INET's PerlDoc
page is definitely one of the worst I have ever read (if not the
worst). It says how to initialise a connection but *NOT* how to send
data. Pretty useless indeed.
Creator of this manpage, if you can read me, please provide more
relevant information about your modules !!
I know I must do :
-------
$sock = IO::Socket::INET->new(
PeerAddr => 'www.domain.com',
PeerPort => 'http(80)',
Proto => 'tcp'
);
-------
But how do I "spit my HTTP request and read what comes back" ?
Thanks to anyone who can help. I'm sure you do know how frustrating it
can be to read so incomplete help pages ...
A nice day to all,
--
Makau
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jun 2000 00:32:46 GMT
From: simon@brecon.co.uk (Simon Cozens)
Subject: Re: [LWP] Simple telnet requests on port 80
Message-Id: <slrn8k0epe.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org>
Makau Divangamene (comp.lang.perl.misc):
>I wouldn't like to sound like a whiner but IO::Socket::INET's PerlDoc
>page is definitely one of the worst I have ever read (if not the
>worst). It says how to initialise a connection but *NOT* how to send
>data. Pretty useless indeed.
That's very true. Sorry to point you at another page instead of
answering directly, but I hope you understand it's for your own good.
So, perldoc perlipc.
In fact, I guess that does answer directly, because in that page there's
"A Webget Client". Which is what you want.
--
Testing can show the presense of bugs, but not their absence.
-- Dijkstra
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 2000 23:58:34 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: Capturing frames
Message-Id: <8hpbva$n6j$3@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
newbie@db-networks.com wrote:
: I am capturing webpages with:
:
: use LWP::UserAgent;
: $ua = new LWP::UserAgent;
: $ua->timeout(45);
: $request = new HTTP::Request('GET','http://www.website.com');
: $response = $ua->request($request);
: print INFO $response->{_content};
:
: This work for non-framed web pages. But I cannot capture frames. Is
: there a way of doing it?
For a framed page, that will give you the content of the frameset
document. You'll have to parse that, using something like
HTML::TokeParser, to get the URLs to the individual content pages and
then retrieve each of them.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 01:56:55 +0200
From: Abe Timmerman <abe@ztreet.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: Check as you go
Message-Id: <bkb0ksspvffmmo40vsv6qqeoa9kn52hpjh@4ax.com>
On Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:36:49 +0200, Alexander Knack <ak@dasburo.de>
wrote:
>
> > while (<FILE>)
> >
> > {
> > ($department,$firstname,$lastname,
> > $daily,$weekly,$monthly) = split (',');
> die "blah" if (grep {!$_ || $_ =~ /\"/}
> ($department,$firstname,$lastname));
> > }
I admit, I like the grep idea, but your condition fails (it die()s) if
one of those values is 0 (zero) or '0' (which was not excluded). And you
get a warning (from '-w') if the original field is 'empty' (blank).
die "blah" if grep /^$|"/ => map { $_ || '' }
($department, $firstname, $lastname);
--
Good luck,
Abe
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 2000 22:21:37 GMT
From: The WebDragon <nospam@nospam.com>
Subject: Config.pm
Message-Id: <8hp69h$q59$0@216.155.33.31>
if I'm reading this correctly,
#!perl -w
print Config::myconfig();
prints out osvers=7.5 despite the fact that I am running on MacOS 8.6
-=- is this because the config only reports the OS it was built on, not
the os it's RUNNING on ?
--
send mail to mactech (at) webdragon (dot) net instead of the above address.
this is to prevent spamming. e-mail reply-to's have been altered
to prevent scan software from extracting my address for the purpose
of spamming me, which I hate with a passion bordering on obsession.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 20:26:43 -0700
From: James Tolley <james@208.23.123.242>
Subject: Re: Config.pm
Message-Id: <394063F3.F507E361@208.23.123.242>
The WebDragon wrote:
>
> #!perl -w
> print Config::myconfig();
>
> prints out osvers=7.5 despite the fact that I am running on MacOS 8.6
myconfig() doesn't ever look to find anything out about the current
environment.
It just looks at hard-coded strings $summary and $config_sh, both found
in Config.pm
hth,
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 17:29:51 -0700
From: Jon Ericson <Jonathan.L.Ericson@jpl.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Config.pm
Message-Id: <39403A7F.B89B3938@jpl.nasa.gov>
The WebDragon wrote:
> #!perl -w
> print Config::myconfig();
>
> prints out osvers=7.5 despite the fact that I am running on MacOS 8.6
> -=- is this because the config only reports the OS it was built on, not
> the os it's RUNNING on ?
On my machine I get:
Undefined subroutine &Config::myconfig called at - line 2.
No doubt the script you actually ran contained:
use Config;
'perldoc Config' informs me:
DESCRIPTION
The Config module contains all the information that was
available to the Configure program at Perl build time (over
900 values).
Jon
--
Knowledge is that which remains when what is
learned is forgotten. - Mr. King
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:31:30 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: Content-type header to Set Cookie
Message-Id: <Pine.GHP.4.21.0006090026090.24487-100000@hpplus03.cern.ch>
On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Norbert Wienholz wrote:
> THAT WAS NOT THE QUESTION!!!
Translation "the group gave me the benefits of its advice, and I
emphatically refused to learn anything from it".
> If I wanted to know your opinion on what your preferred method
> of learning a programming language is, I would have said so!
Look chum, none of us get to set the agenda of a usenet group, not you
not me and not any of the other individual posters. We each make our
contribution as we see fit, and gain such enlightenment as we can from
the responses.
If you want consultancy that exactly conforms to your mandate, then
go out and buy it.
> And if I clearly state that I don't want to use CGI.pm, then
> please don't give me a sales pitch for CGI.pm!
Oh, yeah, another upside-down quoter. It all fits.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 2000 23:46:38 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: Content-type header to Set Cookie
Message-Id: <8hpb8u$n6j$2@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
Norbert Wienholz (norbert@NOSPAMcontrex-us.com) wrote:
: But the side effect of not relying on Black Boxes for my
: programming is that I now know more about Perl & CGI than
: if I'd have just read the documentation of some modules
: and used them without understanding what they do.
Perl modules are not Black Boxes. They are Open Source. They are pieces
of code that you can *read*. Once you understand a module's interface you
may, if you so desire, gain understanding of that module's implementation
as well. You may be used to the idea of locked-up commercial libraries
offered for other languages. Your POV is quite valid when talking about
such things. But Perl modules are Not Like That. They are pieces of
debugged, tested and peer-reviewed code. When you read the source to a
module as widely used as CGI.pm, you will learn a lot of good habits. You
will *not* learn bad habits that you will later have to unlearn, whereas
if you try to learn purely by trial and error, you most likely *will*
learn things that you will later have to unlearn.
Use the Source, Luke.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:24:02 GMT
From: Rodney Engdahl <red_orc@my-deja.com>
Subject: Re: Date comparison ?
Message-Id: <8hp6dg$ms2$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <gg40ks82kqdk1jaifkagpf7ikor63m0ala@4ax.com>,
euterpe21@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm looking for a formula (or a ready-made script) to continuously
> calculate the time left in days, hours and minutes between a past
> given date and the present date.
> TIA for any help.
>
you may want to look at localtime and timelocal.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:59:20 +1000
From: Peter Hill <phill@modulus.com.au>
Subject: Re: Difficult regex: Update algorithm
Message-Id: <39404168.2E95@modulus.com.au>
Burton Kent wrote:
>
> The simple version:
> I'm creating automatically generated text. Users can insert comments in the
> text, and I would like to keep these comments across versions of the
> automatically generated text, by comparing the original version to updates.
>
> Details:
> I'm using an SGML DTD and a user guide to create a series of linked help files.
> The users also add their own comments (tips and tricks, when to use, etc.). When
> either the user guide or the DTD are updated, I'd like to update the help files
> without losing any user commentary. For the most part, the boundary between
> automatically generated text and the user additions are known, but not always.
>
> Any idea for the logic? The unix utility, 'diff' would do it, except it makes
> assumptions about line numbers, which will almost certainly change between
> versions.
>
> This is perl. Therefore, there should be an elegant way to do this.
I'm afraid you're going to find this response unhelpful :-(
A better subject line might be "DIFFicult problem", as comparing two
files has long been recognised as a difficult problem; regexen will, no
doubt, help, where there is a difference within a line. Where there is a
mass insertion or deletion of lines, however, you have to deal with how
long you will attempt to resynchronise the two different files, an Perl
won't help you their.
Since this is a well known problem, you might be better off looking at
the sources/algorithms in the various "diff" p.d. implementations to see
how they have addressed this.
hth (but doubt it)
--
Peter Hill,
Modulus Pty. Ltd.,
http://www.modulus.com.au/
------------------------------
Date: 08 Jun 2000 15:19:53 -0700
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal L. Schwartz)
Subject: Re: Encrypting / decrypting.
Message-Id: <m1bt1b95o6.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com>
>>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> writes:
Godzilla!> $sample =~ s/(.)/sprintf('%02x',ord($1))/ge;
$sample = unpack "H*", $sample;
Godzilla!> $sample =~ s/([0-9A-Fa-f]{2})/sprintf("%c",hex($1))/ge;
$sample = pack "H*", $sample;
Huge CPU optimization for both, and much clearer about what you are doing.
Note that I'm *not* blessing the use of such a trivial
pseudo-encryption scheme. I'm just trying to stamp out going around
the back door of the house when the front door is unlocked. :)
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:12:39 -0700
From: Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Encrypting / decrypting.
Message-Id: <MPG.13a9c83d978fb37898ab49@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <m1bt1b95o6.fsf@halfdome.holdit.com> on 08 Jun 2000 15:19:53
-0700, Randal L. Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> says...
> >>>>> "Godzilla!" == Godzilla! <godzilla@stomp.stomp.tokyo> writes:
>
> Godzilla!> $sample =~ s/(.)/sprintf('%02x',ord($1))/ge;
>
> $sample = unpack "H*", $sample;
>
> Godzilla!> $sample =~ s/([0-9A-Fa-f]{2})/sprintf("%c",hex($1))/ge;
>
> $sample = pack "H*", $sample;
>
> Huge CPU optimization for both, and much clearer about what you are doing.
We had a thread on exactly this quite recently, where I showed the troll
benchmarked performance gains of about 40 to 1. But she has a certain
set of tools and is unwilling to sharpen or upgrade them.
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 00:41:49 GMT
From: Ilja Tabachnik <billy@arnis-bsl.com>
Subject: Re: file access
Message-Id: <8hpega$si6$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <12P%4.1492$QT5.24089@news.iol.ie>,
ericm@iol.ie (Eric Mosley) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I will have a cgi perl program that will take names and emails from a
form
> on a web page and save them to a file.
>
> What happens if two people submit at the same time?
>
> Each instance of the cgi perl program will try and open the file and
write
> to it at the same time? Is there any way of stopping that?
>
You need file locking.
Consult your local 'perldoc -f flock' or
http://www.cpan.org/doc/manual/html/pod/perlfunc/flock.html.
Also do not miss 'perldoc perlfaq5' (or
http://www.cpan.org/doc/manual/html/pod/perlfaq5.html) topics
regarding file locking.
Hope this helps.
Ilja.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:22:40 -0700
From: Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings?
Message-Id: <MPG.13a9ca96a209047898ab4a@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <8hp4jl$lfn$1@news.panix.com> on 8 Jun 2000 21:52:53 GMT,
Abigail <abigail@arena-i.com> says...
> On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:00:23 -0700, Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> ++ In article <slrn8jvlc7.r67.tjla@thislove.dyndns.org> on Thu, 08 Jun 2000
> ++ 17:16:36 GMT, Gwyn Judd <tjla@guvfybir.qlaqaf.bet> says...
> ++
> ++ ...
> ++
> ++ > If you call this with (say) arguments 3,8 then you get hundreds and
> ++ > hundreds of "Deep recursion..." warnings. Is there any way to turn these
> ++ > off for a situation like this when you know the algorithm terminates?
> ++
> ++ $SIG{__WARN__} = sub { };
>
> Or:
>
> no warnings 'recursion';
>
> which can be localized to the sub.
So can the setting of $SIG{__WARN__}.
How would one know that 'recursion' is a parameter for the 'warnings'
pragma? The following is the ActivePerl 5.6.0 documentation; I couldn't
find anything on the www.perl.com site.
SYNOPSIS
use warnings;
no warnings;
use warnings "all";
no warnings "all";
use warnings::register;
if (warnings::enabled()) {
warnings::warn("some warning");
}
if (warnings::enabled("void")) {
warnings::warn("void", "some warning");
}
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 2000 23:40:16 GMT
From: simon@brecon.co.uk (Simon Cozens)
Subject: Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings?
Message-Id: <slrn8k0bn0.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org>
Larry Rosler (comp.lang.perl.misc):
>> Or:
>>
>> no warnings 'recursion';
>>
>> which can be localized to the sub.
>
>So can the setting of $SIG{__WARN__}.
>
>How would one know that 'recursion' is a parameter for the 'warnings'
>pragma? The following is the ActivePerl 5.6.0 documentation; I couldn't
>find anything on the www.perl.com site.
perldoc perllexwarn
--
I've looked at the listing, and it's right!
-- Joel Halpern
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jun 2000 00:18:14 GMT
From: abigail@arena-i.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings?
Message-Id: <8hpd46$p10$1@news.panix.com>
On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:22:40 -0700, Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
++ In article <8hp4jl$lfn$1@news.panix.com> on 8 Jun 2000 21:52:53 GMT,
++ Abigail <abigail@arena-i.com> says...
++ > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:00:23 -0700, Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
++ > ++ In article <slrn8jvlc7.r67.tjla@thislove.dyndns.org> on Thu, 08 Jun 2000
++ > ++ 17:16:36 GMT, Gwyn Judd <tjla@guvfybir.qlaqaf.bet> says...
++ > ++
++ > ++ ...
++ > ++
++ > ++ > If you call this with (say) arguments 3,8 then you get hundreds and
++ > ++ > hundreds of "Deep recursion..." warnings. Is there any way to turn these
++ > ++ > off for a situation like this when you know the algorithm terminates?
++ > ++
++ > ++ $SIG{__WARN__} = sub { };
++ >
++ > Or:
++ >
++ > no warnings 'recursion';
++ >
++ > which can be localized to the sub.
++
++ So can the setting of $SIG{__WARN__}.
++
++ How would one know that 'recursion' is a parameter for the 'warnings'
++ pragma? The following is the ActivePerl 5.6.0 documentation; I couldn't
++ find anything on the www.perl.com site.
Well, I use the documentation that came with my version of Perl.
++
++ SYNOPSIS
++
++ use warnings;
++ no warnings;
++
++ use warnings "all";
++ no warnings "all";
++
++ use warnings::register;
++
++ if (warnings::enabled()) {
++ warnings::warn("some warning");
++ }
++
++ if (warnings::enabled("void")) {
++ warnings::warn("void", "some warning");
++ }
....
See the Pragmatic Modules entry in the perlmod manpage and
the perllexwarn manpage.
$ man perllexwarn
...
all -+
|
...
|
+- recursion
|
...
Abigail
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:35:04 -0700
From: Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: How to turn off "Deep recursion" warnings?
Message-Id: <MPG.13a9db96f8ac4e1098ab50@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <slrn8k0bn0.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org> on 8 Jun
2000 23:40:16 GMT, Simon Cozens <simon@brecon.co.uk> says...
> Larry Rosler (comp.lang.perl.misc):
...
> >How would one know that 'recursion' is a parameter for the 'warnings'
> >pragma? The following is the ActivePerl 5.6.0 documentation; I couldn't
> >find anything on the www.perl.com site.
>
> perldoc perllexwarn
Thanks. That is referred to at the very end of the document I quoted,
`perldoc warnings`, but I overlooked it.
Time for another look at `perldoc perltoc` too. Lots of new goodies
there!
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 15:32:55 -0700
From: john <johnNOjoSPAM@appmagic.com.invalid>
Subject: Re: HTTPS with LWP
Message-Id: <1b145029.5f63b156@usw-ex0104-028.remarq.com>
In article
<Pine.BSF.4.21.0006071012350.79067-100000@king.cts.com>, Jason
Brown <jrbrown@cts.com> wrote:
>
>I am writing a PERL script to fetch a web page encrypted by SSL.
>
>I installed:
>
>>I got the following error:
>
>Failed: 500 Can't connect to www.helsinki.fi:443 (Bad file
number)
>
>
>What am I doing wrong?????
I'm doing the same thing on Windows NT (using the same versions
of modules Cryp-Leay, libwww, and openssl) and get the same
error. With debugging turned on I see:
LWP::UserAgent::new: ()
retrieving
https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+Loginpage
LWP::UserAgent::request: ()
LWP::UserAgent::simple_request: GET
https://trading.etrade.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+Loginpage
LWP::UserAgent::_need_proxy: Not proxied
LWP::Protocol::http::request: ()
LWP::UserAgent::request: Simple response: Internal Server Error
Error: 500 Can't connect to trading.etrade.com:443 (Bad file
descriptor)
So far, I've tracked it down to the connect in openssl returning
a -1 for all favors of SSL. Let me know if you figure it out.
John Anderson
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 2000 23:44:26 GMT
From: simon@brecon.co.uk (Simon Cozens)
Subject: Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com!
Message-Id: <slrn8k0buq.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org>
Drew Simonis (comp.lang.perl.misc):
>I'm just excited about the idea. Larry Rosler is a big name,
>and just his mention of the idea could lend weight to the
>notion.
Larry Wall is bigger. :) Sorry, I don't think it's going to happen.
It's like trying to define an ANSI standard English, in lots of ways.
--
"There is no statute of limitations on stupidity."
-- Randomly produced by a computer program called Markov3.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:24:04 -0700
From: Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com!
Message-Id: <MPG.13a9d8ff75dda83e98ab4f@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <slrn8k0buq.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org> on 8 Jun
2000 23:44:26 GMT, Simon Cozens <simon@brecon.co.uk> says...
> Drew Simonis (comp.lang.perl.misc):
> >I'm just excited about the idea. Larry Rosler is a big name,
> >and just his mention of the idea could lend weight to the
> >notion.
>
> Larry Wall is bigger. :)
Not physically! :-)
> Sorry, I don't think it's going to happen.
> It's like trying to define an ANSI standard English, in lots of ways.
With all respect, I think this is a totally bogus analogy.
English is spoken by perhaps one billion people, with dozens of local
dialects. Some dialects *can* be defined, as demonstrated by the BBC's
'standard' Queen's English, or by the New York Times style manual, or by
various dictionaries, depending on what your definition of 'defined' is.
(Shades of William Jefferson Clinton. :-)
Perl is defined by a single official open source. It is a deterministic
computer program. The most arcane DWIMmery is deterministic, hence
definable. Without looking, I'll bet there isn't a single call to
rand(3C) anywhere in the perl source.
A relevant bit of history: I am not talking about a formal definition.
Such was attempted for PL/I (named for Vienna, Virginia), was about 700
pages long, and was impenetrable and unusable. A useful definition
should be accessible to implementers and to programmers. Here is a
quote from 'Rationale for American National Standard for Information
Systems -- Programming Language -- C':
While more formal methods of language definition were explored, the
Committee decided early on to employ the style of the Base Document
[K&R Appendix A: C Reference Manual]: Backus-Naur Form for the
syntax and prose for the constraints and semantics. Anything more
ambitious was considered to be likely to delay the Standard, and
to make it less accessible to its audience.
Possibly no such definition is possible for Perl, but I seriously doubt
it.
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jun 2000 00:37:47 GMT
From: simon@brecon.co.uk (Simon Cozens)
Subject: Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com!
Message-Id: <slrn8k0f2r.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org>
Larry Rosler (comp.lang.perl.misc):
>> Sorry, I don't think it's going to happen.
>> It's like trying to define an ANSI standard English, in lots of ways.
>With all respect, I think this is a totally bogus analogy.
It doesn't stretch far, I agree. But I believe strongly that Perl is
designed and structured along the lines of a natural language. It
changes and evolves. Nailing it down would not be A Good Thing. But
then, you wrote the article on this, so you're probably not the guy I
should be arguing with. :)
>Perl is defined by a single official open source. It is a deterministic
>computer program. The most arcane DWIMmery is deterministic, hence
>definable. Without looking, I'll bet there isn't a single call to
>rand(3C) anywhere in the perl source.
I don't parse English randomly either.
--
"Why waste negative entropy on comments, when you could use the same
entropy to create bugs instead?"
-- Steve Elias
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:17:25 +0930
From: Henry <htp@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Larry Rosler interview on perl.com!
Message-Id: <htp-EBCD5B.10172509062000@news.metropolis.net.au>
> There's certainly no ANSI Perl. Does Perl need the same kind of
> official standardization that C got?
>
> LR: I believe that it does, in order to increase its acceptability.
> Many organizations either cannot or will not endorse the use of
> unstandardized languages in their business-critical activities.
Eeek!!!
<STOMP>
<sTOMP>
<stOMP>
<stoMP>
<SLAM>
<stomP>
<stomp>
<tomp>
<omp>
<mp>
<p>
<slam>
<vroom>
<squeal>
Henry.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:24:42 GMT
From: sept00@my-deja.com
Subject: Looking for basic JPEG manipulation...
Message-Id: <8hp6eo$ms7$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
I've looked far and wide, but I can't seem to find anything that really
suits my needs: I'm trying to get my hands on a module that can scale
JPEGs (photographs) for use in a gallery of user donated pictures on
the web (so yes, CGI).
I don't have the ability to compile and run any kind of programs (like
GD or Imagemagick), so I'm looking for a module or a script which can
do this on it's own.
I'd be very thankful for any help I get!!
Take care,
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:27:12 -0400
From: Nico Zigouras <zigouras@mail.med.upenn.edu>
To: sept00@my-deja.com
Subject: Re: Looking for basic JPEG manipulation...
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.4.21.0006081925420.25021-100000@mail.med.upenn.edu>
If you are simply looking to manipulate the width and height in the <img>
tag on an html page then that is pretty straightforward. See the
Image::Size module which will give you the dimensions of any gif or
jpeg. You can then scale it as you need.
On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 sept00@my-deja.com wrote:
> Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:24:42 GMT
> From: sept00@my-deja.com
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
> Subject: Looking for basic JPEG manipulation...
>
> I've looked far and wide, but I can't seem to find anything that really
> suits my needs: I'm trying to get my hands on a module that can scale
> JPEGs (photographs) for use in a gallery of user donated pictures on
> the web (so yes, CGI).
>
> I don't have the ability to compile and run any kind of programs (like
> GD or Imagemagick), so I'm looking for a module or a script which can
> do this on it's own.
>
> I'd be very thankful for any help I get!!
>
> Take care,
> Tom
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 23:51:15 GMT
From: Elaine Ashton <elaine@chaos.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: Looking for basic JPEG manipulation...
Message-Id: <B565A9B3.5C90%elaine@chaos.wustl.edu>
in article 8hp6eo$ms7$1@nnrp1.deja.com, sept00@my-deja.com at
sept00@my-deja.com quoth:
> I'd be very thankful for any help I get!!
Randal is mr. jpeg. See http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/
Ask him about his cloud pictures :)
e.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:32:54 -0700
From: "Gabe" <grichards@flashcom.net>
Subject: MIME::Lite Attach Method and Strict Pragma
Message-Id: <sk0ekhuah51173@corp.supernews.com>
MIME::Lite is generating errors when I use strict. My code is:
my $msg = new MIME::Lite
From =>'Gabe@test.com',
To =>($cgi->param($i)),
Subject =>($cgi->param('subject')),
Type =>'multipart/mixed';
attach $msg
Type =>'TEXT',
Data =>($cgi->param(message));
attach $msg
Type =>$type,
Path =>($cgi->param(attach));
$msg->send;
strict doesn't like the "attach" method saying:
Bareword "attach" not allowed while "strict subs" in use at mailadmin.cgi
line 38.
Unquoted string "attach" may clash with future reserved word at
mailadmin.cgi
What do I do?
Gabe
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jun 2000 00:34:58 GMT
From: simon@brecon.co.uk (Simon Cozens)
Subject: Re: MIME::Lite Attach Method and Strict Pragma
Message-Id: <slrn8k0eti.bh3.simon@justanother.perlhacker.org>
Gabe (comp.lang.perl.misc):
>MIME::Lite is generating errors when I use strict. My code is:
> Path =>($cgi->param(attach));
^^^^^^^
>Bareword "attach" not allowed while "strict subs" in use at mailadmin.cgi
>line 38.
I can't tell which is line 38, but isn't it more likely it would
complain about that one?
--
It's 106 miles from Birmingham, we've got an eighth of a tank of gas,
half a pack of Dorittos, it's dusk, and we're wearing contacts.
- Malcolm Ray
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
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| NOTE: The mail to news gateway, and thus the ability to submit articles
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To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 3296
**************************************
