[13596] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1006 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Oct 6 17:10:39 1999
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 14:10:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <939244224-v9-i1006@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 6 Oct 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 1006
Today's topics:
Re: LOL, please don't overanalyze :) <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Re: odd or even numbers? <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: Perl WildCards ??? HELP <msalter@bestweb.net>
Re: Perl WildCards ??? HELP (Larry Rosler)
Re: Perl WildCards ??? HELP <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: Perplexed with newlines while sending mail <sjohns17@uic.edu>
Re: print errors <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: Project Management System <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: pulling out a paricular DB Hash entry <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Question about alarm and run away processes <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Re: Regular Expressions with ÔÕÖØŒŠÙÚÛÜÝŸÞàáâãäåæçèéê c <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: To Abigail re: reading current threads <jb4mt@verbatims.com>
Re: To Abigail re: reading current threads <elaine@chaos.wustl.edu>
Re: Uploading Files via the Web <reidg@crosskeys.com>
Re: Uploading Files via the Web (Larry Rosler)
Re: You assume much when you know so little. <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Re: You assume much when you know so little. <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Re: You assume much when you know so little. <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:57:39 GMT
From: Ilya <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: LOL, please don't overanalyze :)
Message-Id: <rvndu3ur9b657@corp.supernews.com>
Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> wrote:
> I'd incorporate, with the stock initially owned by myself and my
> partners, and would offer a substantial share (a majority position, or
> close to it) of that stock to the programmer, along with real information
> (not hype or wishfull thinking) as to why this venture is going to be able
> to go public in the near future.
> If you've noticed that under this scenario you and your partners would
> not retain full control of the company, you're very perceptive. That's
> the price you have to pay to raise capital from other people.
Agreed, but I don't think he had *that* in mind...
==============================================================
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero.
-Voltaire
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:24:45 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: odd or even numbers?
Message-Id: <37FBB00D.48A3FCA@mail.cor.epa.gov>
homeless wrote:
>
> >Does anybody know if there is an easy way to check whether a scalar value
> >contains a odd or even integer?
>
> hmmmm,
> I'm not near as smart as all you perl pros, but it seems to me like
Are you sure about that? Maybe you just need more time
with Perl to get there.
> "contains" an odd or even number
> is a bit different than "is" an odd or even number.
>
> $number =~ m/[13579]/ and $number_contains_odd_integer="TRUE";
>
> Am I close?
Maybe. The question wasn't worded that well. Sometimes you
have to pull out the PSI::ESP module to figure out what the
poster really wanted.
But my PSI::ESP module tells me you knew that already. :-)
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:27:34 GMT
From: Mike Salter <msalter@bestweb.net>
Subject: Re: Perl WildCards ??? HELP
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9910061631250.9891-100000@monet.bestweb.net>
> LR> I assume you mean the Unix/POSIX 'grep' command, not the Perl 'grep'
> LR> function. The latter works on a list, which requires reading the entire
> LR> file at once, not one line at a time.
Larry:
Is there a problem with:
print grep /1200/, <INPUT>;
Supposedly grep uses $_ for each line anyway.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:33:10 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Perl WildCards ??? HELP
Message-Id: <MPG.126551e14b61022e98a04c@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <x7emf8qpe2.fsf@home.sysarch.com> on 06 Oct 1999 15:07:33 -
0400, Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> says...
> >>>>> "LR" == Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> writes:
>
> LR> In article <x7n1twqzzt.fsf@home.sysarch.com> on 06 Oct 1999 11:18:30 -
> LR> 0400, Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> says...
>
> LR> ...
>
> >> and if the problem is just getting the lines with 1200 out, use grep.
>
> LR> I assume you mean the Unix/POSIX 'grep' command, not the Perl 'grep'
> LR> function. The latter works on a list, which requires reading the entire
> LR> file at once, not one line at a time.
>
> duhh!! i ain't that dumb larry. i should have mentioned grep utility to
> be clear to her. you, on the other hand should know what i meant.
No one 'knows' what another person means. However, note that I
'assumed' that was what you meant. I just wanted to make it explicit,
because of the other posters who chose to read the whole file into
memory before processing it.
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:57:37 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: Perl WildCards ??? HELP
Message-Id: <37FBB7C1.1BE0CB56@mail.cor.epa.gov>
ingr wrote:
>
> I am certainly a Perl scripting novice and am in need of some
> assistance, URGENTLY !!!
You have received a number of answers already, some better
than others. But I have another suggestion. You may want
to try this web tutorial:
http://www.netcat.co.uk/rob/perl/win32perltut.html
which isn't actually win32-centric. It will help you get
going on regexes and some other facets of Perl. Then you
will probably want to get "Learning Perl" or "Learning Perl
for Win32 Systems" [depending on your primary machine].
These should get you moving forward again with Perl.
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:31:24 -0500
From: Seth David Johnson <sjohns17@uic.edu>
Subject: Re: Perplexed with newlines while sending mail
Message-Id: <Pine.A41.4.10.9910061530540.409656-100000@tigger.cc.uic.edu>
On Wed, 6 Oct 1999, Graham W. Boyes wrote:
> I have tried different methods replacing <BR> with \n, (tr, s, etc...)
> but when I receive the e-mail with different clients, the result is not
> consistent. For example, with Internet Mail, I received *three*
> newlines at the <BR> and with Pegasus I received the message in one
> long line.
S'pose we could see the code?
-Seth
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:50:22 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: print errors
Message-Id: <37FBB60E.BAD2DD0E@mail.cor.epa.gov>
M.J.T. Guy wrote:
>
> In article <37FA7626.AAACD0C8@mail.cor.epa.gov>,
> David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov> wrote:
> >
> >I haven't seen a situation where print() doesn't write to the
> >file without there being an error on open() or on close().
>
> You've obviously never suffered from a full partition.
Not on Slowlaris 2.6, anyway. But...
> In that case
> (at least on Solaris 2.6 [1]), you get an error return
> "No space left on device" from the print(), but no error on either
> open() or close().
>
> And no doubt there are other cases as well. Quota, file size limit
> and maximum file size come to mind.
>
> [1] This behaviour is certainly platform dependent. For example,
> on SunOS 4.1.3, both the print() and the close() report failure,
> but $! is zero in both cases.
And on a number of other variants of SunOS too. That's why
I said I hadn't seen it. But those itty-bitty default /tmp
partitions have caused me some major headaches when using
Perl with programs which by default use /tmp as their own
temporary workspace.
That's why I regularly suggest that people check the error
on their close() too.
Good points about the other causes, though. Thanks for chiming
in with them.
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:54:00 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: Project Management System
Message-Id: <37FBB6E8.AF37D167@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Yves Thommes wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> Anybody knows where I can find a Project Management System/Solution that
> runs on a Linux server ?
Perhaps you could ask in one of the linux newsgroups. Someone
there might be able to direct you to a canned program.
> User will have to access from nearly any platform, Linux, Mac, Windows
> to this System, so I guess it will have to be Web-Browser oriented,
> which most project management systems are.
Then it really doesn't have to run on linux, does it? Just
some box with a decent web server. So maybe you shouldn't rule
out Solaris, BSD, ....
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:03:25 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: pulling out a paricular DB Hash entry
Message-Id: <37FBB91D.25C9A3DF@mail.cor.epa.gov>
mandersjones@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> Is it possible to pull out the nth value from a DB hash file i.e. so
> that you can say 'for entries 10 to 20 get the value and keys'.
> Otherwise I'll have to set up separate index file won't I?
Short answer to your first question: no.
The 'relational' part of relational databases doesn't require
any particular ordering of records. But your idea about an
index would provide you with the necessary constraint.
If you are really talking about storing a Perl hash on disk,
then you *definitely* cannot depend on the ordering of the
records. The whole point of a hash is the 'hashing' function
which orders the records in a pattern you won't be able to
grok. If you need to store a hash on disk and retrieve it
in the original order, then you will want to look at the
Tie::IxHash module, which is designed to do this.
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:30:39 GMT
From: Ilya <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Question about alarm and run away processes
Message-Id: <rvncbf73n8a49@corp.supernews.com>
I process a lot of sar data with a perl script. I have seen cases where the
sar data is incomplete or corrupt and the sar process hangs and begins to
increase CPU consumption until it hits 99%.
I would like to use the alarm function to check if I am dealing with a
run-away process and if it is indeed a run-away, kill it.
Thanks,
Ilya
==============================================================
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero.
-Voltaire
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 13:19:11 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: Regular Expressions with ÔÕÖØŒŠÙÚÛÜÝŸÞàáâãäåæçèéê characters
Message-Id: <37FBAEBF.26493910@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Bill Moseley wrote:
>
> I've got a routine that is passed a list of 'words' and then bolds the
> words in a HTML document by substituting the 'word' with'<B>word</B>'.
>
> Up until now I've used \b to find a word boundary -- I don't want to
> bold words within a longer word (if my word is 'dry' I don't want to
> bold the 'dry' in 'laundry').
>
> s[\bdry\b][<b>dry</b>]g;
>
> My question is in dealing with 8 bit characters such as:
> ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐÑÒÓÔÕÖØŒŠÙÚÛÜÝŸÞàáâãäåæçèéêëìíîïðñòóôõöøœšßùúûüýþÿ
>
> How should I match a word boundary? I'm unclear if use locale will
> help. Or do I need to create my own word boundary as described in
> "Creating custom RE engines" in perlre?
'use locale;' can help, if you specify a locale which has the
desired characters in it. Otherwise, \w won't match all the
thingies you want.
If you run on 5.004 or later, you can even switch locales at
runtime. For more fun, 'perldoc perllocale' should help.
> I also have the case being passed a word like "perl*" and then I want to
> bold anything that begins with perl through the end of the word
> boundary.
Well, as long as you have the locale you want and you specify
the name like
perl\w*\b
you should be okay.
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:05:06 GMT
From: "George Jempty" <jb4mt@verbatims.com>
Subject: Re: To Abigail re: reading current threads
Message-Id: <SXNK3.881$ry3.9013@news.rdc1.ne.home.com>
> I'd be happy just to see a higher
> !! signal to noise ratio.
The signal to noise ratio for the thread that started this all was lowered
when, _hours_ after getting the correct response from 2 seperate
individuals, Abigail decided to take offense
> Not replying also means that others might get
> the impression that posting without doing any research yourself is
> acceptable behaviour
You don't know that I didn't do _any_ research.
George Jempty
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:22:00 -0400
From: Elaine -HFB- Ashton <elaine@chaos.wustl.edu>
Subject: Re: To Abigail re: reading current threads
Message-Id: <37FBAE95.D16CDAE8@chaos.wustl.edu>
Abigail wrote:
> Not replying means someone else with half a clue is going to reply,
> giving wrong answers. Not replying also means that others might get
> the impression that posting without doing any research yourself is
> acceptable behaviour - after all, answers are coming.
Oh, I'm not discouraging correct answers with a swift kick for being
totally lazy, but the silence of pointless 'me too' and 'you stupid
idjot' 15 times or more in a thread.
No, I'm all for RTFM, just not the monsterous noise level sometimes.
> I do not think that's a situation anyone benefits from.
It's a catch-22, damned if you do, damned if you don't. I've been flamed
for both helping and not helping turkeys on this newsgroup. :)
e.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:08:09 -0400
From: Reid Gravelle <reidg@crosskeys.com>
Subject: Re: Uploading Files via the Web
Message-Id: <37FBAC28.858E06B0@crosskeys.com>
jdkronicz@my-deja.com wrote:
> I want users of my website to be able to upload files to my site without
> using FTP. Is there a way to do it from the web by using a perl script?
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> JDK
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Certainly you can use a perl script. You can also do it in C, C++,
Smalltalk, Java, and even with UNIX shell scripts if you want. This is a
CGI question (along with some HTML).
Try the newsgroup comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi for more info. You
could look at http://cgi.resourceindex.com/Programs_and_Scripts/Perl/ in
the file uploading section for some ready-made scripts (either to use
directly or as examples).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 13:38:31 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Uploading Files via the Web
Message-Id: <MPG.1265532461b0a4be98a04d@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <37FBAC28.858E06B0@crosskeys.com> on Wed, 06 Oct 1999
16:08:09 -0400, Reid Gravelle <reidg@crosskeys.com> says...
> jdkronicz@my-deja.com wrote:
> > I want users of my website to be able to upload files to my site without
> > using FTP. Is there a way to do it from the web by using a perl script?
...
> Certainly you can use a perl script. You can also do it in C, C++,
> Smalltalk, Java, and even with UNIX shell scripts if you want. This is a
> CGI question (along with some HTML).
>
> Try the newsgroup comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi for more info. You
> could look at http://cgi.resourceindex.com/Programs_and_Scripts/Perl/ in
> the file uploading section for some ready-made scripts (either to use
> directly or as examples).
This is not a fair or helpful response to a legitimate Perl question.
It is easy to use Perl to do what the poster wants, via the CGI module.
Search the CGI documentation for 'upload'.
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:42:48 GMT
From: Ilya <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: You assume much when you know so little.
Message-Id: <rvnd285599a27@corp.supernews.com>
If you want qualified people to work for you, you will have to pay them.
If you want qualified people to work *with* you, which is what it seems
like, then you are seeking partners, and you will have to give a person
a pretty big chunk of the company, say 40%. But you cannot have it
both ways. You cannot have someone work for you, while you enjoy
most of the profits and pay them a fixed figure like $20/hour.
In comp.lang.perl.misc Eric Seiler <Webmaster@copscorp.com> wrote:
> I never said that I was doing this project for another person, and I agree -
> I would not arrange such an agreement if that were the case. I am however
> starting this website up as a project of my own company's and I plan to
> build a long term relationship with the programer(s) that are involved.
> We may eventually just hire someone to to the job, however paying someone
> 80+ dollars an hour up front would quickly put me seriously in debt, which
> is what I am trying to avoid in the first place. I realize that many people
> here would not be interested in working under such a pay system, but it can
> work provided that the project is a success. Granted, if the website does
> not take off - there will be no pay. However, I am not looking for
> 'established' programmers, but 'experienced' programmers. There are a lot
> of students not even out of college that have a great deal of experience
> with programming, but they are not yet established.
> This is just an opportunity like any other, and one that will go places -
> unless I bankrupt my company, which I won't do.
> What do applicants stand to gain:
> 1. Experience working on a advanced ecommerce solution, without the pressure
> of a demanding client/customer beating down your door wondering when his or
> her program will be done.
> 2. The chance to be part of something that has the potential to be huge -
> from the beginning.
> 3. A chance to make a lot of money. I emphasize 'chance' because I won't
> sugarcoat anything and say you 'will' make money. There are many MLM
> companies who operate in a similar fashion, but I can gauruntee you this -
> we are not an MLM, and oppose the tactics used by many such companies.
> What you stand to lose:
> 1. Time. That is the only risk someone puts into this project. We don't ask
> anyone to buy anything, or invest money in this venture.
> I believe in being totally honest with anyone who applies, but I didn't
> realize that by saying 'based on the net profitability' of the website it
> would offend anyone.
> Quite frankly, I don't have a huge budget to work from, and I will look for
> places to save money where ever I can. WHEN this venture takes off, I do
> plan to hire full time programmers on salary, and the people who are on the
> ground floor will be first in line.
> If you mean to tell me 'you have to spend gobs of money to make money' then
> you are probably right, BUT all of that money doesn't have to be upfront.
> Eric Seiler
> Cops, Inc.
> Ethan H. Poole wrote in message <37EFA5DF.E7EF6F8C@ingress.com>...
>>Eric Seiler wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello, I am designing a business site that requires more then what I can
> get
>>> out of pre-written scripts. The sort of scripting I need is pretty
>>> advanced, and only those familar with user management, and ecommerce
>>> scripting need apply. Pay would be dependent on the net profitability of
>>> the website.
>>
>>You just ruled out all of the experienced programmers.
>>
>>Experienced programmers seldom ever choose to bear another party's risks
>>-- it almost never makes any financial sense unless there is a real chance
>>that the business is going to become the next MS (which is unlikely and
>>even then they would demand shares). The success of a venture depends at
>>least as much on the competence of the Sales and Marketing people and the
>>product or service. The programmer can develop the best e-commerce
>>solution the world has ever seen and it will likely go *nowhere* if nobody
>>knows about the product/service or if the product/service is inferior.
>>These are variables beyond the programmers control, assuming the risk is
>>like voluntarily shooting oneself in the foot.
>>
>>If I were a client of yours I would be rather concerned if I knew your
>>e-commerce solution was devised by a programmer with limited to no
>>experience in the field simply because you wanted to save a few dollars.
>>
>>--
>>Ethan H. Poole **** BUSINESS ****
>>ehpoole@ingress.com ==Interact2Day, Inc.==
>>(personal) http://www.interact2day.com/
==============================================================
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero.
-Voltaire
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:44:27 GMT
From: Ilya <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: You assume much when you know so little.
Message-Id: <rvnd5b6199a80@corp.supernews.com>
In comp.lang.perl.misc Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> wrote:
> : 2. The chance to be part of something that has the potential to be huge -
> : from the beginning.
> This is a feel-good statement with no concrete meaning, unless you're
> offering equity.
Exactly...
==============================================================
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero.
-Voltaire
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:46:35 GMT
From: Ilya <ilya@speakeasy.org>
Subject: Re: You assume much when you know so little.
Message-Id: <rvnd9bbm99a92@corp.supernews.com>
In comp.lang.perl.misc Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> wrote:
> You seem to be asserting in these three paragraphs that the quality of the
> software written to support your startup e-commerce site is the *only*
> variable that will affect how much, if any, money the venture makes. That
> is simply not believable. No business functions that way. While bad
> operations software can certainly *break* a business all by itself, good
> software can't *make* a business all by itself.
> Have you considered what will happen if an emergency arises and you need
> something changed or some new software written *right now*? What if your
> programmer isn't in a position to set aside his day job or his studies to do
> the extra work? If the software forms the entire basis of your operation,
> it's mission-critical, and yet you're expecting someone to develop *and
> maintain* it in return for the uncertain prospect of future money?
> Once again, you are looking for an investor. An investor of "sweat equity,"
> but an investor nonetheless. Yet you are offering terms that no prudent
> investor would accept. I can understand that you're speaking in extreme
> generalities here because you don't want to disclose your business plan to
> competitors, but if you're going to solicit investors, you're going to have
> to disclose your plans to them (requiring an NDA is fine, but after it's
> signed, you've got to talk to potential investors in specifics).
I completely agree.
> Note also that "developed software for a no-longer existing e-commerce site
> that nobody would recognize, run by a company that no longer exists and that
> has no address or phone number" isn't much to put on a resume. A
> sufficiently cynical hiring manager would take that as an attempt to
> "explain" time that was actually spent in prison.
*laugh*
> Just out of curiosity, what kind of annual profits are you realistically
> expecting, and what percentage of profits are you offerring?
That is of course, the real question.
==============================================================
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero.
-Voltaire
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 1006
**************************************
