[13513] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 923 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Sep 27 17:17:24 1999
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:10:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Message-Id: <938466623-v9-i923@ruby.oce.orst.edu>
Content-Type: text
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 27 Sep 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 923
Today's topics:
Re: running other programs from perl (James Stevenson)
Re: running other programs from perl (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: Slice in scalar context (Greg Bacon)
Re: Slice in scalar context (Larry Rosler)
Re: Slice in scalar context <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: Slice in scalar context (Larry Rosler)
threads?? <marshalc@americasm01.nt.com>
Re: threads?? <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org>
Re: threads?? <marshalc@americasm01.nt.com>
Re: threads?? <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org>
Re: toLowercase?? (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: Where did comp.lang.perl go? <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Re: Which Search engine script? <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: Why does my code NOT work? <AgitatorsBand@yahoo.com>
Re: Why does my code NOT work? <dove@synopsys.com>
Re: Writing Time Monitoring scripts, (help) <makkulka@cisco.com>
Re: You assume much when you know so little. (Eric Bohlman)
Re: You assume much when you know so little. <Webmaster@copscorp.com>
Re: You should be admired, or What does this have to do <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: You should be admired, or What does this have to do <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: You should be admired <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:29:29 +0000
From: James@linux.home (James Stevenson)
Subject: Re: running other programs from perl
Message-Id: <slrn7uvabp.td2.James@linux.home>
Hi
i kind of want to run more than 1 program at once
i need to run about 6 or more
thanks
James
On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:25:02 GMT, Kragen Sitaker <kragen@dnaco.net> wrote:
>In article <slrn7uuvja.ksf.James@linux.home>,
>James Stevenson <mistral@stevenson.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>i would like to be able to run many programs at once from
>>perl i would like to know if this is possible and how can i do it?
>>are there already existing scripts that can do this
>>or can somebody please point me in the right direction
>
>The simplest way to do this is like this:
>system("program1 &");
>system("program2 &");
>system("program3 &");
>
>There are more complex ways of doing this that have more features.
>
>HTH.
>--
><kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
>Mon Sep 27 1999
>42 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
><URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
--
---------------------------------------------
Check Out: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/james/
E-Mail: mistral@stevenson.zetnet.co.uk
5:20pm up 11 days, 4 min, 5 users, load average: 1.30, 1.26, 1.28
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:45:07 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: running other programs from perl
Message-Id: <nHQH3.2160$J66.244474@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <slrn7uvabp.td2.James@linux.home>,
James Stevenson <mistral@stevenson.zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>i kind of want to run more than 1 program at once
>i need to run about 6 or more
I explained how to do this in the post to which you are replying. I
have again included the solution below.
>On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:25:02 GMT, Kragen Sitaker <kragen@dnaco.net> wrote:
>>The simplest way to do this is like this:
>>system("program1 &");
>>system("program2 &");
>>system("program3 &");
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Mon Sep 27 1999
42 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 1999 19:13:50 GMT
From: gbacon@ruby.itsc.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: Slice in scalar context
Message-Id: <7sofle$5ee$3@info2.uah.edu>
In article <37EFA3DF.1DDC1744@stsci.edu>,
Tim Kimball <kimball@stsci.edu> writes:
: Can someone tell me why, in
: $right = ("fred","barney","wilma")[0,1,2];
: $right gets wilma? I would have thought it would
: have got the number of elements in the slice.
From the perlop manpage:
Comma Operator
Binary "," is the comma operator. In scalar context it evaluates
its left argument, throws that value away, then evaluates its right
argument and returns that value. This is just like C's comma
operator.
Greg
--
Never shy away from starting up an extra process if all it takes is a
configuration line in a web server. People might think your site is fast!
-- Abigail in <slrn7pe937.oqh.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:47:33 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Slice in scalar context
Message-Id: <MPG.125969b028bf0458989fe8@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <7sofle$5ee$3@info2.uah.edu> on 27 Sep 1999 19:13:50 GMT,
Greg Bacon <gbacon@ruby.itsc.uah.edu> says...
> In article <37EFA3DF.1DDC1744@stsci.edu>,
> Tim Kimball <kimball@stsci.edu> writes:
>
> : Can someone tell me why, in
> : $right = ("fred","barney","wilma")[0,1,2];
> : $right gets wilma? I would have thought it would
> : have got the number of elements in the slice.
>
> From the perlop manpage:
>
> Comma Operator
>
> Binary "," is the comma operator. In scalar context it evaluates
> its left argument, throws that value away, then evaluates its right
> argument and returns that value. This is just like C's comma
> operator.
True. But you forgot to share your favorite kludge to get the number of
elements in the slice:
$right = () = ("fred","barney","wilma")[0,1,2];
:-)
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 1999 16:33:32 -0400
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: Slice in scalar context
Message-Id: <x71zbk14df.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "LR" == Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> writes:
LR> True. But you forgot to share your favorite kludge to get the
LR> number of elements in the slice:
LR> $right = () = ("fred","barney","wilma")[0,1,2];
now that is as fine a wast of code as i have seen in a while. you have a
constant list for the index of the slice and then you need to count the
length of the list? even it the list was an array that would be dumb.
so at least show an example using split or something where getting the
number of elements is meaningful.
also the () in counting the number of elements in a list makes sense,
but just counting the number of elements in a slice makes little
sense. you can just count the number of elements in the index list since
you are going to discard the sliced values by assigning to ().
uri
--
Uri Guttman ----------------- SYStems ARCHitecture and Software Engineering
uri@sysarch.com --------------------------- Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
Have Perl, Will Travel ----------------------------- http://www.sysarch.com
The Best Search Engine on the Net ------------- http://www.northernlight.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:56:05 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Slice in scalar context
Message-Id: <MPG.125979bd88565191989fe9@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted and a courtesy copy mailed.]
In article <x71zbk14df.fsf@home.sysarch.com> on 27 Sep 1999 16:33:32 -
0400, Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com> says...
> >>>>> "LR" == Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> writes:
>
> LR> True. But you forgot to share your favorite kludge to get the
> LR> number of elements in the slice:
>
> LR> $right = () = ("fred","barney","wilma")[0,1,2];
>
> now that is as fine a wast of code as i have seen in a while. you have a
> constant list for the index of the slice and then you need to count the
> length of the list? even it the list was an array that would be dumb.
Which part of 'kludge' didn't you understand?
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:04:50 -0500
From: Marshall Culpepper <marshalc@americasm01.nt.com>
Subject: threads??
Message-Id: <37EFBFD2.A44DB91F@americasm01.nt.com>
Hi,
I have somewhat of a dilemma here....I have a script that exec()'s a
file and waits for it to finish executing...
What I want to be doing is timing the execution of the file in the
background and printing it back out to the user let's say every
second....
So the question I have is should I thread this or is there a better way
to go about doing it? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
(Here's my system info FYI)
perl 5.004_04
HP-UX 10.20
Thanks!
~Marshall
--
Homer - "No beer, No TV make Homer something something",
Marge - "Go crazy??",
Homer - "Don't mind if I do!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:33:58 GMT
From: Dan Sugalski <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org>
Subject: Re: threads??
Message-Id: <GEPH3.1859$Af7.35722@news.rdc1.ct.home.com>
Marshall Culpepper <marshalc@americasm01.nt.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have somewhat of a dilemma here....I have a script that exec()'s a
> file and waits for it to finish executing...
> What I want to be doing is timing the execution of the file in the
> background and printing it back out to the user let's say every
> second....
> So the question I have is should I thread this or is there a better way
> to go about doing it? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Given your system, threads are right out (both perl version and OS
version). If you want the program to be responsive, then use magic open to
fire off the program (open FOO, "./do_something |"). You can then continue
on and occasionally check to see if the program's finished executing. (I
think you can select on these filehandles to see if there's data, but I'm
not sure)
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:43:27 -0500
From: Marshall Culpepper <marshalc@americasm01.nt.com>
Subject: Re: threads??
Message-Id: <37EFC8DF.4C5220C4@americasm01.nt.com>
> Given your system, threads are right out (both perl version and OS
> version).
Ya, I guess that's true.
> If you want the program to be responsive, then use magic open to
> fire off the program (open FOO, "./do_something |"). You can then continue
> on and occasionally check to see if the program's finished executing.
I'm not really checking for it to be finished...If I wanted something like
that I could just stick a wait() in there...
What I really am looking for is a way to time the execution of it, while it's
running (no pun intended), but something like this:
open(CMD,"cmd |");
while(<CMD>){
#...
}
only sends back the output of the file line by line and localy sets $_ to
that line, so processing time that way wouldn't be effecient...
> (I
> think you can select on these filehandles to see if there's data, but I'm
> not sure)
That really doesn't relate to the problem, but thanks for your info!
~Marshall
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:31:48 GMT
From: Dan Sugalski <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org>
Subject: Re: threads??
Message-Id: <UuQH3.1866$Af7.36082@news.rdc1.ct.home.com>
Marshall Culpepper <marshalc@americasm01.nt.com> wrote:
>> If you want the program to be responsive, then use magic open to
>> fire off the program (open FOO, "./do_something |"). You can then continue
>> on and occasionally check to see if the program's finished executing.
> I'm not really checking for it to be finished...If I wanted something like
> that I could just stick a wait() in there...
If you're checking wall time, then you *do* want to check to see if it's
finished. You just don't want to block during the check. If it's still
there, then you note the time and do whatever display you're interested in
doing.
> What I really am looking for is a way to time the execution of it, while it's
> running (no pun intended), but something like this:
> open(CMD,"cmd |");
> while(<CMD>){
> #...
> }
> only sends back the output of the file line by line and localy sets $_ to
> that line, so processing time that way wouldn't be effecient...
Right, that's why you don't read from the filehandle unless you're sure
the child process is sending stuff out regularly.
Regardless, caffiene has set my brain in motion and a more obvious
solution's occurred to me. What'd be easier is to do a fork and exec, with
a SIGCHLD handler in the parent process. Something like:
$is_done = 0;
$SIG{CHLD} = {$is_done = 1};
if (fork()) {
while(!$is_done) {
sleep 1;
# Update the display
}
wait;
} else {
exec("whatever");
}
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:57:12 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: toLowercase??
Message-Id: <ISQH3.2175$J66.246494@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <gCTvNwfGsCQNVpUCfVCL0fqByzLl@4ax.com>,
Reiner Buehl <Reiner_Buehl@hp.com> wrote:
>Why don't you use just the lc() function of perl?
Abigail was joking. Or possibly trolling, which could be considered a
sort of a joke.
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Mon Sep 27 1999
42 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 1999 21:46:48 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: Where did comp.lang.perl go?
Message-Id: <7sm488$dmt$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:49:11 +0200 Rik. wrote:
>
> meow <meowing@banet.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
> 873dw1h0hg.fsf@slip-32-101-160-194.ma.us.ibm.net...
>> Rik <rusenet@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I posted a question this afternoon but now the ng just dissapeared!
>>
>> It disappeared in May 1995, when it was renamed to
>> comp.lang.perl.misc. It would seem that cistron is *very* far behind
>> in its server upkeep.
>
> Strange. :-)
> I read other messages in the group this afternoon:-)
>
I believe that some poorly administered servers will recreate groups
when they receive posts for them - and the number of posts we receive
that have comp.lang.perl it doesnt surprise me at all. No properly
configured news server will carry comp.lang.perl any more.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:47:37 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: Which Search engine script?
Message-Id: <37EFD7E9.95B72A14@mail.cor.epa.gov>
[BTW, one reason why people may not have been answering you
is that you posted in MIME. Usenet is supposed to be text-only
unless you're posting binaries to one of the *.binaries.*
groups. Please turn this off in your newsreader. TIA.]
> van Weelden wrote:
>
> I have a homepage with information of different companies. Now I want
> to install a search engine on this homepage, but which script is the best and
> easy to use? It must be possible to search HTML pages with keywords. But it
> must also be possible to look for a specific company name, country, etc...
This is considered off-topic in this newsgroup. But you will
do a lot better going to a site like Yahoo and searching for
Perl scripts than you will asking here. Yahoo has lots of
links to places like www.freshmeat.net and cgi.resourceindex.com
so you should be able to find dozens of search scripts.
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:57:00 GMT
From: Scratchie <AgitatorsBand@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why does my code NOT work?
Message-Id: <g_PH3.407$oy2.81302@news.shore.net>
Rik. <rusenet@bigfoot.com> wrote:
: The script goes fine, BUT when i pass in the part marked with # HEY I PASSED
: THIS IN the whole thing ends up with an Server error. All files do exist.
While Martien is of course correct in that it's better not to re-invent
the wheel with regards to parsing CGI input, that's not the source of your
problem.
In all likelihood, the script is not finding the file because it's not in
the same working directory (you are only specifying a file name, not an
absolute path).
You may want to consider using CGI::Carp('fatalsToBrowser') in your script
so that your error messages (when you "die") will appear in your web
browser instead of generating a server error. You should also check the
value of $! when you "die" after a failed open since this should tell you
the reason the open failed.
Hope this helps,
--Art
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.agitators.com/calendar/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:00:15 -0700
From: David Amann <dove@synopsys.com>
Subject: Re: Why does my code NOT work?
Message-Id: <37EFDADE.201A88A9@synopsys.com>
Hi Rik,
"Rik." wrote:
> I'm working on a cgi, which should do the following
>
> The script goes fine, BUT when i pass in the part marked with # HEY I PASSED
> THIS IN the whole thing ends up with an Server error. All files do exist.
>
(part of script deleted)
>
> # HEY I PASSED THIS IN
>
> $INPUT_FILE = $INPUT{'id'};
>
> if (-e INPUT_FILE) then {
> open(INPUT_FILE) or die "FOUT";
Your script is dying here. If you want to know why it's dying you should use
the $! variable and check your server logs. Since your standard output is
buffered, and your error output is unbuffered, your script is printing out
"FOUT" before it prints out your content-type header. This is causing the
Server Error message in your browser.
(rest of script deleted)
>
> Now anyone who knows what is wrong about this?
>
Try this script instead. It uses the CGI.pm module to make things easier.
#!/usr/local/bin/perl-5.004 -wT
# Always use -w to catch errors. -T should be used for CGIs.
# password.cgi
# Author: Dav Amann (dove@synopsys.com)
# Version: 1.0
#
use strict; # Always use strict.
use CGI qw/:standard/;
use CGI::Carp qw/fatalsToBrowser/; # Helpful in debugging CGI scripts
# Main
my $basedir = "/u/dove/public_html/examples";
my @lines;
my $default_string = "Ongeresitreerde versie";
print header(), start_html();
if (param("id") && param("pwd")) {
# A lot of the following is Rik's code cleaned up just a bit.
# Since I don't know the application very well, I don't know
# if Rik's approach is the most effective one.
my $idfile = param("id");
my $password = param("pwd");
if (-e "$basedir/$idfile") { #notice using the fullpath
open (FILE, "$basedir/$idfile")
or die "Can't open $basedir/$idfile: $!\n";
@lines = <FILE>
or die "Can't read in \@lines: $!\n";
chomp @lines; # Get rid of those nasty newlines for
# easier comparison later.
close(FILE);
if ($password eq $lines[0]) {
print "$lines[1]\n";
print "$lines[2]\n";
} else {
print "$default_string\n";
}
} else {
print "$default_string\n";
}
} else {
print "No ID or No Password Given\n";
}
Hope this helps,
-=dav
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:37:06 -0700
From: Makarand Kulkarni <makkulka@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Writing Time Monitoring scripts, (help)
Message-Id: <37EFC762.B083721D@cisco.com>
[ blackfrd wrote:
> I am trying to write a script that will monitor the time it
> takes for a Process to send messaging queries to a Legacy
> system.
perldoc -f localtime
perldoc Benchmark
--
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 1999 19:14:56 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: You assume much when you know so little.
Message-Id: <7sofng$960@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Eric Seiler (Webmaster@copscorp.com) wrote:
: We may eventually just hire someone to to the job, however paying someone
: 80+ dollars an hour up front would quickly put me seriously in debt, which
: is what I am trying to avoid in the first place. I realize that many people
: here would not be interested in working under such a pay system, but it can
: work provided that the project is a success. Granted, if the website does
: not take off - there will be no pay. However, I am not looking for
: 'established' programmers, but 'experienced' programmers. There are a lot
: of students not even out of college that have a great deal of experience
: with programming, but they are not yet established.
Ah, so in this case "experienced" means "read about or studied e-commerce
programming," *not* "has actually implemented real-life e-commerce
systems" (anyone who has already done the latter for pay would have too
many offers to do more of it for current pay to even think about spec
work). It would have helped if you stated that clearly up front. In
that case, you probably want to contact the CS or IT departments at your
local university and see if you can work out an arrangement where an
undergrad could work for you as part of an independent study course for
which he'd receive academic credit.
: This is just an opportunity like any other, and one that will go places -
: unless I bankrupt my company, which I won't do.
OK, that sounds better; you already have an established company with
operations other than this Web site you're talking about. Therefore, a
share of profits of the company as a whole starts to sound reasonable.
: What do applicants stand to gain:
:
: 1. Experience working on a advanced ecommerce solution, without the pressure
: of a demanding client/customer beating down your door wondering when his or
: her program will be done.
So this is basically a "work on it whenever you have the time and feel
like doing it" opportunity? No deadlines? The sort of thing a student
carrying a full academic load, holding down a part-time present-pay job
and a typical student social life could fit into his schedule? Something
to put on one's resume?
: 2. The chance to be part of something that has the potential to be huge -
: from the beginning.
This is a feel-good statement with no concrete meaning, unless you're
offering equity.
: 3. A chance to make a lot of money. I emphasize 'chance' because I won't
: sugarcoat anything and say you 'will' make money. There are many MLM
: companies who operate in a similar fashion, but I can gauruntee you this -
: we are not an MLM, and oppose the tactics used by many such companies.
All "business opportunities" claim this. You need to show how you're
different, not just say that you are.
: What you stand to lose:
:
: 1. Time. That is the only risk someone puts into this project. We don't ask
: anyone to buy anything, or invest money in this venture.
Most people's time is very valuable to them. Are you saying they won't
have to put much time into this? If not, you're pretty much limiting
yourself to people who don't regard their time as worth much. That means
either trust-fund kids, or people who are desperate.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:53:17 -0400
From: "Eric Seiler" <Webmaster@copscorp.com>
Subject: Re: You assume much when you know so little.
Message-Id: <RPQH3.156$AH1.185828@news.abs.net>
Eric Bohlman wrote in message <7sofng$960@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>...
>Eric Seiler (Webmaster@copscorp.com) wrote:
>: We may eventually just hire someone to to the job, however paying someone
>: 80+ dollars an hour up front would quickly put me seriously in debt,
which
>: is what I am trying to avoid in the first place. I realize that many
people
>: here would not be interested in working under such a pay system, but it
can
>: work provided that the project is a success. Granted, if the website
does
>: not take off - there will be no pay. However, I am not looking for
>: 'established' programmers, but 'experienced' programmers. There are a
lot
>: of students not even out of college that have a great deal of experience
>: with programming, but they are not yet established.
>
>Ah, so in this case "experienced" means "read about or studied e-commerce
>programming," *not* "has actually implemented real-life e-commerce
>systems" (anyone who has already done the latter for pay would have too
>many offers to do more of it for current pay to even think about spec
>work). It would have helped if you stated that clearly up front. In
>that case, you probably want to contact the CS or IT departments at your
>local university and see if you can work out an arrangement where an
>undergrad could work for you as part of an independent study course for
>which he'd receive academic credit.
LOL, if you knew what my local colleges were like you would take that back
;-)
>
>: This is just an opportunity like any other, and one that will go places -
>: unless I bankrupt my company, which I won't do.
>
>OK, that sounds better; you already have an established company with
>operations other than this Web site you're talking about. Therefore, a
>share of profits of the company as a whole starts to sound reasonable.
>
>: What do applicants stand to gain:
>:
>: 1. Experience working on a advanced ecommerce solution, without the
pressure
>: of a demanding client/customer beating down your door wondering when his
or
>: her program will be done.
>
>So this is basically a "work on it whenever you have the time and feel
>like doing it" opportunity? No deadlines? The sort of thing a student
>carrying a full academic load, holding down a part-time present-pay job
>and a typical student social life could fit into his schedule? Something
>to put on one's resume?
>
No dealines? No. Liberal deadlines? Yes. Quite frankly, I don't expect this
project to fill someone's entire schedule at first. I already have
everything else in place, and now I need a programmer. I have time to take
a chance on someone that is unproven, and if they come up with something
marketable (with our help) the website will take off, their terms will
change, and everyone will be happy. If the website does take off then they
lost some time, gained some experience, and added something to their resume.
At that point we look for someone else, or hire someone else.
>: 2. The chance to be part of something that has the potential to be huge -
>: from the beginning.
>
>This is a feel-good statement with no concrete meaning, unless you're
>offering equity.
Read one of my other responses about overanalyzing. These terms are not in
stone.
>: 3. A chance to make a lot of money. I emphasize 'chance' because I won't
>: sugarcoat anything and say you 'will' make money. There are many MLM
>: companies who operate in a similar fashion, but I can gauruntee you
this -
>: we are not an MLM, and oppose the tactics used by many such companies.
>
>All "business opportunities" claim this. You need to show how you're
>different, not just say that you are.
What should I say? I have studied the market closely, and have been a part
of it for a few years, and think it can be done better? Well, I have...but
then again you are relying on my word, and their aren't many studies about
that market to be found. Needless to say - it is a growing market, and is
perfectly suited for the internet.
>: What you stand to lose:
>:
>: 1. Time. That is the only risk someone puts into this project. We don't
ask
>: anyone to buy anything, or invest money in this venture.
>
>Most people's time is very valuable to them. Are you saying they won't
>have to put much time into this? If not, you're pretty much limiting
>yourself to people who don't regard their time as worth much. That means
>either trust-fund kids, or people who are desperate.
>
You miss the whole point then - the more time they invest the more likely it
is to succeed. I'm not looking for desperate people, but I am looking for
open-minded people. I don't consider them one in the same.
Eric Seiler
Cops, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:41:09 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: You should be admired, or What does this have to do with Perl?
Message-Id: <37EFD665.92B1EB3D@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Robert W. Byrd wrote:
>
> Uri Guttman wrote:
>
> > that hasn't happened yet. we rarely see new regulars here who can answer
> > questions well. occasionally newbies or intermediates try and they tend
> > to post bugs or worse. so the next generation hasn't matured yet (and
> > who knwos if they will ever do that).
>
> I think I resent that.
As well you should. I don't recall seeing any spurious code
coming from your address. And Uri is conveniently forgetting
about Kragen, who has taken a major part of the load upon him-
self. There are plenty of others too. Like me. I was a Perl
wannabe when I started reading this NG (several years ago),
then I only started answering questions here less than a year
ago. OTOH, no one thinks I'm mature. :-)
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: 27 Sep 1999 16:44:33 -0400
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: You should be admired, or What does this have to do with Perl?
Message-Id: <x7wvtcythq.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "DC" == David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov> writes:
DC> Robert W. Byrd wrote:
>>
>> Uri Guttman wrote:
>>
>> > that hasn't happened yet. we rarely see new regulars here who can answer
>> > questions well. occasionally newbies or intermediates try and they tend
>> > to post bugs or worse. so the next generation hasn't matured yet (and
>> > who knwos if they will ever do that).
>>
>> I think I resent that.
DC> As well you should. I don't recall seeing any spurious code
DC> coming from your address. And Uri is conveniently forgetting
DC> about Kragen, who has taken a major part of the load upon him-
DC> self. There are plenty of others too. Like me. I was a Perl
DC> wannabe when I started reading this NG (several years ago),
DC> then I only started answering questions here less than a year
DC> ago. OTOH, no one thinks I'm mature. :-)
i was going to ignore byrd. and i didn't forget about kragen, he and i
shared private email about it. he needed my recognition. :-) and rarely
covers the one relatively new regular that he seems to be. so he
supports my thesis.
and you are not yet mature. you still smell like gouda when you should
stink like limburger!
uri
--
Uri Guttman ----------------- SYStems ARCHitecture and Software Engineering
uri@sysarch.com --------------------------- Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
Have Perl, Will Travel ----------------------------- http://www.sysarch.com
The Best Search Engine on the Net ------------- http://www.northernlight.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:37:22 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: You should be admired
Message-Id: <37EFD582.99F96D63@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Michel Dalle wrote:
> Hmm, I see I missed another one of those (in)famous Perl threads...
> Well, there'll be another one next week, I suppose :-)
Or later today...
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: 16 Sep 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 16 Sep 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 923
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