[13376] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 786 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Sep 13 23:17:21 1999
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:10:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 13 Sep 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 786
Today's topics:
Re: Question about split (Abigail)
Re: Question about split (Matthew Miller)
Re: Question about split (Matthew Miller)
Re: Question about split (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: Question about split (Kragen Sitaker)
Re: rand questions <agray@infoscience.otago.ac.nz>
Re: rand questions <scatt@goes.com>
Re: Reading symbolic links (Abigail)
Re: Regular Expresions (Abigail)
Re: running Perl files on Apache 1.3 running under Wind (Abigail)
Re: Searching by date problem. (Larry Rosler)
Re: syslog / linux (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: UNCRAP project proposal <uri@sysarch.com>
Re: where is Perl for Win32 build 303? (Eric Bohlman)
Re: XML plus XSL to HTML? (Eric Bohlman)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1999 21:13:54 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Question about split
Message-Id: <slrn7trc04.f00.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Matthew Miller (namille2@news.vt.edu) wrote on MMCCIV September MCMXCIII
in <URL:news:7rj2ql$4ta$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>:
::
:: I'm working on a program and I'm having some problems with the split function
:: What happens is split returns a list that contains an undefined element at
:: position 0. The offending code is below.
::
:: $expression = "f(a,b,c)";
:: @variables = split /[\(\),]/, substr( $expressions, 1);
::
:: I strip off the first charactor from the string and split around () and ,. Th
:: contents of @variables is now ('', a, b, c). What causes this? This was a har
:: bug to track down. While I could write some code to remove the '' from the
:: list, I would rather know why the first element is undefined. Do I need to
:: change my regexp? If so, what would provide the match I want i.e (a, b, c)?
You are confused. As you said, the first element of @variables is ''.
'' is *NOT* the same as undefined. The reason you get '' is that "(a,b,c)"
starts with the substring "(", which is something you split on.
And as the manual will tell you, by default, split *keeps* leading empty
fields, and discards trailing empty fields. Why you are getting a leading
empty string, consider splitting the string "f(a,b,c)" on /[(),]/. Now,
you would expect "f" to be the first field, and "a" to be the second
field, right? Now, if I replace "f" with the empty string, so my string
is "(a,b,c)", why wouldn't you assume "" would be the first field, and
"a" the second field when splitting?
One last remark, there's no reason to backwack the parens inside the [].
/[(),]/ will do just fine.
Abigail
--
$" = "/"; split $, => eval join "+" => 1 .. 7;
*{"@_"} = sub {foreach (sort keys %_) {print "$_ $_{$_} "}};
%{"@_"} = %_ = (Just => another => Perl => Hacker); &{%{%_}};
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------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1999 02:19:33 GMT
From: namille2@news.vt.edu (Matthew Miller)
Subject: Re: Question about split
Message-Id: <7rkbbl$a52$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:03:21 GMT, Kragen Sitaker <kragen@dnaco.net> wrote:
>
>Well, there is a null string before the first (, so split gives it to you.
>
>perl -e 'print ((map { "<$_>" } split /x/, "xyzxyzx"), "\n")' gives
><><yz><yz>
>
>It is emphatically *NOT* an undefined element. It is well-defined as
>being the empty string.
>
>Note that split doesn't give you the null string after the last x in
>the above string.
>
>This behavior is described in the first two lines of text in 'perldoc
>-f split'.
Kragen, thanks for your explaination. I understand now about getting
a null string from split. Now, I only wish split didn't do such a
thing. I've now got a work around. I just believe that split should
refrain spitting out a null string that (in my case) is not needed.
But, then I'm no language designer :)
Thanks, Matthew
--
It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely
the most important. -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, "A Case of Identity"
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1999 02:47:37 GMT
From: namille2@news.vt.edu (Matthew Miller)
Subject: Re: Question about split
Message-Id: <7rkd09$a52$2@solaris.cc.vt.edu>
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:13:26 -0400, Jeff Pinyan <jeffp@crusoe.net> wrote:
>From perldoc -f split:
>
> Splits a string into an array of strings, and returns it. By default,
> empty leading fields are preserved, and empty trailing ones are deleted.
>
>Before the "(", there is an empty field.
>After the ")", there is an empty field, but it gets removed.
>
>It's not a bug. Find some way around it. Personally, I'd do:
>
> $string = "f(a,b,c)";
> @args = split /,/, substr($string, 2, length($string) - 3);
>
>That's how I'd approach it.
Thank you Jeff. Thats a good solution and the one that I will use,
thanks a bunch :) Your right it's not a bug. But neither is a null
string of any use (at least in this situation).
Thanks, Matthew
--
It has long been an axiom of mine that the little things are infinitely
the most important. -- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, "A Case of Identity"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:58:50 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: Question about split
Message-Id: <KRiD3.9384$N77.719487@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <7rkbbl$a52$1@solaris.cc.vt.edu>,
Matthew Miller <namille2@REMOVE.vt.edu> wrote:
>Kragen, thanks for your explaination. I understand now about getting
>a null string from split. Now, I only wish split didn't do such a
>thing. I've now got a work around. I just believe that split should
>refrain spitting out a null string that (in my case) is not needed.
>
>But, then I'm no language designer :)
I think designing a perfect computer language is as impossible as
painting a perfect painting or writing a perfect poem, and as
tempting. :)
I think split's current behavior probably makes sense most of the time,
though. But there are (obviously) cases where it doesn't work as one
might like.
And Perl's plethora of nothingnesses puzzled me for at least a year
when I was first learning the language, despite the clear explanation
in the 4.036 man page. (It's clear to me now. It wasn't clear to me
then. The wording of the man page hasn't changed.) You have empty
lists and empty strings, which are pretty straightforward, as well as
undefined scalars (which also happen to be empty strings). Now with
Perl5, you can also have hash items that don't exist, which are
different from hash items that exist and have a value of undef.
So don't feel bad. It really is confusing. But man, does it get
things done :)
Kragen
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Mon Sep 13 1999
56 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:00:15 GMT
From: kragen@dnaco.net (Kragen Sitaker)
Subject: Re: Question about split
Message-Id: <3TiD3.9387$N77.720532@typ11.nn.bcandid.com>
In article <slrn7trc04.f00.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>,
Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
>And as the manual will tell you, by default, split *keeps* leading empty
>fields, and discards trailing empty fields.
The manual *does* say that is the default. Does that mean there's a
way to change it? I couldn't find one mentioned there.
Kragen
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Mon Sep 13 1999
56 days until the Internet stock bubble bursts on Monday, 1999-11-08.
<URL:http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/bubble.html>
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1999 13:13:57 +1200
From: Andrew Gray <agray@infoscience.otago.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: rand questions
Message-Id: <ug10ifg6i.fsf@infoscience.otago.ac.nz>
Joakim Hove <hove@ido.phys.ntnu.no> writes:
> Gene Senyszyn <scatt@goes.com> writes:
> > The variable $x gets converted to an integer, however the next random
> > number can be 4.3333, where the last one was maybe 4.2222, and they both
> > print the same lines.
> I take it that you consider writing the same array element two times
> in a row as some sort of "a bug"? The following little program writes
> out all the elements of the array @list in randomised order.
<SNIP non-strict code>
> I'm sure this can be done in _many_ other, and probably better
> ways. But as far as I can see it solves your spesific problem.
Another option is the Fisher/Yates shuffle as shown in perlfaq 4, "How
do I shuffle an array randomly?" This has the advantage of not
requiring a temporary array.
Cheers,
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:09:19 -0400
From: Gene Senyszyn <scatt@goes.com>
Subject: Re: rand questions
Message-Id: <37DDAE4E.D0A6AB3F@goes.com>
First, I just want to thank everyone for their responses... everyone's been
very helpful.
Ala Qumsieh wrote:
> Gene Senyszyn <scatt@goes.com> writes:
>
> > Is there a way to force rand() to return only integers?
>
> No. But you can use int().
Thanks.. this is what I was looking for..
> > The variable $x gets converted to an integer, however the next random
> > number can be 4.3333, where the last one was maybe 4.2222, and they both
> > print the same lines.
> >
> > Technically, its a random number, but when I print the array item, they
> > are the same.
>
> In the case you mention above, what is the "correct" behaviour in your
> opinion? It seems to me that Perl is doing the correct thing.
There's been a few comments about this.. I guess I didn't describe this well.
..
I'm not seeing this as a bug in Perl, or my code, more of a bug in my
thinking. :)
I wanted random, and I got random. I just didn't take into consideration that
4.xxx would equate to the same thing as 4.zzz ....
Thanks,
Gene Senyszyn
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1999 21:17:09 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Reading symbolic links
Message-Id: <slrn7trc68.f00.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Ron Grunwald-Computer Programmer PGS Tensor Perth (rong@news.pgs.com)
wrote on MMCCIV September MCMXCIII in <URL:news:7ribsd$250$1@news.hstn.tensor.pgs.com>:
()
() I intend to scan through a specified filesystem using the File::Find
() module and collect all the symbolic links encountered. The question is,
() when a symbolic link is found, how can one determine which file or
() directory it is pointing to ?
readlink
Abigail
--
srand 123456;$-=rand$_--=>@[[$-,$_]=@[[$_,$-]for(reverse+1..(@[=split
//=>"IGrACVGQ\x02GJCWVhP\x02PL\x02jNMP"));print+(map{$_^q^"^}@[),"\n"
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------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1999 21:28:50 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Regular Expresions
Message-Id: <slrn7trcs4.f00.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Michael Scheferhoff (m.scheferhoff@gmx.de) wrote on MMCCIV September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:37DCD786.A2C4D693@gmx.de>:
~~ Hallo,
~~
~~ I have a problem with regular expressions. I hope that someone can help
~~ me.
~~
~~ I have:
~~
~~ <1.part> <2.part> <...> <...> <last part>
~~
~~ I need:
~~
~~ <last part>
That's a very vague question.
my ($match) = /(<last part>)/;
would do.
But perhaps
my $match = substr $_, $q = rindex ($_, "<"), 1 + rindex ($_, ">") - $q;
is what you want.
Or even:
my ($match) = /.*(<.*>)/;
Or:
{local $_ = $_; s/.*</</; s/>.*/>/; $match = $_}
Abigail
--
perl -wlpe '}{$_=$.' file # Count the number of lines.
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------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1999 21:30:55 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: running Perl files on Apache 1.3 running under Windows 95 ?
Message-Id: <slrn7trcv7.f00.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Andrew Armstrong (barm@aarmstrong.fsbusiness.co.uk) wrote on MMCCIV
September MCMXCIII in <URL:news:7rhk9f$6u1$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>:
.. Does anyone know why Ikeep getting a Forbidden message when trying to run my
.. Perl programs ? I am running Apache 1.3 under windows 95 and have Perl 5.005
.. installed. I think it may be to do with the httpd.conf file but cannot find
.. anything in there that sets restrictions on certain files.
man perldiag will explain all Perl error messages. "Forbidden message"
is not among them.
Try asking Apache tech support.
Abigail
--
perl -wlne '}for($.){print' file # Count the number of lines.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:29:37 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Searching by date problem.
Message-Id: <MPG.124744dc4ae3d514989f5b@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted and a courtesy copy mailed.]
In article <3CgD3.317$6i5.21591@typhoon01.swbell.net> on Tue, 14 Sep
1999 00:25:35 GMT, Benjamin Franz <snowhare@long-lake.nihongo.org>
says...
+ In article <MPG.1247264746c2eca7989f56@nntp.hpl.hp.com>,
+ Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
+ >
+ >Although this issue might not have occurred to Benjamin Franz, I
+ >think that suggestions to reject two-digit year input for the huge
+ >majority of programs are misguided and injure our profession.
+ >People have 'always' used two-digit years, and 'always' will
+ >continue to do so.
+
+ Welcome to the 'century bug'. Guess what happens in 2100 - one century
+ after everyone 'learns the lesson'.
... <SNIP rant>
+ And I submit you have placed the cart before the horse. It was
+ the _programmers_ only providing room for two digits that resulted
+ in permanent records being made with only two digit years.
... <SNIP rant>
+ Unambiguous - and with four digit dates.
I hate to get ad hominem, but you are either being willfully obtuse or
you are failing to read what is written in these posts. Several others
and I have tried to get you to acknowledge the difference between
external representation (user input AND output) and internal
representation. Nowhere in what I or any others have written is there a
suggestion to store two-digit years internally.
You are setting up a strawman or beating a dead horse, or whatever
cliche you prefer. What you are not doing is using your eyes to read or
your head to think.
+ >BTW, next year, which most people are calling 'two thousand', is
+ >better called 'twenty hundred' even though that is one syllable
+ >longer. I never heard anyone say the year 1900 as 'one thousand
+ >nine hundred', and I don't see why this should be different.
+
+ Because 'twenty hundred' isn't a common name for the number 2000.
My point is that it could be, if people thought about it. I will use it
and people will understand. But I don't expect the world to change.
Until 2001.
+ >Advantages:
+ >
+ > Disambiguation from a common cardinal number. Printed media still
+ >feel it necessary to refer to 'the year 2000', but this
+ >disambiguation can occur readily in speech.
+ >
+ > The succeeding year will naturally be called 'twenty oh one', etc.
+ >(same number of syllables as 'two thousand one', one fewer than 'two
+ >thousand and one') and input such as 1/1/01 ('one one oh one' or
+ >'January first, oh one') will be natural also.
+
+ Different issue. 'Spelled out' numbers live under different rules.
+ Notice that _even under those rules_ - twenty hundred isn't accepted.
+ It is 'twenty zero' or 'twenty aught' or even 'twenty double aught'.
+ And 2001 is much more likely to be called 'twenty one' in that system.
Only by total imbeciles. 'Twenty one' is 21 to me and to everyone else.
It will be 'twenty oh one' and 'oh one'. Wait and see!
+ >Even the ISO 8601 standard will accept 010101 as the short form
+ >(YYMMDD, of course). So let's not ask people to input 2001-01-01 or
+ >01/01/2001 (which is of course ambiguous per se, despite the four-
+ >digit year, as
+
+ Let's leave the American perversion of out-of-sort-order dates aside.
Though monotonic in progression left-to-right, the European perversion
of out-of-sort-order dates don't sort correctly either. How odd that
the Chinese got it right, and that their notation is now the
international standard!
+ These are all side points. The _right thing_ remains four digit years.
+ Two digit years and long term data processing are inherently
+ incompatible. If you want to argue against long term information
+ processing - fine.
+
+ But once you accept that you are going to be storing and using
+ information for or covering long periods of time it becomes apparent
+ that 2 digits is not _and cannot be made_ adequate. Sliding windows
+ and other sleight of hand can't ultimately protect you against the
+ _necessity_ to enter four digit dates in the first place. And greatly
+ increase the final costs of maintaining systems.
There you go again. Please show me one indication in my or anyone
else's submissions that we advocate two-digit dates. No matter how
bright you may be, what makes you think the rest of us are morons?
Maybe you should meet Jocelyn Amon. You seem to be functioning on the
same level of sophistication.
Good Lord!!!
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:54:01 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: syslog / linux
Message-Id: <ZUhD3.104$Wz1.8091@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>
In article <m3906a603f.fsf@anthrax.local.net>,
Benjamin Schweizer <SternSZ@gmx.de> writes:
> I´ve written a little daemon and I want to save messages (stdout) to
> the syslog daemon. Is there a function in perl or is this done by
> the os?
I am not sure what you mean by the distinction between the two above,
but perl has a module called Sys::Syslog, which will probably do what
you want. Although redirecting stdout to syslog will not work without
a bit of work.
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Interactive Media Division |
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: 13 Sep 1999 22:36:38 -0400
From: Uri Guttman <uri@sysarch.com>
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <x7btb6kymh.fsf@home.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "A" == Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> writes:
A> Uri Guttman (uri@sysarch.com) wrote on MMCCIV September MCMXCIII in
A> <URL:news:x7ogf6link.fsf@home.sysarch.com>:
A> ==
A> == sorry to disagree with you abigail,
A> Don't be silly. Don't apologize for disagreeing with me.
i was being more polite than you are used to seeing. i won't do it again.
A> How many alignment values do you see in:
A> qq{<table>@{[map{qq{<tr>
A> @{[map{qq{<td align="left">$_</td>}}@$_]}</tr>}}@table]}</table>};
that style is too dense for my eyes. no whitespace, no simple ability to
handle column/row titles. i would build it more with explicit loops and
stuff. here is some code i use to make a price table:
push( @price_rows,
Tr( th( { -align => 'CENTER' },
[ 'Buy From',
'Price',
'Discount',
'Savings',
'Kickback'
]
)
)
) ;
foreach $book_site ( @sorted_sites ) {
push( @price_rows,
"\n",
Tr( td( { -align => 'CENTER' },
[ ( a( { -href => $book_site->{'book_url'},
-target => 'store' },
$book_site->{'title'} ) ),
$book_site->{ 'sale_price' },
$book_site->{ 'percent' } . '%',
$book_site->{ 'savings' },
'Not yet'
]
)
)
) ;
}
$price_html .= table( { '-width' => '100%', -border => 1}, @price_rows ) ;
i find it easier to build up and change. to each their own. i have done
it your way too in tha past.
A> Of course, real purists would use a style sheet anyway; one of its
A> benefits being no duplication of repetitive stuff. (As both with
A> CGI.pm and the have line, the 'align = "left"' attribute would be
A> repeated in the document.)
i don't care as much about html as you do. it is not a major part of my
career. i know enough to mess around with it and do things. i don't need
to know style sheets, etc.
A> Eh? Hello? Did we just solve the halting problem? CGI.pm will determine
A> at *compile* time that the HTML you generate has the correct syntax?
A> AFAIK, there isn't any verfication build in in CGI.pm, and certainly not
A> at compile time.
i mean that center( blah blah blah ... ) will either be correct perl or
not and it will generate what i expect center to do. whereas if you make
a minor mistake with either manually written center tag, you have to
debug the html. so the syntax checking of perl helps with easier
handling of html syntax. no halting problem solved here. if i had, i
would have published it in the too small margins of OO Perl. :-)
uri
--
Uri Guttman ----------------- SYStems ARCHitecture and Software Engineering
uri@sysarch.com --------------------------- Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
Have Perl, Will Travel ----------------------------- http://www.sysarch.com
The Best Search Engine on the Net ------------- http://www.northernlight.com
"F**king Windows 98", said the general in South Park before shooting Bill.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1999 01:47:20 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: where is Perl for Win32 build 303?
Message-Id: <7rk9f8$40r@dfw-ixnews16.ix.netcom.com>
Craig Barkhouse (craig@ariel.hq.group.com) wrote:
: Could anyone tell me where I could download build 303 of Perl for Win32? I
: realize that this is quite an old version, but I need it specifically. I
: looked around ActiveState's page and a few other pages but I could only find
: the latest stuff (builds 500+). Thanks in advance!
The old builds can be found in
<URL:ftp://ftp.activestate.com/Perl-Win32/Release/>.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1999 01:08:04 GMT
From: ebohlman@netcom.com (Eric Bohlman)
Subject: Re: XML plus XSL to HTML?
Message-Id: <7rk75k$40r@dfw-ixnews16.ix.netcom.com>
Neale Morison (nmorison@ozemail.com.au) wrote:
: It's looking like Perl hasn't got there yet, and the Java (!) and Microsoft
: (gasp) tools are ahead. Perhaps the reason is that Perl is not well suited
: to this kind of parsing, because regular expressions cannot deal with
: parenthetic expressions nested to unlimited depth?
No, the reason is that XSL is still in such a state of flux that Perl
developers have been reluctant to implement anything, given that the spec
could change drastically any time. Now that the XSLT draft is in last
call stage, people are starting to talk about Perl implementations. But
for now, I'd argue in favor of using James Clark's XT, which tracks the
XSLT drafts quite tightly, as an external program to do the
transformation. Note that a "binary" is available for Win32; it requires
a JVM, but not the JDK.
Perl is perfectly capable of any kind of parsing as long as you get rid
of the "parse it all in one regex" mentality. The existence of modules
like Parse::RecDescent and Parse::YAPP demonstrates this. Perl's ability
to create and manipulate list structures makes it particularly suitable
for writing parsers.
: There's a great article on this at
: http://www.perlmonth.com/columns/perl_xml/perl_xml.html?issue=4&id=937224791
Of which I'm the author. That's actually the second installment of a
column which began in issue #3; the column in issue #4, which should be
out any day now, deals with application-level validation and tree-based
parsing.
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99)
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to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq" from
almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu. The real FAQ, as it appeared last in the
newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send perl-users FAQ" from
almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor
the FAQ are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq" from
almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 786
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