[13361] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 771 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Sep 12 14:07:16 1999
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:05:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 12 Sep 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 771
Today's topics:
Re: /etc/passwd <ubu@easynet.ca>
[Perl] How to find the Perl FAQ <rootbeer&pfaq*finding*@redcat.com>
Re: Discussion: compiled perl program as shareware <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
excuse accidental post <ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com>
Re: Find MAC address (Richard Warkentin)
Re: Find MAC address (Richard Warkentin)
GD.pm question <bfb@att.net>
Re: how is the best way to search the perl newsgroup ar <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Re: Searching subdirs with unknown names in known dirs. <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Templates <marc@infinityinternet.com>
Re: UNCRAP project proposal <ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Re: UNCRAP project proposal <ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com>
Re: UNCRAP project proposal <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Re: UNCRAP project proposal <ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Re: UNCRAP project proposal (Abigail)
Re: UNCRAP project proposal (Abigail)
Re: way to print all variables ? <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Re: Where can I find a free website hosting supportting (David Efflandt)
XHTML <ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com>
Re: Y2K bugs on the Internet (Lawrence Kirby)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:50:27 GMT
From: Ubu <ubu@easynet.ca>
Subject: Re: /etc/passwd
Message-Id: <7rgp50$4lo$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
In article <slrn7tlvb3.71l.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>,
abigail@delanet.com wrote:
>
> I won't bother. Ubu might have a point if (s)he had been around for a
> few years in this group, and if Deja.com had a couple of thousand of
> his/her postings in this newsgroup archived, but I've never heard of
> this Ubu person before. And all (s)he does is whine, not even hinting
> to the original question. Whining is easy - everyone can do that.
>
If you were really reading the thread, rather than skimming the group
looking for people to insult, you might have noticed that I posted an
answer to the original question before you weighed in (the original
poster graciously emailed me a thank you). As for the number posts of
mine you can find on Deja.com, you just can't imagine how high on my
list of priorities I place your respect and admiration. I certainly
answer questions on mailing lists and newsgroups I follow when I get a
chance (like most, I'm pretty busy), but I'll admit I can't match your
record of a few thousand odd useless flames. I bet your parents are so
proud.
> get whiney when they get picked on instead of taking the point of
>
> Exactly.
>
Are either of you actually reading the posts? Dear Abby picked on the
original poster, not me; she apparently didn't bother reading my answer,
which I'd already posted. Come on guys, if you really want to be an ass
to people, you need to pay closer attention.
Upside of this foolishness, I suppose, is that whois tells me
delanet.com is in Delaware, which at leasts suggests I won't be too
close when this nut job goes postal and grabs a gun. Thank God for small
favours, etc.
Barry
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:24:02 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer&pfaq*finding*@redcat.com>
Subject: [Perl] How to find the Perl FAQ
Message-Id: <pfaqmessage937131841.15203@news.teleport.com>
Archive-name: perl-faq/finding-perl-faq
Posting-Frequency: weekly
Last-modified: 18 Aug 1999
[ That "Last-modified:" date above refers to this document, not to the
Perl FAQ itself! The last major update of the Perl FAQ was in Summer of
1998; of course, ongoing updates are made as needed. ]
For most people, this URL should be all you need in order to find Perl's
Frequently Asked Questions (and answers).
http://www.cpan.org/doc/FAQs/
Please look over (but never overlook!) the FAQ and related docs before
posting anything to the comp.lang.perl.* family of newsgroups.
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
Beginning with Perl version 5.004, the Perl distribution itself includes
the Perl FAQ. If everything is pro-Perl-y installed on your system, the
FAQ will be stored alongside the rest of Perl's documentation, and one
of these commands (or your local equivalents) should let you read the FAQ.
perldoc perlfaq
man perlfaq
If a recent version of Perl is not properly installed on your system,
you should ask your system administrator or local expert to help. If you
find that a recent Perl distribution is lacking the FAQ or other important
documentation, be sure to complain to that distribution's author.
If you have a web connection, the first and foremost source for all things
Perl, including the FAQ, is the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN).
CPAN also includes the Perl source code, pre-compiled binaries for many
platforms, and a large collection of freely usable modules, among its
560_986_526 bytes (give or take a little) of super-cool (give or take
a little) Perl resources.
http://www.cpan.org/
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/
http://www.cpan.org/doc/FAQs/FAQ/html/
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/doc/FAQs/FAQ/html/
You may wish or need to access CPAN via anonymous FTP. (Within CPAN,
you will find the FAQ in the /doc/FAQs/FAQ directory. If none of these
selected FTP sites is especially good for you, a full list of CPAN sites
is in the SITES file within CPAN.)
California ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/perl/CPAN/
Texas ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/
South Africa ftp://ftp.is.co.za/programming/perl/CPAN/
Japan ftp://ftp.dti.ad.jp/pub/lang/CPAN/
Australia ftp://cpan.topend.com.au/pub/CPAN/
Netherlands ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/CPAN/
Switzerland ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/CPAN/
Chile ftp://ftp.ing.puc.cl/pub/unix/perl/CPAN/
If you have no connection to the Internet at all (so sad!) you may wish
to purchase one of the commercial Perl distributions on CD-Rom or other
media. Your local bookstore should be able to help you to find one.
Another possibility is to use one of the FTP-via-email services; for
more information on doing that, send mail to <mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu>
(not to me!) with these lines in the body of the message, flush left:
setdir usenet-by-group/news.announce.newusers
send Anonymous_FTP:_Frequently_Asked_Questions_(FAQ)_List
# # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # #
Comments and suggestions on the contents of this document
are always welcome. Please send them to the author at
<pfaq&finding*comments*@redcat.com>. Of course, comments on
the docs and FAQs mentioned here should go to their respective
maintainers.
Have fun with Perl!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 15:29:17 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: Discussion: compiled perl program as shareware
Message-Id: <7rggsd$2dm$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:24:10 +0200 Werner Diwischek wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> I'm developing perl programms within projects since four years, and now
> one programm is ready to be distributed as shareware in the compiled
> version. I had a lot of benefits from the perl modules for interfaces.
>
> What do you think about it?!
>
What do we think about what ? we dont know what your program does.
I certainly wouldnt be interested in no Perl program without the source
code.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 17:19:41 GMT
From: lt lindley <ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com>
Subject: excuse accidental post
Message-Id: <7rgnbd$efp$2@rguxd.viasystems.com>
My apologies. This is the second time in two weeks that I have
submitted an article that consisted entirely of quoted text. I will
modify my configuration to make it harder for me to continue making
that mistake.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:33:01 GMT
From: "rdw2 at mindspring dot com"@test.com (Richard Warkentin)
Subject: Re: Find MAC address
Message-Id: <37dbd4f1.41076364@news.mindspring.com>
On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:48:21 GMT, Dick Latshaw <latsharj@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>In article <37d5cb91.75760648@news.mindspring.com>,
> "rdw2 at mindspring dot com"@test.com (Richard Warkentin) wrote:
>> Looks good, what is nbstat?
>
>It's nbtstat. Try nbtstat /?.
>
>--
>Regards,
>Dick
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Microsoft(R) Windows NT(TM)
(C) Copyright 1985-1996 Microsoft Corp.
D:\>nbstat /?
The name specified is not recognized as an
internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
D:\>
Like I said, the program looks like it would be useful but I can't
find any file name "nbstat" on my system.
What os and what version are you using?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:38:35 GMT
From: "rdw2 at mindspring dot com"@test.com (Richard Warkentin)
Subject: Re: Find MAC address
Message-Id: <37dbd69c.41503518@news.mindspring.com>
On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:33:01 GMT, "rdw2 at mindspring dot
com"@test.com (Richard Warkentin) wrote:
Sorry, I reread your note and noticed the extrat "t". Found it on my
NT SP3 but not on my home w95 system. I'll try some w95 PC's at work
tomorrow.
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:52:27 -0400
From: Bernie <bfb@att.net>
Subject: GD.pm question
Message-Id: <37DBCC3B.31D38CCF@att.net>
I've installed the following perl and c modules, and still
receive the font error listed below. What am I missing?
-Thanks
Graph-0.005.tar.gz
libpng-1.0.3.tar.gz
GD-1.21.tar.gz
gd-1.6.3.tar.gz
freetype-1.2.tar.gz
zlib-1.1.3.tar.gz
ERROR MESSAGE:
perl: can't resolve symbol 'gdFontMediumBold'
perl: can't resolve symbol 'gdFontTiny'
perl: can't resolve symbol 'gdFontGiant'
perl: can't resolve symbol 'gdFontSmall'
perl: can't resolve symbol 'gdFontLarge'
Can't load '/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/i686-linux/auto/GD/GD.so' for
module GD: U
nable to resolve symbol at
/usr/lib/perl5/5.00503/i686-linux/DynaLoader.pm line 169.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 15:27:42 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: how is the best way to search the perl newsgroup archives?
Message-Id: <7rggpe$2dj$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:08:09 +0900 Dan and/or Shelly wrote:
> I found an ftp site that is supposed to have perl archives but nothing
> happens when I try to go to: ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/comp.lang.perl
>
> does anyone have a better site to search the perl archives? What is the MH
> pick
> command? I read it is supposed to make it easy to search all 18000 articles
> in the perl archives.
>
<http://www.deja.com> or keep a local spool like I do.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 15:26:01 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: Searching subdirs with unknown names in known dirs.
Message-Id: <7rggm9$2dc$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:21:13 -0400 Joe frey wrote:
> Hello, I'm using the find module to search for files in a known dir. By
> known I mean I know the name. Users are supposed to put their files
> here. Sometimes my users create subdirs in the known dir and place their
> files there. How do I search for the subdir name? TIA. Joe.
>
The module File:Find should be of assistance in this enterprise.
/J\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:25:27 -0400
From: "Marc" <marc@infinityinternet.com>
Subject: Templates
Message-Id: <7rggsi$rrb$1@winter.news.rcn.net>
Hi,
I'm having problems with my template subroutine I created. It doesn't parse
anything.
##########
sub template
{
my($begin_tag) = '<?';
my($end_tag) = '?>';
$fillings{var} = "test";
my $text = "testing\n<?if v3ar?>\n123\n<?endif?>\nreghtml";
$text =~ s{ $begin_tag\s*if\s*(.+)?\s*$end_tag/s*(.+)/s*
$begin\s*endif\s*$end }
exists $fillings->{$1} ?
"$2" :
"" ;
}gsi;
return $text;
}
#########
HTML:
#########
<?if var3?>
123
<?endif?>
reghtml
#########
It takes what's after the 'if' and tests to see if '%fillings' contains it.
If it has the variable, then it prints the HTML between the 'if' tags.
Otherwise it ignores it and deletes it.
Maybe it's my regex match (wouldn't suprise me since I don't use regex too
much beyond basics).
Any help is appreciated.
Thx,
Marc
PS. This sub is just being tested, so it doesn't have formal arguments, etc.
yet. Just to let you know ;)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:04:22 GMT
From: Ken MacLeod <ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <m3671gruc8.fsf@biff.bitsko.slc.ut.us>
abigail@delanet.com (Abigail) writes:
> {} Do you write HTML like this?
> {} <p>
> {} Some paragraph text
> {} </p>
> {} The closing tag is required in the XML'ified version of HTML.
>
> Then it isn't HTML. It shouldn't be called HTML. Anyone who calls that
> HTML is as stupid as someone calling Windows NT the Microsoft'ified
> version of Unix.
Have you ever validated your HTML against the HTML4 DTDs? You'll find that,
<body>
Some paragraph text<p>
Some more paragraph text.
</body>
is allowed by the HTML Transitional DTD but not by the HTML Strict
DTD. Using nsgmls, you'll also notice that it parses the above HTML
and places the second line _inside_ a paragraph element. In the HTML
Strict DTD, you must surround the paragraph text with tags:
<body>
<p>Some paragraph text</p>
<p>Some more paragraph text.</p>
</body>
I believe this is also true with HTML3 but I don't have the DTDs handy
to check with.
In any case, having balanced tags most assuredly counts as HTML.
What you might be thinking is how will XHTML handle HTML empty tags or
how do you handle the Transitional HTML case where the <p> tag
seperates content rather than contains it? That's about the only
visibile difference XHTML currently has wrt. HTML. For empty tags you
need to either use a pair of tags (<p></p>, fugly) or use XML's empty
tag notation (<p/>). Most browsers don't handle <p/> well, but
surprisingly almost all of them handle <p /> without problem.
There a large group of people who are currently delivering XHTML to
existing browsers without problem.
--
Ken MacLeod
ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 15:58:33 GMT
From: lt lindley <ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com>
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <7rgij9$ddg$1@rguxd.viasystems.com>
Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
:>lt lindley (ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com) wrote on MMCCII September
:>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:7rds8n$lgc$1@rguxd.viasystems.com>:
:>{} Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
:>{}
:>{} :>Oh gosh, I could never do the second part. I just fail to understand
:>{} :>why people prefer endless method calls over
:>{} :> print <<END_OF_HTML;
:>{} :> ...
:>{} :> END_OF_HTML
:>{} :>and just typing out what you want. CGI.pm's set of methods that output
:>{} :>html tags seems to me as useful as an English.pm module with a method
:>{} :>for every word, and using that instead of writing plain text. It's all
:>{} :>too much 'oh-golly-this-looks-like-I-am-doing-OOP' just for the sake of
:>{} :>looking like you're doing OOP.
:>{}
:>{} Although I also write HTML directly (except tables where letting
:>{} CGI.pm take care of the details crosses my usefulness threshold), I'm
:>Tables are a one-liner:
:>qq{<table>@{[map{qq{<tr>@{[map{qq{<td>$_</td>}}@$_]}</tr>}}@table]}</table>};
:>given that @tables is a lol. Just remove the other qq{} if you're working
:>in a here document.
:>{} reconsidering for the future. The XML train is gaining momentum. If
:>{} I use standard routines (object oriented or not) to generate HTML,
:>{} then my programs will (may) still work when the definition of HTML
:>{} changes and somebody updates CGI.pm.
:>HTML was created to produce long lasting documents. Noone in their right
:>mind is going to make incompatible changes to HTML. In fact, one of the
:>reason we got HTML was the problem of having document formats that have
:>incompatible changes, so that old documents couldn't be read on new
:>versions of the software creating them.
:>{} Do you write HTML like this?
:>{} <p>
:>{} Some paragraph text
:>{} </p>
:>{} The closing tag is required in the XML'ified version of HTML.
:>Then it isn't HTML. It shouldn't be called HTML. Anyone who calls that
:>HTML is as stupid as someone calling Windows NT the Microsoft'ified
:>version of Unix.
:>XML is just for wussies who are afraid of SGML. XML isn't a magic wand.
:>But it's being hyped more than Java.
:>{} I know that support for old style (current) HTML isn't going anywhere
:>{} soon and may never go away. And besides, a program you write today
:>{} won't be around in 20 years anyway. Right? So maybe this is just
:>{} a FUD thought and I should continue writing my HTML directly.
:>I don't know about my programs. But I do know it's very likely that HTML
:>will be around in 20 years.
:>Abigail
:>--
:>perl5.004 -wMMath::BigInt -e'$^V=Math::BigInt->new(qq]$^F$^W783$[$%9889$^F47]
:>.qq]$|88768$^W596577669$%$^W5$^F3364$[$^W$^F$|838747$[8889739$%$|$^F673$%$^W]
:>.qq]98$^F76777$=56]);$^U=substr($]=>$|=>5)*(q.25..($^W=@^V))=>do{print+chr$^V
:>%$^U;$^V/=$^U}while$^V!=$^W'
:> -----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
:> http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
:>------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
--
// Lee.Lindley /// Programmer shortage? What programmer shortage?
// @bigfoot.com /// Only *cheap* programmers are in short supply.
//////////////////// 50 cent beers are in short supply too.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:40:06 +0200
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch>
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <Pine.HPP.3.95a.990912183329.26263E-100000@hpplus03.cern.ch>
On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Ken MacLeod wrote:
> abigail@delanet.com (Abigail) writes:
[..]
> > {} </p>
> > {} The closing tag is required in the XML'ified version of HTML.
> >
> > Then it isn't HTML. It shouldn't be called HTML.
> Have you ever validated your HTML against the HTML4 DTDs?
Of course.
> You'll find that,
>
> <body>
> Some paragraph text<p>
> Some more paragraph text.
> </body>
>
> is allowed by the HTML Transitional DTD but not by the HTML Strict
> DTD.
Neat bodyswerve. Nothing to do with optional closing tags.
> In the HTML
> Strict DTD, you must surround the paragraph text with tags:
No. The opening tag is mandatory. The closing tag is still optional.
> I believe this is also true with HTML3
HTML3 does not exist.
> but I don't have the DTDs handy to check with.
That's why. There's an HTML3.2, and there was a proposed 3.0 which was
never completed. Like the other versions of HTML, the closing </P>
was optional in all their DTDs. What Abigail said.
> In any case, having balanced tags most assuredly counts as HTML.
That was never in dispute. Omitting </P> also counts as HTML, whereas
requiring </P> does not.
> What you might be thinking
Ahem, I think it is unwise to try to tell Abigail what she is thinking.
> There a large group of people who are currently delivering XHTML to
> existing browsers without problem.
Another neat bodyswerve, but still the original assertion remains
untouched.
Better luck next time?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:30:09 GMT
From: Ken MacLeod <ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <m33dwkrqd9.fsf@biff.bitsko.slc.ut.us>
"Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch> writes:
> but still the original assertion remains
> untouched.
My apologies, Alan.
Maybe you'd like to take a crack at explaining why requiring closing
tags in a version of HTML suddenly makes that version no longer HTML
when the HTML specifications and existing parsers both allow them and
assume that they are there if they are missing?
--
Ken MacLeod
ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 12:49:28 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <slrn7tnq2a.e8k.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Ken MacLeod (ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us) wrote on MMCCIII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:m33dwkrqd9.fsf@biff.bitsko.slc.ut.us>:
&& "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@mail.cern.ch> writes:
&&
&& > but still the original assertion remains
&& > untouched.
&&
&& My apologies, Alan.
&&
&& Maybe you'd like to take a crack at explaining why requiring closing
&& tags in a version of HTML suddenly makes that version no longer HTML
&& when the HTML specifications and existing parsers both allow them and
&& assume that they are there if they are missing?
Because that would invalidate hundreds of millions of documents out there.
You could make a language that resembles Perl, but that requires you to
always use parenthesis when calling functions. You could call it Perl,
and programs written to that specification could be run by Perl, but it
isn't Perl as it fails to run millions of valid Perl programs.
Abigail
--
sub f{sprintf$_[0],$_[1],$_[2]}print f('%c%s',74,f('%c%s',117,f('%c%s',115,f(
'%c%s',116,f('%c%s',32,f('%c%s',97,f('%c%s',0x6e,f('%c%s',111,f('%c%s',116,f(
'%c%s',104,f('%c%s',0x65,f('%c%s',114,f('%c%s',32,f('%c%s',80,f('%c%s',101,f(
'%c%s',114,f('%c%s',0x6c,f('%c%s',32,f('%c%s',0x48,f('%c%s',97,f('%c%s',99,f(
'%c%s',107,f('%c%s',101,f('%c%s',114,f('%c%s',10,)))))))))))))))))))))))))
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 13:01:12 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: UNCRAP project proposal
Message-Id: <slrn7tnqob.e8k.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Ken MacLeod (ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us) wrote on MMCCIII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:m3671gruc8.fsf@biff.bitsko.slc.ut.us>:
__ abigail@delanet.com (Abigail) writes:
__
__ > {} Do you write HTML like this?
__ > {} <p>
__ > {} Some paragraph text
__ > {} </p>
__ > {} The closing tag is required in the XML'ified version of HTML.
__ >
__ > Then it isn't HTML. It shouldn't be called HTML. Anyone who calls that
__ > HTML is as stupid as someone calling Windows NT the Microsoft'ified
__ > version of Unix.
__
__ Have you ever validated your HTML against the HTML4 DTDs? You'll find that,
Well, yes, of course. I've even written by own DTDs.
__
__ <body>
__ Some paragraph text<p>
__ Some more paragraph text.
__ </body>
__
__ is allowed by the HTML Transitional DTD but not by the HTML Strict
__ DTD. Using nsgmls, you'll also notice that it parses the above HTML
__ and places the second line _inside_ a paragraph element. In the HTML
__ Strict DTD, you must surround the paragraph text with tags:
__
__ <body>
__ <p>Some paragraph text</p>
__ <p>Some more paragraph text.</p>
__ </body>
Of course not. Did you actually *try* verifying it without the closing tags?
No? I thought so. The Strict DTD (and for that matter, the strict version of
the HTML 2 DTD) doesn't have %text as one of the elements %block expands to.
Hence, the "Some paragraph text" isn't allowed right after <body>. But this
is fine:
<body>
<p>Some paragraph text
<p>Some more paragraph text.
</body>
__ I believe this is also true with HTML3 but I don't have the DTDs handy
__ to check with.
HTML 3.0 never went past a draft stage. But its strict version didn't
require closing tags either.
__ In any case, having balanced tags most assuredly counts as HTML.
Well, of course. But *requiring* tags where they are now optional doesn't
count as HTML. It would be a different language.
__ What you might be thinking is how will XHTML handle HTML empty tags or
No, that was not was I was thinking of.
__ how do you handle the Transitional HTML case where the <p> tag
__ seperates content rather than contains it? That's about the only
__ visibile difference XHTML currently has wrt. HTML. For empty tags you
Bollocks. Any XML based HTML was tons of difference with HTML. Here are a few:
<LINK REV = "made" HREF = "mailto:abigail@delanet.com"> <!-- No /> -->
<IMG SRC = "foo" USEMAP> <!-- No shorttags -->
<P>Foo. <!-- Mandatory closing tags -->
<![ IGNORE [ Flup flup flup ]]> <!-- No marked sections -->
<SCRIPT>
CDATA declated content
</SCRIPT> <!-- No CDATA declared content -->
__ need to either use a pair of tags (<p></p>, fugly) or use XML's empty
__ tag notation (<p/>). Most browsers don't handle <p/> well, but
__ surprisingly almost all of them handle <p /> without problem.
Well, that just means browsers do a decent job of error corrections. Why on
earth would I want to write invalid HTML?
__ There a large group of people who are currently delivering XHTML to
__ existing browsers without problem.
Good for them. I guess you can make an XML based language, whose intersection
with HTML is non-empty.
That doesn't mean I should restrict myself to that. I *like* LINK.
Abigail
--
perl -MTime::JulianDay -lwe'@r=reverse(M=>(0)x99=>CM=>(0)x399=>D=>(0)x99=>CD=>(
0)x299=>C=>(0)x9=>XC=>(0)x39=>L=>(0)x9=>XL=>(0)x29=>X=>IX=>0=>0=>0=>V=>IV=>0=>0
=>I=>$r=-2449231+gm_julian_day+time);do{until($r<$#r){$_.=$r[$#r];$r-=$#r}for(;
!$r[--$#r];){}}while$r;$,="\x20";print+$_=>September=>MCMXCIII=>()'
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 15:26:55 -0000
From: Jonathan Stowe <gellyfish@gellyfish.com>
Subject: Re: way to print all variables ?
Message-Id: <7rggnv$2df$1@gellyfish.btinternet.com>
On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 06:54:58 GMT Ryan Ngi wrote:
> is there any way to print all variable of the language
>
> include
> %SIG,and special variable,%ENV...every variable
Yes.
Read about 'keys' or 'each' in the perlfunc manpage.
/j\
--
Jonathan Stowe <jns@gellyfish.com>
<http://www.gellyfish.com>
Hastings: <URL:http://dmoz.org/Regional/UK/England/East_Sussex/Hastings>
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 17:31:19 GMT
From: efflandt@xnet.com (David Efflandt)
Subject: Re: Where can I find a free website hosting supportting perl?
Message-Id: <slrn7tnor5.2s2.efflandt@efflandt.xnet.com>
On Wed, 08 Sep 1999 17:06:59 +0200, Frank de Bot <debot@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>You can find it at "yahoo", but I just give them right here ;-)
>
>http://www.hypermart.net/
>http://www.virtualave.net/
virtualave.net has been somewhat bogged down with 200,000+ sites, but is
adding equipment Sept. 15.
Another one that does not 'require' banners (but appreciates if you use
them) is http://free.prohosting.com/ However, a drive is full and the
site is choked.
So either of these should work better a few days from now.
>Ben wrote:
>
>> I need the website supports .pl file.
>> Please don't tell me that I can find it at "yahoo" and so on.
>> Thanks.
>
>--
>Penpal International
>http://www.debot.nl/ppi/
>ppi@debot.nl or debot@xs4all.nl
>
>
--
David Efflandt efflandt@xnet.com http://www.xnet.com/~efflandt/
http://www.de-srv.com/ http://cgi-help.virtualave.net/
http://thunder.prohosting.com/~cv-elgin/
------------------------------
Date: 12 Sep 1999 17:13:31 GMT
From: lt lindley <ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com>
Subject: XHTML
Message-Id: <7rgmvr$efp$1@rguxd.viasystems.com>
Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
:>lt lindley (ltl@rgsun40.viasystems.com) wrote on MMCCII September
:>MCMXCIII in <URL:news:7rds8n$lgc$1@rguxd.viasystems.com>:
:>{} Abigail <abigail@delanet.com> wrote:
:>{}
[snip]
:>{} Do you write HTML like this?
:>{} <p>
:>{} Some paragraph text
:>{} </p>
:>{} The closing tag is required in the XML'ified version of HTML.
:>Then it isn't HTML. It shouldn't be called HTML. Anyone who calls that
:>HTML is as stupid as someone calling Windows NT the Microsoft'ified
:>version of Unix.
Low blow. But taken in the spirit in which I assume it was
offered. Actually, the HTML I showed is valid. You were of
course referring to the comment that the closing tag would be
required.
Forgive my lack of precision. It is "XHTML 1.0", not XML'ified
version of HTML. I don't consider myself stupid, but I do sometimes
allow muddled thoughts to escape without subjecting them to the razor
of precise expression. For anyone who may be wondering about HTML
and XML, see
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/
:>XML is just for wussies who are afraid of SGML. XML isn't a magic wand.
:>But it's being hyped more than Java.
Us wussies like simplicity. Simplicity compared to SGML is one of
the reasons XML is gaining momentum. XML looks like a good thing
to me even though it is over-hyped.
:>{} I know that support for old style (current) HTML isn't going anywhere
:>{} soon and may never go away. And besides, a program you write today
:>{} won't be around in 20 years anyway. Right? So maybe this is just
:>{} a FUD thought and I should continue writing my HTML directly.
:>I don't know about my programs. But I do know it's very likely that HTML
:>will be around in 20 years.
I agree.
My original point was that there may really be an advantage to using
CGI.pm to generate the HTML encoding. If/when the encodings evolve,
your programs may get a free ride. I muddied that point with an
example that suggested HTML without closing tags would be broken in
the future. It was a bad example that didn't support my main point.
--
// Lee.Lindley /// Programmer shortage? What programmer shortage?
// @bigfoot.com /// Only *cheap* programmers are in short supply.
//////////////////// 50 cent beers are in short supply too.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 99 11:40:00 GMT
From: fred@genesis.demon.co.uk (Lawrence Kirby)
Subject: Re: Y2K bugs on the Internet
Message-Id: <937136400snz@genesis.demon.co.uk>
In article <saratoga-0709990455570001@ppp-206-170-2-240.sntc01.pacbell.net>
saratoga@myremarq.com "Chine Bleu" writes:
>/ Several responses indicated that the Y2K bugs found were only created by
>/ the incompetent and the inexperienced. This has prompted me to analyse
>/ the locations of the first 100 Y2K bugs listed in my research - these
>/ were listed by URL so were somewhat random.
>
>If you want to watch history repeat itself from the beginning, ask people
>about the Y2K38 problem, when the Unix clock overflows.
That won't turn out to be a big issue. Long before then systems will
have migrated time_t to a 64 bit type, or at the very least an unsigned
32 bit type. The latter won't compromise most existing date data stored as
signed long in POSIX format. Only dates prior to 1970 would be
corrupted.
--
-----------------------------------------
Lawrence Kirby | fred@genesis.demon.co.uk
Wilts, England | 70734.126@compuserve.com
-----------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99)
Message-Id: <null>
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End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 771
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