[13103] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 513 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Aug 13 20:17:14 1999
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:10:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 13 Aug 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 513
Today's topics:
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! (Martijn Faassen)
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! (Martijn Faassen)
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?! (Martijn Faassen)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:07:10 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4a51e@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:Polymorphism requires both OO training, and discipline to use, but if
:used correctly, it is very powerful.
No disagreements.
But I can't help but wonder: Is this how you keep out 99% of the
accidental programmers, the ones who use Perl? If you require OO training
and discipline, then you set the bar at the gate untenably high. Perl
remains proudly pedestrian in its roots. It doesn't require a Computer
Science degree to use. This, too, is a feature. Formal training is
optional.
--tom
--
SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision
between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:08:04 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4a554@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:$b[ 2 ] = $c;
:
:> That's just fine in Perl. It's not fine in Python, because Python
:> won't automatically grow an array.
:
:'Cause it doesn't have arrays (or, at least, not built in ones).
Gosh, that's a feature. NOT.
--tom
--
"Direct quotes don't have to be exact, or even accurate. Truth is as
irrelevant to a newspaper as it is to a court of law"
- Judge Alarcon, 9th circuit court of appeals (paraphrased)
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:11:39 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4a62b@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:> Instead, you need to remember to use
:>
:> a.append("delta")
:
:According to what you said earlier, this is better than the Perl
:way. Appending to a list is better, 'cause you can tell the
:difference between adding a new element, vs. reassignment: two
:different operations, right?
Wrong. I am merely sticking something at a particular place.
If that place doesn't exist yet, MAKE IT SO. Don't make
me check the length first.
:> if it doesn't exist yet. This complexity forces the programmer who wants
:> to assign "delta" to the third slot (there's a zeroth slot) of the list
:> (Python parlance) to do something totally different in one situation
:> than they have to do in another.
:
:Excuse, but the two cases are different. One is reassignment. The
:other is resize-list-and-add-a-new-element.
Don't be ludicrous. I don't care whether something is there before.
Are you telling me that python should have one syntax for
s = "original string"
and then a different one for
s = "a new string that replaces the old one"
Of course not.
It doesn't do that for strings.
It doesn't do that for ints.
It doesn't do that for longs.
It doesn't do that for floats.
(Don't you just love all those stupid low-level numeric types?)
It doesn't do that for dictionaries.
It shouldn't do so for lists.
And yes, perl as an "append" operation. It's called push(). This is
not the same as putting something at a *particular* place that might have
been heretofore empty. It adds to the end of whatever is there. Quite
different. And it looks different, too.
--tom
--
"And if someone breaks into my computer again? Oh, I doubt I'll bother.
The first time it's research. The second time is just engineering."
Clifford Stoll in Byte
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:12:40 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4a668@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:list.append( newElement )
:
:to Perl's closest equivalent:
:
:list[ $#list + 1 ] = $newElement
Don't be silly. That's merely
push @array, $new_element;
Although you can use the other way if you'd like.
I hope that freedom doesn't bug you too much.
--tom
--
"I want to know God's thoughts... the rest are details."
- Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:14:54 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4a6ee@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:> But the point is that Python refused to autoallocate for you.
:
:Excuse, but Python did indeed automatically allocate on:
:
:a.append( b )
:
:Will automatically allocate a space for a new element in the container
:class object 'a'.
Sometimes it autoallocates on assignment. Sometimes it doesn't.
This is obviously inconsistent. Perl, however, is perfectly consistent
here across all assignment operations, and Python isn't. It's as clear
as that.
--tom
--
Some are born to perl, some achieve perl, and some have perl
thrust upon them.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:28:58 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4aa3a@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:Compare, also:
:
:list = ( "One", 1, 1.0 )
:dict = { "Test" : list }
:
:t = list.append( dict )
That's illegal. You've used a list operation
on a tuple.
instead.
:print t[1]["test"]
:print t
Now I'm confused. The return from value from a list append
operation is None. Are you sure you mean that? Furthermore,
you have to "test" element, just a "Test" one.
I think I'm going to assume you meant this:
list = [ "One", 1, 1.0 ]
dict = { "Test" : list }
list.append(dict);
or maybe that was
t = [ list, dict ]
:to the equivalent Perl code:
:
:Uh. . .
:
:Uh. . .
:
:Darn, I can't get my example to work (my Perl book
:has been borrowed, while the Python example was done
:from memory. . . I know this requires references, but
:for the life of me, cannot remember exactly how to
:state this)! Anybody who wants to, please show an
:equivalent example.
:
:Anybody? Here's your chance to show what a Perl-DWIM-wit
:I am. . . :-)
$list = [ "One", 1, 1.0 ];
$dict = { "Test" => $list };
And then either
push @$list, $dict;
or else
$t = [ $list, $dict ];
As for your prints, Perl can use
print $t[1]{"Test"}
But that will produce a reference. Perl's print() function is not
recursive or auto-dereferencing. You'll have to use one of the pretty
printing functions for that. The debugger supports an "x"
command that uses a recursive print:
% perl -de 0
Loading DB routines from perl5db.pl version 1.0402
Emacs support available.
Enter h or `h h' for help.
main::(-e:1): 0
DB<1> $list = [ "One", 1, 1.0 ];
DB<2> $dict = { "Test" => $list };
DB<3> $t = [ $list, $dict ];
DB<4> x $t
0 ARRAY(0x8290dc4)
0 ARRAY(0x80dd558)
0 'One'
1 1
2 1
1 HASH(0x8290d34)
'Test' => ARRAY(0x80dd558)
-> REUSED_ADDRESS
DB<5> x $$t[1]{"Test"}
0 ARRAY(0x80dd558)
0 'One'
1 1
2 1
DB<6> x $t->[1]->{"Test"}
0 ARRAY(0x80dd558)
0 'One'
1 1
2 1
Notice how I cut and pasted the complete lines from my vi session
right into my interactive perl session, even with all that leading
white space? You can't do that. Cut and paste sucks in Python.
Anyway, lines 5 and 6 show you equivalent syntaxes for the same thing.
In fact, at no point did I have to use "Test". Instead of {"Test"}, I
can use {Test}, and instead of "Test" => $list, I can use Test => $list.
That's because "=>" and "{}" will under these conditions, supply quotes
for me. This makes it more readable.
The bottom line is that that is hardly any different from what
you had.
--tom
--
"Unix isn't fun anymore" --Rob Pike.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 23:28:57 GMT
From: m.faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <7p29np$ku8$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Mark McCoy <mcking@cajunbro.com> wrote:
> Tom,
> I thought I posted long messages!! :)
> I bow to your Perl guru-hood though. This set of comparisons makes me glad I
> never spent the time to do more than glance at python.
But Tom's examples were a very limited subset of what you do with a language,
right? I don't run into auto-expansion issues often, myself (I have the
idea that they'd confuse me, actually). Tom was of course right to
show those things that he thinks Perl can do better than Python, but it's
still a very limited subset. So don't let this particular set of comparisons
make you *glad* you didn't do more than glance at Python.
Perl hackers often tend to say Python is bondage and discipline, and so on,
but the funny thing is I felt liberated by the flexibility and power Python
gives without getting forever caught in design paralysis as happens to me
in C++ (which I actually like :). I can just code with Python. I tried
Perl for a short while before I ran into Python, and it just didn't really
click. Python I could code in after a few hours.
It may be that I had relatively little Unix scripting experience before I
came to Perl and Python; my experience is mostly confined to C and C++.
> I love the whole DWIM argument as well (although DWIM is not always the case
> when I am picking up some new aspect of Perl!!). That alone is reason to use
> Perl.
But DWIM is pretty subjective; I find Python does what I mean and Perl
somehow didn't for me. Of course I might not have invested enough time in
Perl, but since Python 'clicked' I don't feel the need to.
Anyway, the idea is that Python *is* a language that can be liberating
and can encourage creative expression, just like Perl can. Issues like
Python whitespace marking block structure, often brought up by Perlists
(I've even seen Larry Wall say it) are really strawman arguments; Python
allows you to be free of { and } (or put them in with comments if you
prefer), while Perl allows arbitrary whitespace -- one is not more free
than the other in this sense.
My apologies to the people who are fed up with this discussion.
Regards,
Martijn
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:31:32 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4aad4@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:> They look very different. It's obvious to the reader what's going on.
:> They can look at %h and @a and know these are different.
:
:Yes. A flaw, for OO.
BFD.
:How would one write a single function that
:duplicates [YOUR NEWSREADER IS BROKEN]
:the above Python code in Perl?
Which code? The code that allows both dict and lists to be accessed
(rvalue only, thank you very much!) with the same square brackets?
I'd either make a tied array, or else an object whose [] operator were
overloaded. And then I'd shoot myself for being such an idiot.
--tom
--
Additional parts and labor may be required at substantial
additional cost
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 23:32:54 GMT
From: m.faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <7p29v6$ku8$2@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Ben Coleman <tnguru@termnetinc.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:52:11 +0100, Ian Clarke <I.Clarke@NOSPAM.strs.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>You have replied to my post
>>as if it were an attack on Perl, which was not my intention. My
>>intention is to find out what features Perl has that Python doesn't, and
>>why I might want to use Perl when we have Python?
> Part of the blame for that may go to your choice of Subject header. It
> practically screams 'ADVOCACY TROLL', and primes the reader to expect an
> attack on Perl. Something like 'Help me evaluate Perl from a Python
> perspective' might have been better.
Definitely agreed -- stupid title. Sorry Ian. :)
Regards,
Martijn
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:30:09 -0600
From: "John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37B4AA81.DE8D6194@basho.fc.hp.com>
Sean McAfee wrote:
>
> In article <37AAFAD1.A032765B@NOSPAM.strs.co.uk>,
> Ian Clarke <I.Clarke@NOSPAM.strs.co.uk> wrote:
> >I know this sounds like flame-bait, but I am genuinely curious as to
> >what Perl might have to offer that Python doesn't.
>
> Here's one anecdotal data point:
>
> To help me learn Python, I decided to rewrite some of my Perl scripts
> in Python. The first script I chose for conversion was called "getfile";
> it grabs a file via FTP and prints it on stdout. Here it is:
>
> ======================================================================
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl
>
> use Net::FTP;
>
> @ARGV == 3 || die;
> ($host, $userID, $file) = @ARGV;
>
> system("stty -echo");
> chomp($passwd = <STDIN>);
> system("stty echo");
>
> $ftp = new Net::FTP $host;
> login $ftp $userID, $passwd;
> get $ftp $file, \*STDOUT;
> quit $ftp;
> ======================================================================
>
> I use it mainly when I want to insert a remote file into my editor (vim).
> I type ":r!getfile host login dir/file", wait a second, type my password,
> and the file appears on the screen. Very convenient.
>
> I began the conversion by looking for an FTP module for Python. It turns
> out that one comes with the standard distribution. I began reading the
> documentation for the module, and before long I couldn't believe what I was
> reading. You actually have to know the FTP protocol to use Python's FTP
> module! You need to open your own destination file and send a command to the
> remote FTP server by calling ftp.retrlines('RETR ' + filename, myfile.write).
> Ridiculous! Modules are supposed to hide such implementation details from
> the user, not force the user to deal with them. Meanwhile, Perl's FTP
> module uses essentially the same interface as the "ftp" program I've always
> used.
The Python FTP client module is designed to be a base class, not a user
class.
Consider using the Perl module for FTP operations that *DON'T* conform
to standard usage. . .
My version of VIM has Python embedded in it, so I can run Python scripts
in Vim. You, probably, would be happier compiling in Perl.
Python client:
--------------
===========================================================
#!/usr/local/bin/python
# Get FTP client module.
from ftplib import FTP
from sys import exit, argv, stdout
from string import split
# Define my FTP class.
class myFTP(FTP):
def __init__(self, host, user, password):
FTP.__init__(self, host, user, password)
def __del__(self):
self.quit()
def getFile(self, file):
try:
self.retrbinary('RETR ' + file, self.spewToStdOut)
except Exception, ex:
print ex
def spewToStdOut(self, block):
stdout.write( block )
# Get message from command line.
message = split(argv[0], '/')[-1:][0]
# Get host, login and password strings.
try:
host = argv[1]
login = argv[2]
password = argv[3]
fileName = argv[4]
except Exception, ex:
print 'Syntax Error: <command> <host> <login> <password> <file>'
print ex
exit( 1 )
# Create instance, use it.
ftp = myFTP(host, login, password)
# Convert command to message, message to method.
exec( "ftp.%s('%s')" %(message, fileName) )
del ftp
=================================================================
The difference is: it would take me six lines to add a putFile method,
while modifying your script would take longer. Note, also, that my
code does error checking. Yours doesn't.
Also, note that your code is not portable. Mine is: it runs the same
under NT as it does under Unix, though of course, you must run it
from a command line environment on NT.
> As for why I use Perl, one reason is that I often need to perform small
> data-munging tasks that can often be done in one line or less of Perl.
> For instance, I once had a C program that wrote to a log file lines of
> the form "time:number", where "time" is the usual Unix epoch time (seconds
> since 1/1/1970). Later when I wanted to scan the logs, transforming the
> Unix time into English, I did it like so:
>
> perl -pe 's/(\d+)/localtime $1/e' logfile | more
>
> Another time, I needed a sorted list of all unique alphabetic prefixes
> for all files in a certain directory.
>
> perl -e '$, = "\n"; /^([A-Z]+)/ && $a{$1}++ for </dir/*>; print sort keys %a'
>
> Even Python advocates concede that Python isn't well-suited to one-liners
> like this. Well, guess what? I use one-liners more often than I write
> larger, more permanent programs.
Obviously, if your job isn't programming, but instead one liners are
what you
do, Perl is better.
> Oh, and there's also the fact that Perl is faster than Python at darn near
> everything. That's the icing on the cake.
That would count . . . IF it were true, and IF you have MegaBytes of
data to
process. But I thought you said that you use mostly one liners?
Perl 4'ish, procedural, RE oriented code will be faster than Python OO,
RE
oriented code.
Perl 5'ish, OO code will run at about the same speed as Python.
Python procedural code will run faster than Perl 5'ish OO code.
IOW, "faster" is relative to what you do, and how you do it.
John S.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:34:09 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4ab71@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:Both lists and dictionaries auto-grow in Python. HOWEVER, Python
:differentiates between ADDING, vs, REASSIGNMENT, where Perl does
:not.
Wrong. Python cares:
% python
Python 1.5.1 (#1, Sep 3 1998, 22:51:17) [GCC 2.7.2.3] on linux-i386
Copyright 1991-1995 Stichting Mathematisch Centrum, Amsterdam
>>> d = {}
>>> d["fred"] = "wilma"
Note auto-grow.
>>> l = []
>>> l[0] = "wilma"
Traceback (innermost last):
File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
IndexError: list assignment index out of range
Note failure of auto-grow.
Yes, Python cares: it cares so much it kills you with kindness.
--tom
--
Von Neumann: "Anyone attempting to generate random numbers by
deterministic means is, of course, living in a state of sin."
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:36:19 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4abf3@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:What you fail to point out is:
:
:$n[20] = "DWIM"
:
:in Perl will give you an ARRAY whose first 20 elements are assigned
:default values.
So what?
--tom
--
The secretaries don't understand me. --Rob Pike
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:37:40 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4ac44@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:Once again: Python has lists. Not arrays.
Python's tuples are Perl's lists.
Python's lists are Perl's arrays, but brain-damaged.
So, you were planning on fixing this? It's about time.
--tom
--
"If it isn't source, it isn't software." --NASA
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:41:03 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4ad0f@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Skip Montanaro <skip@mojam.com> writes:
:Are there application areas to which Perl has been applied that give it
:an edge as far as available libraries? We know both languages have been
:fruitfully applied to web stuff, both using CGI and other programming
:interfaces. Can we build a table of application domains and point out
:what the major packages available for each language are?
Good question. I'd look at CPAN for lists of these. Of course, that
doesn't count various commerical packages and emacs add-ons I don't use.
--tom
--
X-Windows: More than enough rope.
--Jamie Zawinski
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:44:42 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <37b4adea@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"John W. Stevens" <jstevens@basho.fc.hp.com> writes:
:> To help me learn Python, I decided to rewrite some of my Perl scripts
:> in Python. The first script I chose for conversion was called "getfile";
:> it grabs a file via FTP and prints it on stdout. Here it is:
:
:The Python FTP client module is designed to be a base class, not a user
:class.
Man, that's just superclever. You really expect to stuff all this
complete OO crudolo down some poor script kiddie's throat complete
just because they want a library that's simple to use? That's nutty.
If that's all Python has, it's no wonder why they use Perl. Sheesh.
Regular humans need to program, too, not merely the duly annointed
OO indoctrinees.
--tom
--
"Don't wear rollerskates to a tug-of-war." --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: 13 Aug 1999 23:48:57 GMT
From: m.faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen)
Subject: Re: Why use Perl when we've got Python?!
Message-Id: <7p2at9$bb4$1@newshost.accu.uu.nl>
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
[snip]
> People who know Perl find it readable, fairly easy to debug, and fairly
> straightforward in most of its aspects, despite the complexity of the
> language. People who don't know Perl don't. Perl is not a language
> designed for the people who don't know it very well, whereas Python is
> much more welcoming.
To me that was definitely true; I spent quite a few hours trying to pick
up Perl, while I picked up Python instantly (mostly C/C++ background,
which some mismash of other languages thrown in).
And the "there's more than one way to do it" philosophy of Perl sounds like
*fun* to me. Perhaps not useful, to me also very confusing, and it seems
it will make code harder to maintain, but the whole idea that this should
be possible is *fun*. But sometimes people exaggarate it, saying other
languages like Python do a lot of bondage and discipline, and you can't do
the same thing in different ways. It's true that in Python there is often
more likely to be one obvious way to do something, but you can still do
many things in various different ways -- a language where this is not
true probably can't exist, but Python is more flexible than most languages.
> Perl is like the AutoCAD of programming languages. You don't pick it up
> casually in an afternoon to throw together a quick sketch of your garden.
> You invest time, blood, sweat, and tears into learning an occasionally
> arcane syntax and odd features designed to do what the experienced
> programmer wants, which you aren't yet, and which therefore often badly
> misguess your intentions, until one day you hit the knee in the curve,
> start the exponential climb, and wonder why you ever even bothered with
> another scripting language.
But what if you define "what the experienced programmer wants" as
"what the experienced _Perl_ programmer wants"? What if the mountain
you are climbing with so much trouble is not the mountain of programming
experience, but the mountain of _Perl_ programming experience? You're on
top of the mountain, and you feel you have accomplished a lot, and definitely
you are experienced in climbing now, far more than if you took the
chairlift up to the same height. But are you really closer to the sky?
Yes, in one sense. No in another.
Regards,
Martijn
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 513
*************************************
