[12984] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 394 Volume: 9
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Aug 5 23:17:30 1999
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:10:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 5 Aug 1999 Volume: 9 Number: 394
Today's topics:
Re: Please Help with regex (Abigail)
Re: Please Help with regex (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: POST via Imagemap - How? (Abigail)
Re: read, write and sysread, syswrite? (Steve Manes)
Re: read, write and sysread, syswrite? (Steve Manes)
Re: sendmail (Abigail)
Re: Signal handler to restart app (Martien Verbruggen)
Re: String (Abigail)
Re: Telnet problems (Abigail)
Re: truncation without rounding (Abigail)
Re: Unexplainable Problem (Abigail)
Use shell for 'ls *.*' & Create new file ?? <trond.p@online.no>
WHO IS THIS PERSON? please help (BIONICFLE)
Re: Why is it.... [REPOST] <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why is it.... [REPOST] <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Why is it.... [REPOST] <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 21:44:55 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Please Help with regex
Message-Id: <slrn7qkj02.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Martien Verbruggen (mgjv@comdyn.com.au) wrote on MMCLXV September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:Ej8q3.271$Qj2.10544@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>:
//
// In article <PRVL304011EEFC@prevalent.nl>,
// "Pieter Brouwer" <p.brouwer@prevalent.nl> writes:
//
// > I'm trying to strip a piece of text out of a string. The text that need to
// > be stripped from the string should start with "/*" and ends with "*/". This
// > can be nested and spanning multiple lines.
//
// Are these pieces of text maybe .... C comments????
No. C comments don't nest.
Abigail
--
perl -wle '$, = " "; print grep {(1 x $_) !~ /^(11+)\1+$/} 2 .. shift'
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 03:01:49 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: Please Help with regex
Message-Id: <xesq3.163$Qv2.8600@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>
In article <slrn7qkj02.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>,
abigail@delanet.com (Abigail) writes:
> Martien Verbruggen (mgjv@comdyn.com.au) wrote on MMCLXV September
> MCMXCIII in <URL:news:Ej8q3.271$Qj2.10544@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>:
> // Are these pieces of text maybe .... C comments????
>
>
> No. C comments don't nest.
rephrase:
Are they maybe C comments as accepted by some compilers, but not by
the C standard?
And that invalidates my answer, because the FAQ only deals with real C
comments.
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Interactive Media Division |
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | Can't say that it is, 'cause it ain't.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 21:48:02 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: POST via Imagemap - How?
Message-Id: <slrn7qkj5s.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Carl Meilahn (cmeilahn@nauiww.org) wrote on MMCLXV September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:37A99330.8E8DA1D6@nauiww.org>:
^^ I was wondering if you know a short-cut for submitting to a cgi
^^ script that uses the POST method (Solena Sol's db_manager) via an
^^ imagemap (client side) rather than using the post method in a
^^ form.
Oddly enough, someone asked the same question recently in this
newsgroup, with a slightly different subject line.
Perhaps you want to contact the poster, maybe he got an answer,
or figured it out himself. His email address is: cmeilahn@nauiww.org
HTH. HAND.
Abigail
--
perl -we 'print split /(?=(.*))/s => "Just another Perl Hacker\n";'
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 02:17:37 GMT
From: smanes@NOSPAM.HEREmagpie.com (Steve Manes)
Subject: Re: read, write and sysread, syswrite?
Message-Id: <37ac44ff.46178249@news.panix.com>
On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:10:11 GMT, <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org> wrote:
>You're almost, but not quite, correct. The difference you speak of is
>between print and syswrite, not write and syswrite.
I quoth from the Camel book:
"Perl's read function is actually implemented in terms of standard
I/O's fread(3) function..."
That means it's dragging in stdio, which means that it's NOT the same
as direct file handle system call, i.e. read(2).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 02:32:44 GMT
From: smanes@NOSPAM.HEREmagpie.com (Steve Manes)
Subject: Re: read, write and sysread, syswrite?
Message-Id: <37ad4895.47096097@news.panix.com>
On Fri, 06 Aug 1999 00:10:11 GMT, <dan@tuatha.sidhe.org> wrote:
>You're almost, but not quite, correct. The difference you speak of is
>between print and syswrite, not write and syswrite.
>
>write does formatted output.
Oops. Sorry, I just caught your objection. Yeah, the Perl 'write'
call isn't parallel with the 'read' function. As an old 'C' junkie
that was one of the things that first put me off about Perl's
symmetry.
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 20:13:20 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: sendmail
Message-Id: <slrn7qkdka.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
G. Kuhnert (jkuhnert@harbingercomm.com) wrote on MMCLXV September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:37a99bf5.0@news.kivex.com>:
##
## Basically, I have done my homework, and am
## confident that my script should work, but for some reason I think that it
## may be the server's fault.
##
## I have confirmed, and reconfirmed the paths to everything with the server
## company. They did say that they don't allow "Telnet" 'ing . Is there
## anything here that jumps out as being a problem to anyone?
Well, yes. You don't have -w, you don't have "use strict;" and you
don't check the return values of open() and close().
And you have done your homework? I don't think so.
Abigail
--
perl -MTime::JulianDay -lwe'@r=reverse(M=>(0)x99=>CM=>(0)x399=>D=>(0)x99=>CD=>(
0)x299=>C=>(0)x9=>XC=>(0)x39=>L=>(0)x9=>XL=>(0)x29=>X=>IX=>0=>0=>0=>V=>IV=>0=>0
=>I=>$r=-2449231+gm_julian_day+time);do{until($r<$#r){$_.=$r[$#r];$r-=$#r}for(;
!$r[--$#r];){}}while$r;$,="\x20";print+$_=>September=>MCMXCIII=>()'
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 01:33:38 GMT
From: mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
Subject: Re: Signal handler to restart app
Message-Id: <SXqq3.136$Qv2.6197@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>
[Please, when you reply to a message, put the (relevant part of the)
quoted message _before_ your reply]
[Please when you quote a message, make sure the line wrapping works
correctly]
[Please, fix your newsreader, complain to deja.com]
In article <7ocu83$ugv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
david_deja@my-deja.com writes:
[FIXED QUOTING]
> In article <7m4lk8$7l1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> wilda1@my-deja.com wrote:
>> I installed a signal handler in my program to catch the HUP signal
>> so that it would restart itself. The first time I send the HUP
>> signal to process it restarts itself fine. But, when I then try and
>> send a HUP signal to the restarted program it appears to ignore the
>> signal!
> I have the same problem.
Part of the problem is not reading enough documentation.
# perldoc perlipc
[snip]
You might also want to employ anonymous functions for simple
signal handlers:
$SIG{INT} = sub { die "\nOutta here!\n" };
But that will be problematic for the more complicated
handlers that need to reinstall themselves. Because Perl's
signal mechanism is currently based on the signal(3)
function from the C library, you may sometimes be so
misfortunate as to run on systems where that function is
"broken", that is, it behaves in the old unreliable SysV way
rather than the newer, more reasonable BSD and POSIX
fashion. So you'll see defensive people writing signal
handlers like this:
sub REAPER {
$waitedpid = wait;
# loathe sysV: it makes us not only reinstate
# the handler, but place it after the wait
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
}
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
# now do something that forks...
or even the more elaborate:
use POSIX ":sys_wait_h";
sub REAPER {
my $child;
while ($child = waitpid(-1,WNOHANG)) {
$Kid_Status{$child} = $?;
}
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER; # still loathe sysV
}
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
# do something that forks...
[snip]
Did either of you try any of the above? And what happened when you
did?
>> $SIG{HUP} = \&restart;
>> sub restart {
>>
>> system("./daemon.pl");
>> die;
>>
>> }
I would very likeley do that another way.
Martien
--
Martien Verbruggen |
Interactive Media Division | Never hire a poor lawyer. Never buy
Commercial Dynamics Pty. Ltd. | from a rich salesperson.
NSW, Australia |
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 21:52:21 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: String
Message-Id: <slrn7qkje0.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
Alan Lau (alau@americasm01.nt.com) wrote on MMCLXV September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:37A9B245.226E1158@americasm01.nt.com>:
??
?? Does anyone know how to extract the first character from a string?
You mean like chop(), but then from the otherside?
Here is pohc():
sub pohc (@) {
my $r;
foreach my $s (@_ ?
@_ :
$_) {
$s = reverse $s;
$r = chop $s;
$s = reverse $s;
}
$r;
}
Abigail
--
perl -e '$_ = q *4a75737420616e6f74686572205065726c204861636b65720a*;
for ($*=******;$**=******;$**=******) {$**=*******s*..*qq}
print chr 0x$& and q
qq}*excess********}'
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------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 20:16:43 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Telnet problems
Message-Id: <slrn7qkdqj.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
sine2117@my-deja.com (sine2117@my-deja.com) wrote on MMCLXV September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:7obu74$4v9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:
$$ Hello all. I have a very annoying problem, i'm behind a firewall and
$$ port 23 is closed. Actually the only port who is open i think is port
$$ 80. So i can't telnet to the server that i'm running my perl-scripts
$$ on.. Is there any web based telnet clinet somewhere that i can use ?
If you're behind a firewall, you're there for a reason. Asking how to
crack a system is considered not done in this group. In fact, answering
might even be illegal in some jurisdictions.
Please go talk to either your system administrators, or to those making
the policies.
Abigail
--
perl -we '$_ = q ;4a75737420616e6f74686572205065726c204861636b65720as;;
for (s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s;s)
{s;(..)s?;qq qprint chr 0x$1 and \161 ssq;excess;}'
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------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 21:54:20 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: truncation without rounding
Message-Id: <slrn7qkjhk.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
ericp@us.ibm.com (ericp@us.ibm.com) wrote on MMCLXV September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:7oc4ll$9q3$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:
'' I'm writing a CGI script for calculating a golfers handicap. The number
'' produced has to be truncated to the tenths without rounding. I know
'' that both printf() and sprintf() will round the last digit, so how do I
'' make it NOT round?
Blue fish.
Since your pre condition is false, what assumptions can you make about
the post condition?
Abigail
--
perl -MNet::Dict -we '(Net::Dict -> new (server => "dict.org")
-> define ("foldoc", "perl")) [0] -> print'
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------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 21:59:49 -0500
From: abigail@delanet.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Unexplainable Problem
Message-Id: <slrn7qkjs0.uij.abigail@alexandra.delanet.com>
nkaiser@my-deja.com (nkaiser@my-deja.com) wrote on MMCLXIV September
MCMXCIII in <URL:news:7oagkj$5uv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>:
&&
&& open (MAIL,"|/usr/sbin/sendmail -t");
&& close MAIL;
&&
&& At one time, I did a :
&&
&& close MAIL || print "$!" and it said "Bad File Descriptor"
That means your pipe into sendmail failed.
(/usr/sbin/sendmail, it's that a weird place?)
Why are people always piping straight into sendmail, forget to check
any return values and then asking here why it fails? If people think
they are too good to use a module, why don't they check the return
values?
Abigail
--
sub _'_{$_'_=~s/$a/$_/}map{$$_=$Z++}Y,a..z,A..X;*{($_::_=sprintf+q=%X==>"$A$Y".
"$b$r$T$u")=~s~0~O~g;map+_::_,U=>T=>L=>$Z;$_::_}=*_;sub _{print+/.*::(.*)/s}
*_'_=*{chr($b*$e)};*__=*{chr(1<<$e)};
_::_(r(e(k(c(a(H(__(l(r(e(P(__(r(e(h(t(o(n(a(__(t(us(J())))))))))))))))))))))))
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 03:33:11 +0200
From: Trond Peter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Skj=F8nsberg?= <trond.p@online.no>
Subject: Use shell for 'ls *.*' & Create new file ??
Message-Id: <37AA3B57.90898AD4@online.no>
Hi
[script included at the bottom]
Yesterday I made my first perl-script. It takes any given file (also
*.*), and modifies it to html with <html><pre>...</pre></html> and
rename to .html.
The script uses 'ls' to determine any matching files if given argument
is something like '*.*'. E.g. 'ls *.txt'.
Q: Is there any other good way 'ls' without the shell?
Q: Also, I want to create a backup file during modification of a file,
but how do I create a new file? Do I have to use the shell?
Trond Peter
-----------------------------------------
Here I added the essentials of my script:
$Arg=$ARGV[0];
..some false-arg checking..
$File = $Arg;
if ( index( $Arg, "*" ) != -1 ) {
@File_array = reverse( @File_array = `ls $Arg` );
for ( $i = $#File_array; $i != -1; $i-- ) {
$File = $File_array[$i];
$File_name_endpt = index( $File, "\n" );
$File = substr( $File, 0, $File_name_endpt );
$Exit_status = &Make_html( $File );
if ( $Exit_status.....
}
goto Exit;
} else { &Make_html( $File );}
sub Make_html {
...
...
}
Exit:
------------------------------
Date: 06 Aug 1999 02:57:45 GMT
From: bionicfle@aol.com (BIONICFLE)
Subject: WHO IS THIS PERSON? please help
Message-Id: <19990805225745.10189.00007443@ng-ff1.aol.com>
http://members.aol.com/betzyjo1/arcbhguy.jpg
reply to sender
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 20:18:49 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why is it.... [REPOST]
Message-Id: <37aa4609@cs.colorado.edu>
Let us return to the question, which in effect asked, "How come I who've
only been hacking perl for three days can manage to read docs, search
old postings, and write useful programmers without having to come here
begging, yet there are scads of people here who've obviously been doing
this longer than I have, yet these people keep asking the same stupid
questions again and again?"
My answer was that perhaps it was because the poster was smarter, more
resourceful, and more determined than they were. I then proceeded,
to express the view that programming was not something that everyone
can learn to do. In fact, I don't believe it's something most people
can learn to do, not at the level needed.
To provide an answer with supporting exposition is no "strawman",
and your denouncements to that effect are mystifying. I was simply
supporting my point that talent or skill or gifts or brains or whatever
you want to call it actualy count, and that lack of the same is one of
the root causes about which the original querent inquired.
You get people out there who can barely get the quoting right to set a
path variable in their login start-up files wanting to write programs to
do a complete parse of arbitrary English. You get people who can barely
get a semi-colon at the end of a statement want to write a multi-screen
shopping card program with authentication, tracking, and database tie-ins.
There are not programmers. Whether they will ever become programmers,
or even programmers sufficiently proficient to encode their desires,
is not always certain. Some will not -- and some really and truly cannot.
Some folks just don't have enough juice. Please recognize this. I know
people with IQs in the 70s and 80s who use computers. They even make
web pages. Guess what? They will never write a compiler, and they will
never write a shopping cart program. In fact, it's unlikely they'll
ever write a program beyond the proverbial "Hello world".
There are plenty of folks sitting here who land in the top one hundredth
of one percent -- or even far better in some cases -- of the population
in terms of brainpower. These people are gifted in a way that the next
9,999 (or 99,999 or 999,999 etc) of their fellows are not. People like
this really can do nearly any task within the realm of human mental
abilities, if they merely set their minds and wills to it. But just
because some have this gift doesn't mean everyone has it.
Some people are just plain in over their heads. Maybe they don't have
the basic intellectual firepower, like the ones above. Please don't
pretend these people don't exist. They're all around you.
There are, of course, lots of other reasons for the endless stream of
the forlorn and beggarly. Maybe instead they don't have the background.
Maybe they don't have the attitude and the dedication. Maybe they have
what it takes to do what they're thinking of and actually could do it
if they would merely pursue five years of formal training or whatever
it would take, but because they're actually brain surgeons or mothers
of five, they consequently have far more important things to do.
Maybe they hate what they have to do. Maybe their boss has tried to
convert a word-processor drone into a software design architect using
"here, secretary, write this complicated program or die!". Maybe they
don't want to really be doing this. Maybe they just want to use other
people to do their work for them.
Some of these people can be helped. Some can't.
Many have completely unrealistic expectations about their own
capabilities, the difficulties of complex programming, or the simple
requirements of doing their own basic homework. And sometimes, these
people need their bubbles burst, because in the long run, it's the
kindest thing anyone can do for them. You don't have to drive them
to suicide in so doing, but you might coax them into something they'd
be more successful at.
I could probably have further answered the original question by spending
another hundred lines of exposition on each of several additional classes
of individual, rather than focusing on only those whose basic gifts or
temperaments weren't up to the task. It would not surprise me to learn
that there were even more of these additional classes than those that
I did cover.
But that still doesn't mean that everyone is cut out to be a programmer,
which is what the central point was.
The lost post here constantly. Not all are lost for the same reason,
and of course, as Perl's fairy godfather wrote, not all those who wander
are lost. And not all those who are lost shall remain forever that way.
But I remind you that the original poster's question was about why so
many showed up here so terribly lost, when really it didn't seem all
that terribly hard a matter as far as he was concerned.
Perhaps you would care to provide *your* answer to his question.
--tom
--
"It has nothing to do with the size of Mr. Alnwick's company. We go after
companies large and small."
--Rita Black, spokesperson for IBM, "Unix Today!", 5/29/89, page 51
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 20:41:51 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why is it.... [REPOST]
Message-Id: <37aa4b6f@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
abigail@delanet.com writes:
:It's an unworkable situation. If you can't code something because you
:haven't had your flash of brilliance yet, you're plain stupid. The smarter
:person would make use of the resources available and look up how to do it.
Right. And since the people whom the original poster was asking about fall
obviously aren't making use of the resources available to look up how
to do things, they ceertainly aren't falling into the "smarter" group.
:You think programming is something special? It's just a job....
Then so, too, are brain surgeons, air-traffic controllers, and piano-bar
hacks "just jobs", right? Hm. I'm not sure I agree that "just" is called
for there, and I don't know that it's called for in programming either.
I also wonder whether you don't overestimate the abilities of those
less gifted or less experienced than yourself; say, someone with half
your measured or hypothetical IQ, or without your extensive education
in algorithmic design and analysis. I think you'll accept that their
gifts and proclivities may not lie where yours do. And believe it or
not, some of them create webpages. And they're going to have a rather
harder time of writing a distributed, high-performance, complex shopping
cart program than would you. But they still want to do it. Fear.
I just answered with a large followup posting elsewhere in this thread,
and meaning no disrespect, am frankly too tired to provide another
response that extensive tonight. Perhaps you could read that posting;
I fear I'd be repeating myself here to use the same statements to
answer yours.
--tom
--
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."
- Albert Einstein
------------------------------
Date: 5 Aug 1999 21:01:26 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Why is it.... [REPOST]
Message-Id: <37aa5006@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
:Talent is only a tiny part of the journey. Most of the journey is hard
:work and determination and the other virtues you mentioned. Does that
:mean anyone can be a programmer? No, but most people can. But many
:people need to work a lot harder at it than others. Most people cannot be
:good programmers, maybe. But most people can be programmers, given the
:right environment in the formative years.
Please read my long response to JC for clarification.
Twenty years ago or so, back when I was first starting to learn
BASIC-PLUS on RSTS/E back in high school and was working for TSR, I
immediately wanted to write programs to help in judging a D&D campaign.
I wanted character generators, combat calculators, random dungeon-design
and room-population programs, and automate nearly every aspect of the
mechanics and tedium that bogs down a judge and interferes with the
cooperative story-telling that is the game's heart and soul. I knew
that the computer was in theory capable of doing these things, and hey,
programming is programming. I'd already written a program that calculated
factorials. Couldn't I just write a computer-judging program next?
Of course not. I couldn't even begin to think about where to start.
Oh, I knew what I wanted things to do, but I simply had no experience
in anything bigger than a few dozen lines of code. I didn't know how
to create the architecture of anything like that, any more than someone
with hello world experience is going to write a multi-stage shopping cart
suite.
My eyes were bigger than my stomach, as it were. My goals were
so far beyond my skill level that it was completely unrealistic
of me to contemplate this. An older politely explained this to
me at the time, suggesting possible course of study that might
eventually lead to that skill level. I was really bummed out when
I learned that it would be years before I would ever be able to
do what I wanted to do. And when I finally was able to write those
sorts of programs, they no longer held my interest.
There's a lot of that going around. Non-self-identifying programmers,
casual programmers, accidental programmers, web/excel/word programmers
often have eyes far bigger than their stomachs. A common urge is not to
make compilers but to create commercial-grade, multiplayer, networked,
3D-graphical computer games. Being told that it will take years of hard
work to reach the necessary skill level is not going to make them happy.
It *will* take intelligence and dedication to be able to reach the
proficiency needed for some of those desires. Not all programming
is easy.
--tom
--
"Software is like sex: It's better when it's free." (Linus Torvalds, from
FSF T-shirt)
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jul 99 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 1 Jul 99)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V9 Issue 394
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