[12380] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5980 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Jun 13 19:07:47 1999
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 99 16:00:24 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 13 Jun 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 5980
Today's topics:
Re: **ANY HELP APPRECIATED******* (Bob Trieger)
ANN: Awesome tool for Perl programmers notepower@my-deja.com
Re: ANN: Awesome tool for Perl programmers <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Assign Next line in a file <eldavis@earthlink.net>
Re: Assign Next line in a file (Bob Trieger)
CGI.pm and security jselen@my-deja.com
Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL & CGI <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Re: Does Perl have a future? <webmaster@chatbase.com>
Re: Does Perl have a future? (Alan Curry)
Re: Far shorter solution! (Larry Rosler)
Re: function to retrieve number of members in list (Bob Trieger)
Re: function to retrieve number of members in list (Malcolm Ray)
HI - if anyone would like to promote there perl or cgi <mcmike123@worldnet.att.net>
Re: Is theere a script out there that can help - Off-to (Michel Dalle)
Is theere a script out there that can help <mcmike123@worldnet.att.net>
Looking for general purpose perl search tool to search <pamelag@interlog.com>
Newbie Socket Question <quicksylv@hotmail.com>
Re: Newbie Socket Question (Ronald J Kimball)
Perl & External Program <bj@tech-center.com>
Perl as 0th language? (was Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL...) <jbc@shell2.la.best.com>
Re: Perl as 0th language? (was Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL... <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: Perl as 0th language? (was Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL... <rootbeer@redcat.com>
PERL tutorial <mateev@geocities.com>
Re: PERL tutorial <jbc@shell2.la.best.com>
Re: PerlScript ... what features are missing? <ksnyde@msn.com>
Re: PerlScript ... what features are missing? <ksnyde@msn.com>
Re: PerlScript ... what features are missing? <rra@stanford.edu>
Re: problem with no text outputting from Perl CGI scrip <brutal@greenbaynet.com>
SIGCHLD problems (Michael Helm)
simple perl question 123yes@my-deja.com
Re: simple perl question <All@n.due.net>
Re: simple perl question (Ronald J Kimball)
Re: simple perl question (Bob Trieger)
Re: simple perl question (Larry Rosler)
Re: Sorting multidimensional array by date <james@britlinks.co.uk>
Re: XS: Overriding errno? (Steven N. Hirsch)
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:55:12 GMT
From: sowmaster@juicepigs.com (Bob Trieger)
Subject: Re: **ANY HELP APPRECIATED*******
Message-Id: <7k178b$4qn$1@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
[ courtesy cc sent by mail if address not munged ]
dmeyers@tisny.com wrote:
>Can anyone suggest where I can find an Engineer with Javascript/C/UNIX
>experience for a contract opportunity with a Fortune 1000 firm in San
>Francisco, Ca? Please contact dmeyers@tisny.com. Thank you!
WTF does this have to do with perl?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:58:25 GMT
From: notepower@my-deja.com
Subject: ANN: Awesome tool for Perl programmers
Message-Id: <7k0v0d$5qq$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Hello --
I have places a fully functional preview version of our software,
Notepower, which is a windows based browser/editor specifically
optimized for storing and organizing code snippets and other types of
notes...
As such it is the perfect tool for organizing Perl snippets! Try it
out today at:
http://surfnetusa.com/notepower
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 16:29:32 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: ANN: Awesome tool for Perl programmers
Message-Id: <376430cc@cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
Cursed by Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 95; AltaVista
1.00.05) to plague comp.lang.perl.misc with gratuitous fleeceware adverts,
the evil notepower@my-deja.com writes:
:I have places a fully functional preview version of our software,
:Notepower,
I see no source code. That's hardly functional.
:which is a windows based browser/editor specifically
:optimized for storing and organizing code snippets and other types of
:notes...
Pretty insulting to the developers of Perl to go assuming
that
1) We can't figure out how to do this ourselves.
2) That we have submitted to a WinBlowz lobotomy.
3) That we want fleeceware not source code.
:As such it is the perfect tool for organizing Perl snippets!
I think not. In fact, the whole design is Evil and Rude. It's
monolithic, platform-restricted, and just plain wrong. Just what I read
of it is unbelievably insulting.
--tom
--
"Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes."
- Thoreau
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:35:52 -0500
From: Ed Davis <eldavis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Assign Next line in a file
Message-Id: <37640818.126E848E@earthlink.net>
I would like to read each line in a file. When the pattern /SUBJECT/ is
matched I would like to assign the next line in the file to the variable
$subject. How do I advance to the next line? In pseudocode I would like
to do something like the following:
while ($line = <FILE> {
if ($line =~ /SUBJECT/) {
$subject = next line
}
}]
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:56:49 GMT
From: sowmaster@juicepigs.com (Bob Trieger)
Subject: Re: Assign Next line in a file
Message-Id: <7k13qv$sbt$1@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
[ courtesy cc sent by mail if address not munged ]
Ed Davis <eldavis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I would like to read each line in a file. When the pattern /SUBJECT/ is
>matched I would like to assign the next line in the file to the variable
>$subject. How do I advance to the next line? In pseudocode I would like
>to do something like the following:
>
>while ($line = <FILE> {
> if ($line =~ /SUBJECT/) {
> $subject = next line
> }
>}]
>
You can change the third line of the code you provided and it will work
so long as there is another record in <FILE>:
while (defined($line = <FILE>)) {
if ($line =~ /SUBJECT/) {
chomp($subject = <FILE>)
}
}
The above will work, but there are a few more tests which should
probably be added.
HTH
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:13:49 GMT
From: jselen@my-deja.com
Subject: CGI.pm and security
Message-Id: <7k13do$73v$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Hello,
I have read a lot about the need to pay
attention for security of CGI scripts.
For example it is adviced to delete certain
characters when decoding the data received
from the form on the web page.
I am going to use CGI.pm and I would like
to know if it is secure from this point of view.
I have looked through various docs and faqs but
so far I have no answer.
Thanks,
Alxndr
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:17:31 -0700
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Subject: Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL & CGI
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9906131204310.6999-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 dharmin98@my-deja.com wrote:
> Subject: DIFF BETWEEN PERL & CGI
Please check out this helpful information on choosing good subject
lines. It will be a big help to you in making it more likely that your
requests will be answered.
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/authors/Dean_Roehrich/subjects.post
> whats the difference between Perl & CGI
It's the difference between the car and the road. It's the difference
between the chopsticks and the sushi. It's the difference between the
price of admission and the movie.
Confusing the two would not be A Good Thing To Do.
Perl is a language, used to write all kinds of computer programs. The
Common Gateway Interface is one way of making a program (whether written
in Perl or not) work with a webserver to serve content over the web.
> Is it difficuilt to learn with no experience in programming.
Yes. You should generally start with a beginners' programming course,
perhaps available from your local community college.
> what software does it use to write the scripts.
Generally, human beings use wetware to write the scripts. :-)
Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:57:59 -0700
From: TRG Software : Tim Greer <webmaster@chatbase.com>
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a future?
Message-Id: <37641B57.1C3F5154@chatbase.com>
<SNIP>
Do you believe many things you here? When MS says their (tweaked) NT
server out performs a (non-tweaked) Linux running Apache, do you believe
that NT is better because MS says so? JavaScript is more "dead" now then
Perl will ever be.
> I am wondering if JavaBeans and
> servlets are really going to ursurp Perl/CGI on UNIX??
That will never happen, unless everyone starts losing their minds.
> Of course, Sun claims that Perl/CGI is dead and that JavaBeans is the
> future of server side web development for UNIX.
Of course they do, they're promoting their product. Do you assume Ford
is best if they say that Chevy will go out of business because of their
competition?
> Are people seeing this happen?
Nope...
> Java's slow death on the client side of the web
Good example.. now their new product?
> Where does perl stand in all of this?
Pretty much on top, in the Unix world anyway. I use ASP on occasion, as
do I use ActiveX, and yes, even Java... But usually C or Perl. But my
personal opinion (that many would probably agree with if they are in
this NG), is that there's nothing Perl has to worry about.
--
Regards,
Tim Greer: chatmaster@chatbase.com / software@linkworm.com
Chat Base: http://www.chatbase.com | 250,000+ hits daily Worldwide!
TRG Software: http://www.linkworm.com | CGI scripting in Perl/C, & more.
Unix/NT/Novell Administration, Security, Web Design, ASP, SQL, & more.
Freelance Programming & Consulting, Musician, Martial Arts, Sciences.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:08:03 GMT
From: pacman@defiant.cqc.com (Alan Curry)
Subject: Re: Does Perl have a future?
Message-Id: <T4V83.1187$gK.38140@typ22b.nn.bcandid.com>
One line from that post made my day.
"Does Perl have a future [on the WWW server]?" --Christian Ahkman
"Does the WWW server have a future?" --Bill Jones
Consider it immortalized.
--
Alan Curry |Declaration of | _../\. ./\.._ ____. ____.
pacman@cqc.com|bigotries (should| [ | | ] / _> / _>
--------------+save some time): | \__/ \__/ \___: \___:
Linux,vim,trn,GPL,zsh,qmail,^H | "Screw you guys, I'm going home" -- Cartman
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:24:54 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Far shorter solution!
Message-Id: <MPG.11cdc17e3aee8be5989bd9@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <7k0np5$3kp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:55:03
GMT, Brad Clawsie <bradclawsie@my-deja.com> says...
> Most of the typing can be avoided with the -M file test.
>
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
> opendir(DIR, ".");
> my @sorted_files = sort { -M $a <=> -M $b } readdir(DIR);
> closedir(DIR);
>
> the last line can probably be omitted too, if you're a brevity freak.
This naive solution is likely to be orders of magnitude slower than the
quasi-"Schwartzian Transform" solution posted by Jonathan Stowe that you
are comparing to. Sometimes shortest isn't best.
On the other hand, '-M file' is shorter (and more mnemonic) than '(stat
$file)[9]', but that's not all you changed to get to the line above.
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Company
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:26:51 GMT
From: sowmaster@juicepigs.com (Bob Trieger)
Subject: Re: function to retrieve number of members in list
Message-Id: <7k122o$mle$1@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
[ courtesy cc sent by mail if address not munged ]
dalehend@flash.net wrote:
>
>
>Is there a function to return the number of members in a list or
>array?
$#array will give you the last element in @array.
Since the first element is 0, you have to add 1 to this to get the
number of elements.
HTH
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 22:04:58 GMT
From: M.Ray@ulcc.ac.uk (Malcolm Ray)
Subject: Re: function to retrieve number of members in list
Message-Id: <slrn7m8aoa.oub.M.Ray@carlova.ulcc.ac.uk>
On Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:26:51 GMT, Bob Trieger <sowmaster@juicepigs.com> wrote:
>[ courtesy cc sent by mail if address not munged ]
>
>dalehend@flash.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>Is there a function to return the number of members in a list or
>>array?
>
>$#array will give you the last element in @array.
>
>Since the first element is 0, you have to add 1 to this to get the
>number of elements.
Why make it harder than it needs to be, *and* potentially wrong?
The following code, for an aray of three elements, prints:
Length using $#a + 1 is 4
Length using @a in scalar context is 3
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
$[ = 1;
my @a = qw(one two three);
my $len1 = $#a + 1;
my $len2 = @a;
print 'Length using $#a + 1 is ', $len1, "\n";
print 'Length using @a in scalar context is ', $len2, "\n";
__END__
--
Malcolm Ray University of London Computer Centre
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:46:17 -0400
From: "m" <mcmike123@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: HI - if anyone would like to promote there perl or cgi programs go for it HERE!
Message-Id: <7k11oj$he9$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
You can promote your site for free just go to my site and add your links.
im starting to get a good following so chances are I can throw some traffic
your way
submit sites to the following
http://tidalwave.virtualave.net/search/PERL/
the above page will bring you to the perl index from there just add a
resource ie... your link
also if someone could advise me on how to get the [what's new] link to work
id be greatfull
thanks
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:46:08 GMT
From: michel.dalle@usa.net (Michel Dalle)
Subject: Re: Is theere a script out there that can help - Off-topic
Message-Id: <7k158o$cm1$1@xenon.inbe.net>
In article <7k126b$nv0$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, "m" <mcmike123@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I am trying to host cgi for people that don't have the access to run them on
>there own web sites or servers anyone know of some scripts that may need
>some editing out there and or want to donate some time into getting this
>project off the ground please email me or post a reply
>mike123@worldnet.att.net
Have you looked at
http://tidalwave.virtualave.net/search/PERL/
yet ?
I hear it's a wonderful new site filled with useful stuff like this. Or it
will be, or it wants to be, or ... Anyway, the author is also called "m".
Otherwise, look for CGI wrappers elsewhere - the CGI Resource
Index maybe ?
Michel.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:53:38 -0400
From: "m" <mcmike123@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Is theere a script out there that can help
Message-Id: <7k126b$nv0$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>
I am trying to host cgi for people that don't have the access to run them on
there own web sites or servers anyone know of some scripts that may need
some editing out there and or want to donate some time into getting this
project off the ground please email me or post a reply
mike123@worldnet.att.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:59:59 -0400
From: "Pamela Goldfarb" <pamelag@interlog.com>
Subject: Looking for general purpose perl search tool to search CSV table
Message-Id: <7k164g$jj7$1@news.interlog.com>
I have a CSV file that contains a series of quoted words separted by commas.
I am using the DBD:CSV perl modules to manipulate the db.
I want to create a simple web search page that will accept a standard
phrases such as:
word1
word1 and word2
word1 or word2
"word1 word2"
etc.
Does there exist perl code to parse the user inputted search phrase and then
search a database?
If there is no such public domain code, then are there any commerical
products available?
Thanks in advance.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:18:59 -0700
From: "QuickSylv" <quicksylv@hotmail.com>
Subject: Newbie Socket Question
Message-Id: <7k10b3$kmk@dfw-ixnews11.ix.netcom.com>
I am using slightly modified versions of the client/server scripts in
chapter 6 of the book Programming Perl by Larry Wall, Tom Christiansen and
Randal L Schwartz. The code looks like this:
- BEGIN SERVER CODE -
require 5.002;
use strict;
use Socket;
use Carp;
sub logmsg
print STDOUT "$0 $$: @_\n";
}
my $port = shift || 2345;
my $proto = getprotobyname('tcp');
socket(Server, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, $proto) or die "socket: $!";
setsockopt(Server, SOL_SOCKET, SO_REUSEADDR, 1) or die "setsockopt: $!";
bind(Server, sockaddr_in($port, INADDR_ANY)) or die "bind: $!";
listen(Server, SOMAXCONN) or die "listen: $!";
logmsg "server started on port $port";
my $paddr;
$SIG{CHLD} = \&REAPER;
for( ; $paddr = accept(Client,Server); close Client) {
my($port,$iaddr) = sockaddr_in($paddr);
my $name = gethostbyaddr($iaddr,AF_INET);
logmsg "connection from $name [", inet_ntoa($iaddr), "] at port $port";
print Client "Connected to server.\n";
print STDOUT "Now processing client $name.\n\n";
print STDOUT "To send a message to the client, enter the message at the
prompt.\n";
print STDOUT "To disconnect the client, enter \"disconnect\"\n";
print STDOUT "\> ";
chomp(my $in = <STDIN>);
while ($in ne "disconnect") {
logmsg "printing \"$in\" to client";
print Client $in . "\n";
print STDOUT "\> ";
chomp($in = <STDIN>);
}
logmsg "disconnecting client";
print Client "You have been disconnected by the server.\n\n";
}
- END SERVER CODE -
- BEGIN CLIENT CODE -
require 5.002;
use strict;
use sigtrap;
use Socket;
my($remote,$port,$iaddr,$paddr,$proto,$line);
$remote = "127.0.0.1";
$port = shift || 2345;
if ($port =~ /\D/) { $port = getservbyname($port, 'tcp') }
die "No port" unless $port;
$iaddr = inet_aton($remote) or die "no host: $remote";
$paddr = sockaddr_in($port, $iaddr);
$proto = getprotobyname('tcp');
socket(SOCK, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, $proto) or die "socket: $!";
connect(SOCK, $paddr) or die "connect: $!";
while ($line = <SOCK>) {
print $line;
}
close (SOCK) or die "close: $!";
- END CLIENT CODE -
The problem I am having is with printing to the client from the server. As
you can see from the code, I have a simple interface where once the client
connects, the server can print messages to it, then disconnect it. However,
the client only displays all the messages printed to it once it has been
disconnected. I don't know much about perl (yet, i'm trying my best), or
about sockets, and I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to fix this
problem, and on the side, how to send data from the client to the server.
Thank you for your time, and any help you can give me.
Please send a copy of your reply to quicksylv@hotmail.com as I sometimes
have problems finding my message and it's replies in a large newsgroup.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:13:54 -0400
From: rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball)
Subject: Re: Newbie Socket Question
Message-Id: <1dtcnjp.1lp59ons1caxaN@p38.tc2.metro.ma.tiac.com>
[posted and mailed]
QuickSylv <quicksylv@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am using slightly modified versions of the client/server scripts in
> chapter 6 of the book Programming Perl by Larry Wall, Tom Christiansen and
> Randal L Schwartz. The code looks like this:
This code is a bit out of date these days. I would suggest looking into
the IO::Socket module, which makes using sockets much simpler.
> The problem I am having is with printing to the client from the server. As
> you can see from the code, I have a simple interface where once the client
> connects, the server can print messages to it, then disconnect it. However,
> the client only displays all the messages printed to it once it has been
> disconnected. I don't know much about perl (yet, i'm trying my best), or
> about sockets, and I was wondering if anyone can tell me how to fix this
> problem, and on the side, how to send data from the client to the server.
Try setting autoflush() for the client's filehandle in the server.
Using bare filehandles:
select((select(Client), $| = 1)[0]);
Using IO::Socket:
$Client->autoflush(1);
You send data from the client to the server in the same way you send
data from the server to the client, except in the other direction.
Not sure what your question is here.
> Please send a copy of your reply to quicksylv@hotmail.com as I sometimes
> have problems finding my message and it's replies in a large newsgroup.
DejaNews can be very helpful with this. Just search for your original
message, and then view the thread.
--
_ / ' _ / - aka -
( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J Kimball rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu
/ http://www.tiac.net/users/chipmunk/
perl -e 'for(@ARGV){require $_;print "$_\n $INC{$_}\n"}' IO/Socket.pm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:55:15 GMT
From: "BJ" <bj@tech-center.com>
Subject: Perl & External Program
Message-Id: <nFW83.10620$Yr2.159340@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>
I was wondering if anyone could tell me how to run an external .exe (ie an
application) from within Perl code. Also have the script wait for the
application to close. Please respond VIA e-mail
Thanks in advance
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 21:28:53 GMT
From: John Callender <jbc@shell2.la.best.com>
Subject: Perl as 0th language? (was Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL...)
Message-Id: <37642295$0$215@nntp1.ba.best.com>
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com> wrote:
>> Is it difficuilt to learn with no experience in programming.
> Yes. You should generally start with a beginners' programming course,
> perhaps available from your local community college.
I'm one of those accidental programmers who came to Perl primarily as a
tool for doing Web stuff. When I was in college I never took any
programming courses; I was using a PC for playing games and writing
term papers and logging on to bulletin board systems, but I didn't have
any idea I would end up using programming in my day-to-day job. I got
the impression that the computer science curriculum was very much a
track for specialists, for people who were going to be programming
professionally, full-time.
Which doesn't describe me, or a lot of other amateurs like me. The only
reason I'm programming at all is that Perl's explicit allowance of baby
talk, and the simplicity of many Web programming tasks, mean that I can
get useful things done without having that computer science background.
This gets back to that whole notion, which I've tried to express here
before, that while Perl may be a poor choice as a 1st programming
language, it is currently the *only* choice as a 0th programming
language.
I think it's a demonstrated fact that a lot of people are doing useful
things with Perl without the benefit of formal training as programmers.
(It's likewise a demonstrated fact that they make lots of mistakes, and
annoy the hell out of many professionals who believe amateurs have no
business messing around with real programming.) I just don't think it's
realistic to expect that all of those people are going to become
professional programmers in the traditional model. Nor do I think they
should be prevented from using that subset of Perl they can pick up in
their spare time to help them achieve their particular goals.
But again, I've never been in an introductory-level programming class.
Maybe such a course would offer dramatic benefits to people like me
without requiring the kind of commitment that, realistically, many of
us just can't give at this point.
I'm curious what the experts think about this.
--
John Callender
jbc@west.net
http://www.west.net/~jbc/
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 14:54:45 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl as 0th language? (was Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL...)
Message-Id: <yl1zffwyu2.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
John Callender <jbc@shell2.la.best.com> writes:
> Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com> wrote:
>> Yes. You should generally start with a beginners' programming course,
>> perhaps available from your local community college.
> I'm one of those accidental programmers who came to Perl primarily as a
> tool for doing Web stuff. When I was in college I never took any
> programming courses; I was using a PC for playing games and writing term
> papers and logging on to bulletin board systems, but I didn't have any
> idea I would end up using programming in my day-to-day job. I got the
> impression that the computer science curriculum was very much a track
> for specialists, for people who were going to be programming
> professionally, full-time.
That's frequently true at a four-year institution, although they may still
have other classes in other tracks that are more suitable. It's generally
*not* true at a community college, where they often have introductory
classes intended specifically for people who aren't going to be
programming full time. Community colleges are wonderful about this sort
of thing, and often cater specifically to people who just want to take
night courses to learn a few things that will help them with their job.
> I think it's a demonstrated fact that a lot of people are doing useful
> things with Perl without the benefit of formal training as programmers.
All a class is going to do is point you at the right documentation to
read, give you some easy-to-digest problems to work on (it's often very
hard, when you're just starting, to know what problems are easy and what
problems are hard), and give you peer review of your code. People
pointing at things you did and saying "that works, but here, this way
works as well and is a little faster." The reason to take a class is to
get some overall perspective, some experience at what problems are hard
and what makes them hard, and be exposed to various common techniques and
toolboxes for dealing with problems.
The classes don't really teach people how to program, in the sense of
putting one statement after another. Instead, they give you a broader
context you can use when deciding how to go about solving a problem.
("This is a linked list, and it's suitable for the following sorts of
problems. This is a hash, and it's suitable for these other types of
problems. If you start having this type of trouble getting things out of
an array, it means you should be using a hash instead.")
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:54:10 -0700
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com>
Subject: Re: Perl as 0th language? (was Re: DIFF BETWEEN PERL...)
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.4.02A.9906131513500.6999-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On 13 Jun 1999, John Callender wrote:
> I think it's a demonstrated fact that a lot of people are doing useful
> things with Perl without the benefit of formal training as
> programmers.
Correct. Many of them would also do useful things with a helicopter
without benefit of any formal training, if given the chance. A few would
even become safe pilots with whom I'd be glad to fly. Over _your_ house,
though. :-)
> (It's likewise a demonstrated fact that they make lots of mistakes,
> and annoy the hell out of many professionals who believe amateurs have
> no business messing around with real programming.)
I'm sure you don't mean to imply that nothing but college-bred elitism is
involved here.
I (for one) have no problem with beginners making mistakes. We all make
mistakes. But it's not for nothing that Perl is called the Swiss-Army
Chainsaw of Programming. We can give you a power tool, but we may not
enjoy looking at the results when you've cut your arm off. Or ours.
> I just don't think it's realistic to expect that all of those people
> are going to become professional programmers in the traditional model.
Who said I was being realistic? :-)
> Nor do I think they should be prevented from using that subset of Perl
> they can pick up in their spare time to help them achieve their
> particular goals.
Well, I don't think these people should be prevented from using Perl. Far
from it! Perl - proper, safe, well-written Perl - should be encouraged.
Of course, this isn't a question of Perl vs other languages. It's about
becoming a programmer without experience. And the best (but yes, not only)
way for a non-programmer to become a programmer is to take a course with a
good instructor. Beginning to hack at random on programs you don't
understand to see how they respond is way, _way_ down the list of methods,
far behind better methods such as reading a good book on programming,
reading nothing but the documentation, or taking a course with a bad
instructor.
A poorly-written program (whether in Perl or in another language) deployed
on a webserver can quickly be the ruin of that webserver. In fact, this
happens every day. It's generally less of a problem if the program is not
running over the web, but why take the chance?
Now, as the person whose answer prompted this discussion, I'd like to
quote it and my answer again. The poster asked Is it difficult to learn
with no experience? And I said Yes, it is. That's my story, and I'm
sticking to it.
Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:45:18 +0300
From: "Georgy Mateev" <mateev@geocities.com>
Subject: PERL tutorial
Message-Id: <7k11oi$fk5$1@equila.ntrl.net>
Where can i find good tutorial for PERL?
Georgy Mateev
mateev@geocities.com
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 21:37:16 GMT
From: John Callender <jbc@shell2.la.best.com>
Subject: Re: PERL tutorial
Message-Id: <3764248c$0$215@nntp1.ba.best.com>
Georgy Mateev <mateev@geocities.com> wrote:
> Where can i find good tutorial for PERL?
1) The book Learning Perl (the llama book) is the best thing out there,
currently, in terms of a book-length tutorial. It assumes prior
programming knowledge, but lots of people have learned Perl with it
without being programmers at the outset. If you're a programmer
already, it's just the ticket. Go nuts and buy Programming Perl and the
Perl Cookbok (camel and ram, respectively) while you're at it. You
won't be sorry.
2) Robert's Perl Tutorial is a really nice Web-based treatment that
focuses on using Perl under Windows:
http://www.netcat.co.uk/rob/perl/win32perltut.html
3) My own more modest example, which focuses on using Perl for CGI
scripting, is at:
http://www.lies.com/begperl/
4) Finally, everything else that's especially worthwhile can probably
be found within a few clicks of:
http://www.perl.com/
Good luck!
--
John Callender
jbc@west.net
http://www.west.net/~jbc/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:33:16 -0700
From: "Ken Snyder" <ksnyde@msn.com>
Subject: Re: PerlScript ... what features are missing?
Message-Id: <nsV83.2$hr.8730@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>
Tom,
What are you talking about? The HTML -- while it appears to have NO
error -- is totally irrelevant to the problem and is just placeholder text.
The problem is around the differences between Perl and PerlScript. The code
snippet included in this email works fine under Perl. No problem (can you
explain what you thought was a syntax error?). If you take exactly the same
snippet and just change the "print" statement to a "$Response->Write"
statement, it fails. Not on that line but rather in recognizing the
assignment statement that preceeds it.
ken snyder
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@redcat.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.02A.9906122147010.6999-100000@user2.teleport.com...
> On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Ken Snyder wrote:
>
> > Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl, comp.lang.perl.misc
>
> If your news administrator still carries comp.lang.perl, please let him
> or her know that that newsgroup has not existed since 1995. If you
> have such an outdated newsgroup listing, you are probably missing out
> on many other valid newsgroups as well. You'll be doing yourself and
> many others a favor to use only comp.lang.perl.misc (and other valid
> Perl newsgroups) instead.
>
> > When using "PerlScript" under ASP I noticed that assigning a variable
> > like this:
> >
> > $myVariable << 'END_OF_HTML';
> > <html>
> > hello world
> > </html>
> > END_OF_HTML
> > print $myVariable;
> >
> > Doesn't work.
>
> Well, of course not! Besides the syntax error and HTML error, you can't
> (simply) indent here-documents like that.
>
> > Anyone know the functional list of
> > things that don't work under PerlScript?
>
> If the release notes don't tell you, complain. Cheers!
>
> --
> Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
> Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:35:28 -0700
From: "Ken Snyder" <ksnyde@msn.com>
Subject: Re: PerlScript ... what features are missing?
Message-Id: <ruV83.3$hr.9103@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>
Marcel,
Thanks for your response but I actually did have the
"$Response->Write($myVariable)" in the ASP code, the snippet was actually
the Perl code that I ran as a sanity test to make sure the code "should"
work. It does. I needed to use the print statement only because Perl is
unaware of the Response object.
Any ideas?
ken snyder
Marcel Grunauer <marcel.grunauer@lovely.net> wrote in message
news:37681972.9503335@enews.newsguy.com...
> On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:19:09 -0700, "Ken Snyder" <ksnyde@msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> >When using "PerlScript" under ASP I noticed that assigning a variable
like
> >this:
> >
> > $myVariable << 'END_OF_HTML';
> > <html>
> > hello world
> > </html>
> > END_OF_HTML
> > print $myVariable;
> >
> >Doesn't work. It works fine under just Perl. Anyone have an idea how I
can
> >get this to work under PerlScript? Anyone know the functional list of
> >things that don't work under PerlScript?
>
> Shurely shome mishtake.
>
> $myVariable = << etc.
>
> Instead of print $MyVariable, try:
>
> $Response->Write($MyVariable);
>
> HTH
>
> Marcel
>
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 15:18:52 -0700
From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: PerlScript ... what features are missing?
Message-Id: <ylso7vvj5f.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>
Ken Snyder <ksnyde@msn.com> writes:
> The code snippet included in this email works fine under Perl. No
> problem (can you explain what you thought was a syntax error?).
What Perl are you using?
>>> $myVariable << 'END_OF_HTML';
>>> <html>
>>> hello world
>>> </html>
>>> END_OF_HTML
>>> print $myVariable;
windlord:/tmp> cat > excerpt
$myVariable << 'END_OF_HTML';
<html>
hello world
</html>
END_OF_HTML
print $myVariable;
windlord:/tmp> perl -wc excerpt
Bareword found where operator expected at excerpt line 3, near "hello"
(Missing semicolon on previous line?)
syntax error at excerpt line 4, near "hello world
"
Bareword found where operator expected at excerpt line 5, near "END_OF_HTML"
(Missing semicolon on previous line?)
excerpt had compilation errors.
There's no equal sign after $myVariable, and you can't indent the ending
tag of a heredoc.
--
#!/usr/bin/perl -- Russ Allbery, Just Another Perl Hacker
$^=q;@!>~|{>krw>yn{u<$$<[~||<Juukn{=,<S~|}<Jwx}qn{<Yn{u<Qjltn{ > 0gFzD gD,
00Fz, 0,,( 0hF 0g)F/=, 0> "L$/GEIFewe{,$/ 0C$~> "@=,m,|,(e 0.), 01,pnn,y{
rw} >;,$0=q,$,,($_=$^)=~y,$/ C-~><@=\n\r,-~$:-u/ #y,d,s,(\$.),$1,gee,print
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 17:56:42 -0500
From: "Ben Mullen" <brutal@greenbaynet.com>
Subject: Re: problem with no text outputting from Perl CGI script (long, enclosure)
Message-Id: <7k1d15$117c$1@news.inc.net>
I put in 'use diagnostic', 'use strict', and the -w -T options and got the
following response:
[brutal@greenbaynet public_html]# perl -w -T carshow.cgi
Global symbol "$cgistring" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi
line 9
(#1)
(F) You've said "use strict vars", which indicates that all variables
must either be lexically scoped (using "my"), or explicitly qualified to
say which package the global variable is in (using "::").
Global symbol "$index" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line 10
(#1)
Global symbol "$cartype" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
11 (#1)
Global symbol "$workdir" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
12 (#1)
Global symbol "$htmlfile" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
13(#1)
Variable "$html" is not imported at carshow.cgi line 14 (#2)
(F) While "use strict" in effect, you referred to a global variable
that you apparently thought was imported from another module, because
something else of the same name (usually a subroutine) is exported
by that module. It usually means you put the wrong funny character
on the front of your variable.
(Did you mean &html instead?) (#3)
(W) You probably referred to an imported subroutine &FOO as $FOO or some
such.
Global symbol "$html" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line 14
(#1)
Global symbol "$info" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line 15
(#1)
Global symbol "$description" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi
line 16 (#1)
Global symbol "$mileage" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
17 (#1)
Global symbol "$price" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line 18
(#1)
Global symbol "$damage" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
19 (#1)
Global symbol "$defile" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
27 (#1)
Unquoted string "filehandle" may clash with future reserved word at
carshow.cgi
line 28 (#4)
(W) You used a bareword that might someday be claimed as a reserved
word.
It's best to put such a word in quotes, or capitalize it somehow, or
insert
an underbar into it. You might also declare it as a subroutine.
Global symbol "@descstuff" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi
line 29 (#1)
Bareword "cars" not allowed while "strict subs" in use at carshow.cgi line
36 (#5)
(F) With "strict subs" in use, a bareword is only allowed as a
subroutine identifier, in curly braces or to the left of the "=>"
symbol.
Perhaps you need to predeclare a subroutine?
Unquoted string "cars" may clash with future reserved word at carshow.cgi
line 36 (#4)
Global symbol "$buffer" requires explicit package name at carshow.cgi line
39 (#1)
Execution of carshow.cgi aborted due to compilation errors (#6)
(F) The final summary message when a Perl compilation fails.
Uncaught exception from user code:
Execution of carshow.cgi aborted due to compilation errors.
I'm going to work on it a bit now, but I thought I should post my diagnostic
response in the mean time
------------------------------
Date: 13 Jun 1999 19:32:32 GMT
From: mike@baldur.lbl.gov (Michael Helm)
Subject: SIGCHLD problems
Message-Id: <7k110g$8p1@overload.lbl.gov>
Someone's installing a SIGCHLD handler and not resetting
things to normal after they are done. (That's my theory.)
I've been using some assorted modules in a project, & I suspect
that some of the database modules may be responsible, but
not sure yet.
How can I debug this problem? How can I trace the changes to the
perl data structures that manage signal handling, and/or any other
changes to it that mite take place outside the interpereter itself?
Any ideas or recommendations appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:59:13 GMT
From: 123yes@my-deja.com
Subject: simple perl question
Message-Id: <7k0v1t$5r4$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
Hi all,
I am learning perl, can anyone teach me how can I write the following
in perl?
I wan to write if hour is between 0 and 12 then doing something, like :
if ($Hour > 0 < 12 ) {
print "$morning";
}
elsif ($Hour > 12 < 18 ) {
print "$afternoon";
}
elsif ($Hour > 12 < 24 ) {
print "$evening";
but the server said i got some errors, can anyone point me to the right
direction? please email me.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:06:35 GMT
From: "Allan M. Due" <All@n.due.net>
Subject: Re: simple perl question
Message-Id: <LXV83.1373$y92.546@news.rdc1.ct.home.com>
<123yes@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7k0v1t$5r4$1@nnrp1.deja.com...
: Hi all,
'Lo you.
: I am learning perl, can anyone teach me how can I write the following
: in perl?
: I wan to write if hour is between 0 and 12 then doing something, like :
Hmm, 0 to 12 but your script deals with 0 to 24?
: if ($Hour > 0 < 12 ) {
Well that is just not going to work. How about something like
if ($Hour > 0 and $Hour < 12) {
: print "$morning";
: }
: elsif ($Hour > 12 < 18 ) {
: print "$afternoon";
: }
: elsif ($Hour > 12 < 24 ) {
: print "$evening";
Um, what happens when the hour is 12? Your code doesn't seem to deal with
it.
: but the server said i got some errors, can anyone point me to the right
: direction?
North is always good. Or maybe RTFM is a better pointer.
:please email me.
Ack, email request. Well ok, but only because I missed it before. The rule
o'thumb here is :post here - read here.
Just for fun (and bound to get me in trouble):
my $time_o_day = ($Hour>0 and $Hour <= 24)?$Hour<
12?$morning:$Hour<18?$afternoon:$evening:'Does anyone know what time it
is?';
print "$time_o_day\n";
HTH
AmD
[copy cc'd to author of post]
--
$email{'Allan M. Due'} = ' All@n.Due.net ';
--Random Quote--
You have to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because
you might not get there.
Yogi Berra
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:13:55 -0400
From: rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball)
Subject: Re: simple perl question
Message-Id: <1dtcnu7.1kbghavlr4p1cN@p38.tc2.metro.ma.tiac.com>
[posted and mailed]
<123yes@my-deja.com> wrote:
> I wan to write if hour is between 0 and 12 then doing something, like :
>
> if ($Hour > 0 < 12 ) {
> print "$morning";
> }
> elsif ($Hour > 12 < 18 ) {
> print "$afternoon";
> }
> elsif ($Hour > 12 < 24 ) {
> print "$evening";
>
> but the server said i got some errors, can anyone point me to the right
> direction? please email me.
if ($Hour >= 0 and $Hour < 12) {
print $morning;
} elsif ($Hour >= 12 and $Hour < 18) {
print $afternoon;
} elsif ($Hour >= 18 and $Hour < 24) {
print $evening;
}
I also fixed your boundary conditions.
--
_ / ' _ / - aka -
( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J Kimball rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu
/ http://www.tiac.net/users/chipmunk/
"It's funny 'cause it's true ... and vice versa."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:59:57 GMT
From: sowmaster@juicepigs.com (Bob Trieger)
Subject: Re: simple perl question
Message-Id: <7k1b28$a97$1@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
[ courtesy cc sent by mail if address not munged ]
rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball) wrote:
>[posted and mailed]
>
><123yes@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> I wan to write if hour is between 0 and 12 then doing something, like :
>>
>> if ($Hour > 0 < 12 ) {
>> print "$morning";
>> }
>> elsif ($Hour > 12 < 18 ) {
>> print "$afternoon";
>> }
>> elsif ($Hour > 12 < 24 ) {
>> print "$evening";
>>
>> but the server said i got some errors, can anyone point me to the right
>> direction? please email me.
>
>if ($Hour >= 0 and $Hour < 12) {
> print $morning;
>} elsif ($Hour >= 12 and $Hour < 18) {
> print $afternoon;
>} elsif ($Hour >= 18 and $Hour < 24) {
> print $evening;
>}
I am just curious why you bothered with the greater than or equal to 0
and the less than or equal to 24.
Why not just: (assuming $Hour contains a number between 0 and 24)
if ($Hour < 12) {
print $morning;
} elsif ($Hour >= 12 and $Hour < 18) {
print $afternoon;
} else {
print $evening;
}
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:54:36 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: simple perl question
Message-Id: <MPG.11cdc86f8d0430a8989bda@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted and a courtesy copy sent.]
In article <7k0v1t$5r4$1@nnrp1.deja.com> on Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:59:13
GMT, 123yes@my-deja.com <123yes@my-deja.com> says...
...
> I wan to write if hour is between 0 and 12 then doing something, like :
>
> if ($Hour > 0 < 12 ) {
> print "$morning";
> }
> elsif ($Hour > 12 < 18 ) {
> print "$afternoon";
> }
> elsif ($Hour > 12 < 24 ) {
> print "$evening";
>
> but the server said i got some errors, can anyone point me to the right
> direction? please email me.
Sure, why not?
Like most similar procedural languages, Perl has binary comparisons (one
datum against another), not ternary (one datum against two others). So
this has to be done in two steps each:
if (0 < $Hour && $Hour < 12 ) {
print "$morning";
}
elsif (12 < $Hour && $Hour < 18 ) {
print "$afternoon";
}
elsif (12 < $Hour && $Hour < 24 ) {
print "$evening";
}
Question: What does this code do if $Hour is exactly 0 or 12?
Question: Why are two tests needed in the second or third lines?
Question: Why is the third comparison line not like the other two?
Ponder these and you will come up with a better way of expressing the
solution.
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Company
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:53:17 +0100
From: James Stewart <james@britlinks.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Sorting multidimensional array by date
Message-Id: <ant132017313Lh==@ch0128.charis.co.uk>
In article <3763eb00@cs.colorado.edu>, Tom Christiansen
<URL:mailto:tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
> [courtesy cc of this posting mailed to cited author]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc, James Stewart <james@britlinks.co.uk> writes:
> :I have an array where $array[X][0] contains a date in the format
> :DD/MM/YYYY and I'd like to sort the array into date order, so that each
> :"line" stays together.
>
> my @recs = ();
> foreach $element (@array) {
> my($day, $month, $year) = split m:/:, $element->[0];
> push @recs, {
> DAY => $day,
> MONTH => $month,
> YEAR => $year,
> };
> }
>
> @old_indices = 0 .. $#recs;
> @new_indices = sort {
> $recs[$a]{YEAR} <=> $recs[$b]{YEAR}
> ||
> $recs[$a]{MONTH} <=> $recs[$b]{MONTH}
> ||
> $recs[$a]{DAY} <=> $recs[$b]{DAY}
> ||
> $a <=> $b
> } @old_indices;
>
> @sorted_array = @array[@new_indices];
thanks. this worked very well.
James.
--
James Stewart - james@britlinks.co.uk | "Telecom ignored us and
The Britlinks - http://www.britlinks.co.uk | democracy has died."
Phantom Tollbooth - http://www.tollbooth.org | -- Fat And Frantic
Sixpence None The Richer in the UK - http://www.britlinks.co.uk/sixpence/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:43:23 GMT
From: shirsch@adelphia.net (Steven N. Hirsch)
Subject: Re: XS: Overriding errno?
Message-Id: <slrn7m7hhi.39s.shirsch@pii.fast.net>
In article <7jgv13$ac1$1@brokaw.wa.com>, Elf Sternberg wrote:
>
> I tried both and ended up going with a third option. *Grin*
>I did, however, end up using the SvNOK_on() hack. That is *so* cool!
For those of us who've missed the start of this thread, what is the
"SvNOK_on" hack?
Steve
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
comp.lang.perl.moderated. Answer: nothing.
]From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
]
]It is possible to subscribe to comp.lang.perl.moderated as a mailing list.
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]body. Majordomo will then send you instructions on how to confirm your
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are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 5980
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