[12249] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5849 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jun 1 13:07:29 1999
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 99 10:00:29 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 1 Jun 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 5849
Today's topics:
Re: $^O and all types? (M.J.T. Guy)
answering my own question <gbartels@xli.com>
Re: answering my own question (I R A Aggie)
Re: Anyone know what is this script line meaning ?? (Larry Rosler)
Re: Anyone know what is this script line meaning ?? (David Cantrell)
Can PERL attach a file to a FORM that will get Emailed? <jim.ray@west.boeing.com>
Check out this www metasearch script <llafrance@sprint.ca>
Re: How to use svrmgrl commands in Perl CGI (John D Groenveld)
Re: Is 'Global symbol "%s" requires...' Fatal? (M.J.T. Guy)
Re: m// in list context - can't tell if match succeeded (Andrew Johnson)
Re: Making Perl Wait (Greg Bacon)
Off-topic, even more than the rest of this thread (Larry Rosler)
Re: pattern matching (M.J.T. Guy)
Perl & Ldap & Hash <malere@cas.et.tudelft.nl>
Re: Perl Newbee <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: Perl Newbee <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Re: Perl Newbee (I R A Aggie)
Re: perldoc -f alarm (M.J.T. Guy)
Re: Problem with Sorting Hash <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Recreational Perl Programming this Summer <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What's wrong with this hit counter? (Greg Bacon)
Re: Y2K infected Perl code (David Cantrell)
Re: Y2K infected Perl code (David Cantrell)
Re: Y2K infected Perl code (Chris Nandor)
Re: Y2K infected Perl code (I R A Aggie)
Re: Y2K infected Perl code (David Cantrell)
Re: You can earn $50,000 40686 <MenThal@bigfoot.com>
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:15:47 GMT
From: mjtg@cus.cam.ac.uk (M.J.T. Guy)
Subject: Re: $^O and all types?
Message-Id: <7j10vj$3v2$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Dan Sugalski <sugalskd@netserve.ous.edu> wrote:
>
>The Config module is your friend here. perldoc Config and be enlightened.
If only. But the entries in Config tend to relate to underlying
C library functions rather than perl functions. So for flock(),
you have to look at d_flock, d_lockf and d_fcntl. Hardly obvious.
A better approach may be to try the operation experimentally inside an
eval{} and check $@:
eval { flock STDOUT, 0 };
if ($@ =~ /not implemented/) {
... do something else ...
};
Though there was another thread here a little while back reporting that
this technique doesn't always work.
Mike Guy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:30:41 -0400
From: Greg Bartels <gbartels@xli.com>
Subject: answering my own question
Message-Id: <3753EE91.AF4ADF31@xli.com>
Last week I asked if anyone knew of a
good website that presented a well thought
argument for open source.
I recieved one answer, which pointed to
the "Cathedral and the Bazaar" document.
it is an extremely good text as far as
explaining how open source works and
how open source projects such as linux
has evolved into a singular, well oiled
machine, rather than an unstable,
multi-forked, mess.
What I was looking for though, was more
along the lines of the legal status of
open source.
As it happend, I was at the bookstore
this weekend, browsing for a copy of
"The Mythical Man-Month" when I happened
across an O'Reilly book with the title
"Open Sources", with a big sticker
saying it was a "New Release".
The book is a compilation of "essays", if
you want to call them that, from the people
who have made open source what it is today.
Each person got their own section in the book.
so you get Linus Torvalds view on things,
Larry Wall's ideas, Richard Stallmans opinion
on whats what. Other contributers include
the president of Red Hat, the president
of Cygnus, and a vice president at Netscape,
all of which are for-profit companies who
are using open source in their business
plan. (I probably screwed up their titles,
and I definitly forgotten their names)
Some contributers focused on computing
history, some on particular events in the
recent past, and some on the legal issues
of open source specifically. anyone remotely
connected with open source should probably
read this book.
the answer to my question was in this book.
(the answer, roughly, going from memory..)
public domain - no copyright, can be copyrighted
thereby taking what was once public domain
out of the public domain. **not good**
gnu-pl : viral licence, derived works must
be gnu-pl'ed. free software -> free speech.
l-gnu-pl : library version of GPL. same as
GPL, except libraries are excepted from
viral traits of GPL.
open source definition : not a copyright itseld,
but a definition that copyrights must
meet to fit the open source defintion.
netscape licence : complex copyright to fit many
specifics of making netscape open source
if it isn't a book for everyone on this list,
it is at the very least a book anyone should
read before evangilizing for or against
open source.
Greg Bartels
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:29:28 GMT
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: answering my own question
Message-Id: <slrn7l82pb.c03.fl_aggie@thepentagon.com>
On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 10:30:41 -0400, Greg Bartels <gbartels@xli.com>, in
<3753EE91.AF4ADF31@xli.com> wrote:
+ public domain - no copyright, can be copyrighted
+ thereby taking what was once public domain
+ out of the public domain. **not good**
Ummm...no. Once public domain, always public domain. To be certain, I
can take a PD source, make modifications and make my own release policy,
as my additions *are* mine. But I can't go around to FTP sites and other
archives and demand they remove the original PD code, as that is NOT
mine.
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:52:44 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: Anyone know what is this script line meaning ??
Message-Id: <MPG.11bda19232a06576989b48@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[Posted and a courtesy copy mailed.]
In article <375389BE.64B95D13@edoc.co.za> on Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:20:31
+0200, Nico van der Dussen <info@edoc.co.za> says...
> I could figure out hte basics of this staement from the manual, but the { $_
> !~ m/^\./} still beats me.
>
> I figure it means something such as if $_ does not match a '.' at the start
> of the string.
That is exacctly what it means. There is really no mystery here. Look
at it this way:
$_ !~ m/^\./ # negative match
! ( $_ =~ m/^\./ ) # negation of a positive match
! ( m/^\./ ) # $_ is the default operand for a match
! ( /^\./ ) # 'm' is the default operator for a match
!/^\./ # parentheses and spaces are superfluous
That is the idiomatic way of expressing it in Perl. Others have pointed
out that maybe you don't want to weed out *every* directory entry whose
name begins with '.', just the two pseudo-directories '.' and '..'. So:
!/^\.\.?$/
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Company
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:05:39 GMT
From: NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
Subject: Re: Anyone know what is this script line meaning ??
Message-Id: <3756043c.18106305@news.insnet.net>
On 1 Jun 1999 09:41:52 GMT, sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
said:
>On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:20:31 +0200, Nico van der Dussen <info@edoc.co.za> wrote:
>
>>I figure it means something such as if $_ does not match a '.' at the start
>>of the string. But then the manual warns that using $_ will create chaos if
>>you do not know what you are doing. I will appreciate it if somebody
>>knowledgeable will explain why it can be used in this instance, and when it
>>should not be used.
>
>Where in the manual does it give such a warning?
perldoc -f grep
But the warning is only about MODIFYING $_. The above code does not.
[Copying newsgroup posts to me by mail is considered rude]
--
David Cantrell, part-time Unix/perl/SQL/java techie
full-time chef/musician/homebrewer
http://www.ThePentagon.com/NukeEmUp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:17:32 GMT
From: "news.boeing.com" <jim.ray@west.boeing.com>
Subject: Can PERL attach a file to a FORM that will get Emailed?
Message-Id: <FCnJow.8M0@news.boeing.com>
I need to create a FORM that will be emailed to me. I also need to have the
user attach a file to the form. Can this be down with PERL? If so where
can I purchase or download the file?
Thank you very much!
--
Jim Ray
Delta Program NT Administrator
The Boeing Company
714-896-2038
jim.ray@west.boeing.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:05:26 -0500
From: "Luke LaFrance" <llafrance@sprint.ca>
Subject: Check out this www metasearch script
Message-Id: <ngU43.33018$r_1.18574296@newscontent-02.sprint.ca>
Hello,
check out this web metasearch script at the following url.
http://vivekvp.hypermart.net/
It searches web search engines and returns only the data to your own
web site. The results page shows only your web site graphics.
It is similar to other metasearch engines like metafind or dogpile etc. ,
except that it is not yet setup to search
a large number of search engines yet. Anyone with decent perl/cgi skills
could modify it to search more engines.
After you try it, email me at vivekvp@yahoo.com if you are interested
in it.
Victor
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 12:14:25 -0400
From: groenvel@cse.psu.edu (John D Groenveld)
Subject: Re: How to use svrmgrl commands in Perl CGI
Message-Id: <7j10t1$hts$1@tholian.cse.psu.edu>
Also, instead of forking an extra process and having to parse its output,
the DBI/DBD::Oracle modules might be helpful.
http://www.cpan.org/
John
groenveld@acm.org
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:39:31 GMT
From: mjtg@cus.cam.ac.uk (M.J.T. Guy)
Subject: Re: Is 'Global symbol "%s" requires...' Fatal?
Message-Id: <7j12c3$5pf$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
>Would you prefer to see only one syntax error per compilation?
No, I wouldn't. When will this be fixed for regexes? :-)
Mike Guy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:31:20 GMT
From: andrew-johnson@home.com (Andrew Johnson)
Subject: Re: m// in list context - can't tell if match succeeded or failed
Message-Id: <c1T43.37395$tE.278242@news2.rdc1.on.home.com>
In article <slrn7l75c4.teq.joey@kite.kitenet.net>,
Joey Hess <joey@kite.kitenet.net> wrote:
! According to the man page:
!
! If used in a context that requires a list value, a pattern match
! returns a list consisting of the subexpressions matched by the
! parentheses in the pattern, i.e., ($1, $2, $3...). (Note that here $1
! etc. are also set, and that this differs from Perl 4's behavior.) If
! the match fails, a null array is returned. If the match succeeds, but
! there were no parentheses, a list value of (1) is returned.
!
! This seems badly designed to me. There's no way to differentiate between a
! successful match with one set of parens that didn't trap anything, and a
! failed match with no parens. For example:
!
! #!/usr/bin/perl
! $_="w";
!
! @matches=/^w(ho)?$/;
! print "$#matches (@matches)\n";
! print "That really matched.\n" if /^w(ho)?$/;
!
! @matches=/^who$/;
! print "$#matches (@matches)\n";
! print "That didn't.\n" unless /^who$/;
!
! This outputs:
!
! 0 ()
! That really matched.
! 0 ()
! That didn't.
!
! I'm reduced to using a scaler m// first to make sure I have a match and then
! repeating the same m// in list context to get the array I need.
!
! Am I missing something, or is this just not designed well?
seems to be a problem with earlier perl's (5.003 and 5.004),
with 5.005_03 I get:
Use of uninitialized value at - line 5.
0 ()
That really matched.
-1 ()
That didn't.
in the second case the array is empty, in the first it contains
one undefined value.
regards
andrew
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:32:16 GMT
From: gbacon@itsc.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: Making Perl Wait
Message-Id: <7j11ug$2ep$3@info2.uah.edu>
In article <therzog-0106990214050001@therzog-host105.dsl.visi.com>,
therzog@knotech.com (Tim Herzog) writes:
: which of course is plenty for anyone with a Unix or programming
: background, but to anyone else sounds like:
If someone doesn't have a programming background, what is he doing using
a programming language?
Greg
--
When Primitive man screamed and beat sticks on the ground we called him a
Barbarian. When Modern man does the same we call him a golfer.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 09:48:54 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Off-topic, even more than the rest of this thread
Message-Id: <MPG.11bdaed1c412655b989b49@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <3756ac4a.5624537@news.insnet.net> on Tue, 01 Jun 1999
09:48:09 GMT, David Cantrell <NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com> says...
> On 30 May 1999 00:16:54 -0000, Jonathan Stowe
> <gellyfish@gellyfish.com> said:
>
> >taurocoproloquy
>
> LOL! Really!
Not really, unless you prefer Greek/Latin bastardizations over 'pure'
neologisms.
taurocoprology
bull (Greek or Latin)
excrement (Greek)
discourse (Greek)
--
(Just Another Larry) Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Company
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:35:22 GMT
From: mjtg@cus.cam.ac.uk (M.J.T. Guy)
Subject: Re: pattern matching
Message-Id: <7j124a$5bg$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Frank Hale <frankhale@yahoo.com> wrote:
>How can I match newlines in patterns?
>
>for example:
>
>if ($token =~ /template{(\d\D)}/) {
> print $token."\n";
>}
>
>The pattern I am matching can have newlines in it but I can't seem to
>match newlines in the pattern. How do you match newlines in patterns?
I don't understand what you want to do - the regex you quote seems a
very odd one. Did you mean to use a character class [\d\D],
rather than capturing brackets (\d\D) ?
To match a newline, just include \n in your pattern.
To match an arbitrary character which may be a newline, use . and
add the /s modifier. See perldoc perlre.
Mike Guy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:07:28 +0200
From: "L.E. Pinheiro Malere" <malere@cas.et.tudelft.nl>
Subject: Perl & Ldap & Hash
Message-Id: <37540540.CB28F4FC@cas.et.tudelft.nl>
Hello,
I'm writing a little perl cgi to see the results of a ldapsearch shell
command
in a nice http page.
The ldapsearch command searches my Ldap database and give me a result on
the SDTOUT, like this :
maestro/>ldapsearch -h dutedin.et.tudelft.nl -b 'o=TUDelft,c=NL'
'cn=Luiz*'
cn=Luiz Ernesto Pinheiro Malere,ou=DIMES,o=TUDelft,c=NL
ou=DIMES
cn=Luiz Ernesto Pinheiro Malere
sn=Pinheiro Malere
mail=malere@yahoo.com
labeleduri=http://www.bestway.com.br/~malere
objectclass=person
My perl script looks like this :
foreach $_ (`ldapsearch -h dutedin.et.tudelft.nl -b 'o=TUDelft,c=NL'
'cn=$cn'`) {
# Let's format the output data first !
$sufix = $_;
$prefix = $_;
$prefix =~ s/=.*//; #Ex : mail=malere@yahoo.com becomes mail
$sufix =~ s/.*=//; #Ex : mail=malere@yahoo.com becomes malere@yahoo.com
# Store this information in a hash
$attrib{$prefix} = $sufix;
}
print $attrib{"mail"} #This doesn't work !
I cannot access the values stored in the hash, no way ! And there is a
key with value "mail" on the hash !
Do you please have any idea about it ?
Thank you very much !
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:54:40 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: Perl Newbee
Message-Id: <4nT43.1442$nn.441705@news.shore.net>
Ronald J Kimball <rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
: 2) What does it take for formmail.pl to run on an Internet server?
: Let me clarify. Does the server that the formmail.pl resides on
: HAVE to be running UNIX? Can it be running NT? [etc.]
I'm pretty sure that "plain vanilla" formmail requires sendmail, so it
wouldn't work on a standard NT setup. Is there a sendmail for NT yet? (I
know about blat.)
--Art
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.agitators.com/calendar/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:29:29 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: Perl Newbee
Message-Id: <37540A69.F283D45B@mail.cor.epa.gov>
Scratchie wrote:
>
> Ronald J Kimball <rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> : 2) What does it take for formmail.pl to run on an Internet server?
> : Let me clarify. Does the server that the formmail.pl resides on
> : HAVE to be running UNIX? Can it be running NT? [etc.]
>
> I'm pretty sure that "plain vanilla" formmail requires sendmail, so it
> wouldn't work on a standard NT setup. Is there a sendmail for NT yet? (I
> know about blat.)
>From the ActivePerl FAQ:
:
: Microsoft has a port of sendmail available on their FTP site at :
ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/developr/drg/unix-to-windows/ports/sendmail/
:
: A commercial sendmail product is available from MetaInfo, Inc. An : evaluation
version is available at http://www.metainfo.com/
:
Of course, that *is* a M$ port of sendmail, so don't tell TomC
if you use it. :-)
HTH,
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:35:14 GMT
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Perl Newbee
Message-Id: <slrn7l8344.c03.fl_aggie@thepentagon.com>
On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:54:40 GMT, Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>, in
<4nT43.1442$nn.441705@news.shore.net> wrote:
+ I'm pretty sure that "plain vanilla" formmail requires sendmail, so it
+ wouldn't work on a standard NT setup. Is there a sendmail for NT yet?
Yes, but it is pay-ware. $1300/unlimited # of boxes
James - got to be better than exchange...
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:00:04 GMT
From: mjtg@cus.cam.ac.uk (M.J.T. Guy)
Subject: Re: perldoc -f alarm
Message-Id: <7j1024$2hd$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk>
Howard Jow <ppith@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>If I run it with bomb.pl (another Perl program that loops infinitely),
>it will end after about ten seconds and print "we died...". If I run
>it with "ls" it will print "we made it...". However, when the program
>is done running, bomb.pl is still running as a system process under
>my name. Now, here's a not so elegant solution I thought of:
>(surely there must be a better solution? I'm not calling you Shirley)
>
>1. ps -A (all unix boxes are different, I'm used to aux, anyways) and
>grep out (filter out, parse out, etc) bomb.pl
>
>2. Use perl reg exps to find the PID
>3. Use a system("kill -i $pid"); to take care of it.
You might as well use the perl kill() function.
And a better way to get the pid is by simulating the system() yourself
with a fork/exec/wait sequence. Still not pretty, but a great
deal better than using ps.
Mike Guy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:23:09 -0700
From: David Cassell <cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov>
To: Ryan Ngi <ryanngi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Problem with Sorting Hash
Message-Id: <375408ED.49ABFFF9@mail.cor.epa.gov>
[courtesy cc to poster]
Ryan Ngi wrote:
>
> if execute
>
> %HASH=( 'dang'=>5,'dum'=>3,'kaw'=>7);
>
> print %HASH;
>
> it print
>
> dang5kaw7dum3
As it should.
> but why not print "dang5dum3kaw7"??
>
> how does hash arrange itself when it assign???
A hash doesn't maintain the order *you* want. It does a
hash and re-arranges the data into an order which allows
it to find keys quickly.
> i'm suspect this for along time....
Then you'll probably want to go to the perldata section
in the HTML pages of your ActiveState install, and read
more about hashes. Also, perlfaq4 has a series of helpful
FAQuestions about hashes, some of which may help with any
other questions you might have.
HTH,
David
--
David Cassell, OAO cassell@mail.cor.epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 09:17:38 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Recreational Perl Programming this Summer
Message-Id: <3753f992@cs.colorado.edu>
Now that Summer has unofficially begun, I'd like to again put out
a call for contributions toward the completion of the Perl Power
Tools project for recreating all the classic Unix tools in Perl.
Here are targetted utilities from Section 1 of the Unix Programmer's Manual
that still remain undone (some have been started though), and could
really use work:
col date dd diction ed explain find fmt ftp hostname lex locate lock
m4 machine more nroff rc sed sh spell stty talk telnet ul whatis yacc
Whereas these utilities are what we've already got done (although some
could be improved):
addbib apropos apply asa ar arch awk basename bc cal cat chmod chgrp
chown clear cmp colrm comm cp cut dc deroff diff dirname dos2unix
du echo egrep env expand expr false fgrep file fold from grep glob
head id join kill ln look ls mail make makewhatis man mimedecode
mkdir mkfifo mv od par paste patch ping pr printenv printf pwd rev
rm rmdir shar sleep sort split strings sum tac tail tar tee test
time touch tr true tsort tty uname unexpand uniq units unix2dos
unpar unshar uuencode uudecode wc what which whois xargs yes
More in the spirit of recreational programming, here are the games from
Section 6 of the Unix Programmers Manual that are done:
arithmetic banner ching factor fish fortune hangman maze moo morse pig
pom ppt primes random wump
Whereas these games are yet undone:
adventure atc backgammon battlestar bcd bj boggle bs caesar canfield
cfscores checkers chess cribbage gomoku grdc hack hunt huntd larn mille
monop number phantasia quiz rain reversi robots rogue sail snake snscore
tetris trek ttt words worm worms
Besides coders, there are two other tasks that need attention: bundling
into an idiot-installable tarball for distribution, and testing on
more diverse platforms. Contributions welcome.
Further information is available at
http://language.perl.com/ppt/
--tom
--
"I find this a nice feature but it is not according to the documentation.
Or is it a BUG?" "Let's call it an accidental feature. :-)" --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:30:37 GMT
From: gbacon@itsc.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: What's wrong with this hit counter?
Message-Id: <7j11rd$2ep$2@info2.uah.edu>
In article <3753C475.EA3A96E6@sergeant.org>,
Matt Sergeant <matt-news@sergeant.org> writes:
: In the argument I mailed directly back to Randall, I stated that a dumb
: counter is useless, however modern counters like fxweb's provide much
: more detail.
This would seem to suggest that "modern counters" are something other
than useless. I deny this claim.
: The result of RELOAD RELOAD RELOAD etc is the same on your
: web server's log as it is to a hit counter.
Wrong. Most counters say something like "There have been X visitors
to this site". Do I magically become two people by visiting the
same website more than once in some period?
: So - do you also advocate
: not doing any log analysis? I don't think so - I've seen articles by
: both Randall and Lincoln Stein about log analysis, so I'm not sure of
: why they are so against people without access logs doing log analysis
: (albeit in a limited way).
Straw man. Log files record hits. Visitor counters purport to count
visitors, but they cannot.
: FXWeb's counter provides info about repeat
: visits (via persistent cookies),
Hmm.. I disable cookies in my browser. What about browsers that don't
support cookies? What about a Unix machine from which several people
will visit a particular site?
: browser breakdown, OS breakdown and
: country of origin.
This still doesn't count unique visitors.
: So meaningless only applies to meaningless counters. More meaningfull
: counters do exist and should be used if you don't have access to a
: server log.
Access to the server logs still won't let one count unique visitors,
so they're still meaningless. Hit counters are meaningless because
they can be artificially inflated.
Greg
--
Arrogance is bliss.
-- Elizabeth L. Kaminsky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:49:14 GMT
From: NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
Subject: Re: Y2K infected Perl code
Message-Id: <3753ffd3.16977983@news.insnet.net>
On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 14:19:07 GMT, docdwarf@clark.net () said:
>In article <3757b388.7478603@news.insnet.net>,
>David Cantrell <NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com> wrote:
>>On Fri, 28 May 1999 18:41:46 GMT, docdwarf@clark.net () said:
>>
>>>Please be so kind, then, as to address the situation posed and not my
>>>responses to it... what happens if a person writing code is not a 'retard'
>>>but the specs demand the adherance to certain standards?
>>
>>If standards say "thou shalt write buggy code" then anyone who is
>>still working to those standards is a "retard". If they knew better
>>they would either have got the standards changed or gone elsewhere.
>>It's not as if there is an unemployment problem for perl programmers.
>
>It is not as though my statement was restricted to perl programmers,
>either... if you wish to think that this particular subset of the
>code-slinging trade is the Alpha and Omega of work-environments then
>perhaps you might learn to post within a newsgroup limited to such coders.
>Before there was perl there were... other languages, these have left their
>imprints in a small supply of what is quaintly referred to as 'legacy
>code'.
Your statement would be relevant if this message was posted elsewhere.
Unfortunately for you, it is posted only to comp.lang.perl.misc and to
comp.software.year-2000. The intersection of those two groups could
only be Y2K issues connected with perl. Not issues connected with
COBOL, or Java, or Pascal. Therefore I think I was quite correct to
assume we were only talking about perl coders.
Or are you suggesting that your post to which I replied was off-topic?
If it was, why did you bother posting it in the first place?
[Copying newsgroup posts to me by mail is considered rude]
--
David Cantrell, part-time Unix/perl/SQL/java techie
full-time chef/musician/homebrewer
http://www.ThePentagon.com/NukeEmUp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:02:58 GMT
From: NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
Subject: Re: Y2K infected Perl code
Message-Id: <37550111.17295850@news.insnet.net>
On 1 Jun 1999 10:04:43 GMT, M.Ray@ulcc.ac.uk (Malcolm Ray) said:
>I'm more interested in understanding the learning process which
>gives rise to poor CGI code, and whether there's anything we can do
>to help impart extra clues early in the process. For example: what
>proportion of beginning CGI programmers start by copying and modifying
>existing code? How many of these do so because they've tried and
>failed to find online tutorial documentation pitched at their level?
I have always found that the best way to learn a brand new skill
(whether it be programming, ironing shirts, or rock-climbing) is to
learn by example _and_ practice with a friendly expert on hand. I'm
still working on the ironing ;-)
For those who have never programmed, the perl docs are inadequate; for
programmers seeking to learn a second language they are, in
combination with hard work and dedication, admirable.
Whether perl is a suitable language for programming newbies is another
matter entirely, but telling them to piss off and learn something else
will achieve nothing.
>If such a learner found that the first script they studied contained a
>comment pointing to good introductory documentation, plus a suggestion
>that they copy this comment into any code that they produce, could
>this become a meme which would raise the standard?
<CHUCKLE>
[Please don't CC newsgroup replies to my email address]
--
Dave, who's just spent half an hour explaining the difference between
'su -c shutdown -r now' and 'su -c "shutdown -r now"' and was
amazed that the 'pupil' couldn't understand how important the
quotes were. Anyone know a good 'Shell for Dummies' book?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:24:48 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Y2K infected Perl code
Message-Id: <pudge-0106991224490001@192.168.0.77>
In article <3753ffd3.16977983@news.insnet.net>, NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com
(David Cantrell) wrote:
# [Copying newsgroup posts to me by mail is considered rude]
Nonsense. It is not rude. Many people consider it courteous, and there
isn't any good way to let people know that YOU find it rude unless you use
a header to let people and their newsreaders know.
Mail-Copies-To: nobody
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 1 Jun 1999 16:46:56 GMT
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Y2K infected Perl code
Message-Id: <slrn7l83q2.c03.fl_aggie@thepentagon.com>
On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:02:58 GMT, David Cantrell <NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com>, in
<37550111.17295850@news.insnet.net> wrote:
+ For those who have never programmed, the perl docs are inadequate;
The docset is aimed at a particular audience, and they ain't it.
+ Whether perl is a suitable language for programming newbies is another
"programming newbies"??? That's a good idea! We can program them to ask
FAQs in the python newsgroup... :) :) :)
+ matter entirely, but telling them to piss off and learn something else
+ will achieve nothing.
Programming is mostly about design, not coding. Most of my problems
come about when I code something before I've given adequate thought
to what it is that I want to accomplish...
James
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:56:00 GMT
From: NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
Subject: Re: Y2K infected Perl code
Message-Id: <37540ca0.20254634@news.insnet.net>
The message quoted below was also CCed to me by mail. Sigh ...
On Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:24:48 GMT, pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) said:
>In article <3753ffd3.16977983@news.insnet.net>, NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com
>(David Cantrell) wrote:
>
># [Copying newsgroup posts to me by mail is considered rude]
>
>Nonsense. It is not rude. Many people consider it courteous, and ...
Doing so to ME is considered rude by the person receiving it - ME.
You will note that I limit that statement to posts emailed to ME, and
do not attempt to apply it to newsgroup posts in general. It is of no
consequence whether other people like to receive CCs or not.
If you choose to reply to any of my posts, I'll see your words of
wisdom in the newsgroup. Sending me a second copy is utterly
fruitless. Not to mention discourteous.
> ... there
>isn't any good way to let people know that YOU find it rude unless you use
>a header to let people and their newsreaders know.
> Mail-Copies-To: nobody
I did let you know. I did such a good job of letting you know that
you actually made a point of noticing. So I guess that there _is_ a
good way of notifying you without using a header. I am not aware of
any way of inserting that header into all my messages using my current
newsreader but if someone cares to enlighten me how, I'll do it. And
no, I'm not even going to consider changing newsreaders.
I've been appending that to my messages in comp.lang.perl.misc for a
long time. If you object so strongly I'm surprised it's taken you
this long to respond. And it goes without saying that making a point
of CCing me against my expressed wishes is EXCEEDINGLY rude.
This is off-topic for both newsgroups. FUs set.
[Copying newsgroup posts to me by mail is considered rude]
--
David Cantrell, part-time Unix/perl/SQL/java techie
full-time chef/musician/homebrewer
http://www.ThePentagon.com/NukeEmUp
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 17:09:40 +0200
From: "Kent Dahl" <MenThal@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: You can earn $50,000 40686
Message-Id: <7j0suq$26o$1@kopp.stud.ntnu.no>
Jochem Huhmann skrev i meldingen <7j0s5m$hi8$2@nova.revier.com>...
>(I don't recommend mail bombing, it does more harm to others than to
>it's target)
I wasn't suggesting bombing as such (repeated large e-mails), but a single
one from me, a single one from you... makes one big whale on their account,
and doesn't block the line I'm on too much.
Students in Norway protested against... uh, what was it again? Can't
remember... Anyway, we didn't "bomb" the government representatives, but
someone make a script that would send a generic letter, with the name you
wrote, to a dousin representatives. Small thing, but a lot of students did
it...
I do not call this bombing, but the communications company just dropped the
whole bunch of e-mails. Sort of the postal service burning postcards if the
sack gets too heavy. *grrr*
Democracy my butt-cheeks!
--
// =========================================================
/** @author Kent Dahl - stud.techn.; ind.xk. data, 1. er
* @url http://www.bigfoot.com/~MenThal/
* { Suicide in the cyberpunk era;
* run a Microsoft product
* on your cyberspace deck. } */
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
comp.lang.perl.moderated. Answer: nothing.
]From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
]
]It is possible to subscribe to comp.lang.perl.moderated as a mailing list.
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 5849
**************************************
